This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The previous discussions have been archived as per Wikipedia’s talk archiving policies. Wikieditors are invited to peruse the archive before starting a new discussion to determine if any issue of interest is dealt with therein. This current Talk page is for starting new discussions not covered in the archive, or for re-visiting older issues. The archive itself is not to be edited. Happy reading!— SpikeToronto ( talk) 19:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
"Mallowan introduced her to wine, which she never enjoyed – preferring to drink water in restaurants. She tried unsuccessfully to make herself like cigarettes by smoking one after lunch and one after dinner every day for six months." ~ AmazingAlec ( talk) 12:48, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Doesn't seem like it to me. I also wonder about this: "He soon developed a romantic relationship with Clara, and they were married in April 1878". It's already been mentioned that Clara met "her future husband" -is it necessary to say he :developed a romantic relationship"? -- Daveler16 ( talk) 18:43, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
"she remains the most-translated individual author – having been translated into at least 103 languages."
There are individual books that have been translated into way more languages than 103, so I don't know how that is true.... ( /info/en/?search=List_of_literary_works_by_number_of_translations)
Maybe you mean to say that she has a large number of novels and many of them have a huge number of translations. And if you add up all of these translation she has a total surpassing all other authors? If so, to get that idea across the sentence would have to reworded. 207.61.204.116 ( talk) 12:48, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Half of the 2 billion sales of her works were translations, per the Agatha Christie web site. Her web site claims 44 languages, but Guinness in 1976 said 103. "Most translated author" seems clear enough to me. The discussion on sales and translations has been included in the section Critical Reception; previously it was only in the lead, and the lead should be the summary or highlights of the article. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 14:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I was looking at the Agatha Christie page and the sidebar column on the right indicates a link to Ms. Christie's daughter, Rosalind Hicks. That link actually takes you back to the page for Agatha Christie. 850commando ( talk) 18:01, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I have undone the good-faith edits of Notthebestusername because of sourcing problems. The source cited to support these several additions includes a link to video content that appears to be unrelated to Christie. It's just possible that there's an extremely long ad—more than two minutes—that plays first, but it's impossible to know what's going on because the web site is not in English. Even if the BBC program does eventually play from that url, I have concerns that the site may be hosting a copyright violation. If so, we must not link to it. I'd suggest trying to find a link to an authorized upload of the program. (There are official BBC channels on YouTube, for instance.) Rivertorch FIRE WATER 14:35, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
• This article states: Guinness World Records lists Christie as the best-selling novelist of all time. Her novels have sold roughly 2 billion copies. • But in the article "List of prolific writers" the 2 billion are doubled: Dame Agatha Christie, the most-published novelist in history, is estimated to have sold 4 billion books. • I can't seem to find the correct figure from Guinness source. Can somebody please help? Mieliestronk ( talk) 20:46, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
I see that this article reached GA for a brief period in 2009 but was then delisted. It has now been expanded to about three times its 2009 length and has been far better referenced. It looks to me that with some general improvements in presentation and some careful copyediting, the article could be quickly brought up to GA standard. I'll see if I can devote some time to it myself but would appreciate assistance. I think it goes without saying that Christie is one of the world's most significant female authors, receiving an average of some 5,000 page views a day on Wikipedia.-- Ipigott ( talk) 12:53, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
There have been, by conservative estimate, a gazillion articles and books written about Agatha Christie. Looking through the list of articles and books currently under "further reading" I see none that seem important or unique. I'm sure we could add 20 more that are just as relevant and vital, with no rhyme or reason for one over the other.
When a subject has been as thoroughly written about as Christie has, I do not think a "further reading" list serves any purpose; we don't need to direct people to discussions and analyses because they are so easy to find.
In short, I'd like to kill it off. Any thoughts? - DavidWBrooks ( talk) 17:18, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
SchroCat - We've both seen a lot worse, but I'd be inclined to the house for the present. KJP1 ( talk) 22:02, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
It would be nice if here, or as a link that is easy to wee, there is a list of her works. Kdammers ( talk) 05:44, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Minor factual detail:
Following the referenced biography, the Childhood and adolescence section states that Christie's grandfather 'Boehmer was killed in a riding accident while stationed on Jersey in April 1863'. Although Boehmer's death notice does say 'late of the 4th King's Own' (Hampshire Telegraph, 18 April 1863), he retired from the Army in 1860 ( https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/7051/page/1162) so would not seem to have been 'stationed' in Jersey at the time of his death. Unless other evidence is provided, it would be better to simply state that 'Boehmer was killed in a riding accident in Jersey in April 1863'. RLO1729 ( talk) 02:22, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
A number of book sources in the reference list included a page number which appeared to be the total number of pages in the book rather than the page supporting the information given in the biography. Where obvious, these page numbers have been removed but there are still a few cases where I am uncertain if it is the right page number or not. Can anyone confirm please?
Also, three very similar sources appear in the reference list:
Can these be reduced to only one source with relevant page numbers in the text? RLO1729 ( talk) 11:38, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:37, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks to Пётр Филимонов ( talk) for the image of Agatha at Schiphol in 1964, added to the Christie article information box after two Commons images were bot deleted (see "A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion" above and the Christie article revision history).
I suggest continuing to use the Commons image of Christie in 1925 (below left) in the article information box for as long as it remains in the Commons and using a cropped version of the Schiphol image (below right) later in the article.
