This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | → | Archive 25 |
"The question stands: why the blanket interest in Hitler, when Stalin merits as much, if not more? Isn't it a pretence to insist that the Hitler obsession has anything to do with moral reflection and lesson-learning?-- shtove 00:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)".-- shtove 01:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Your points are sound, but not all GCSE pupils or tv-viewers are interested in Hitler, and I daresay a few of them are more interested in Stalin. What I'm getting at is the obsession we have. My view is that Hitler is our chosen cipher for evil - absent God - and that the soap-opera of his life gives the cipher mass appeal. As for the self-contained nature of Stalin's actions - state communism set out to dominate the world and human nature: far more pernicious than Germany's cobbled together ideology. I wonder what Ukrainians and Poles would think of the obsession?-- shtove 22:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Why is there no reference to the 25 -point plan, no link to it, either from here or from the recommended sub-articles?
Why does the Holocaust article go against all history and present the Holocaust as emanating fro the Nazi party and Collaborators without identifying the clear sngle progenitor. This is to ignore the whole history. If he was so charismatic, and as he was the Fuhrer, why is his direct control un-recognised? EffK 23:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be put back and kept on forever. I see no point of taking it down. -- nyenyec ☎ 02:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Some quotes can be found at stephenjaygould.org:
Shawnc 22:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Andries. Though Hitler was not an esotoricist as Himmler or Heß, he neither was a Christian. Hitler was born into a Catholic family, but from his youth onward didn't practice the faith in any way. He never went to church, except for weddings of people like Göring or funerals. He did not "discuss his faith" but made religious reference in his speeches - that's quite different. References to God do not make one a Christian. In fact, it is known that he wanted to erradicate Christianity after the "Endsieg". Any references to Christianity must also be seen in light of the NSDAP's "positive Christianity" which basically means a shell to be filled by Nazi ideas. Str1977 22:34, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I changed this section heading from "beliefs" to "claims". The public claims and speeches, assuming they are so, would not be an opinion and would not be subjected to debate. Shawnc 17:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Isn't it a PoV? Hitler was never been convicted by any court. I've removed this category. see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:War_criminals. This catregory is going to be deleted. -- Haham hanuka 13:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Haham, granted - he was never charged and hence never convicted but that was because he was dead. But if he had been alive (or thought to be alive as Bormann was) he would have been charged and convicted, don't you think? The issue of whether the category should be deleted is a different issue (and if it is deleted our issue here becomes futile), but if it does exist I can't see a reason not to include Hitler. Any other thoughts? Str1977 13:42, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I was earlier objecting to the neutralising of the specificity of this Title for the Hitler bankers who kept his movement afloat, down to german businessmen. now I see that the vote for deletion was carried by Robert McClenon and one other. this seems exrtraordinary, especially as the info was sourced to the very page . What exactly does this contribute to Wkipedia, and why do we sleep walk along into this kind of revisionism in WP ? I can only say that I am appalled at the approach being forced hrough here and in many related articles. This is sabotage of a high order and denies verifiability. EffK 10:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Does the administrator of this Wikipedia still live within the world of the magazine "Mad" ? He seems to be not so qualified for this job. He seems to be a "Wikipedia administrator". Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- ersetze AT durch @ ) (19012006)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | → | Archive 25 |
"The question stands: why the blanket interest in Hitler, when Stalin merits as much, if not more? Isn't it a pretence to insist that the Hitler obsession has anything to do with moral reflection and lesson-learning?-- shtove 00:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)".-- shtove 01:34, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Your points are sound, but not all GCSE pupils or tv-viewers are interested in Hitler, and I daresay a few of them are more interested in Stalin. What I'm getting at is the obsession we have. My view is that Hitler is our chosen cipher for evil - absent God - and that the soap-opera of his life gives the cipher mass appeal. As for the self-contained nature of Stalin's actions - state communism set out to dominate the world and human nature: far more pernicious than Germany's cobbled together ideology. I wonder what Ukrainians and Poles would think of the obsession?-- shtove 22:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Why is there no reference to the 25 -point plan, no link to it, either from here or from the recommended sub-articles?
Why does the Holocaust article go against all history and present the Holocaust as emanating fro the Nazi party and Collaborators without identifying the clear sngle progenitor. This is to ignore the whole history. If he was so charismatic, and as he was the Fuhrer, why is his direct control un-recognised? EffK 23:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be put back and kept on forever. I see no point of taking it down. -- nyenyec ☎ 02:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Some quotes can be found at stephenjaygould.org:
Shawnc 22:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Andries. Though Hitler was not an esotoricist as Himmler or Heß, he neither was a Christian. Hitler was born into a Catholic family, but from his youth onward didn't practice the faith in any way. He never went to church, except for weddings of people like Göring or funerals. He did not "discuss his faith" but made religious reference in his speeches - that's quite different. References to God do not make one a Christian. In fact, it is known that he wanted to erradicate Christianity after the "Endsieg". Any references to Christianity must also be seen in light of the NSDAP's "positive Christianity" which basically means a shell to be filled by Nazi ideas. Str1977 22:34, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I changed this section heading from "beliefs" to "claims". The public claims and speeches, assuming they are so, would not be an opinion and would not be subjected to debate. Shawnc 17:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Isn't it a PoV? Hitler was never been convicted by any court. I've removed this category. see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:War_criminals. This catregory is going to be deleted. -- Haham hanuka 13:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Haham, granted - he was never charged and hence never convicted but that was because he was dead. But if he had been alive (or thought to be alive as Bormann was) he would have been charged and convicted, don't you think? The issue of whether the category should be deleted is a different issue (and if it is deleted our issue here becomes futile), but if it does exist I can't see a reason not to include Hitler. Any other thoughts? Str1977 13:42, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
I was earlier objecting to the neutralising of the specificity of this Title for the Hitler bankers who kept his movement afloat, down to german businessmen. now I see that the vote for deletion was carried by Robert McClenon and one other. this seems exrtraordinary, especially as the info was sourced to the very page . What exactly does this contribute to Wkipedia, and why do we sleep walk along into this kind of revisionism in WP ? I can only say that I am appalled at the approach being forced hrough here and in many related articles. This is sabotage of a high order and denies verifiability. EffK 10:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Does the administrator of this Wikipedia still live within the world of the magazine "Mad" ? He seems to be not so qualified for this job. He seems to be a "Wikipedia administrator". Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- ersetze AT durch @ ) (19012006)