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I would say this source [1] is too biased to be used as an RS in this article. Definitely on the extreme side. Any objections to its removal? -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 02:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the claim from the Times of Israel that, "Benjamin Kerstein writes in The Times of Israel, that Baskin's claims are in all likelihood not true, mainly because Israel would not involve someone like Baskin in important peace talks," this is completely unfounded. In his book, Lehakir et Ha-Hamas (Getting to Know Hamas), Israeli journalist Shlomi Eldar describes the entire chain of communications between Olmert and Baskin, claiming that it went through Olmert's daughter Dana, a peace activist. It was later uncovered by Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin and stopped, but Baskin still has the messages on his cell phone (Chapter 8 of the book). Furthermore, Chapter 12 cites a letter to Baskin from Benjamin Netanyahu, which still hangs in Baskin's office. It reads: "Let me thank you again for rising to the occasion and assisting the team negotiating the release of Gilad Shalit. Very few people are aware of all your work or of the role you played in advancing the final deal. I’d like to thank you personally and on behalf of the Government of Israel for all the time and effort you devoted to this important cause. I wish you continued success in all your endeavors." Eldar goes on to explain that the original initiative was stopped by Olmert, but that Baskin was asked again later by Ofer Dekel (Diskin's replacement as Head of the Shin Bet) to reestablish contact with Jaabari. For the record, Shlomi Eldar is a well respected Israeli journalist, who covers Gaza for Channel 10 News. His book was a major bestseller in Israel and has been translated into English (though not yet published--I know, because I was the translator). The journalist from Times of Israel is no one who actually knows the characters (Eldar met Jaabari on two occasions), and his writing is completely biased. It should be removed. Danny ( talk) 16:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Anybody with even the slightest knowledge of Arabic names will tell you Jabari is incorrect. The actual name should be Jaabari or Ja'bari taking into account the letter " Ayin" in his name (in Arabic الجعبري). Another descrepacy is the way its presently written puts the stress wrongly on second syllable (ba) as in Je-BAAA-ri, whereas the correct stress is on the first sylable (ja') as JAA'-ba-ri. This specific article actually started with Ahmed al-Ja'abari which was stretching it too far though... Reuters no less gets it right: Jaabari killing is first of many Gaza strikes: Israel official The Daily Telegraph gets it right calling him Jaabari Ahmed Jaabari profile: the Hamas leader known as 'the general'. So does 'Voice of America Israeli Air Strike Kills Ahmed al-Jaabari. Although there are also sources who admttedly use Jabari. This clearly needs checking -- See also how we treated other individuals with the exact same family name Sulaiman Ja'abari and Muhammad Ali Ja'abari werldwayd ( talk) 03:45, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Right now the article states: "It is widely believed[by whom?] that Jaabari played the leading role in Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip from the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in June 2007" I'd like to remove "it is widely believed" since this doesn't seem to be a point of dispute. The cited NYTimes article says: "Mr. Jabari led Hamas forces when they took control of Gaza in 2007, ousting the rival Palestinian faction Fatah..." and the cited AFP article on Al-Arabiya's website says: "He is also credited with playing a leading role in the Islamist movement's forcible takeover of Gaza in summer 2007, which saw its militants expelling Fatah forces after a week of bloody fighting." I don't see a need for us to make a wishy-washy statement for something that credible media sources treat as fact. GabrielF ( talk) 19:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is his son's death mentioned in the lead and not the death section? In order to be mentioned in the lead it should be added to the body. Ryan Vesey 19:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
As it was placed in the lead it gave the assumption his son was in the vehicle with him when he was targeted and killed. So far no evidence has been provided his son was among killed let alone in the vehicle with him. Duhon ( talk) 16:03, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
The source included in the article [2] specifically says Baskin "helped mediate between Israel and Hamas". Nishidani, who apparently thinks he knows what the RS meant and his opinion on that is stronger than what they actually said, changed it to the ridiculous "helped mediate via Hamas with Jabari". This is not what the source says. It's complete OR. I fixed it and then Lihaas changed it back.
Could someone kindly explain why we should use an interpretation by an editor over the exact 6 words the RS used? No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 02:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
A bit about an Egyptian draft truce proposal was put in the lead. This information comes from one interview with Gershon Baskin. It should not be stated as fact. Also, I don't think it belongs in the lead, so I removed it. Thoughts? No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 02:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Could we get further verification for the statement that Jabari directed several attacks (including suicide bombings) against Israel resulting in the deaths of hundreds of civilians? The info comes from the Telegraph but I haven't seen that information in other sources, including Israeli and Palestinian ones. There's no dispute he was the effective head of Hamas's armed wing, but that doesn't mean he necessarily directed the attacks himself. Either we get further verification or we attribute the info to the source i.e. "according to ...". -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 03:58, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I believe that the correct term for such elaborated actions performed by States resulting in the death of a person is "Execution". A "kill" is more like to a manslaughter, somthing akin to a side-effect. This case was definetely not like that. Sperxios ( talk) 22:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi. What is the rationale of using the term "militant" instead of "freedom fighter"? I mean this is a hot issue. Shouldnt a more neutral term be used? Although i agree militant does not have too much of a negative connotation but isnt it still negative? would "fighter" be a better term instead of "militant"? Thanx for anyone's thoughts. Sohebbasharat ( talk) 22:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
69.159.70.54 ( talk) 06:02, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
thats whom you dedicate the website page?????
