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"Aristotle is our earliest source, followed by Herodotus". y'what? Aristotle lived a century AFTER Herodotus, so he can't be an earlier source!
If I have to see one more Classical Greek with blonde hair, someone is going to die. Stop posting Nuremberg Chronicle pics. Wikipedia is not for neo-nazis. Datus ( talk) 00:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that if the ancient African civilizations had been literate or known how to paint they would have portrayed him as black. The important thing is this German picture being a very early one. If you find an earlier one feel free to add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.173.25.9 ( talk) 16:13, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I think we can logically assume that there is little significance in the colour of his hair, particularly one such picture dating to a century for which we cannot yet make any conclusions on matters of such nature. I see no viable reason to delete a classical illustration depicting Aesop. Also, I fail to grasp how the Nazi argument is of any relevance here.-- Agon ( talk) 13:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone else have better information on Aesop? More specifics??
Stuff is all gone, page told me to tell you.
Aesop is legendary, not real; the real author of Aesop's fables is Phaedrus. I'll get around to fixing this in the actual article sometime soon, but I thought I'd go ahead and give the heads up beforehand here. Eric Herboso 09:49, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
That picture is a misrepresentation of Aesop. Enough people ALREADY think he was white.
i think it's a good idea to move most the info under the Aesop's Fables section to the article Aesop's Fables itself. So i'm going to do it. :) -- Plastictv 2 July 2005 14:46 (UTC)
A hash of the material has been made by a well-meaning editor attempting to separate an (apocryphal?) Aesop from Aesop's Fables, There is no Aesop aside from the Fables and there is no single canonic collection of Aesop's Fables, to the surprise of many. I am putting 'merge' suggestions on both articles, so that we can build one strong inclusive introduction to Aesop's Fables as a unified phenomenon. -- Wetman 3 July 2005 00:42 (UTC)
The following, posted by an unregistered user, is unencyclopedic, opinionated and not very relevant but appears to be original. i feel that it belongs more to the talk page. :) -- Plastictv 13:48, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
Aesop Rock is a hip-hop artist who uses Aesop's name to allude to his creative, verbose, imagery soaked lyrics.
Well, was aesop black? YOYOKER 11:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Given that any information about this man seem to be anecdotal at best, wouldn't a modern work of an academic analysing the works be just a good as source as what we've got. The things in the fables and the way they are put seem pretty un hellenic to me in their subjects and style. The way he makes Zeus as a character would indicate that he was from pretty far away. Certainally these tales were 'Exotic' enough to the ears of Planudes for him to picture a 'dark sknned thick lipped' Aesop, and would have also sounded as such to a Greek audience. Clearly, I don't have the eloquotion, knowledge of literature or geography to produce this theoretical article, but things like this are important to African historians and one may well be produced soon, and then we will have enough to comment on to at least acknowledge some people feel this way without it being all weasel words. Courtesy of Gavla 13:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I Think He Was An African Slave With A Greek Master. Just Wondering Though, Why Are Africans Always Used As Slaves? SapientiaSativa 03:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.100 ( talk) 20:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The FACTS: a) He was a slave, hence very possibly could be a black African; b) His given name to some extent does suggest Nubian orgini; c) A the killer fact: His FABLES are in ESSENCE AFRICAN FABLES WITH AFRICAN ANIMALS (lions, giraffes and such...)!!! They have the same structure and construct. Unless you believe Africans in Southern or Western Africa learnt how to tell stories from the Greek... which of course is absurd... d) A lot of his stories are carbon copies of West African stories (i.e. The Hare and the Tortoise is an Ashante fable). e) It is also documented that African slaves often served as storytellers for children in Roman and Greek society.
Only in EUROPOCENTRIC person could ever state that Aesop was most likely white. Most likely he was black. He was a black slave. One thing is definite: His fables were based on the structure of African fables. Maruti 14:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
....
The structure of fables is pretty universal; most cultures have produced something very similar without needing to "learn" it from each other. Do you think the Indian fables predating Aesop came from African sources as well? Some of the individual fables may well be of African origin (must be if they involve giraffes - lions, on the other hand, had once lived in Greece and there were plenty of stories about them and depictions of them). That doesn't make Aesop, if he existed, African. He could have heard them from African fellow-slaves, or they could have been added to the corpus centuries later - we don't have his original collection and it's a matter of educated guesswork which fables were in it. The earliest sources say he was either Thracian or Anatolian; as for using his slave-status as evidence - rubbish. Slaves in the ancient world could be of ANY ethnicity, and in the Archaic period were most likely to be from somewhere nearby, so a Thracian or Anatolian slave is more likely in the Greek areas traditionally associated with Aesop than an African one. (I have to say, I've never understood "Afrocentrism" - it seems to me to be, ironically, curiously Eurocentric. It accepts the Eurocentric idea that it is only the traditional European canon that has cultural value: it just tries to appropriate that value by attributing that canon to Africans. There are plenty of actual African cultural achievements - why not celebrate those instead?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.47.51 ( talk) 14:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Why does anyone care what colour he was? Where he came from (if that's a meaningful question) would be of interest, but the colour of his skin is incidental, unless you judge people by their skin colour. I don't. HiLo48 ( talk) 09:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
The page as it stands on 11 Nov. 2010 is clear about the origin (or earliest evidence) of the tradition that casts Aesop as a black Ethiopian, crediting Planudes in the 13th century, and specifically the Philipott English translation of Planudes from the 1600s, which has Aesop declare, "I am a Negro," and which makes the erroneous etymological link of "Aesop" with Aethiop." But is this actually what appears in the original Greek text of Planudes? Someone proficient in Greek should take a look at the original to see if Philpott made an accurate translation, or embellished on his own (as happens all too often in translations), or simply erred because he was translating at one remove, from a Latin translation of Planudes' Greek. Perhaps it was Philipott in 1687 who actually started the tradition of portraying Aesop as a black Ethiopian, not Planudes a few centuries earlier. Stevensaylor ( talk) 17:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
....
Much mischief regarding this question has been perpetrated by an article titled "Was Aesop a Nubian Kummaji (Folkteller)?" by Richard A. Lobban, Jr., of Rhode Island College (Northeast African Studies 9:1, 2002).
