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Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#A_simple_formulation says
We sometimes give an alternative formulation of the non-bias policy: assert facts, including facts about opinions — but do not assert opinions themselves. There is a difference between facts and opinions. By "fact" we mean "a piece of information about which there is no serious dispute." For example, that a survey produced a certain published result would be a fact. That there is a planet called Mars is a fact. That Plato was a philosopher is a fact. No one seriously disputes any of these things. So we can feel free to assert as many of them as we can.
Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight says
NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a verifiable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. Now an important qualification: Articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views, and may not include tiny-minority views at all (by example, the article on the Earth only very briefly refers to the Flat Earth theory, a view of a distinct minority).
Jecowa 06:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, and I don't know how it is in the Christian-extremist USA, but here in Europe sex by adolescents is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about, so these opinions have way too much (even serious) text in the article about them compared to the general POV. Salaskan 16:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
This is an awkward sentence:
Brian Pearson 13:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Adolescence ( Latin adolescentia, from adolescere, to grow up) is the period or process of growing from puberty to adulthood. It is also the state or condition of being adolescent. Teenagers (ages 13-19) are usually adolescent, though in some individuals, puberty may extend a few years beyond the teenage years, and in some individuals, puberty begins in the pre-teen years. -- 167.206.128.33 16:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Introduction makes no sense. Well, it makes some sense but is awkward sounding. 24.218.121.21 ( talk) 05:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Lillian 0.2.34456.12.90 ...
Some of these pictures just don't seem to bring anything to this article.
--Is this fact... ? 07:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I though that the image of the Emo boy and the boy in the hat are very appropiate as it visually shows the fashions of teenagers, as they set street fashion and are very fashionable!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.107.81 ( talk) 22:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
this Rendy kid is showing a obsene hand gesture. Do you think this does teenagers any favours making adults hate them more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.253.244.209 ( talk) 18:22, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
The picture of the "emo" guy doesn't make sense, because no one can decide on what emo actually is, and it isn't really a characteristic of adolescence anyway. Championpork ( talk) 03:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
"The age at which teens are allowed to serve in the military is generally younger than the legal drinking age, for obvious reasons."
What obvious reasons? This actually seems to be a bit counter-intuitive to me, but since I have negative feelings on both alcohol and military service I might not be the best to judge. At the very least it's needlessly vague. 69.181.55.239 ( talk) 06:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
This section seems unencyclopedic to me. It refers to a question ( http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080926120826AAx8byC) someone posted on "yahoo [sic] Answers". There were only 16 answers to this question, and the selected answer appears to me to be intended to be 'clever' or 'humorous', and provides no citation. I feel this is akin to making a section about a conversation you had with a couple of friends about a subject; one of your friends provides a dryly humorous answer, your friends have a few chuckles over it. Will someone with more WP experience please review and possible delete this section? Thanks. 4.79.81.4 ( talk) 20:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
"In recent years, however, the start of puberty has seen an increase in preadolescence and extension beyond the teenage years, making adolescence less simple to discern.[1][5][2]"
Hmm, I don't think I quite agree completely. However, I think they are right about it over all. I think ages 10 is when it starts (puberty) and then ends around 20-22. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkymonkey987 ( talk • contribs) 05:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
The construct of Adolescence has not gone without criticism. There should be some good quotes from [1]. EmilianaMartín ( talk) 16:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
According to James May's 20th Century 24 - Episode 5 - Inventing The Teenager [2] he say's "In 1900, there were... no teenagers." Shouldn't this be noted or discussed as the term is pretty recent? Faro0485 ( talk) 12:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree entirely. It's pretty clear that the concept of "teenager" is an outcome of the growth of (primarily American) consumer culture - a period of freedom with spending power but without responsibility. It's been actively encouraged within that culture as a supposed universal, but there are still planty of places wordwide where no such concept exists. In such cultures, the transition from child/cultural learner to adult/cultural supporter is frequently via a specific initiatory event, there being no "transition period" beyond the specific preparation for initiation. This article should bring these points to the fore if it is to be considered authoritative and unbaised.
212.159.59.5 (
talk)
09:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The article states that "the age at which people are allowed to marry also varies, from 9 in Yemen to 22 for males and 20 for females in China..."
However, the new age of marriage is 17 in Yemen, according to http://yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1233&p=front&a=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.233.227 ( talk) 12:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
"Sexual intercourse with a person below the local age of consent is treated as the crime of statutory rape."
