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I recommend making mention of Perez v. Brownell, 356 U.S. 44 (1958), an earlier Supreme Court ruling which was opposite to Afroyim (and which the Afroyim decision repudiated).
Also mention Vance v. Terrazas, 444 U.S. 252 (1980), which confirmed and expanded upon the Afroyim ruling. The "preponderance of evidence" standard for deciding whether a person's actions had shown an intent to give up US citizenship comes from the Terrazas decision. Vance v. Terrazas probably deserves an article of its own.
In the "Effect" section, mention that the statute calling for loss of US citizenship for voting in a foreign election — struck down by the Afroyim decision — was repealed by Congress in 1978 (Public Law 95-432). The "intent" requirement didn't get explicitly added to the loss-of-citizenship statute until 1986 (Pub.L. 99-653), and that was more directly a result of Terrazas than Afroyim.
Richwales 19:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
The site with one of Afroyim's paintings is a web copy of a book published in 2000 by the Museum of the City of New York. The book misstates the nature of Afroyim v. Rusk by saying the case "hinged on [Afroyim's] ability to convince the Court that he had never voted in Israel". I've been in contact with some people at the museum, and it's currently unclear whether the text on the web site will be corrected or not. In case it never gets fixed, I'm going to add a note to the article warning about the misstatement.
The MCNY person I've been corresponding with also mentioned that Afroyim reportedly told a reporter for the Staten Island Advance (a small weekly) in 1967 that he had not, in fact, ever voted in Israel. It would be interesting to track this point down further -- though it isn't strictly relevant to the court case, since the Supreme Court held that even taking Afroyim's having voted in Israel as a given, that still didn't give the US government a valid reason to revoke his citizenship.
Afroyim's obituary was reportedly published on May 20, 1984 — apparently in the Staten Island Advance.
Richwales 16:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I finally realized, last night, that "Beys Afroyim" is Yiddish for "B. Ephraim" — presumably a derivation of his birth name, Ephraim Bernstein. Richwales 16:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
That should be fixed. -- zenohockey 17:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
The article used to contain a reference to a site ( http://www.mcny.org/collections/painting/pttcat87.htm) which talks about Afroyim's life as a painter. This link was recently deleted by someone who thought that it would be more appropriate in an article about Afroyim himself, rather than about his court case; also, that a comment made on the other site about Afroyim's case was factually incorrect (namely, a claim that the decision hinged on Afroyim's ability to convince the Supreme Court that had in fact never voted in Israel), even though the Wikipedia reference to the site included a disclaimer (which I added last April).
I would propose that this link should be put back in. First, I don't see any problem with a small amount of material about Afroyim (the man) in this article about Afroyim (the court case). Second, and maybe more importantly, I would suggest that if a widely held misconception (such as the idea that Afroyim was able to keep his US citizenship because he really hadn't voted in a foreign election after all) is out there on the net, it's better for Wikipedia to acknowledge the misconception — and say that it's a misconception — than to ignore it and then have people be confused when they run across it themselves.
If we don't put this link back in now (with its accompanying disclaimer), chances are someone will eventually find the site and, unaware of the current discussion, put it back in — probably without a disclaimer! — and we'll be back to where we were before I added the disclaimer in April 2006.
Comments?
— Richwales 21:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not a lawyer, but I just stumbled over Rogers v. Bellei 401 U.S. 815 (1971) which appears to have clarified, limited application of, or partially overturned Afroyim v. Rusk. If I've got that right, shouldn't it be mentioned in this article (or have I missed something which should have been obvious)? -- Boracay Bill ( talk) 05:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Racepacket ( talk) 18:43, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Good changes. Thank you for your prompt attention, and excellent work. Racepacket ( talk) 20:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
I just did a major expansion of this article, with a view toward eventually getting it to the Featured Article level. I'm not done yet.
One change I made probably deserves explanation. Previously, the article said Afroyim v. Rusk "held that a person born or naturalized in the United States cannot be deprived of his or her citizenship involuntarily". In fact, the decision in this case held (more broadly) that no U.S. citizen could have their citizenship taken away involuntarily. The narrowing of the effect of Afroyim came four years later, when the Supreme Court held (in Rogers v. Bellei) that a person born abroad to an American parent did not owe his U.S. citizenship to the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause and could validly lose his citizenship for failing to satisfy a statutory U.S. residence requirement. So, the Afroyim v. Rusk article now properly explains that the case's holding talked about the rights of U.S. citizens in general, and that the limitation came later, in Rogers v. Bellei. I'm just mentioning this so no one thinks I overlooked this point in the course of my rewrite. — Rich wales 05:38, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I am responding to a request on my talkpage that I comment informally on the article, as part of the preparation for a possible FAC submission.