Lobban appears not to understand that there is no text of Aesop; rather, the stories now called "Aesop's fables" come from many sources, gathered in different collections by authors who lived long after the time of a certainly legendary, possibly historical Aesop. Nothing written by Aesop survives (if indeed such works ever existed, and if indeed Aesop himself actually lived); yet Lobban states he will make a "content analysis" of Aesop's "literary legacy," using 1) the 1998 edition of Aesop's Fables by Robert and Olivia Temple and 2) the 1993 Keller and Keating translation of a Spanish collection from the 1400s. (Lobban does not even go back to ancient sources like Babrius or Phaedrus; perhaps he has no Latin or Greek.) By simply counting up mentions of African animals and "artifacts" in a couple of collections of Aesopic fables, he thinks he can demonstrate that Aesop must have come from Africa. He does not consider that it was some of the fables, not Aesop, that originated in Africa, and that these elements entered the body of fables centuries after Aesop lived.
Lobban could have undertaken the painstaking (and monumental) task of determining which of the fables are attested by the earliest Greek sources (and thus might conceivably be linked to Aesop as a source), but that would not have served his purpose, since those earliest fables do not contain the African elements he seeks; nor does his methodology indicate that he would know how to carry out such research. Instead he relies on a modern collection for general readers, as if this book constitutes a text from Aesop's own hand. Lobban displays no understanding of the complexities involved in this sort of research. Nor does he consult or cite the work of those who do. (The first volume of Adrado's History of the Graeco-Latin Fable was published three years before Lobban's article, but Lobban clearly did not consult it.)
Because Lobban makes no attempt to link the person Aesop directly to the fables Lobban purports to "analyze," all the tables he produces with enumerations of African animals amount to nothing more than a lot of irrelevant busy-work.
Lobban does not even seem to know the difference between a primary and a secondary source; he cites the children's writer Roger Lancelyn Green as if he were an actual biographer of Aesop, and he identifies Robert Temple as Aesop's "editor." Lobban does cite Frank Snowden's monumental Blacks in Antiquity, but does not seem to have read it, especially the parts about Aesop, including Snowden's judgment that Planudes' medieval identification of Aesop as Ethiopian is "worthless." Far from saying that it was "not uncommon" for Greeks to have Ethiopian slaves at the time of Aesop, Snowden says quite the opposite (on the very pages Lobban cites!), writing that "Allusions to Ethiopians in Greek literature pointing to actual residence of Ethiopians in Greece proper are few," and that the invasion of Xerxes (centuries after Aesop) may have been the first time that large numbers of Ethiopians were seen by the Greeks.
Lobban begins his article with the admission that "While precise confirmation that Aesop was a Nubian is lacking [a gross understatement], a convincing case for this can be made on the basis of circumstantial evidence about his life and a content analysis of his literary legacy." Circumstantial evidence here seems to mean wishful thinking, as insubstantial as the "literary legacy" of a legendary figure from whom we have no writing. The case Lobban makes is the opposite of convincing. Yet the title of his article alone continues to popularize an idea which the article itself does nothing to justify. Stevensaylor ( talk) 18:35, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
was aesop black?
we do not know for sure
Why Are Africans Always Used As Slaves?
absolutely false,for example many roman emperors were africans...if the account is true it is only a coincidence.
says he "i am negro"?
Not,false.For two reasons.First,in latin world in greek world the word niger(lt) melas (gr) has always a descriptive meaning.It cannot be translated as negro,because negro has also a negative meaning.It should be translated as black,but never as negro.Second, When asked his origin by a prospective new master, Aesop replies, ONLY, "Niger" (lt)"Melas"(gr).He never uses "i am".
Two rows about planudes account. The planudes version uses the word "Melas" (gr), there is not possibility to interpretate it in a different way,it must be translated as black.But another hypothesis is possible.We dont know what sources planudes used,but it is,enough,possible that planudes used latin sources to write his account.So, what happens to account?
master:"where are you from?" esop: "Niger" (a little note,all accounts that i ve seen uses the capital letter for the "N") master: "that is not what i asked,where were you born?" esop:"of my mother " etc etc
Niger in latin it is also a geographic area,(growly niger river area),an area extremely remote for a Byzantine monk who lived in 14th century AD,but also for old greeks and romans.So planudes translated it as a color instead of a geographic area.Even the master ,in the account , doesn't know this area.This is why all latin version uses a capital letter for the "N".The account acquires a logic ,if you interpret that "Niger" as a geographic area.Interpreting it as a color the account becomes illogic.
master:"where are you from?" esop: "white" master: "that is not what i asked,where were you born?" esop:"of my mother " etc etc
do you see?
Aesop it is forced to give him another answer beacause the master doesn t know his origin place....the account is illogic, interpreting it as a color. Obviously,it is only another possible hypothesis,not necessarily true.
Afrocentricity interferes with nearly all discussion of ancient European History on Wikipedia, almost every single person in European history who did something noteworthy is claimed without the slightest evidence to have been black, Socrates; black, Euclid;black, I've even heard people say Caesar was black, it turns out everyone was black in European 2000 years ago. This is clearly a reaction to recent colonialism and slavery, and the surge of cultural insecurity that came with it, we need to stop having these arguments, and validating their ridiculous assumptions. Aesop if he was even an actual person, was, with a very high degree of probability, an ethnic greek, if he wasn't a greek it is more likely that he was from the middle east than sub-saharan africa.
-- Edit9999 ( talk) 14:14, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
What an idiotic debate. There aren't any evidence that Aesop was a black African. The rare Ancient Greek source described him as an ugly slave from Phrygia or Thrace. The only statue of him depict an caucasian man.
For the animals : Lions,leopard, Hyena were present in Greece during the archaic period. Elephant, Hippopotamus and Crocodile were present in North Africa during ancient time. So they were not exotic for the greeks of that period.
