This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
There is a torjan in the following links:
I clicked on it and Norton automatically removed it from my computer.
The links are found in this sentence under the subtopic, Fandom:
"One of the earliest and most notorious of these rumors was put out by Ben Lansing [1] who unsuccessfully tried to retract it later [2] after his "authoritative" article had snowballed into a big debate."
-- Hobbes3k 04:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm fairly sure that the spirit in the church was actually supposed to be a full fledged conversation between cloud and Aerith, that was not put in due to there not being enough time. I would just go and change it, but I thought i should put something here. Actually i will change it , if anyone has any objections, feel free to change it back and I'll leave it alone. Vespertilio 4 October 2005
Just so everybody knows, you can see Aerith in the Church anytime RIGHT AFTER resucing her from the Turks on disk one. If you backtrack to the church, you will have Cloud and Aerith in your party, and the Spirit will be right their. This is all on Disk one. JQF 16:37, 5 October 2005
I originally added this bit to the article:
I think I'll now remove it (and maybe put it in Wikibooks later, when and if it gets Really Extensive which it isn't now), because I think I went a little bit fancruftaceous here. Changing small details like this are not really noteworthy; A lot of games get a lot of changes, sometimes far more dramatic, during the development. This was probably just one detail that the developers bounced around until settling it where it is in the final product, and as such I don't think it's not worth mentioning. -- Wwwwolf 10:15, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
== HOLY did noy cause Geostigma==This is an erroneous statement. jenovas cells caused Geostigma not holy
Um... there's a whole bunch of External Links here! Should these go, as most are to fansites? I've often viewed these as linkspam unless the fan site is really notable and extensive (like ff7citadel.com, in case of the main FF7 article). It started to go this way in the Tifa article, but I just added note along the lines of "hey, the Offoapropated Fanlisting has a nice list of fansites, take a look there, WP:NOT a linkfarm" as a comment. The problem is, in Aerith's case, there isn't a nice list of fansites anywhere - We could just say "well, just look at Aerith fanlisting", but unlike in Tifa's case, they don't have a nice list of fansites, just a list of fans in general. So does anyone have any other ideas? I hesitate to do anything about this right now. -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 18:59, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Just so there won't be a war here, I'll put it in the discussions. It does NOT matter than most people don't have a musical ear -- the piece is SIMILAR, yes, but it's not in any way "based on" Aria De Mezzo. It's not really relevent (at least in my opinion) or at the very least it should be clear that they they are merely similar. Melodia Chaconne 17:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I disagree --- Aerith's Theme is so similar that piece that you can actually sing portions of it along with it.
Agent0042
19:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
So what if they are, Uematsu-san created them both. Many artists redux their works for use in other things, which in effect creates a completely new work (depending on certain elements of course). I don't see why this is an issue, personally. Eluchil 11:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Is this going to keep going? I was going to just give up on it, but somebody put it back up and now you've removed it again, Melodia?
Agent0042
22:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Do you think it's worth it putting a KH2 spoiler tag for one word?[ [1]] Zero1328 02:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't understand. What's the spoiler in question? Agent0042 06:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, I'm pretty sure that Tifa was never mentioned to be in the game, that's why. Zero1328 11:11, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Why do each of the FFVII characters have "(In Final Fantasy VII)" next to their age in their infoboxes? It doesnt make sense to me and Aerith's infobox has it. -- Psi edit 00:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Ok I just realized. Couldnt we just put "Present age" for all the characters. Psi edit 02:57, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Dirge of Cerberus is the latest setting for the FFVII world. Taking place 3 years after the first game. -- Psi edit 01:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out that the content under "Personality" has been lifted almost word-for-word from [2]. I know that it was the Wikipedia editor that did the lifting, because I am the original author. I don't particularly mind, because my opinion gets more airtime this way, and obviously there's no way to prove that I was the original author, nor am I going to bother trying, but I feel like pointing it out in case people believe that I plagarised my work. (- Mary) -- 80.4.205.50 00:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I've been trying to edit the Romantic Issues section of the article to reflect Aerith's actual feelings for Cloud, but it keeps getting changed back. As of right now, it's giving misleading information. This is what it says at the moment:
In
Benny Matsuyama's novel Maiden Who Travels The Planet, some fans interpret the following quote below as that most of what she saw in Cloud had been emulated from Zack, believing that Aerith loved Cloud because of the striking similarities between the two.
"But she couldn't figure out the truth. Her thoughts just went in circles. Aerith delved into her memories again. Memories that showed Cloud's individuality. The way he walked. She remembered all his actions one by one...