What do others think? RLO1729 ( talk) 01:24, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
I think the 1925 picture looks very nice, and is well composed, so I would support it as an infobox image. And I agree that the current infobox image of her could be used somewhere below in the article
Lochglasgowstrathyre (
talk)
19:28, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
This is to record, with thanks, the significant and valuable collaboration of Tbytheriver in the series of edits of this article I have made since October 2019. ~ RLO1729 💬 06:47, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
It has truly been a pleasure collaborating! Tbytheriver ( talk) 07:54, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
In a recent edit, SchroCat raised a valid issue of the number of bullet points in the "Works, reception, and legacy" section given there is a separate Agatha Christie bibliography article. I have been hesitant to delete large sections of existing text written by others that has remained relatively stable over a number of years, but would welcome other editors' thoughts on what should stay and what should go in this section.
Some summary repetition of information from the bibliography is certainly appropriate to provide continuity and completeness in the present article, but where is the balance? Also, the majority of bullet points in this section are in the "Titles" section and present information on the origins of Christie's book titles rather than repeating information in the bibliography. Or should that information be moved to the bibliography? Thoughts? ~ RLO1729 💬 09:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I didn't know that Christie's mother was from Ireland! Should this article be categorized under "English people of Irish descent" and possibly "English people of German descent" judging by the surnames? This is of course, if the sources support it. TJMSmith ( talk) 14:45, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 04:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi! Posting my comments from next week. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 04:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I have taken a good look at the article now and I will post my comments over the next few days. SchroCat, thank you for your scrutiny of the article, it is great to have another pair of eyes check a long and important article like this. I read the points you raised and I agree with you.. one might suspect POV issues with the wording in places, incomplete coverage in Portrayals and apparent lack of sources in some sections where citations may not be necessary per MOS guidelines, but adding citations helps a lot as they "stop the "fact" being challenged later on". I especially appreciate the footnotes suggestion as it fixes a lot of these issues. Apart from that there are a few unreliable sources as mentioned. RLO1729, thanks for actively addressing some of the issues, we will handle the rest as we move ahead with the review. Let me compile my points and I will post them in batches. Cheers, Sainsf ( knock knock · am I there?) 08:12, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
So beginning with the comments: Sainsf ( knock knock · am I there?) 18:48, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
known for her sixty-six detective novels and fourteen short story collectionsPer the MOS numbers above ten should be in digits
published in 1920 featuring HerculeComma after 1920
She was surrounded by a series of strong and independent women from an early age'Independent' may be a fact, but in whose opinion were they 'strong'? An idea to rewrite this is attribute this statement to the writer of the source. Here it seems to be a credible biography by a notable person, whose name you can take and say "Jane Morgan notes in her biography of Christie that.." which omits concerns of NPOV and OR.
Although she devoted much time to her pets, Christie spent much of her childhood apart from other childrenI don't quite see the contradiction here to say 'although' at the start.
she continued her social activitiesAre there any prior mentions of such activities? Let me know if I missed any
would visit the homes of her step-grandmother/great-aunt Margaret Miller in Ealing and maternal grandmother Mary Boehmer in Bayswater, Childhood:
her appearance with them in a youth production of Gilbert and Sullivan's The Yeomen of the Guard, and Early literary attempts:
Christie attended many social functions and particularly enjoyed watching polo. ~ RLO1729 💬 01:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
The House of Dreams,[20])citations are typically placed after the bracket.
Christie wrote her first short storyWhat year?
One of her biographers has commented thatIf you do go with calling her by her name, replace mentions like 'one biographer' etc with 'Morgan'.
made under pseudonyms (including Mac Miller, Nathaniel Miller, and Sydney West)Should these not be mentioned in the infobox? It appears as if Mary Westmacott was the only pen name she used. May be call it her most commonly used surname or something in the lead? Similarly for Monosyllaba and any others later.
Christie then set her first novel, Snow Upon the Desert, in CairoI think "Christie then began work on her first novel, Snow Upon the Desert, set in Cairo..." sounds better. Also, what year was this?
from a family friend and neighbour, successful novelist Eden Phillpotts"from successful novelist Eden Phillpotts, a family friend and neighbour" flows better
Meanwhile, her social activities expandedAgain, more details on this would be helpful.
She then met Archibald ChristieThe name "Archie" used later should be mentioned here
Her war service ended when Archie was reassigned to LondonYear? Keep mentioning years whenever there are important events like this.
She wrote her own detective novel...moustaches" and egg-shaped headsounds a bit weird. Do you mean her "first" detective novel? Also, you later say
She began working on The Mysterious Affair at Styles in 1916which sounds repetitive. Maybe the line I mentioned first should be reworded "Her first detective novel was..."
Poirot had taken refuge in Britain after Germany invaded Belgium.Should be merged with the earlier line
though they still employed a maidSeems irrelevant
as did short stories commissioned by Bruce IngramMay be the short stories publication should be described more. Especially as she faced many rejections initially.. did she face similar troubles here too? Also, since when did these short stories start appearing?
The disappearance caused a public outcryHad she acquired a lot of fame by then? May be talk a bit about the success of her works in the previous section to give the idea.
Some believe that she disappeared during a fugue state, including her biographer Janet MorganTo be changed to "including Morgan" if you go for mentioning her as said earlier
Laura Thompson provides the alternative viewShe is only called "one biographer" anonymously earlier, may be change those references to her actual name and continue likewise throughout the text. Or introduce her here.
Christie would use settings that were familiar to her for her storiesThis should include a mention of Poirot, as his character was also influenced by her observation of Belgian refugees in real life. I am not sure where to place this paragraph though, as it is quite general and does not belong exactly to this part of her timeline. May be put it in Formula and plot devices?