Finally : The name Aesop has no link with Ethiopia. It was more a name given to greek fabulist of archaic age. The man Aesop certainly never existed as an individual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.53.42 ( talk) 21:06, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
The section on his life does not mention dates (although the intro mentions something). I realize that this info is highly debated but the section on his life should at least mention the conjecture about when he lived (even it is redundant with the intro). -- Mcorazao 20:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
OK I have never read this book nor have I ever been overtly concerned about the possible race of a possibly fictional person but I must say that the existence of some unusual to ancient Greece animals doesn't say much does it? It's not as if the Greeks were isolationists when it came to incorporating new a)stories b) fables c) deities d)anything else they fancied into their culture really. That doesn't mean that, if he existed, he wasn't black. It just means that we need much more solid "proofs" to arrive to such a conclusion. However I don't really think the relative section of the article needs any editing. 87.203.207.221 ( rnylk, forgot my password, now I'll have to get a new one)
'The roots of fables go back all the way to India, where they were associated with Kasyapa, a mystical sage, and they were subsequently adopted by the early Buddhists.'
But there was no communication between Greece and India or China in the 6th century; this must be false. Unless 'roots' means there were fables in India and China too. Unless this is referenced soon, I'll take it out. Dast 08:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
It starts out:
"Most of what are known as Aesopic fables is a compilation of tales from various sources, many of which originated with authors who lived long before Aesop. Aesop himself is said to have composed many fables, which were passed down by oral tradition. Socrates was thought to have spent his time turning Aesop’s fables into verse while he was in prison. Demetrius Phalereus, another Greek philosopher, made the first collection of these fables around 300 BC. This was later translated into Latin by Phaedrus, a slave himself, around 25 BC. The fables from these two collections..."
WHAT two collections? That paragraph was describing multiple translations of ONE collection. What is the second one? Where did it come from? Was the translation so bad that all the fables changed? If so that should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skintigh ( talk • contribs) 16:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
"The 31st Sura of the Qu'ran refers to a man named Lokman. "There is also a link between Aesop and Islam. The prophet Mohamed mentioned 'Lokman,' said to be the wisest man in the east, in the 31st sura of the Koran. In Arab folklore, Lokman supposedly lived around 1100 B.C.E. and was an Ethiopian. His father, it was said, was descended from the biblical figure Job. Some of his tales may have been adapted by Aesop some five centuries after his death." [Aesop: Biography from Answers.com, [1], accessed September 22, 2008.] Quoted beneath the headings, "Biography: Aesop" and "Thrown from Cliff." Often confused with Aesop, and having lived several centuries earlier, Aesop's fables may be derived from the works of Lokman.
I'm not familiar with this Lokman, but having serious doubts of these claims and seeing the bogus cites have moved me to remove it and place it here. 66.190.29.150 ( talk) 14:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
"why did you remove my explanation of the caption from Aesop? DS (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)"
I want to reopen this discussion - the topics and material in these two articles are hopelessly intermixed. I don't think they should be merged - both are already overlong - but all the material on the fables (which make up most of the article on Aesop) should be moved to Aesop's Fables.
The article on "Aesop" should:
The article on "Aesop's Fables" should:
I made a start by moving a short section about the nature of fables from this article to "Aesop's Fables." 207.68.240.26 ( talk) 16:41, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Those of us chiefly involved in editing Aesop's Fables decided last year that it is more appropriate to use Common Era dates for articles connected with the subject and no one has disagreed on the Talk page of that article since we did so. In that the 'person' of Aesop has been acculturated to a number of continents now, not to mention the fact that those interested in the subject are from a variety of non-Christian cultures, Common Era has been applied to this article too since April 2011, when guidelines were first suggested. Those who have altered these since were not regular editors and they left no reason for the changes. The matter ought to be discussed here in future. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 10:40, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Here's the text of the guideline:
AD and BC are the traditional ways of referring to these eras. CE and BCE are common in some academic and religious writing. No preference is given to either style. Do not use CE or AD unless the date or century would be ambiguous without it (e.g. "The Norman Conquest took place in 1066" not 1066 CE nor AD 1066). On the other hand, "Plotinus was a philosopher living at the end of the 3rd century AD" will avoid unnecessary confusion. Also, in "He did not become king until 55 CE" the era marker makes it clear that "55" does not refer to his age. Alternatively, "He did not become king until the year 55."
BCE and CE or BC and AD are written in upper case, unspaced, without periods (full stops), and separated from the year number by a space or non-breaking space (5 BC, not 5BC).
Use either the BC-AD or the BCE-CE notation, but be consistent within the same article. AD may appear before or after a year (AD 106, 106 AD); the other abbreviations appear after (106 CE, 3700 BCE, 3700 BC).
Do not arbitrarily change from one era style to the other on any given article. Instead, attempt to establish a consensus for change at the talk page. Reasons for the proposed change should be specific to the content of the article; a general preference for one style over another is not a valid reason.
Have I left something out from WP:ERAabout the original way an article started? I don't think so. Dougweller ( talk) 15:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
In support of Dougweller, I should point out that no one has disagreed on the talk page of Aesop's Fables or here since the discussion on editing parameters first started in April last year. The argument advanced is that 'articles [on fables] involve a wide range of dates, and many countries and cultures for which Christian dating is inappropriate'. It is not a question of those who interest themselves in this area 'bullying' others into compliance but of resisting monocultural bullying in return. If postings on two talk pages without response falls short of some WP guideline, then please explain how 'completing a discussion' is to be managed. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 17:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
See above. Some might also wish to take part in the discussion of this kind of issue here
K. Q. Duane K. Q. Duane ( talk) 19:55, 9 January 2015 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by K. Q. Duane ( talk • contribs) 19:21, 9 January 2015 (UTC) -- 72.69.206.33 ( talk) 06:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Monsieur Voltaire ( talk) 06:25, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
There have been too many personal attacks here. Dougweller has pointed out in some of his messages on WP Editor's talk page that a guideline is not a rule, that his interpretation of the guideline in question is POV and that his continued reversions are arbitrary. In my opinion WP Editor's behaviour comes close to edit-warring. I give him due warning here (as I have on his talk page) before asking administrators for their opinion. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 16:18, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I disagree. There has absolutely been a preference for the use of AD (After Death) and BC (Before Christ), as far back as Christ and Christendom has advanced civilization. In fact, the very first time I'd ever seen BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) was in Israel, about 15 years ago. It's bad enough that anti-Christian sentiment and revisionist history has taken hold in certain academic arenas but this underhanded effort to totally REWRITE history is unconscionable and should be condemned at every turn! K. Q. Duane ( talk) 20:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
The guideline suggests that images "should be relevant and increase readers' understanding of the subject matter. In general, images should depict the concepts described in the text of the article." The liberal sprinkling of imaginative representations from the two millennia after his death fail to achieve this; would it be a good idea to remove some of them?-- Old Moonraker ( talk) 06:28, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I can't see why story teller was removed, not every reader will understand fabulist. Dougweller ( talk) 16:43, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Is this the reason "some archaeologists" have identified Aesop as the subject of the contemporary sculpture? No wonder other authorities disagree, or perhaps it's just an personal interpretation by the contributor here. Tagged {{or}}, but maybe there's something in Zanker (1995) that covers it; were there artistic conventions of the time to indicate that the subject was "intellectual"? Bring the reference and prove my misgivings misplaced! -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 21:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I think this article could be improved by having an infobox. What type is most suitable? It could be infobox writter, infobox philosopher, infobox person... ( talk) user:Al83tito 19:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
On 26 January 2014 (i.e. just in the last few weeks), User:Mzilikazi1939 changed this article from the standard form of writing dates in the English language to CE/BCE. As he well knows, this violates WP:MOS, specifically WP:ERA, which requires that any change to an article's date style first be discussed on the talk page and justified with article-specific reasons before consensus is established and the article is then ready to be changed. As is clearly evident to everyone, none of these steps have taken place in this case.