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Ahmed Jabari. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Ahmed Jabari at the Reference desk. |
A news item involving Ahmed Jabari was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 November 2012. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on November 14, 2020. |
I would say this source [1] is too biased to be used as an RS in this article. Definitely on the extreme side. Any objections to its removal? -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 02:14, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Regarding the claim from the Times of Israel that, "Benjamin Kerstein writes in The Times of Israel, that Baskin's claims are in all likelihood not true, mainly because Israel would not involve someone like Baskin in important peace talks," this is completely unfounded. In his book, Lehakir et Ha-Hamas (Getting to Know Hamas), Israeli journalist Shlomi Eldar describes the entire chain of communications between Olmert and Baskin, claiming that it went through Olmert's daughter Dana, a peace activist. It was later uncovered by Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin and stopped, but Baskin still has the messages on his cell phone (Chapter 8 of the book). Furthermore, Chapter 12 cites a letter to Baskin from Benjamin Netanyahu, which still hangs in Baskin's office. It reads: "Let me thank you again for rising to the occasion and assisting the team negotiating the release of Gilad Shalit. Very few people are aware of all your work or of the role you played in advancing the final deal. I’d like to thank you personally and on behalf of the Government of Israel for all the time and effort you devoted to this important cause. I wish you continued success in all your endeavors." Eldar goes on to explain that the original initiative was stopped by Olmert, but that Baskin was asked again later by Ofer Dekel (Diskin's replacement as Head of the Shin Bet) to reestablish contact with Jaabari. For the record, Shlomi Eldar is a well respected Israeli journalist, who covers Gaza for Channel 10 News. His book was a major bestseller in Israel and has been translated into English (though not yet published--I know, because I was the translator). The journalist from Times of Israel is no one who actually knows the characters (Eldar met Jaabari on two occasions), and his writing is completely biased. It should be removed. Danny ( talk) 16:33, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Anybody with even the slightest knowledge of Arabic names will tell you Jabari is incorrect. The actual name should be Jaabari or Ja'bari taking into account the letter " Ayin" in his name (in Arabic الجعبري). Another descrepacy is the way its presently written puts the stress wrongly on second syllable (ba) as in Je-BAAA-ri, whereas the correct stress is on the first sylable (ja') as JAA'-ba-ri. This specific article actually started with Ahmed al-Ja'abari which was stretching it too far though... Reuters no less gets it right: Jaabari killing is first of many Gaza strikes: Israel official The Daily Telegraph gets it right calling him Jaabari Ahmed Jaabari profile: the Hamas leader known as 'the general'. So does 'Voice of America Israeli Air Strike Kills Ahmed al-Jaabari. Although there are also sources who admttedly use Jabari. This clearly needs checking -- See also how we treated other individuals with the exact same family name Sulaiman Ja'abari and Muhammad Ali Ja'abari werldwayd ( talk) 03:45, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Right now the article states: "It is widely believed[by whom?] that Jaabari played the leading role in Hamas' takeover of the Gaza Strip from the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in June 2007" I'd like to remove "it is widely believed" since this doesn't seem to be a point of dispute. The cited NYTimes article says: "Mr. Jabari led Hamas forces when they took control of Gaza in 2007, ousting the rival Palestinian faction Fatah..." and the cited AFP article on Al-Arabiya's website says: "He is also credited with playing a leading role in the Islamist movement's forcible takeover of Gaza in summer 2007, which saw its militants expelling Fatah forces after a week of bloody fighting." I don't see a need for us to make a wishy-washy statement for something that credible media sources treat as fact. GabrielF ( talk) 19:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Why is his son's death mentioned in the lead and not the death section? In order to be mentioned in the lead it should be added to the body. Ryan Vesey 19:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
As it was placed in the lead it gave the assumption his son was in the vehicle with him when he was targeted and killed. So far no evidence has been provided his son was among killed let alone in the vehicle with him. Duhon ( talk) 16:03, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
The source included in the article [2] specifically says Baskin "helped mediate between Israel and Hamas". Nishidani, who apparently thinks he knows what the RS meant and his opinion on that is stronger than what they actually said, changed it to the ridiculous "helped mediate via Hamas with Jabari". This is not what the source says. It's complete OR. I fixed it and then Lihaas changed it back.
Could someone kindly explain why we should use an interpretation by an editor over the exact 6 words the RS used? No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 02:05, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
A bit about an Egyptian draft truce proposal was put in the lead. This information comes from one interview with Gershon Baskin. It should not be stated as fact. Also, I don't think it belongs in the lead, so I removed it. Thoughts? No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 02:59, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Could we get further verification for the statement that Jabari directed several attacks (including suicide bombings) against Israel resulting in the deaths of hundreds of civilians? The info comes from the Telegraph but I haven't seen that information in other sources, including Israeli and Palestinian ones. There's no dispute he was the effective head of Hamas's armed wing, but that doesn't mean he necessarily directed the attacks himself. Either we get further verification or we attribute the info to the source i.e. "according to ...". -- Al Ameer son ( talk) 03:58, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I believe that the correct term for such elaborated actions performed by States resulting in the death of a person is "Execution". A "kill" is more like to a manslaughter, somthing akin to a side-effect. This case was definetely not like that. Sperxios ( talk) 22:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi. What is the rationale of using the term "militant" instead of "freedom fighter"? I mean this is a hot issue. Shouldnt a more neutral term be used? Although i agree militant does not have too much of a negative connotation but isnt it still negative? would "fighter" be a better term instead of "militant"? Thanx for anyone's thoughts. Sohebbasharat ( talk) 22:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
69.159.70.54 ( talk) 06:02, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
thats whom you dedicate the website page?????