Christie's 1934 novel Murder on the Orient Express was written in the Pera Palace HotelIf the source states so, may be it will be clearer to write she used her travel experience (most importantly the train journey) to write this.
National Trust in 2000[52])cite after bracket
fictional Chimneys, StoneygatesWhy the caps?
She served in a Devon hospital during the First World War, acquiring a good knowledge of poisonsNow looking back at this from the lead this has not been mentioned clearly in the main text (World War I section), whereas this statement is there in the next section
she updated her knowledge of poisons – to be put to good use in her post-war crime novels. Need to add the important missing link
it helped solve a case that was baffling doctorsYou mean in real life? The way this is worded one may mistake it for a story plot.
she and Max MallowanStick to calling him Mallowan
They were one of the few married couples...knighthood, Christie could also be styled Lady Mallowan.No inline citations
I DO like sunWere the caps in the original quote? First time I'm seeing something like this.
Winterbrook House, Winterbrook, Wallingford, OxfordshireJust the name of the house should do.. the location details seem a bit too long and were anyway mentioned only a few paragraphs earlier.
with her husband Sir MaxMention either the relation or the name for previously introduced (plus heavily discussed in this case) people. Anyway consistency is needed in her husband's name. If necessary say Lord Mallowan consistently after you mention knighthood, I'm not sure how the name should be.
by her daughter, Rosalind Hicks,Again, either the name (without Hicks) or the relation should be mentioned
at the time earning £2.1m annual revenueMaybe add a present day estimate?
Biographer Laura ThompsonRepeated introduction
Their last adventure, Postern of Fate, was also the last novel written by Christieis probably important enough to include in the ending to the career section. I myself was under the misconception that Curtain was her last and Sleeping Murders was the only one posthumously published. Could we do that? Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 07:07, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
The "Queen of Fictional Crime"[100] developed her storytelling techniques during what has been called the Golden Age of detective fictionThe title is not mentioned previously, not even the lead, but is apparently a crucial point. The present wording seems a bit too sudden and cramped for two major points in one line.. it would be good to split this into two, first say maybe that several sources/people/authors etc have called her the Queen of Fictional Crime (isn't it more commonly Queen of Crime that we hear?) followed by the Golden Age point which, by the way, should be in title case and would look better without italics. Sure italics emphasize points but some consistency is appreciable. As other points don't, and look better without, italics, this too should look similar.
Christie has been variously dubbed the Duchess of Death, the Mistress of Mystery, and the Queen of Crime.
in her Forward to Cards on the TableIsn't it usually Foreword?
John Curran describes howJust Curran works
grateful thanks" for writing this novelDoes the quote not cover the last part? Ideally the last part should be bracketed and put within quotes to imply an obvious (not originally researched) missing part.
conventions: There is no detectivesmall 'T'
Many of Christie's mature worksWhat are 'mature' works and considered so by whom?
Author Charles Osborne notesJust Osborne
Reflecting a juxtaposition of innocence and horror...in the course of the story.No inline citations
The other Westmacott titles are... A Daughter's a Daughter (1952), and The Burden (1956)About the citations for book titles, do we add a note or something as we discussed earlier?
regarded Christie's plotting as superior to her skill with other literary elementsNow that we have read so much about her skills in constructing mystery plots, it would be good to know what literary elements were found to be lacking in her works. The critics and their writings are mentioned but please include a few words on what exactly they felt was lacking, what they were "dismissive" about.
As of 2011, And Then There Were None was Christie's best-selling novel, with approximately 100 million sales"As of 2011" sounds better than "is" in the lead, as it does not confuse one as to when this information was added? Have there been changes since then?
The French television series... works of detective fiction.no inline citations
That's for the second phase.. final phase coming after most of this has been dealt with. Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 18:38, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Impressive work at an amazing pace :) Starting with the last part now. Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 07:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
There were to be many medical practitioners...among numerous othersI get the meaning but it could be rephrased for better. Sounds a bit like these people are going to occur in her real life and then there is a string of her novels all of a sudden.
Arsenic, aconite, strychnine, digitalis, thallium, and many other standard pharmaceuticalsWe could do with a good number of links here. Digitalis links to Digitalis (foxglove) , which is the article about the plant and not the drug. You can say "digitalis (a drug obtained from foxgloves)" and link foxglove instead.
I don't have any new comments to make. Thanks for this very interesting read, I enjoyed every bit of it :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 07:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Pardon me for butting in to your GA review. I came to this page today to check out something in a paper by one of my students. I don't see why we have that great long paragraph on Christie's parents. In abbreviated form, it could go into a note, but seems irrelevant in an encyclopedia article on Agatha Christie. YoPienso ( talk) 01:28, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
We have worked together and discussed several points about the article in the last two weeks. All major issues raised in this review have been adequately addressed, and the article now meets all GA criteria in my opinion. Excellent work by both nominators on such a long and difficult article. Promoting :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 14:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
The Agatha Christie Star | ||
The Agatha Christie Star is hereby awarded for making a significant contribution to the Agatha Christie article during its long journey to Good Article standard on 11 May 2020 (UTC). |
To all Agatha Christie article editors: The revision history shows that editors have been working on this article since at least 2001! Now that it has reached Good Article standard, please accept this award if you have made a significant contribution along the way. See
Agatha Christie Star award for details. :) ~
RLO1729
💬
06:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Not a big deal but this chestnut has arisen in the article's edits over time, with the article being edited both from "more than" (... two billion copies, for example) to "over" and, more recently, vice versa. There are numerous online discussions of which is "correct" but, from my reading of these sites, the modern consensus seems to be that either can be used (where appropriate). WP:MOS does not take a position but Merriam-Webster would seem to carry some weight. On balance, although I have previously used "more than" in the article myself, I now prefer the more succinct "over", but would welcome other editors' thoughts please. ~ RLO1729 💬 06:48, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Brogo13, thanks again for your recent copy edits, you have a good eye for detail. I see that numerous full-stops terminating sentences which end with quotations have been moved inside the quotation marks. MOS:INOROUT recommends: "For the most part, ... keep them inside the quotation marks if they apply only to the quoted material and outside if they apply to the whole sentence." and gives some useful examples. I would be grateful if you could revise your recent edits along these lines please. Thanks ~ RLO1729 💬 09:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
There are multiple changes from someone who is either being clever or deliberately trolling. It might be best if the article was locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:9EC1:8500:0:0:0:1 ( talk) 20:40, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
This article says that Christie was "a lifelong, "quietly devout", member of the Church of England". Should this article therefore be added to the category "English Anglicans"? Rollo August ( talk) 16:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
In 2021, and with the current structure/format of Wikipedia articles today, that section is too lengthy. In addition to this, each topic has their own separate section with its corresponding info, as such, breaking the article into smaller and more navigatable sections would be better. Dcdiehardfan ( talk) 07:22, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Mount Allison University supported by Anthropology and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2012 Q1 term. Further details are available on the course page.