I have read through the article, which for the most part is impressive. I have listed a few minor points that can be easily fixed. The main issue that struck me after my reading was that a lot of the article was not really about Afroyim v. Rusk, but was focussed on the general issue of loss of citizenship. The background subsection "Loss of United States citizenship" seems to contain a good deal of information that does not relate to this specific case, with the result that my head was spinning a bit when I got to the case itself. The hearing before the Supreme Court is dealt with rather briefly; was the 5–4 decision made largely on the basis of Gordon's poor presentation? A lot of the "Subsequent developments" section departs some distance for the Afroyim case, and reads rather as a potted summary history of the American citizenship laws.
The article is interesting, and apart from difficulties arising from too much extraneous detail, quite easy to follow. However, I think you should consider ways in which the focus of the article could be shifted more towards the case in point. A few small points for consideration:
That's all I have for the moment. When I have a bit more time I'll be able to give it a more thorough review. Brianboulton ( talk) 00:38, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
I haven't made any edits to this part but I will raise it here first.
The sources. An obituary is not a WP:RS. Another source comes from ancestry.com which is behind a paywall and I'm familar with WP:PAYWALL but what kind of naturalization record are we talking about? Is it an official document? My wife is a naturalized citizen but I don't think anywhere but the country of her birth(Philippines) is mentioned. Documents do however change. Anyone have any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by WilliamJE ( talk • contribs) 15:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
So in Perez v Brownell a hispanic loses their citizenship but here an Israeli jew got to keep theirs? Knock me down with a feather. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.9.29.190 ( talk) 21:05, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
The introduction doesn't explain *why* the government attempt to revoke citizenship. It just says, this happened, then that happened.
Without repeating or explaining the government's argument, this is a useless history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt me ( talk • contribs) 23:43, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Afroyim v. Rusk article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Afroyim v. Rusk is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 20, 2014. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I recommend making mention of Perez v. Brownell, 356 U.S. 44 (1958), an earlier Supreme Court ruling which was opposite to Afroyim (and which the Afroyim decision repudiated).
Also mention Vance v. Terrazas, 444 U.S. 252 (1980), which confirmed and expanded upon the Afroyim ruling. The "preponderance of evidence" standard for deciding whether a person's actions had shown an intent to give up US citizenship comes from the Terrazas decision. Vance v. Terrazas probably deserves an article of its own.
In the "Effect" section, mention that the statute calling for loss of US citizenship for voting in a foreign election — struck down by the Afroyim decision — was repealed by Congress in 1978 (Public Law 95-432). The "intent" requirement didn't get explicitly added to the loss-of-citizenship statute until 1986 (Pub.L. 99-653), and that was more directly a result of Terrazas than Afroyim.
Richwales 19:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
The site with one of Afroyim's paintings is a web copy of a book published in 2000 by the Museum of the City of New York. The book misstates the nature of Afroyim v. Rusk by saying the case "hinged on [Afroyim's] ability to convince the Court that he had never voted in Israel". I've been in contact with some people at the museum, and it's currently unclear whether the text on the web site will be corrected or not. In case it never gets fixed, I'm going to add a note to the article warning about the misstatement.
The MCNY person I've been corresponding with also mentioned that Afroyim reportedly told a reporter for the Staten Island Advance (a small weekly) in 1967 that he had not, in fact, ever voted in Israel. It would be interesting to track this point down further -- though it isn't strictly relevant to the court case, since the Supreme Court held that even taking Afroyim's having voted in Israel as a given, that still didn't give the US government a valid reason to revoke his citizenship.
Afroyim's obituary was reportedly published on May 20, 1984 — apparently in the Staten Island Advance.
Richwales 16:24, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I finally realized, last night, that "Beys Afroyim" is Yiddish for "B. Ephraim" — presumably a derivation of his birth name, Ephraim Bernstein. Richwales 16:37, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
That should be fixed. -- zenohockey 17:00, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
The article used to contain a reference to a site ( http://www.mcny.org/collections/painting/pttcat87.htm) which talks about Afroyim's life as a painter. This link was recently deleted by someone who thought that it would be more appropriate in an article about Afroyim himself, rather than about his court case; also, that a comment made on the other site about Afroyim's case was factually incorrect (namely, a claim that the decision hinged on Afroyim's ability to convince the Supreme Court that had in fact never voted in Israel), even though the Wikipedia reference to the site included a disclaimer (which I added last April).