Instead, in the to and fro of the last few weeks as Aesop has gone back and forth between the Queen's English and CE/BCE, Mzilikazi and his friends have claimed that the comments much further up this talk page and dated 21 months ago constitute the necessary discussion and consensus for the change of 26/01/14. Apart from the obvious fact that the article remained in the standard English state for 20 months continuously (May 2012 to January 2014), those comments were never enough to justify the change to CE/BCE even back then. This is of course because, as mentioned earlier, WP:ERA requires that article-specific reasons be given and consensus established. Neither occured then. What we see from 2012 can at best be called a disgrace; it was merely Dougweller and his friends making the laughably fallacious and tendentious claim that because there were more of them, they should automatically get their way without having to justify their case or convince anyone of it. The "discussion" went quiet in its unresolved state and the change from the Queen's English (which the article has used since its creation and the overwhelming majority of the time since then) to CE/BCE therefore didn't proceed, at least until 20 months later when Mzilikazi decided to try again, this time without any attempt to follow the proper procedure.
If Mzilikazi and his friends want to legitimately change Aesop from the established English language abbreviations to CE/BCE then by all means discuss it here and follow the proper process. Stop trying to ram through your illegal change with constant back and forth editing. ( WP Editor 2011 ( talk) 10:18, 16 February 2014 (UTC))
Did Aesop have any sons or daughters of his own? His numerous affairs, despite it being stated that he was uglier than homemade soup, is well-chronicled here, so I was wondering.... -- 67.231.40.21 ( talk) 03:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
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I don't want to get into an edit war, and surely this must have been discussed somewhere, but I can't find it. Why isn't the name spelled Æsop? Dpbsmith (talk) 23:14, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
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"Still problematic is the story by Phaedrus which has Aesop in Athens, telling the fable of the frogs who asked for a king, during the reign of Peisistratos, which occurred decades after the presumed date of Aesop's death."
According to legend, Aesop died in 564. In the article about Peisistratos it says: "Peisistratos (Greek: Πεισίστρατος; died 528/7 BC), Latinized Pisistratus, the son of Hippocrates, was a ruler of ancient Athens during most of the period between 561 and 527 BC.[citation needed] His legacy lies primarily in his instituting the Panathenaic Festival, historically assigned the date of 566 B.C., and the consequent first attempt at producing a definitive version of the Homeric epics."
The dates seem to line up with Aesop's death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.238.94 ( talk) 04:50, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
I've also heard /eɪsɒp/ as another pronunciation, even from my English teacher (Boston area in the U.S.). Has anyone else heard that pronunciation before? EditWorker ( talk) 11:37, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I removed the section about the obscur question of Aesop origin. This section has never been a point of discussion among scholars since we don't have any description of this so called Aesop (apart the source claiming an origin in Phrygia or in Thrace). As a result, this paragraphe hasn't place in wikipedia. Wikipedia is NOT an afrocentrist, spiritist, fabulist,... blog but an encyclopaedia which had to provide its readers with valuable informations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.53.42 ( talk) 21:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Sorry but I don't see the interest of a section about the appearance of Aesop.
1. Greek writers located his birthplace in Thrace or in Lydia. There aren't any mention of a supposed Ethiopian land into ancient greek writings 2. Greek writers described him as an ugly hunback. His skin Color has never been mentioned 3. Lion, Hyena and Leopard existed in continental Greece until the 1th century BC, Aesop is supposed to have lived around the end of 600 BC. There were several elephants in North Africa (Maghreb, Libya)
So yes I remove again this section because it can give to the readers false assumption about Aesop identity (if he existed, probably not) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gelias01 ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Scholars? The first rule when you write an academic article is to have valid sources. If none of them are pertinent, your entire article become irrelevant — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gelias01 ( talk • contribs) 08:49, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Ive seen some reference to this, is it a thing or just an occasional typo that made it to the covers of some books? Mrrealtime ( talk) 17:39, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Rather unfortunate for this painstakingly bound edition. Are we sure its not an esoteric accepted spelling? https://www.instagram.com/p/CIV0IzGn6Nl/?igshid=7tlqm7032uy5 Mrrealtime ( talk) 22:32, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Looks like you are correct, and the link I saw has been taken down Mrrealtime ( talk) 12:59, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
In all likelihood the possibility of African origin was actually posited by the fact that Memnon of Ethiopia had a friend by the same name in the Trojan War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabbycatlove ( talk • contribs) 08:56, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The story of Aesop and Rhodope belonging to one slave owner was not invented in XVIII century. Herodotus, in "An Account of Egypt" talks about it. If Rhodope is mentioned, it may make sense to add that source. Vlad Patryshev ( talk) 16:20, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Please add back Aesop's ancient Greek ethnicity as his article always correctly mentioned in the first sentence. It was edited out by an account which has now been blocked for sockpuppeting. HighDunker ( talk) 03:17, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
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"Aristotle is our earliest source, followed by Herodotus". y'what? Aristotle lived a century AFTER Herodotus, so he can't be an earlier source!