Above message substituted from {{WAP assignment}}
on 14:20, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
On her headstone is the birth date 15th September 1890 2001:8003:2004:8301:E88B:FF83:697E:7DA2 ( talk) 09:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
Hello! I'm new to wikipedia and can't figure out how to edit the search preview text. Maybe someone more experienced can fix this issue? When I Google "Agatha Christie," the Wikipedia article appears as one of the top results. But underneath, where it gives a preview of the article's text, it reads "homophobic Dame Agatha Mary Clarissa Christie..." How do we remove "homophobic" from the search preview? The article itself makes no mention of homophobia. 4f3pdce8 ( talk) 16:00, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
I think the article is looking very good. I see we skate somewhat over the matter of the subject's treatment of racial matters in the section Character stereotypes; we also note, correctly, that the standards for such things have altered enormously in the past century or so. But I do not think we should consider omitting (as we do at present) the original title of her most read work, And Then There Were None. It's a particularly resonant topic at the moment, of course, and one on which scholars have written. Here is how the book article describes it:
The original title of the mystery (Ten Little Niggers) was changed because it was offensive in the United States and some other places. Alison Light, a literary critic and feminist scholar, opined that Christie's original title and the setting on "Nigger Island" (later changed to "Indian Island" and "Soldier Island", variously) were integral to the work. These aspects of the novel, she argued, "could be relied upon automatically to conjure up a thrilling 'otherness', a place where revelations about the 'dark side' of the English would be appropriate." [1] Unlike novels such as Heart of Darkness, "Christie's location is both more domesticated and privatized, taking for granted the construction of racial fears woven into psychic life as early as the nursery. If her story suggests how easy it is to play upon such fears, it is also a reminder of how intimately tied they are to sources of pleasure and enjoyment." [1]
I suggest we include a greatly shortened version of that material into this article. -- 84.64.237.205 ( talk) 00:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Christie's original title for And Then There Were None (1939) was Ten Little N******, based on an 1869 minstrel rhyme. This was considered unacceptable in the US as the word n***** was acknowledged as an offensive racial slur. The US title, And Then There Were None, was adopted in the UK in 1985. The original title and the prevalence of the slur in the original text has led modern critics to criticise Christie's attitudes to race. [2] [3]
-- 84.64.237.205 ( talk) 13:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Christie's original title for And Then There Were None (1939) was Ten Little Niggers, based on an 1869 minstrel rhyme. The title was not used in the US as it was considered racially offensive. The US title, And Then There Were None, was adopted in the UK in 1985. Alison Light, a literary critic and feminist scholar, believes that the original title reflects a symbolic darkness integral to the novel. [1] The title and the prevalence of the slur in the original text have led other modern writers, including Elizabeth Marshall and Sadie Stein, to criticise Christie's attitudes to race.[4] [5]
Christie's original title for And Then There Were None (1939) was Ten Little Niggers, based on an 1869 minstrel rhyme. The title was not used in the US as it was considered racially offensive. The US title, And Then There Were None, was adopted in the UK in 1985. Alison Light, a literary critic and feminist scholar, believes that the original title reflects a symbolic darkness integral to the novel. [1] The title and the prevalence of the slur in the original text have led the writers Elizabeth Marshall and Sadie Stein to criticise Christie's attitudes to race. [6] [7]
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: url-status (
link)References
I notice there is currently no mention of her original book title in this article, no mention of her using the word in question, and no mention of racist overtones in her work – only anti-Semitism (which gets two paragraphs) and one mention of a stereotyping of Italians and "non-Europeans". There is also no use of the word "racism", "racist", "racial" or "race" (although there is one use of the more vague concept of "ethnicity"). The above-quoted section heading is gone – replaced by the more bland heading "Character stereotypes". There is no explanation of the reference to Italians and non-Europeans. This seems rather questionable to me. The article mentions that someone noticed that some of her works have since been edited "to remove potentially offensive language" (which is "potentially" putting it mildly in my opinion – no one would publish that novel with its original title and cover art today), saying this was reported in an article published this year in The Telegraph. I suspect someone noticed these problems in her work before 2023. Is the current omission of such material generally supported by others? — BarrelProof ( talk) 00:05, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The previous discussions have been archived as per Wikipedia’s talk archiving policies. Wikieditors are invited to peruse the archive before starting a new discussion to determine if any issue of interest is dealt with therein. This current Talk page is for starting new discussions not covered in the archive, or for re-visiting older issues. The archive itself is not to be edited. Happy reading!— SpikeToronto ( talk) 19:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
"Mallowan introduced her to wine, which she never enjoyed – preferring to drink water in restaurants. She tried unsuccessfully to make herself like cigarettes by smoking one after lunch and one after dinner every day for six months." ~ AmazingAlec ( talk) 12:48, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
Doesn't seem like it to me. I also wonder about this: "He soon developed a romantic relationship with Clara, and they were married in April 1878". It's already been mentioned that Clara met "her future husband" -is it necessary to say he :developed a romantic relationship"? -- Daveler16 ( talk) 18:43, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
"she remains the most-translated individual author – having been translated into at least 103 languages."