Most of those thoughts merged into the Sea of Mako and awakened a character. The character recognized the image she recalled and he [Zack] woke up."
At the same time, however, she mentions that both Cloud and Zack are different people. Also, it has been revealed that she truly loved Cloud for who he is and more than her first love, as she claims early in the novella.
"At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar, and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love."
This is simply wrong. This is like quoting the flashback sequence in Mideel first, and then later quoting Sephiroth and Hojo's lines at the Northern Crater and trying to claim that Cloud's not a real person. Aerith never got to know Cloud for who he was order to love him for who he was. Maiden Who Travels the Planet never says that she loved him for who he was. It merely says that she loved him more than she loved Zack, and that's it. This was also during Chapter 1. In Chapter 5 when she begins thinking about all the things about Cloud that she liked -- ironically, the things that she thought displayed his individuality -- it caused Zack to awaken, because those things were characteristic of him.
It is not "at the same time" that she mentions that they are different people. It is after Zack awakens, with the fact that the things about Cloud that she remembered being the characteristics he had adopted from Zack. For that matter, the only things she brings up that express a difference between the two are that Cloud's simplistic, as well as awkward around girls (some aspects of his personality), his appearance (though he still moved and walked like Zack), and his voice. Not exactly a huge list.
As the article's worded, it is highly misleading, and I can only conclude that it is being worded in that manner intentionally. This is an encyclopedia, which should be reporting facts, not twisting statements around across several chapters to make things look differently than they are.
Maiden even goes so far as to have Aerith point out that she herself could not be the one to free Cloud's mind in the Lifestream because she simply didn't know the real him. She didn't know the truth about his past. Only Tifa could do it, because only Tifa was there. It's pretty hard to make an argument that Aerith loved him for the real him when she never met him and only met the nigh-complete imitation of Zack that he deluded himself into being, and when she even admits that she couldn't help him because she didn't know him. Hell, after Tifa helps him reconstruct his mind, it even says that it was only then that she knew the real Cloud:
"She was happy. She was happy that she now knew the real Cloud and was able to watch over him, even though it was just for a short while."
So I'm going to change it back again, and I ask that anyone who deems it appropriate or necessary to alter it after that please explain why here. There's no point in an edit war going on and on here.
Ryu Kaze February 7, 2006
Yes, it was definitely my intention that I only mention the facts involved. And, yes, Mirlen, there may be peace. Now that I've thought about it, I most definitely should have added that Aerith continued to love Cloud just as much as before once she knew who he really was the first time around. I never doubted that she loved him, and the novella doesn't indicate that she didn't, and I apologize if I made it appear that way. I just wanted to emphasise the fact that she loved him without knowing the real him, but she definitely did continue to love him just as much even after she knew who he really was.
If you're satisfied with the current form of the citations, then I guess all is well. No hard feelings and sorry if I came off a bit heated. I was just a bit frustrated, and that was probably made all the worse because I've got a cold.
By the way, I think XComp's site is dead and won't be coming back. Kind of a shame. If you can find Maiden online somewhere (you could probably request it on a forum; I'm sure someone saved it; you might be able to get someone to post it), then save it to your computer or e-mail or something.
Anyway, have a good one.
Ryu Kaze 7:50 PM February 7, 2006
Ah, good that his site's back up. It would be a shame if it were to be gone. It's a really good piece of work.
And, yes, it is good to get conflicts resolved. Thanks for the well wishes, and, again, have a good one.
Ryu Kaze 10:36 PM February 7, 2006
I think some elements from the Crisis Core trailer should be included. Perhaps mentioning something about her and Zack's "promise". Granted not much else is known, but I think it's notable nonetheless. Eluchil 01:08, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering who -- and why they did it -- posted this in the opening of the article?:
"The alternative spelling was subsequently used in the English translation of Kingdom Hearts, spoken by Leon (aka Squall Leonhart), as 'Aye-ree-ith'. However, both Aerith and Aeris may possibly be pronounced the same, as 'air-is'."
There's no audio for that part of Kingdom Hearts. It's just text. I'm going to fix this.