If I have to see one more Classical Greek with blonde hair, someone is going to die. Stop posting Nuremberg Chronicle pics. Wikipedia is not for neo-nazis. Datus ( talk) 00:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that if the ancient African civilizations had been literate or known how to paint they would have portrayed him as black. The important thing is this German picture being a very early one. If you find an earlier one feel free to add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.173.25.9 ( talk) 16:13, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
I think we can logically assume that there is little significance in the colour of his hair, particularly one such picture dating to a century for which we cannot yet make any conclusions on matters of such nature. I see no viable reason to delete a classical illustration depicting Aesop. Also, I fail to grasp how the Nazi argument is of any relevance here.-- Agon ( talk) 13:05, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone else have better information on Aesop? More specifics??
Stuff is all gone, page told me to tell you.
Aesop is legendary, not real; the real author of Aesop's fables is Phaedrus. I'll get around to fixing this in the actual article sometime soon, but I thought I'd go ahead and give the heads up beforehand here. Eric Herboso 09:49, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
That picture is a misrepresentation of Aesop. Enough people ALREADY think he was white.
i think it's a good idea to move most the info under the Aesop's Fables section to the article Aesop's Fables itself. So i'm going to do it. :) -- Plastictv 2 July 2005 14:46 (UTC)
A hash of the material has been made by a well-meaning editor attempting to separate an (apocryphal?) Aesop from Aesop's Fables, There is no Aesop aside from the Fables and there is no single canonic collection of Aesop's Fables, to the surprise of many. I am putting 'merge' suggestions on both articles, so that we can build one strong inclusive introduction to Aesop's Fables as a unified phenomenon. -- Wetman 3 July 2005 00:42 (UTC)
The following, posted by an unregistered user, is unencyclopedic, opinionated and not very relevant but appears to be original. i feel that it belongs more to the talk page. :) -- Plastictv 13:48, 13 August 2005 (UTC)
Aesop Rock is a hip-hop artist who uses Aesop's name to allude to his creative, verbose, imagery soaked lyrics.
Well, was aesop black? YOYOKER 11:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Given that any information about this man seem to be anecdotal at best, wouldn't a modern work of an academic analysing the works be just a good as source as what we've got. The things in the fables and the way they are put seem pretty un hellenic to me in their subjects and style. The way he makes Zeus as a character would indicate that he was from pretty far away. Certainally these tales were 'Exotic' enough to the ears of Planudes for him to picture a 'dark sknned thick lipped' Aesop, and would have also sounded as such to a Greek audience. Clearly, I don't have the eloquotion, knowledge of literature or geography to produce this theoretical article, but things like this are important to African historians and one may well be produced soon, and then we will have enough to comment on to at least acknowledge some people feel this way without it being all weasel words. Courtesy of Gavla 13:33, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I Think He Was An African Slave With A Greek Master. Just Wondering Though, Why Are Africans Always Used As Slaves? SapientiaSativa 03:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.100 ( talk) 20:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
The FACTS: a) He was a slave, hence very possibly could be a black African; b) His given name to some extent does suggest Nubian orgini; c) A the killer fact: His FABLES are in ESSENCE AFRICAN FABLES WITH AFRICAN ANIMALS (lions, giraffes and such...)!!! They have the same structure and construct. Unless you believe Africans in Southern or Western Africa learnt how to tell stories from the Greek... which of course is absurd... d) A lot of his stories are carbon copies of West African stories (i.e. The Hare and the Tortoise is an Ashante fable). e) It is also documented that African slaves often served as storytellers for children in Roman and Greek society.
Only in EUROPOCENTRIC person could ever state that Aesop was most likely white. Most likely he was black. He was a black slave. One thing is definite: His fables were based on the structure of African fables. Maruti 14:24, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
....
The structure of fables is pretty universal; most cultures have produced something very similar without needing to "learn" it from each other. Do you think the Indian fables predating Aesop came from African sources as well? Some of the individual fables may well be of African origin (must be if they involve giraffes - lions, on the other hand, had once lived in Greece and there were plenty of stories about them and depictions of them). That doesn't make Aesop, if he existed, African. He could have heard them from African fellow-slaves, or they could have been added to the corpus centuries later - we don't have his original collection and it's a matter of educated guesswork which fables were in it. The earliest sources say he was either Thracian or Anatolian; as for using his slave-status as evidence - rubbish. Slaves in the ancient world could be of ANY ethnicity, and in the Archaic period were most likely to be from somewhere nearby, so a Thracian or Anatolian slave is more likely in the Greek areas traditionally associated with Aesop than an African one. (I have to say, I've never understood "Afrocentrism" - it seems to me to be, ironically, curiously Eurocentric. It accepts the Eurocentric idea that it is only the traditional European canon that has cultural value: it just tries to appropriate that value by attributing that canon to Africans. There are plenty of actual African cultural achievements - why not celebrate those instead?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.47.51 ( talk) 14:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Why does anyone care what colour he was? Where he came from (if that's a meaningful question) would be of interest, but the colour of his skin is incidental, unless you judge people by their skin colour. I don't. HiLo48 ( talk) 09:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
The page as it stands on 11 Nov. 2010 is clear about the origin (or earliest evidence) of the tradition that casts Aesop as a black Ethiopian, crediting Planudes in the 13th century, and specifically the Philipott English translation of Planudes from the 1600s, which has Aesop declare, "I am a Negro," and which makes the erroneous etymological link of "Aesop" with Aethiop." But is this actually what appears in the original Greek text of Planudes? Someone proficient in Greek should take a look at the original to see if Philpott made an accurate translation, or embellished on his own (as happens all too often in translations), or simply erred because he was translating at one remove, from a Latin translation of Planudes' Greek. Perhaps it was Philipott in 1687 who actually started the tradition of portraying Aesop as a black Ethiopian, not Planudes a few centuries earlier. Stevensaylor ( talk) 17:04, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
....
Much mischief regarding this question has been perpetrated by an article titled "Was Aesop a Nubian Kummaji (Folkteller)?" by Richard A. Lobban, Jr., of Rhode Island College (Northeast African Studies 9:1, 2002).