There are individual books that have been translated into way more languages than 103, so I don't know how that is true.... ( /info/en/?search=List_of_literary_works_by_number_of_translations)
Maybe you mean to say that she has a large number of novels and many of them have a huge number of translations. And if you add up all of these translation she has a total surpassing all other authors? If so, to get that idea across the sentence would have to reworded. 207.61.204.116 ( talk) 12:48, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
Half of the 2 billion sales of her works were translations, per the Agatha Christie web site. Her web site claims 44 languages, but Guinness in 1976 said 103. "Most translated author" seems clear enough to me. The discussion on sales and translations has been included in the section Critical Reception; previously it was only in the lead, and the lead should be the summary or highlights of the article. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 14:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
I was looking at the Agatha Christie page and the sidebar column on the right indicates a link to Ms. Christie's daughter, Rosalind Hicks. That link actually takes you back to the page for Agatha Christie. 850commando ( talk) 18:01, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
I have undone the good-faith edits of Notthebestusername because of sourcing problems. The source cited to support these several additions includes a link to video content that appears to be unrelated to Christie. It's just possible that there's an extremely long ad—more than two minutes—that plays first, but it's impossible to know what's going on because the web site is not in English. Even if the BBC program does eventually play from that url, I have concerns that the site may be hosting a copyright violation. If so, we must not link to it. I'd suggest trying to find a link to an authorized upload of the program. (There are official BBC channels on YouTube, for instance.) Rivertorch FIRE WATER 14:35, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
• This article states: Guinness World Records lists Christie as the best-selling novelist of all time. Her novels have sold roughly 2 billion copies. • But in the article "List of prolific writers" the 2 billion are doubled: Dame Agatha Christie, the most-published novelist in history, is estimated to have sold 4 billion books. • I can't seem to find the correct figure from Guinness source. Can somebody please help? Mieliestronk ( talk) 20:46, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
I see that this article reached GA for a brief period in 2009 but was then delisted. It has now been expanded to about three times its 2009 length and has been far better referenced. It looks to me that with some general improvements in presentation and some careful copyediting, the article could be quickly brought up to GA standard. I'll see if I can devote some time to it myself but would appreciate assistance. I think it goes without saying that Christie is one of the world's most significant female authors, receiving an average of some 5,000 page views a day on Wikipedia.-- Ipigott ( talk) 12:53, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
There have been, by conservative estimate, a gazillion articles and books written about Agatha Christie. Looking through the list of articles and books currently under "further reading" I see none that seem important or unique. I'm sure we could add 20 more that are just as relevant and vital, with no rhyme or reason for one over the other.
When a subject has been as thoroughly written about as Christie has, I do not think a "further reading" list serves any purpose; we don't need to direct people to discussions and analyses because they are so easy to find.
In short, I'd like to kill it off. Any thoughts? - DavidWBrooks ( talk) 17:18, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
SchroCat - We've both seen a lot worse, but I'd be inclined to the house for the present. KJP1 ( talk) 22:02, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
It would be nice if here, or as a link that is easy to wee, there is a list of her works. Kdammers ( talk) 05:44, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Minor factual detail:
Following the referenced biography, the Childhood and adolescence section states that Christie's grandfather 'Boehmer was killed in a riding accident while stationed on Jersey in April 1863'. Although Boehmer's death notice does say 'late of the 4th King's Own' (Hampshire Telegraph, 18 April 1863), he retired from the Army in 1860 ( https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinburgh/issue/7051/page/1162) so would not seem to have been 'stationed' in Jersey at the time of his death. Unless other evidence is provided, it would be better to simply state that 'Boehmer was killed in a riding accident in Jersey in April 1863'. RLO1729 ( talk) 02:22, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
A number of book sources in the reference list included a page number which appeared to be the total number of pages in the book rather than the page supporting the information given in the biography. Where obvious, these page numbers have been removed but there are still a few cases where I am uncertain if it is the right page number or not. Can anyone confirm please?
Also, three very similar sources appear in the reference list:
Can these be reduced to only one source with relevant page numbers in the text? RLO1729 ( talk) 11:38, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 21:37, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks to Пётр Филимонов ( talk) for the image of Agatha at Schiphol in 1964, added to the Christie article information box after two Commons images were bot deleted (see "A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion" above and the Christie article revision history).
I suggest continuing to use the Commons image of Christie in 1925 (below left) in the article information box for as long as it remains in the Commons and using a cropped version of the Schiphol image (below right) later in the article.