Ryu Kaze February 9, 2006
I'd be remised if I didn't direct you to the writers' rules of engagement. For your own reference. Eluchil 06:05, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
In a recent edit, Midnight Wolf wrote that in "Maiden Who Travels The Planet", the writers revealed "the fact that it was [Aeris] who called the Lifesteam into action to defeat the Meteor". I'm pretty sure that fact was obvious from the FF7 ending. Marlene says "The flower girl?" when the Lifestream starts to move, and in the end, we see Aeris' face glowing green. I'm changing it to say that Maiden confirms that fact. Viltris 08:47, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
I already know that happens to her at the end of disc 1 of FF7, but do you think that she could be an example of the " Women in Refrigerators" syndrome? Duo 05:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
When you put it all out there like that, Sean, I do agree with it; in the sense that it's ingrained into our culture, though, the concept itself is something of a literary criticism, so it does come off as OR. Ryu Kaze 22:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone's created a Maiden Who Travels the Planet page, but I really don't see the need for it, as there's very little information to even speak of on it, and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII page already makes mention of it, while quite a bit of its relevant information is contained here on Aerith's page (including the link to the translation). In fact, there's more info about it here than on its own page. I think that it should be merged here. Ryu Kaze 16:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
All of you who helped this page make GA, take a bow! :) Kasreyn 19:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
The "Official" website that redirects from http://www.square-enix-usa.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html and http://na.square-enix.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html note her Romanized, English name as "Aeris Gainsborough". Repeatedly. In the link name and in her profile itself. If it's on Square's official website, why is that somehow not the final word? 22 July 2006
The article currently says "Aeris" redirects here. but this is incorrect. Aeris redirects to the disambiguation page. I don't know if I should A) change the redirect or B) change this article from {{ redirect}} to {{ otheruses}}. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
This talk page is getting pretty long, weighing in at over 100KB. I propose that it be archived by topic, with the lengthy name debates (which consume a good chunk of the page) being archived on Aerith Gainsborough/Name Debate Archive (with minor formatting edits to improve readability), with a section either on this talk page or at the head of the archive page summarizing the arguments, so that newcomers to the article will be able to grasp the situation faster, and avoid bringing up the same arguments over and over again. The section at the head of the talk page here summarizes the current consensus, but doesn't explain it or summarize the arguments.
I'm willing to do all this, but I realise that the process of archiving a talk page (particularly one with so much controversy) requires a certain amount of trust in the archiver, and I don't want to just nominate myself for the position, being relatively new here. That, and I don't have as much time for the Wikipedia as I might like, or as much experience with it as others here. So, any comments? Nominations? Volunteers? -- Rablari Dash 09:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
There is a torjan in the following links:
I clicked on it and Norton automatically removed it from my computer.
The links are found in this sentence under the subtopic, Fandom:
"One of the earliest and most notorious of these rumors was put out by Ben Lansing [1] who unsuccessfully tried to retract it later [2] after his "authoritative" article had snowballed into a big debate."
-- Hobbes3k 04:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm fairly sure that the spirit in the church was actually supposed to be a full fledged conversation between cloud and Aerith, that was not put in due to there not being enough time. I would just go and change it, but I thought i should put something here. Actually i will change it , if anyone has any objections, feel free to change it back and I'll leave it alone. Vespertilio 4 October 2005
Just so everybody knows, you can see Aerith in the Church anytime RIGHT AFTER resucing her from the Turks on disk one. If you backtrack to the church, you will have Cloud and Aerith in your party, and the Spirit will be right their. This is all on Disk one. JQF 16:37, 5 October 2005
I originally added this bit to the article:
I think I'll now remove it (and maybe put it in Wikibooks later, when and if it gets Really Extensive which it isn't now), because I think I went a little bit fancruftaceous here. Changing small details like this are not really noteworthy; A lot of games get a lot of changes, sometimes far more dramatic, during the development. This was probably just one detail that the developers bounced around until settling it where it is in the final product, and as such I don't think it's not worth mentioning. -- Wwwwolf 10:15, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
== HOLY did noy cause Geostigma==This is an erroneous statement. jenovas cells caused Geostigma not holy
Um... there's a whole bunch of External Links here! Should these go, as most are to fansites? I've often viewed these as linkspam unless the fan site is really notable and extensive (like ff7citadel.com, in case of the main FF7 article). It started to go this way in the Tifa article, but I just added note along the lines of "hey, the Offoapropated Fanlisting has a nice list of fansites, take a look there, WP:NOT a linkfarm" as a comment. The problem is, in Aerith's case, there isn't a nice list of fansites anywhere - We could just say "well, just look at Aerith fanlisting", but unlike in Tifa's case, they don't have a nice list of fansites, just a list of fans in general. So does anyone have any other ideas? I hesitate to do anything about this right now. -- wwwwolf ( barks/ growls) 18:59, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Just so there won't be a war here, I'll put it in the discussions. It does NOT matter than most people don't have a musical ear -- the piece is SIMILAR, yes, but it's not in any way "based on" Aria De Mezzo. It's not really relevent (at least in my opinion) or at the very least it should be clear that they they are merely similar. Melodia Chaconne 17:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I disagree --- Aerith's Theme is so similar that piece that you can actually sing portions of it along with it.