Lobban appears not to understand that there is no text of Aesop; rather, the stories now called "Aesop's fables" come from many sources, gathered in different collections by authors who lived long after the time of a certainly legendary, possibly historical Aesop. Nothing written by Aesop survives (if indeed such works ever existed, and if indeed Aesop himself actually lived); yet Lobban states he will make a "content analysis" of Aesop's "literary legacy," using 1) the 1998 edition of Aesop's Fables by Robert and Olivia Temple and 2) the 1993 Keller and Keating translation of a Spanish collection from the 1400s. (Lobban does not even go back to ancient sources like Babrius or Phaedrus; perhaps he has no Latin or Greek.) By simply counting up mentions of African animals and "artifacts" in a couple of collections of Aesopic fables, he thinks he can demonstrate that Aesop must have come from Africa. He does not consider that it was some of the fables, not Aesop, that originated in Africa, and that these elements entered the body of fables centuries after Aesop lived.
Lobban could have undertaken the painstaking (and monumental) task of determining which of the fables are attested by the earliest Greek sources (and thus might conceivably be linked to Aesop as a source), but that would not have served his purpose, since those earliest fables do not contain the African elements he seeks; nor does his methodology indicate that he would know how to carry out such research. Instead he relies on a modern collection for general readers, as if this book constitutes a text from Aesop's own hand. Lobban displays no understanding of the complexities involved in this sort of research. Nor does he consult or cite the work of those who do. (The first volume of Adrado's History of the Graeco-Latin Fable was published three years before Lobban's article, but Lobban clearly did not consult it.)
Because Lobban makes no attempt to link the person Aesop directly to the fables Lobban purports to "analyze," all the tables he produces with enumerations of African animals amount to nothing more than a lot of irrelevant busy-work.
Lobban does not even seem to know the difference between a primary and a secondary source; he cites the children's writer Roger Lancelyn Green as if he were an actual biographer of Aesop, and he identifies Robert Temple as Aesop's "editor." Lobban does cite Frank Snowden's monumental Blacks in Antiquity, but does not seem to have read it, especially the parts about Aesop, including Snowden's judgment that Planudes' medieval identification of Aesop as Ethiopian is "worthless." Far from saying that it was "not uncommon" for Greeks to have Ethiopian slaves at the time of Aesop, Snowden says quite the opposite (on the very pages Lobban cites!), writing that "Allusions to Ethiopians in Greek literature pointing to actual residence of Ethiopians in Greece proper are few," and that the invasion of Xerxes (centuries after Aesop) may have been the first time that large numbers of Ethiopians were seen by the Greeks.
Lobban begins his article with the admission that "While precise confirmation that Aesop was a Nubian is lacking [a gross understatement], a convincing case for this can be made on the basis of circumstantial evidence about his life and a content analysis of his literary legacy." Circumstantial evidence here seems to mean wishful thinking, as insubstantial as the "literary legacy" of a legendary figure from whom we have no writing. The case Lobban makes is the opposite of convincing. Yet the title of his article alone continues to popularize an idea which the article itself does nothing to justify. Stevensaylor ( talk) 18:35, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
was aesop black?
we do not know for sure
Why Are Africans Always Used As Slaves?
absolutely false,for example many roman emperors were africans...if the account is true it is only a coincidence.
says he "i am negro"?
Not,false.For two reasons.First,in latin world in greek world the word niger(lt) melas (gr) has always a descriptive meaning.It cannot be translated as negro,because negro has also a negative meaning.It should be translated as black,but never as negro.Second, When asked his origin by a prospective new master, Aesop replies, ONLY, "Niger" (lt)"Melas"(gr).He never uses "i am".
Two rows about planudes account. The planudes version uses the word "Melas" (gr), there is not possibility to interpretate it in a different way,it must be translated as black.But another hypothesis is possible.We dont know what sources planudes used,but it is,enough,possible that planudes used latin sources to write his account.So, what happens to account?
master:"where are you from?" esop: "Niger" (a little note,all accounts that i ve seen uses the capital letter for the "N") master: "that is not what i asked,where were you born?" esop:"of my mother " etc etc
Niger in latin it is also a geographic area,(growly niger river area),an area extremely remote for a Byzantine monk who lived in 14th century AD,but also for old greeks and romans.So planudes translated it as a color instead of a geographic area.Even the master ,in the account , doesn't know this area.This is why all latin version uses a capital letter for the "N".The account acquires a logic ,if you interpret that "Niger" as a geographic area.Interpreting it as a color the account becomes illogic.
master:"where are you from?" esop: "white" master: "that is not what i asked,where were you born?" esop:"of my mother " etc etc
do you see?
Aesop it is forced to give him another answer beacause the master doesn t know his origin place....the account is illogic, interpreting it as a color. Obviously,it is only another possible hypothesis,not necessarily true.
Afrocentricity interferes with nearly all discussion of ancient European History on Wikipedia, almost every single person in European history who did something noteworthy is claimed without the slightest evidence to have been black, Socrates; black, Euclid;black, I've even heard people say Caesar was black, it turns out everyone was black in European 2000 years ago. This is clearly a reaction to recent colonialism and slavery, and the surge of cultural insecurity that came with it, we need to stop having these arguments, and validating their ridiculous assumptions. Aesop if he was even an actual person, was, with a very high degree of probability, an ethnic greek, if he wasn't a greek it is more likely that he was from the middle east than sub-saharan africa.
-- Edit9999 ( talk) 14:14, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
What an idiotic debate. There aren't any evidence that Aesop was a black African. The rare Ancient Greek source described him as an ugly slave from Phrygia or Thrace. The only statue of him depict an caucasian man.
For the animals : Lions,leopard, Hyena were present in Greece during the archaic period. Elephant, Hippopotamus and Crocodile were present in North Africa during ancient time. So they were not exotic for the greeks of that period.
Finally : The name Aesop has no link with Ethiopia. It was more a name given to greek fabulist of archaic age. The man Aesop certainly never existed as an individual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.53.42 ( talk) 21:06, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
The section on his life does not mention dates (although the intro mentions something). I realize that this info is highly debated but the section on his life should at least mention the conjecture about when he lived (even it is redundant with the intro). -- Mcorazao 20:10, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
OK I have never read this book nor have I ever been overtly concerned about the possible race of a possibly fictional person but I must say that the existence of some unusual to ancient Greece animals doesn't say much does it? It's not as if the Greeks were isolationists when it came to incorporating new a)stories b) fables c) deities d)anything else they fancied into their culture really. That doesn't mean that, if he existed, he wasn't black. It just means that we need much more solid "proofs" to arrive to such a conclusion. However I don't really think the relative section of the article needs any editing. 87.203.207.221 ( rnylk, forgot my password, now I'll have to get a new one)
'The roots of fables go back all the way to India, where they were associated with Kasyapa, a mystical sage, and they were subsequently adopted by the early Buddhists.'