What do others think? RLO1729 ( talk) 01:24, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
I think the 1925 picture looks very nice, and is well composed, so I would support it as an infobox image. And I agree that the current infobox image of her could be used somewhere below in the article
Lochglasgowstrathyre (
talk)
19:28, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
This is to record, with thanks, the significant and valuable collaboration of Tbytheriver in the series of edits of this article I have made since October 2019. ~ RLO1729 💬 06:47, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
It has truly been a pleasure collaborating! Tbytheriver ( talk) 07:54, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
In a recent edit, SchroCat raised a valid issue of the number of bullet points in the "Works, reception, and legacy" section given there is a separate Agatha Christie bibliography article. I have been hesitant to delete large sections of existing text written by others that has remained relatively stable over a number of years, but would welcome other editors' thoughts on what should stay and what should go in this section.
Some summary repetition of information from the bibliography is certainly appropriate to provide continuity and completeness in the present article, but where is the balance? Also, the majority of bullet points in this section are in the "Titles" section and present information on the origins of Christie's book titles rather than repeating information in the bibliography. Or should that information be moved to the bibliography? Thoughts? ~ RLO1729 💬 09:24, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
I didn't know that Christie's mother was from Ireland! Should this article be categorized under "English people of Irish descent" and possibly "English people of German descent" judging by the surnames? This is of course, if the sources support it. TJMSmith ( talk) 14:45, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 04:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi! Posting my comments from next week. Sainsf ( talk · contribs) 04:21, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I have taken a good look at the article now and I will post my comments over the next few days. SchroCat, thank you for your scrutiny of the article, it is great to have another pair of eyes check a long and important article like this. I read the points you raised and I agree with you.. one might suspect POV issues with the wording in places, incomplete coverage in Portrayals and apparent lack of sources in some sections where citations may not be necessary per MOS guidelines, but adding citations helps a lot as they "stop the "fact" being challenged later on". I especially appreciate the footnotes suggestion as it fixes a lot of these issues. Apart from that there are a few unreliable sources as mentioned. RLO1729, thanks for actively addressing some of the issues, we will handle the rest as we move ahead with the review. Let me compile my points and I will post them in batches. Cheers, Sainsf ( knock knock · am I there?) 08:12, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
So beginning with the comments: Sainsf ( knock knock · am I there?) 18:48, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
known for her sixty-six detective novels and fourteen short story collectionsPer the MOS numbers above ten should be in digits
published in 1920 featuring HerculeComma after 1920
She was surrounded by a series of strong and independent women from an early age'Independent' may be a fact, but in whose opinion were they 'strong'? An idea to rewrite this is attribute this statement to the writer of the source. Here it seems to be a credible biography by a notable person, whose name you can take and say "Jane Morgan notes in her biography of Christie that.." which omits concerns of NPOV and OR.
Although she devoted much time to her pets, Christie spent much of her childhood apart from other childrenI don't quite see the contradiction here to say 'although' at the start.
she continued her social activitiesAre there any prior mentions of such activities? Let me know if I missed any
would visit the homes of her step-grandmother/great-aunt Margaret Miller in Ealing and maternal grandmother Mary Boehmer in Bayswater, Childhood:
her appearance with them in a youth production of Gilbert and Sullivan's The Yeomen of the Guard, and Early literary attempts:
Christie attended many social functions and particularly enjoyed watching polo. ~ RLO1729 💬 01:50, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
The House of Dreams,[20])citations are typically placed after the bracket.
Christie wrote her first short storyWhat year?
One of her biographers has commented thatIf you do go with calling her by her name, replace mentions like 'one biographer' etc with 'Morgan'.
made under pseudonyms (including Mac Miller, Nathaniel Miller, and Sydney West)Should these not be mentioned in the infobox? It appears as if Mary Westmacott was the only pen name she used. May be call it her most commonly used surname or something in the lead? Similarly for Monosyllaba and any others later.
Christie then set her first novel, Snow Upon the Desert, in CairoI think "Christie then began work on her first novel, Snow Upon the Desert, set in Cairo..." sounds better. Also, what year was this?
from a family friend and neighbour, successful novelist Eden Phillpotts"from successful novelist Eden Phillpotts, a family friend and neighbour" flows better
Meanwhile, her social activities expandedAgain, more details on this would be helpful.
She then met Archibald ChristieThe name "Archie" used later should be mentioned here
Her war service ended when Archie was reassigned to LondonYear? Keep mentioning years whenever there are important events like this.
She wrote her own detective novel...moustaches" and egg-shaped headsounds a bit weird. Do you mean her "first" detective novel? Also, you later say
She began working on The Mysterious Affair at Styles in 1916which sounds repetitive. Maybe the line I mentioned first should be reworded "Her first detective novel was..."
Poirot had taken refuge in Britain after Germany invaded Belgium.Should be merged with the earlier line
though they still employed a maidSeems irrelevant
as did short stories commissioned by Bruce IngramMay be the short stories publication should be described more. Especially as she faced many rejections initially.. did she face similar troubles here too? Also, since when did these short stories start appearing?
The disappearance caused a public outcryHad she acquired a lot of fame by then? May be talk a bit about the success of her works in the previous section to give the idea.
Some believe that she disappeared during a fugue state, including her biographer Janet MorganTo be changed to "including Morgan" if you go for mentioning her as said earlier
Laura Thompson provides the alternative viewShe is only called "one biographer" anonymously earlier, may be change those references to her actual name and continue likewise throughout the text. Or introduce her here.
Christie would use settings that were familiar to her for her storiesThis should include a mention of Poirot, as his character was also influenced by her observation of Belgian refugees in real life. I am not sure where to place this paragraph though, as it is quite general and does not belong exactly to this part of her timeline. May be put it in Formula and plot devices?