Agent0042
19:03, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
So what if they are, Uematsu-san created them both. Many artists redux their works for use in other things, which in effect creates a completely new work (depending on certain elements of course). I don't see why this is an issue, personally. Eluchil 11:00, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Is this going to keep going? I was going to just give up on it, but somebody put it back up and now you've removed it again, Melodia?
Agent0042
22:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Do you think it's worth it putting a KH2 spoiler tag for one word?[ [1]] Zero1328 02:10, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't understand. What's the spoiler in question? Agent0042 06:56, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Ah, sorry, I'm pretty sure that Tifa was never mentioned to be in the game, that's why. Zero1328 11:11, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Why do each of the FFVII characters have "(In Final Fantasy VII)" next to their age in their infoboxes? It doesnt make sense to me and Aerith's infobox has it. -- Psi edit 00:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Ok I just realized. Couldnt we just put "Present age" for all the characters. Psi edit 02:57, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
Dirge of Cerberus is the latest setting for the FFVII world. Taking place 3 years after the first game. -- Psi edit 01:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
It's worth pointing out that the content under "Personality" has been lifted almost word-for-word from [2]. I know that it was the Wikipedia editor that did the lifting, because I am the original author. I don't particularly mind, because my opinion gets more airtime this way, and obviously there's no way to prove that I was the original author, nor am I going to bother trying, but I feel like pointing it out in case people believe that I plagarised my work. (- Mary) -- 80.4.205.50 00:58, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi. I've been trying to edit the Romantic Issues section of the article to reflect Aerith's actual feelings for Cloud, but it keeps getting changed back. As of right now, it's giving misleading information. This is what it says at the moment:
In
Benny Matsuyama's novel Maiden Who Travels The Planet, some fans interpret the following quote below as that most of what she saw in Cloud had been emulated from Zack, believing that Aerith loved Cloud because of the striking similarities between the two.
"But she couldn't figure out the truth. Her thoughts just went in circles. Aerith delved into her memories again. Memories that showed Cloud's individuality. The way he walked. She remembered all his actions one by one...
Most of those thoughts merged into the Sea of Mako and awakened a character. The character recognized the image she recalled and he [Zack] woke up."
At the same time, however, she mentions that both Cloud and Zack are different people. Also, it has been revealed that she truly loved Cloud for who he is and more than her first love, as she claims early in the novella.
"At first, she thought he somehow had some similarities to her first love. Even so, his looks, voice and personality weren't similar, and he also made her think of him as a mysterious person... But it soon didn't matter. She loved him much more than her first love."
This is simply wrong. This is like quoting the flashback sequence in Mideel first, and then later quoting Sephiroth and Hojo's lines at the Northern Crater and trying to claim that Cloud's not a real person. Aerith never got to know Cloud for who he was order to love him for who he was. Maiden Who Travels the Planet never says that she loved him for who he was. It merely says that she loved him more than she loved Zack, and that's it. This was also during Chapter 1. In Chapter 5 when she begins thinking about all the things about Cloud that she liked -- ironically, the things that she thought displayed his individuality -- it caused Zack to awaken, because those things were characteristic of him.
It is not "at the same time" that she mentions that they are different people. It is after Zack awakens, with the fact that the things about Cloud that she remembered being the characteristics he had adopted from Zack. For that matter, the only things she brings up that express a difference between the two are that Cloud's simplistic, as well as awkward around girls (some aspects of his personality), his appearance (though he still moved and walked like Zack), and his voice. Not exactly a huge list.
As the article's worded, it is highly misleading, and I can only conclude that it is being worded in that manner intentionally. This is an encyclopedia, which should be reporting facts, not twisting statements around across several chapters to make things look differently than they are.
Maiden even goes so far as to have Aerith point out that she herself could not be the one to free Cloud's mind in the Lifestream because she simply didn't know the real him. She didn't know the truth about his past. Only Tifa could do it, because only Tifa was there. It's pretty hard to make an argument that Aerith loved him for the real him when she never met him and only met the nigh-complete imitation of Zack that he deluded himself into being, and when she even admits that she couldn't help him because she didn't know him. Hell, after Tifa helps him reconstruct his mind, it even says that it was only then that she knew the real Cloud:
"She was happy. She was happy that she now knew the real Cloud and was able to watch over him, even though it was just for a short while."