But there was no communication between Greece and India or China in the 6th century; this must be false. Unless 'roots' means there were fables in India and China too. Unless this is referenced soon, I'll take it out. Dast 08:37, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
It starts out:
"Most of what are known as Aesopic fables is a compilation of tales from various sources, many of which originated with authors who lived long before Aesop. Aesop himself is said to have composed many fables, which were passed down by oral tradition. Socrates was thought to have spent his time turning Aesop’s fables into verse while he was in prison. Demetrius Phalereus, another Greek philosopher, made the first collection of these fables around 300 BC. This was later translated into Latin by Phaedrus, a slave himself, around 25 BC. The fables from these two collections..."
WHAT two collections? That paragraph was describing multiple translations of ONE collection. What is the second one? Where did it come from? Was the translation so bad that all the fables changed? If so that should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skintigh ( talk • contribs) 16:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
"The 31st Sura of the Qu'ran refers to a man named Lokman. "There is also a link between Aesop and Islam. The prophet Mohamed mentioned 'Lokman,' said to be the wisest man in the east, in the 31st sura of the Koran. In Arab folklore, Lokman supposedly lived around 1100 B.C.E. and was an Ethiopian. His father, it was said, was descended from the biblical figure Job. Some of his tales may have been adapted by Aesop some five centuries after his death." [Aesop: Biography from Answers.com, [1], accessed September 22, 2008.] Quoted beneath the headings, "Biography: Aesop" and "Thrown from Cliff." Often confused with Aesop, and having lived several centuries earlier, Aesop's fables may be derived from the works of Lokman.
I'm not familiar with this Lokman, but having serious doubts of these claims and seeing the bogus cites have moved me to remove it and place it here. 66.190.29.150 ( talk) 14:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
"why did you remove my explanation of the caption from Aesop? DS (talk) 16:41, 7 December 2009 (UTC)"
I want to reopen this discussion - the topics and material in these two articles are hopelessly intermixed. I don't think they should be merged - both are already overlong - but all the material on the fables (which make up most of the article on Aesop) should be moved to Aesop's Fables.
The article on "Aesop" should:
The article on "Aesop's Fables" should:
I made a start by moving a short section about the nature of fables from this article to "Aesop's Fables." 207.68.240.26 ( talk) 16:41, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Those of us chiefly involved in editing Aesop's Fables decided last year that it is more appropriate to use Common Era dates for articles connected with the subject and no one has disagreed on the Talk page of that article since we did so. In that the 'person' of Aesop has been acculturated to a number of continents now, not to mention the fact that those interested in the subject are from a variety of non-Christian cultures, Common Era has been applied to this article too since April 2011, when guidelines were first suggested. Those who have altered these since were not regular editors and they left no reason for the changes. The matter ought to be discussed here in future. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 10:40, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Here's the text of the guideline:
AD and BC are the traditional ways of referring to these eras. CE and BCE are common in some academic and religious writing. No preference is given to either style. Do not use CE or AD unless the date or century would be ambiguous without it (e.g. "The Norman Conquest took place in 1066" not 1066 CE nor AD 1066). On the other hand, "Plotinus was a philosopher living at the end of the 3rd century AD" will avoid unnecessary confusion. Also, in "He did not become king until 55 CE" the era marker makes it clear that "55" does not refer to his age. Alternatively, "He did not become king until the year 55."
BCE and CE or BC and AD are written in upper case, unspaced, without periods (full stops), and separated from the year number by a space or non-breaking space (5 BC, not 5BC).
Use either the BC-AD or the BCE-CE notation, but be consistent within the same article. AD may appear before or after a year (AD 106, 106 AD); the other abbreviations appear after (106 CE, 3700 BCE, 3700 BC).
Do not arbitrarily change from one era style to the other on any given article. Instead, attempt to establish a consensus for change at the talk page. Reasons for the proposed change should be specific to the content of the article; a general preference for one style over another is not a valid reason.
Have I left something out from WP:ERAabout the original way an article started? I don't think so. Dougweller ( talk) 15:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
In support of Dougweller, I should point out that no one has disagreed on the talk page of Aesop's Fables or here since the discussion on editing parameters first started in April last year. The argument advanced is that 'articles [on fables] involve a wide range of dates, and many countries and cultures for which Christian dating is inappropriate'. It is not a question of those who interest themselves in this area 'bullying' others into compliance but of resisting monocultural bullying in return. If postings on two talk pages without response falls short of some WP guideline, then please explain how 'completing a discussion' is to be managed. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 17:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
See above. Some might also wish to take part in the discussion of this kind of issue here
K. Q. Duane K. Q. Duane ( talk) 19:55, 9 January 2015 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by K. Q. Duane ( talk • contribs) 19:21, 9 January 2015 (UTC) -- 72.69.206.33 ( talk) 06:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC) Monsieur Voltaire ( talk) 06:25, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
There have been too many personal attacks here. Dougweller has pointed out in some of his messages on WP Editor's talk page that a guideline is not a rule, that his interpretation of the guideline in question is POV and that his continued reversions are arbitrary. In my opinion WP Editor's behaviour comes close to edit-warring. I give him due warning here (as I have on his talk page) before asking administrators for their opinion. Mzilikazi1939 ( talk) 16:18, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I disagree. There has absolutely been a preference for the use of AD (After Death) and BC (Before Christ), as far back as Christ and Christendom has advanced civilization. In fact, the very first time I'd ever seen BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) was in Israel, about 15 years ago. It's bad enough that anti-Christian sentiment and revisionist history has taken hold in certain academic arenas but this underhanded effort to totally REWRITE history is unconscionable and should be condemned at every turn! K. Q. Duane ( talk) 20:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
The guideline suggests that images "should be relevant and increase readers' understanding of the subject matter. In general, images should depict the concepts described in the text of the article." The liberal sprinkling of imaginative representations from the two millennia after his death fail to achieve this; would it be a good idea to remove some of them?-- Old Moonraker ( talk) 06:28, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I can't see why story teller was removed, not every reader will understand fabulist. Dougweller ( talk) 16:43, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Is this the reason "some archaeologists" have identified Aesop as the subject of the contemporary sculpture? No wonder other authorities disagree, or perhaps it's just an personal interpretation by the contributor here. Tagged {{or}}, but maybe there's something in Zanker (1995) that covers it; were there artistic conventions of the time to indicate that the subject was "intellectual"? Bring the reference and prove my misgivings misplaced! -- Old Moonraker ( talk) 21:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I think this article could be improved by having an infobox. What type is most suitable? It could be infobox writter, infobox philosopher, infobox person... ( talk) user:Al83tito 19:00, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
On 26 January 2014 (i.e. just in the last few weeks), User:Mzilikazi1939 changed this article from the standard form of writing dates in the English language to CE/BCE. As he well knows, this violates WP:MOS, specifically WP:ERA, which requires that any change to an article's date style first be discussed on the talk page and justified with article-specific reasons before consensus is established and the article is then ready to be changed. As is clearly evident to everyone, none of these steps have taken place in this case.