Christie's 1934 novel Murder on the Orient Express was written in the Pera Palace HotelIf the source states so, may be it will be clearer to write she used her travel experience (most importantly the train journey) to write this.
National Trust in 2000[52])cite after bracket
fictional Chimneys, StoneygatesWhy the caps?
She served in a Devon hospital during the First World War, acquiring a good knowledge of poisonsNow looking back at this from the lead this has not been mentioned clearly in the main text (World War I section), whereas this statement is there in the next section
she updated her knowledge of poisons – to be put to good use in her post-war crime novels. Need to add the important missing link
it helped solve a case that was baffling doctorsYou mean in real life? The way this is worded one may mistake it for a story plot.
she and Max MallowanStick to calling him Mallowan
They were one of the few married couples...knighthood, Christie could also be styled Lady Mallowan.No inline citations
I DO like sunWere the caps in the original quote? First time I'm seeing something like this.
Winterbrook House, Winterbrook, Wallingford, OxfordshireJust the name of the house should do.. the location details seem a bit too long and were anyway mentioned only a few paragraphs earlier.
with her husband Sir MaxMention either the relation or the name for previously introduced (plus heavily discussed in this case) people. Anyway consistency is needed in her husband's name. If necessary say Lord Mallowan consistently after you mention knighthood, I'm not sure how the name should be.
by her daughter, Rosalind Hicks,Again, either the name (without Hicks) or the relation should be mentioned
at the time earning £2.1m annual revenueMaybe add a present day estimate?
Biographer Laura ThompsonRepeated introduction
Their last adventure, Postern of Fate, was also the last novel written by Christieis probably important enough to include in the ending to the career section. I myself was under the misconception that Curtain was her last and Sleeping Murders was the only one posthumously published. Could we do that? Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 07:07, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
The "Queen of Fictional Crime"[100] developed her storytelling techniques during what has been called the Golden Age of detective fictionThe title is not mentioned previously, not even the lead, but is apparently a crucial point. The present wording seems a bit too sudden and cramped for two major points in one line.. it would be good to split this into two, first say maybe that several sources/people/authors etc have called her the Queen of Fictional Crime (isn't it more commonly Queen of Crime that we hear?) followed by the Golden Age point which, by the way, should be in title case and would look better without italics. Sure italics emphasize points but some consistency is appreciable. As other points don't, and look better without, italics, this too should look similar.
Christie has been variously dubbed the Duchess of Death, the Mistress of Mystery, and the Queen of Crime.
in her Forward to Cards on the TableIsn't it usually Foreword?
John Curran describes howJust Curran works
grateful thanks" for writing this novelDoes the quote not cover the last part? Ideally the last part should be bracketed and put within quotes to imply an obvious (not originally researched) missing part.
conventions: There is no detectivesmall 'T'
Many of Christie's mature worksWhat are 'mature' works and considered so by whom?
Author Charles Osborne notesJust Osborne
Reflecting a juxtaposition of innocence and horror...in the course of the story.No inline citations
The other Westmacott titles are... A Daughter's a Daughter (1952), and The Burden (1956)About the citations for book titles, do we add a note or something as we discussed earlier?
regarded Christie's plotting as superior to her skill with other literary elementsNow that we have read so much about her skills in constructing mystery plots, it would be good to know what literary elements were found to be lacking in her works. The critics and their writings are mentioned but please include a few words on what exactly they felt was lacking, what they were "dismissive" about.
As of 2011, And Then There Were None was Christie's best-selling novel, with approximately 100 million sales"As of 2011" sounds better than "is" in the lead, as it does not confuse one as to when this information was added? Have there been changes since then?
The French television series... works of detective fiction.no inline citations
That's for the second phase.. final phase coming after most of this has been dealt with. Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 18:38, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
Impressive work at an amazing pace :) Starting with the last part now. Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 07:28, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
There were to be many medical practitioners...among numerous othersI get the meaning but it could be rephrased for better. Sounds a bit like these people are going to occur in her real life and then there is a string of her novels all of a sudden.
Arsenic, aconite, strychnine, digitalis, thallium, and many other standard pharmaceuticalsWe could do with a good number of links here. Digitalis links to Digitalis (foxglove) , which is the article about the plant and not the drug. You can say "digitalis (a drug obtained from foxgloves)" and link foxglove instead.