So I'm going to change it back again, and I ask that anyone who deems it appropriate or necessary to alter it after that please explain why here. There's no point in an edit war going on and on here.
Ryu Kaze February 7, 2006
Yes, it was definitely my intention that I only mention the facts involved. And, yes, Mirlen, there may be peace. Now that I've thought about it, I most definitely should have added that Aerith continued to love Cloud just as much as before once she knew who he really was the first time around. I never doubted that she loved him, and the novella doesn't indicate that she didn't, and I apologize if I made it appear that way. I just wanted to emphasise the fact that she loved him without knowing the real him, but she definitely did continue to love him just as much even after she knew who he really was.
If you're satisfied with the current form of the citations, then I guess all is well. No hard feelings and sorry if I came off a bit heated. I was just a bit frustrated, and that was probably made all the worse because I've got a cold.
By the way, I think XComp's site is dead and won't be coming back. Kind of a shame. If you can find Maiden online somewhere (you could probably request it on a forum; I'm sure someone saved it; you might be able to get someone to post it), then save it to your computer or e-mail or something.
Anyway, have a good one.
Ryu Kaze 7:50 PM February 7, 2006
Ah, good that his site's back up. It would be a shame if it were to be gone. It's a really good piece of work.
And, yes, it is good to get conflicts resolved. Thanks for the well wishes, and, again, have a good one.
Ryu Kaze 10:36 PM February 7, 2006
I think some elements from the Crisis Core trailer should be included. Perhaps mentioning something about her and Zack's "promise". Granted not much else is known, but I think it's notable nonetheless. Eluchil 01:08, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering who -- and why they did it -- posted this in the opening of the article?:
"The alternative spelling was subsequently used in the English translation of Kingdom Hearts, spoken by Leon (aka Squall Leonhart), as 'Aye-ree-ith'. However, both Aerith and Aeris may possibly be pronounced the same, as 'air-is'."
There's no audio for that part of Kingdom Hearts. It's just text. I'm going to fix this.
Ryu Kaze February 9, 2006
I'd be remised if I didn't direct you to the writers' rules of engagement. For your own reference. Eluchil 06:05, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
In a recent edit, Midnight Wolf wrote that in "Maiden Who Travels The Planet", the writers revealed "the fact that it was [Aeris] who called the Lifesteam into action to defeat the Meteor". I'm pretty sure that fact was obvious from the FF7 ending. Marlene says "The flower girl?" when the Lifestream starts to move, and in the end, we see Aeris' face glowing green. I'm changing it to say that Maiden confirms that fact. Viltris 08:47, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
I already know that happens to her at the end of disc 1 of FF7, but do you think that she could be an example of the " Women in Refrigerators" syndrome? Duo 05:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
When you put it all out there like that, Sean, I do agree with it; in the sense that it's ingrained into our culture, though, the concept itself is something of a literary criticism, so it does come off as OR. Ryu Kaze 22:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone's created a Maiden Who Travels the Planet page, but I really don't see the need for it, as there's very little information to even speak of on it, and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII page already makes mention of it, while quite a bit of its relevant information is contained here on Aerith's page (including the link to the translation). In fact, there's more info about it here than on its own page. I think that it should be merged here. Ryu Kaze 16:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
All of you who helped this page make GA, take a bow! :) Kasreyn 19:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
The "Official" website that redirects from http://www.square-enix-usa.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html and http://na.square-enix.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html note her Romanized, English name as "Aeris Gainsborough". Repeatedly. In the link name and in her profile itself. If it's on Square's official website, why is that somehow not the final word? 22 July 2006
The article currently says "Aeris" redirects here. but this is incorrect. Aeris redirects to the disambiguation page. I don't know if I should A) change the redirect or B) change this article from {{ redirect}} to {{ otheruses}}. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
This talk page is getting pretty long, weighing in at over 100KB. I propose that it be archived by topic, with the lengthy name debates (which consume a good chunk of the page) being archived on Aerith Gainsborough/Name Debate Archive (with minor formatting edits to improve readability), with a section either on this talk page or at the head of the archive page summarizing the arguments, so that newcomers to the article will be able to grasp the situation faster, and avoid bringing up the same arguments over and over again. The section at the head of the talk page here summarizes the current consensus, but doesn't explain it or summarize the arguments.
I'm willing to do all this, but I realise that the process of archiving a talk page (particularly one with so much controversy) requires a certain amount of trust in the archiver, and I don't want to just nominate myself for the position, being relatively new here. That, and I don't have as much time for the Wikipedia as I might like, or as much experience with it as others here. So, any comments? Nominations? Volunteers? -- Rablari Dash 09:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)