I would propose that this link should be put back in. First, I don't see any problem with a small amount of material about Afroyim (the man) in this article about Afroyim (the court case). Second, and maybe more importantly, I would suggest that if a widely held misconception (such as the idea that Afroyim was able to keep his US citizenship because he really hadn't voted in a foreign election after all) is out there on the net, it's better for Wikipedia to acknowledge the misconception — and say that it's a misconception — than to ignore it and then have people be confused when they run across it themselves.
If we don't put this link back in now (with its accompanying disclaimer), chances are someone will eventually find the site and, unaware of the current discussion, put it back in — probably without a disclaimer! — and we'll be back to where we were before I added the disclaimer in April 2006.
Comments?
— Richwales 21:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not a lawyer, but I just stumbled over Rogers v. Bellei 401 U.S. 815 (1971) which appears to have clarified, limited application of, or partially overturned Afroyim v. Rusk. If I've got that right, shouldn't it be mentioned in this article (or have I missed something which should have been obvious)? -- Boracay Bill ( talk) 05:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Racepacket ( talk) 18:43, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Good changes. Thank you for your prompt attention, and excellent work. Racepacket ( talk) 20:11, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
I just did a major expansion of this article, with a view toward eventually getting it to the Featured Article level. I'm not done yet.
One change I made probably deserves explanation. Previously, the article said Afroyim v. Rusk "held that a person born or naturalized in the United States cannot be deprived of his or her citizenship involuntarily". In fact, the decision in this case held (more broadly) that no U.S. citizen could have their citizenship taken away involuntarily. The narrowing of the effect of Afroyim came four years later, when the Supreme Court held (in Rogers v. Bellei) that a person born abroad to an American parent did not owe his U.S. citizenship to the 14th Amendment's citizenship clause and could validly lose his citizenship for failing to satisfy a statutory U.S. residence requirement. So, the Afroyim v. Rusk article now properly explains that the case's holding talked about the rights of U.S. citizens in general, and that the limitation came later, in Rogers v. Bellei. I'm just mentioning this so no one thinks I overlooked this point in the course of my rewrite. — Rich wales 05:38, 5 May 2012 (UTC)
I am responding to a request on my talkpage that I comment informally on the article, as part of the preparation for a possible FAC submission.
I have read through the article, which for the most part is impressive. I have listed a few minor points that can be easily fixed. The main issue that struck me after my reading was that a lot of the article was not really about Afroyim v. Rusk, but was focussed on the general issue of loss of citizenship. The background subsection "Loss of United States citizenship" seems to contain a good deal of information that does not relate to this specific case, with the result that my head was spinning a bit when I got to the case itself. The hearing before the Supreme Court is dealt with rather briefly; was the 5–4 decision made largely on the basis of Gordon's poor presentation? A lot of the "Subsequent developments" section departs some distance for the Afroyim case, and reads rather as a potted summary history of the American citizenship laws.
The article is interesting, and apart from difficulties arising from too much extraneous detail, quite easy to follow. However, I think you should consider ways in which the focus of the article could be shifted more towards the case in point. A few small points for consideration:
That's all I have for the moment. When I have a bit more time I'll be able to give it a more thorough review. Brianboulton ( talk) 00:38, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
I haven't made any edits to this part but I will raise it here first.
The sources. An obituary is not a WP:RS. Another source comes from ancestry.com which is behind a paywall and I'm familar with WP:PAYWALL but what kind of naturalization record are we talking about? Is it an official document? My wife is a naturalized citizen but I don't think anywhere but the country of her birth(Philippines) is mentioned. Documents do however change. Anyone have any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by WilliamJE ( talk • contribs) 15:43, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
So in Perez v Brownell a hispanic loses their citizenship but here an Israeli jew got to keep theirs? Knock me down with a feather. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.9.29.190 ( talk) 21:05, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
The introduction doesn't explain *why* the government attempt to revoke citizenship. It just says, this happened, then that happened.
Without repeating or explaining the government's argument, this is a useless history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matt me ( talk • contribs) 23:43, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:48, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:58, 19 May 2017 (UTC)