I don't have any new comments to make. Thanks for this very interesting read, I enjoyed every bit of it :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 07:45, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Pardon me for butting in to your GA review. I came to this page today to check out something in a paper by one of my students. I don't see why we have that great long paragraph on Christie's parents. In abbreviated form, it could go into a note, but seems irrelevant in an encyclopedia article on Agatha Christie. YoPienso ( talk) 01:28, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
We have worked together and discussed several points about the article in the last two weeks. All major issues raised in this review have been adequately addressed, and the article now meets all GA criteria in my opinion. Excellent work by both nominators on such a long and difficult article. Promoting :) Sainsf · (How ya doin'?) 14:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:08, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
The Agatha Christie Star | ||
The Agatha Christie Star is hereby awarded for making a significant contribution to the Agatha Christie article during its long journey to Good Article standard on 11 May 2020 (UTC). |
To all Agatha Christie article editors: The revision history shows that editors have been working on this article since at least 2001! Now that it has reached Good Article standard, please accept this award if you have made a significant contribution along the way. See
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RLO1729
💬
06:45, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Not a big deal but this chestnut has arisen in the article's edits over time, with the article being edited both from "more than" (... two billion copies, for example) to "over" and, more recently, vice versa. There are numerous online discussions of which is "correct" but, from my reading of these sites, the modern consensus seems to be that either can be used (where appropriate). WP:MOS does not take a position but Merriam-Webster would seem to carry some weight. On balance, although I have previously used "more than" in the article myself, I now prefer the more succinct "over", but would welcome other editors' thoughts please. ~ RLO1729 💬 06:48, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi Brogo13, thanks again for your recent copy edits, you have a good eye for detail. I see that numerous full-stops terminating sentences which end with quotations have been moved inside the quotation marks. MOS:INOROUT recommends: "For the most part, ... keep them inside the quotation marks if they apply only to the quoted material and outside if they apply to the whole sentence." and gives some useful examples. I would be grateful if you could revise your recent edits along these lines please. Thanks ~ RLO1729 💬 09:03, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
There are multiple changes from someone who is either being clever or deliberately trolling. It might be best if the article was locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:9EC1:8500:0:0:0:1 ( talk) 20:40, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
This article says that Christie was "a lifelong, "quietly devout", member of the Church of England". Should this article therefore be added to the category "English Anglicans"? Rollo August ( talk) 16:23, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
In 2021, and with the current structure/format of Wikipedia articles today, that section is too lengthy. In addition to this, each topic has their own separate section with its corresponding info, as such, breaking the article into smaller and more navigatable sections would be better. Dcdiehardfan ( talk) 07:22, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Mount Allison University supported by Anthropology and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2012 Q1 term. Further details are available on the course page.
Above message substituted from {{WAP assignment}}
on 14:20, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
On her headstone is the birth date 15th September 1890 2001:8003:2004:8301:E88B:FF83:697E:7DA2 ( talk) 09:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
Hello! I'm new to wikipedia and can't figure out how to edit the search preview text. Maybe someone more experienced can fix this issue? When I Google "Agatha Christie," the Wikipedia article appears as one of the top results. But underneath, where it gives a preview of the article's text, it reads "homophobic Dame Agatha Mary Clarissa Christie..." How do we remove "homophobic" from the search preview? The article itself makes no mention of homophobia. 4f3pdce8 ( talk) 16:00, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
I think the article is looking very good. I see we skate somewhat over the matter of the subject's treatment of racial matters in the section Character stereotypes; we also note, correctly, that the standards for such things have altered enormously in the past century or so. But I do not think we should consider omitting (as we do at present) the original title of her most read work, And Then There Were None. It's a particularly resonant topic at the moment, of course, and one on which scholars have written. Here is how the book article describes it:
The original title of the mystery (Ten Little Niggers) was changed because it was offensive in the United States and some other places. Alison Light, a literary critic and feminist scholar, opined that Christie's original title and the setting on "Nigger Island" (later changed to "Indian Island" and "Soldier Island", variously) were integral to the work. These aspects of the novel, she argued, "could be relied upon automatically to conjure up a thrilling 'otherness', a place where revelations about the 'dark side' of the English would be appropriate." [1] Unlike novels such as Heart of Darkness, "Christie's location is both more domesticated and privatized, taking for granted the construction of racial fears woven into psychic life as early as the nursery. If her story suggests how easy it is to play upon such fears, it is also a reminder of how intimately tied they are to sources of pleasure and enjoyment." [1]
I suggest we include a greatly shortened version of that material into this article. -- 84.64.237.205 ( talk) 00:36, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Christie's original title for And Then There Were None (1939) was Ten Little N******, based on an 1869 minstrel rhyme. This was considered unacceptable in the US as the word n***** was acknowledged as an offensive racial slur. The US title, And Then There Were None, was adopted in the UK in 1985. The original title and the prevalence of the slur in the original text has led modern critics to criticise Christie's attitudes to race. [2] [3]
-- 84.64.237.205 ( talk) 13:38, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
Christie's original title for And Then There Were None (1939) was Ten Little Niggers, based on an 1869 minstrel rhyme. The title was not used in the US as it was considered racially offensive. The US title, And Then There Were None, was adopted in the UK in 1985. Alison Light, a literary critic and feminist scholar, believes that the original title reflects a symbolic darkness integral to the novel. [1] The title and the prevalence of the slur in the original text have led other modern writers, including Elizabeth Marshall and Sadie Stein, to criticise Christie's attitudes to race.[4] [5]
Christie's original title for And Then There Were None (1939) was Ten Little Niggers, based on an 1869 minstrel rhyme. The title was not used in the US as it was considered racially offensive. The US title, And Then There Were None, was adopted in the UK in 1985. Alison Light, a literary critic and feminist scholar, believes that the original title reflects a symbolic darkness integral to the novel. [1] The title and the prevalence of the slur in the original text have led the writers Elizabeth Marshall and Sadie Stein to criticise Christie's attitudes to race. [6] [7]
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I notice there is currently no mention of her original book title in this article, no mention of her using the word in question, and no mention of racist overtones in her work – only anti-Semitism (which gets two paragraphs) and one mention of a stereotyping of Italians and "non-Europeans". There is also no use of the word "racism", "racist", "racial" or "race" (although there is one use of the more vague concept of "ethnicity"). The above-quoted section heading is gone – replaced by the more bland heading "Character stereotypes". There is no explanation of the reference to Italians and non-Europeans. This seems rather questionable to me. The article mentions that someone noticed that some of her works have since been edited "to remove potentially offensive language" (which is "potentially" putting it mildly in my opinion – no one would publish that novel with its original title and cover art today), saying this was reported in an article published this year in The Telegraph. I suspect someone noticed these problems in her work before 2023. Is the current omission of such material generally supported by others? — BarrelProof ( talk) 00:05, 25 May 2023 (UTC)