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Reading our current lead gives the impression that the age of the universe is known to an accuracy of better than plus or minus 1 part in 500, despite the body of the article telling us that it depends on the Hubble Constant. Yet our Hubble's Law article has a large table that gives recent Hubble Constant measurements (within the last 10 years, and also within the last 2 years) that range from under 68 (km/s)/Mpc to over 73 (and under 67 to over 75 if you factor in the published estimated errors on these measurements), a range of plus or minus 1 part in about 30 (or worse), with the additional problem that the different measurements are further apart than is consistent with the published estimated errors on the individual measurements. I've just been watching this month's The Sky at Night on BBC4, which was entirely devoted to this problem. (It basically said that measurements derived from analysing CMB fluctuations tended to give figures under 68, while measurements derived by using standard candles ( Type 1a supernovae and sometimes also Cepheid variables) tended to give figures of about 73). So I get the distinct impression that either our article is misleading our readers by failing to bring this issue to their attention, or alternatively that it is not misleading them but that it is confusing at least those of us readers who are aware of the apparent problem (or who come across it by reading our Hubble's Law article, which is wikilinked from our current article) by not offering a clear explanation of why the problem is more apparent than real (if that is in fact the case). I understand far too little about the matter to be able to try to fix it myself, but perhaps some other better informed editors can try to do so. Tlhslobus ( talk) 07:44, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
It may be important in this article to mention that there are different ways of measuring the age of the universe, which help validate our current theory. [1] [2] [3]
The article has a tone of finality to it; but the science is growing and being challenged. I'd recommend adding a section for "The Tension" due to recent measurements and observations, as the world's scientists are having to re-evaluate our current theories. We no longer have a "consistent story that works for all our cosmological data," according to Princeton University astrophysicist Jo Dunkley. Different teams, one led by Nobel laureate Adam Riess, are proposing that the Universe is only 12.5 Billion years old, which reduces the age of the universe about one billion years. Along with improving theory, the previous accepted age of the universe may be impacted by these challenges. [4] 2600:1700:DC60:B960:D55D:FFCB:8876:86E9 ( talk) 21:42, 28 May 2019 (UTC)rmpj
References
The article claims that the uncertainty is only 20 million years. The age given in the article is 13.8 +/- 0.2 billion years, which means 13.8 billion years plus or minus 20 million, which means between 13.78 and 13.82, an uncertainty of 40 million years. Primal Groudon ( talk) 00:00, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for the general public. It's read by a lot of people who don't have higher education, or the equivalent of a high school diploma, or any interest in math. There's plenty of room to just as exact as the research allows us to be, but we also need to have a simple definition that's easy to read. "13.8*10^9 years (as of 2015[1]) – 13.799±0.021 billion years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model" doesn't cover that need. / Julle ( talk) 14:41, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
There is a Dec 2020 analysis based on ACT data in the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics; see [1]. I didn't add it myself because I can't gauge its significance for inclusion. Rolf H Nelson ( talk) 06:18, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Since the title of this article is "Age of the universe," then it seems to me that the article should provide an overview, and history, of the various cultural and scientific explanations to that question. But the article, without acknowledging that there have ever been other points of view, starts by concluding that the Big Bang theory is the only valid model for estimating the age of the universe. I'm trying to find out what the Steady-State theory has, or had, to say about the age of the universe. The Steady-State theory seems to suggest that the universe is infinitely old. But I'm not sure that I have it right, and I'm writing a chapter in a book and discussing the age of the universe. If this Wikipedia article is all about the Big Bang then a different title is needed. Call it, "The age of the universe according to the Big Bang theory." 2600:8801:BE26:2700:B09F:3FEF:E7EB:2AC5 ( talk) 00:51, 11 June 2021 (UTC) James
Looking at the timeline at the beginning of the History section, it looks like sexual reproduction started 2 billion years ago, but according to Sexual reproduction#Evolution, it should be 1 to 1.2 bya. And now that I look at it, fungi have been around 400 mya, not 1.5bya. So I think the whole scale is off.
- Keith (Hypergeek14) Talk 16:22, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
is it possible to place a link to its definition? thanks, pietro 151.29.14.248 ( talk) 10:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
While McSly infers a good point about the prevalence of the new estimate in their revision, it isn't clearly undue. This estimate was published in peer reviewed journal article. Cosmology is an ever changing field and it would not be unreasonable for that to be reflected here. A mention somewhere of the new results should be made, referencing the original publication instead of popular media coverage.
Gupta, R (2023-07-07). "JWST early Universe observations and ΛCDM cosmology". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society. Oxford University Press (OUP). doi: 10.1093/mnras/stad2032. ISSN 0035-8711. 76.27.110.243 ( talk) 03:36, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello,
I would like to raise a point regarding the current text in the section discussing the age of the universe. Although I am not an expert in astrophysics, I find the juxtaposition of the 27 billion-year prediction with the 14 billion-year measurement somewhat confusing. This discrepancy complicates the readability and coherence of the section.
Are these two different predictions based on distinct models for the evolution of the universe? If so, it might be beneficial to include a separate subsection dedicated to explaining non-standard cosmological models. This addition could help clarify why these varying estimates exist and provide readers with a more structured understanding of the different perspectives.
Thank you.
AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 17:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
The article states universe is about 13.8B years old, but the oldest star is 14.8B years. This has to be a mistake, even in the weird world of physics. Can we fix this or explain the inconsistency? RJHeron ( talk) 10:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Age of the universe article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Index |
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 10 sections are present. |
Reading our current lead gives the impression that the age of the universe is known to an accuracy of better than plus or minus 1 part in 500, despite the body of the article telling us that it depends on the Hubble Constant. Yet our Hubble's Law article has a large table that gives recent Hubble Constant measurements (within the last 10 years, and also within the last 2 years) that range from under 68 (km/s)/Mpc to over 73 (and under 67 to over 75 if you factor in the published estimated errors on these measurements), a range of plus or minus 1 part in about 30 (or worse), with the additional problem that the different measurements are further apart than is consistent with the published estimated errors on the individual measurements. I've just been watching this month's The Sky at Night on BBC4, which was entirely devoted to this problem. (It basically said that measurements derived from analysing CMB fluctuations tended to give figures under 68, while measurements derived by using standard candles ( Type 1a supernovae and sometimes also Cepheid variables) tended to give figures of about 73). So I get the distinct impression that either our article is misleading our readers by failing to bring this issue to their attention, or alternatively that it is not misleading them but that it is confusing at least those of us readers who are aware of the apparent problem (or who come across it by reading our Hubble's Law article, which is wikilinked from our current article) by not offering a clear explanation of why the problem is more apparent than real (if that is in fact the case). I understand far too little about the matter to be able to try to fix it myself, but perhaps some other better informed editors can try to do so. Tlhslobus ( talk) 07:44, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
It may be important in this article to mention that there are different ways of measuring the age of the universe, which help validate our current theory. [1] [2] [3]
The article has a tone of finality to it; but the science is growing and being challenged. I'd recommend adding a section for "The Tension" due to recent measurements and observations, as the world's scientists are having to re-evaluate our current theories. We no longer have a "consistent story that works for all our cosmological data," according to Princeton University astrophysicist Jo Dunkley. Different teams, one led by Nobel laureate Adam Riess, are proposing that the Universe is only 12.5 Billion years old, which reduces the age of the universe about one billion years. Along with improving theory, the previous accepted age of the universe may be impacted by these challenges. [4] 2600:1700:DC60:B960:D55D:FFCB:8876:86E9 ( talk) 21:42, 28 May 2019 (UTC)rmpj
References
The article claims that the uncertainty is only 20 million years. The age given in the article is 13.8 +/- 0.2 billion years, which means 13.8 billion years plus or minus 20 million, which means between 13.78 and 13.82, an uncertainty of 40 million years. Primal Groudon ( talk) 00:00, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for the general public. It's read by a lot of people who don't have higher education, or the equivalent of a high school diploma, or any interest in math. There's plenty of room to just as exact as the research allows us to be, but we also need to have a simple definition that's easy to read. "13.8*10^9 years (as of 2015[1]) – 13.799±0.021 billion years within the Lambda-CDM concordance model" doesn't cover that need. / Julle ( talk) 14:41, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
There is a Dec 2020 analysis based on ACT data in the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics; see [1]. I didn't add it myself because I can't gauge its significance for inclusion. Rolf H Nelson ( talk) 06:18, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Since the title of this article is "Age of the universe," then it seems to me that the article should provide an overview, and history, of the various cultural and scientific explanations to that question. But the article, without acknowledging that there have ever been other points of view, starts by concluding that the Big Bang theory is the only valid model for estimating the age of the universe. I'm trying to find out what the Steady-State theory has, or had, to say about the age of the universe. The Steady-State theory seems to suggest that the universe is infinitely old. But I'm not sure that I have it right, and I'm writing a chapter in a book and discussing the age of the universe. If this Wikipedia article is all about the Big Bang then a different title is needed. Call it, "The age of the universe according to the Big Bang theory." 2600:8801:BE26:2700:B09F:3FEF:E7EB:2AC5 ( talk) 00:51, 11 June 2021 (UTC) James
Looking at the timeline at the beginning of the History section, it looks like sexual reproduction started 2 billion years ago, but according to Sexual reproduction#Evolution, it should be 1 to 1.2 bya. And now that I look at it, fungi have been around 400 mya, not 1.5bya. So I think the whole scale is off.
- Keith (Hypergeek14) Talk 16:22, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
is it possible to place a link to its definition? thanks, pietro 151.29.14.248 ( talk) 10:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
While McSly infers a good point about the prevalence of the new estimate in their revision, it isn't clearly undue. This estimate was published in peer reviewed journal article. Cosmology is an ever changing field and it would not be unreasonable for that to be reflected here. A mention somewhere of the new results should be made, referencing the original publication instead of popular media coverage.
Gupta, R (2023-07-07). "JWST early Universe observations and ΛCDM cosmology". Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society. Oxford University Press (OUP). doi: 10.1093/mnras/stad2032. ISSN 0035-8711. 76.27.110.243 ( talk) 03:36, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Hello,
I would like to raise a point regarding the current text in the section discussing the age of the universe. Although I am not an expert in astrophysics, I find the juxtaposition of the 27 billion-year prediction with the 14 billion-year measurement somewhat confusing. This discrepancy complicates the readability and coherence of the section.
Are these two different predictions based on distinct models for the evolution of the universe? If so, it might be beneficial to include a separate subsection dedicated to explaining non-standard cosmological models. This addition could help clarify why these varying estimates exist and provide readers with a more structured understanding of the different perspectives.
Thank you.
AXONOV (talk) ⚑ 17:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
The article states universe is about 13.8B years old, but the oldest star is 14.8B years. This has to be a mistake, even in the weird world of physics. Can we fix this or explain the inconsistency? RJHeron ( talk) 10:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)