Instead, in the to and fro of the last few weeks as Aesop has gone back and forth between the Queen's English and CE/BCE, Mzilikazi and his friends have claimed that the comments much further up this talk page and dated 21 months ago constitute the necessary discussion and consensus for the change of 26/01/14. Apart from the obvious fact that the article remained in the standard English state for 20 months continuously (May 2012 to January 2014), those comments were never enough to justify the change to CE/BCE even back then. This is of course because, as mentioned earlier, WP:ERA requires that article-specific reasons be given and consensus established. Neither occured then. What we see from 2012 can at best be called a disgrace; it was merely Dougweller and his friends making the laughably fallacious and tendentious claim that because there were more of them, they should automatically get their way without having to justify their case or convince anyone of it. The "discussion" went quiet in its unresolved state and the change from the Queen's English (which the article has used since its creation and the overwhelming majority of the time since then) to CE/BCE therefore didn't proceed, at least until 20 months later when Mzilikazi decided to try again, this time without any attempt to follow the proper procedure.
If Mzilikazi and his friends want to legitimately change Aesop from the established English language abbreviations to CE/BCE then by all means discuss it here and follow the proper process. Stop trying to ram through your illegal change with constant back and forth editing. ( WP Editor 2011 ( talk) 10:18, 16 February 2014 (UTC))
Did Aesop have any sons or daughters of his own? His numerous affairs, despite it being stated that he was uglier than homemade soup, is well-chronicled here, so I was wondering.... -- 67.231.40.21 ( talk) 03:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
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I don't want to get into an edit war, and surely this must have been discussed somewhere, but I can't find it. Why isn't the name spelled Æsop? Dpbsmith (talk) 23:14, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
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"Still problematic is the story by Phaedrus which has Aesop in Athens, telling the fable of the frogs who asked for a king, during the reign of Peisistratos, which occurred decades after the presumed date of Aesop's death."
According to legend, Aesop died in 564. In the article about Peisistratos it says: "Peisistratos (Greek: Πεισίστρατος; died 528/7 BC), Latinized Pisistratus, the son of Hippocrates, was a ruler of ancient Athens during most of the period between 561 and 527 BC.[citation needed] His legacy lies primarily in his instituting the Panathenaic Festival, historically assigned the date of 566 B.C., and the consequent first attempt at producing a definitive version of the Homeric epics."
The dates seem to line up with Aesop's death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.35.238.94 ( talk) 04:50, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
I've also heard /eɪsɒp/ as another pronunciation, even from my English teacher (Boston area in the U.S.). Has anyone else heard that pronunciation before? EditWorker ( talk) 11:37, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
I removed the section about the obscur question of Aesop origin. This section has never been a point of discussion among scholars since we don't have any description of this so called Aesop (apart the source claiming an origin in Phrygia or in Thrace). As a result, this paragraphe hasn't place in wikipedia. Wikipedia is NOT an afrocentrist, spiritist, fabulist,... blog but an encyclopaedia which had to provide its readers with valuable informations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.53.42 ( talk) 21:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
Sorry but I don't see the interest of a section about the appearance of Aesop.
1. Greek writers located his birthplace in Thrace or in Lydia. There aren't any mention of a supposed Ethiopian land into ancient greek writings 2. Greek writers described him as an ugly hunback. His skin Color has never been mentioned 3. Lion, Hyena and Leopard existed in continental Greece until the 1th century BC, Aesop is supposed to have lived around the end of 600 BC. There were several elephants in North Africa (Maghreb, Libya)
So yes I remove again this section because it can give to the readers false assumption about Aesop identity (if he existed, probably not) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gelias01 ( talk • contribs) 22:11, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
Scholars? The first rule when you write an academic article is to have valid sources. If none of them are pertinent, your entire article become irrelevant — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gelias01 ( talk • contribs) 08:49, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
Ive seen some reference to this, is it a thing or just an occasional typo that made it to the covers of some books? Mrrealtime ( talk) 17:39, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Rather unfortunate for this painstakingly bound edition. Are we sure its not an esoteric accepted spelling? https://www.instagram.com/p/CIV0IzGn6Nl/?igshid=7tlqm7032uy5 Mrrealtime ( talk) 22:32, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
Looks like you are correct, and the link I saw has been taken down Mrrealtime ( talk) 12:59, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
In all likelihood the possibility of African origin was actually posited by the fact that Memnon of Ethiopia had a friend by the same name in the Trojan War. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabbycatlove ( talk • contribs) 08:56, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
The story of Aesop and Rhodope belonging to one slave owner was not invented in XVIII century. Herodotus, in "An Account of Egypt" talks about it. If Rhodope is mentioned, it may make sense to add that source. Vlad Patryshev ( talk) 16:20, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Please add back Aesop's ancient Greek ethnicity as his article always correctly mentioned in the first sentence. It was edited out by an account which has now been blocked for sockpuppeting. HighDunker ( talk) 03:17, 2 January 2024 (UTC)