The above statement is not universally true. In the UK the age of consent is 16, yet it is only statutory rape if one of the people is 12 or under. It is still against the law to have sex with someone 13-15 years old but it is not rape, it is a much lesser offence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.188.24 ( talk) 19:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Why teenagers are treated bad by police and children 12 and under are treated nicer, i feel like its discrmination. Mickman1234 ( talk) 02:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
I insist that the first image is the better of two. Why? As I stated to the IP who has argued with me about it, the second picture has been reverted before (more than once) in the past, [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] in favor of the long-standing Image:WingsHaircut.jpg and does not show the very definition of puberty; puberty is mainly about a body changing into adult form. The first image shows a well-built teenage male who has achieved adult form. Additionally, it is the IP's opinion that the boy in the first image has gone through all the physical changes of puberty. I point out that some 16-year-old males are still going through puberty and may have that body type. The IP wants the second image because it shows an acne-faced teenager, and because eighth graders are likely to have acne. I point out that this article is not even mostly focusing on eighth graders; I have read most of the sources. My revert is about the best picture. The one of the well-built teenage male who has achieved an adult body, which is what puberty is mainly about, who may still be going through puberty, is obviously the better image (in my opinion, of course). Not some image of an acne-faced teenage boy just to demonstrate that some teenagers get acne and teenage males may or may not have facial hair. The first image shows what the body morphs into, structure-wise, as well as that teenage males may or may not have facial hair. If the first image is not used, then I strongly feel that the long-standing image should be there instead of the one the IP has chosen; in addition, the image the IP has chosen is very likely of the IP's own son (as suggested by editors before). Why is that relevant? Well, it shows that the IP has another (or rather main) motive for wanting the second image added. And both images being in the article is not the best route to go; it makes readers ask the question of why there isn't a female teenager also in the section. I do want a picture of a female teenager in that section, though. Flyer22 ( talk) 05:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the two male images in debate, here is " my version" and here is the IP's version. Flyer22 ( talk) 06:09, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a fan of any of the three photo – they're all too "Myspace"-like – but the one that shows the torso instead of just the face is better if it's a choice between these three. A photo of just the face is too obviously about a specific individual, while the head and torso picture is less jarring since it isn't some random face suddenly staring out of the computer screen. Additionally, if part of the point is the the face has taken on a more adult-like morphology, the boy in the mirror illustrates that best in my opinion – the other two look more child-like, or at least distinctly adolescent rather than adult-like, to make that point. Regarding the one with acne, I don't know if this is legit grounds to not use it, but I personally don't like the idea of "rewarding" the uncooperative behavior of someone who repeatedly tried to force personal photos into multiple articles a while back by allowing one to stand (unless it is obviously a superior choice compared to the others – and this one is not). Even if that's not a legit reason, though, I think it's the wrong pic to use for the other reasons I stated. I agree that an "idealized" form is not the most encyclopedic example, but for now it's better than the other two. My true preference would be to have a picture more akin to what one would find in a medical textbook or such. -- Icarus ( Hi!) 22:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
My English certainly isn't perfect, but there are two sentences that I'm pretty sure are grammatically wrong in the "Puberty" section.
"Every person's individual timetable for puberty is influenced primarily by heredity, although environmental factors, such as diet and exercise, also exert some influence."
"The age of menarche is influenced by heredity, but a girl's diet and lifestyle contribute as well."
Shouldn't that be hereditary factors? If anyone else thinks this, could they change it? I'm hesitant to change it if I just don't know how to use hereditary correctly... thanks.
This is wrong:
"This is triggered by the pituitary gland, which secretes a surge of hormones, such as testosterone (boys) or estrogen and progesterone (girls) into the blood stream and begins the rapid maturation of the gonads: the girl's ovaries and the boy's testicles."
The pituitary gland does indeed secrete a surge of hormones. However, the hormonal agents that are released from the pituitary gland are responsible for activating the sex organs, which in turn, release the necessary chemicals.
Somebody want to correct it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.77.60 ( talk) 05:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Note: Just noting that the above IP went ahead and made the changes on February 11, 2010 as 89.241.6.146. Flyer22 ( talk) 00:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
This seems to me to be more of a "spam" nature, than adding anything to the knowledge about adolescence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.18.27.136 ( talk) 12:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I came here looking for a history of the concept of adolescence. The authors of this article seem unaware that it even has a history. JKeck ( talk) 21:33, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#A_simple_formulation says
We sometimes give an alternative formulation of the non-bias policy: assert facts, including facts about opinions — but do not assert opinions themselves. There is a difference between facts and opinions. By "fact" we mean "a piece of information about which there is no serious dispute." For example, that a survey produced a certain published result would be a fact. That there is a planet called Mars is a fact. That Plato was a philosopher is a fact. No one seriously disputes any of these things. So we can feel free to assert as many of them as we can.
Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Undue_weight says
NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a verifiable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. Now an important qualification: Articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views, and may not include tiny-minority views at all (by example, the article on the Earth only very briefly refers to the Flat Earth theory, a view of a distinct minority).
Jecowa 06:12, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, and I don't know how it is in the Christian-extremist USA, but here in Europe sex by adolescents is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about, so these opinions have way too much (even serious) text in the article about them compared to the general POV. Salaskan 16:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
This is an awkward sentence:
Brian Pearson 13:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Adolescence ( Latin adolescentia, from adolescere, to grow up) is the period or process of growing from puberty to adulthood. It is also the state or condition of being adolescent. Teenagers (ages 13-19) are usually adolescent, though in some individuals, puberty may extend a few years beyond the teenage years, and in some individuals, puberty begins in the pre-teen years. -- 167.206.128.33 16:18, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Introduction makes no sense. Well, it makes some sense but is awkward sounding. 24.218.121.21 ( talk) 05:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Lillian 0.2.34456.12.90 ...
Some of these pictures just don't seem to bring anything to this article.
--Is this fact... ? 07:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
I though that the image of the Emo boy and the boy in the hat are very appropiate as it visually shows the fashions of teenagers, as they set street fashion and are very fashionable!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.107.81 ( talk) 22:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
this Rendy kid is showing a obsene hand gesture. Do you think this does teenagers any favours making adults hate them more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.253.244.209 ( talk) 18:22, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
The picture of the "emo" guy doesn't make sense, because no one can decide on what emo actually is, and it isn't really a characteristic of adolescence anyway. Championpork ( talk) 03:52, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
"The age at which teens are allowed to serve in the military is generally younger than the legal drinking age, for obvious reasons."
What obvious reasons? This actually seems to be a bit counter-intuitive to me, but since I have negative feelings on both alcohol and military service I might not be the best to judge. At the very least it's needlessly vague. 69.181.55.239 ( talk) 06:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
This section seems unencyclopedic to me. It refers to a question ( http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080926120826AAx8byC) someone posted on "yahoo [sic] Answers". There were only 16 answers to this question, and the selected answer appears to me to be intended to be 'clever' or 'humorous', and provides no citation. I feel this is akin to making a section about a conversation you had with a couple of friends about a subject; one of your friends provides a dryly humorous answer, your friends have a few chuckles over it. Will someone with more WP experience please review and possible delete this section? Thanks. 4.79.81.4 ( talk) 20:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
"In recent years, however, the start of puberty has seen an increase in preadolescence and extension beyond the teenage years, making adolescence less simple to discern.[1][5][2]"
Hmm, I don't think I quite agree completely. However, I think they are right about it over all. I think ages 10 is when it starts (puberty) and then ends around 20-22. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Punkymonkey987 ( talk • contribs) 05:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
The construct of Adolescence has not gone without criticism. There should be some good quotes from [1]. EmilianaMartín ( talk) 16:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
According to James May's 20th Century 24 - Episode 5 - Inventing The Teenager [2] he say's "In 1900, there were... no teenagers." Shouldn't this be noted or discussed as the term is pretty recent? Faro0485 ( talk) 12:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree entirely. It's pretty clear that the concept of "teenager" is an outcome of the growth of (primarily American) consumer culture - a period of freedom with spending power but without responsibility. It's been actively encouraged within that culture as a supposed universal, but there are still planty of places wordwide where no such concept exists. In such cultures, the transition from child/cultural learner to adult/cultural supporter is frequently via a specific initiatory event, there being no "transition period" beyond the specific preparation for initiation. This article should bring these points to the fore if it is to be considered authoritative and unbaised.
212.159.59.5 (
talk)
09:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
The article states that "the age at which people are allowed to marry also varies, from 9 in Yemen to 22 for males and 20 for females in China..."
However, the new age of marriage is 17 in Yemen, according to http://yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1233&p=front&a=1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.233.227 ( talk) 12:27, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
"Sexual intercourse with a person below the local age of consent is treated as the crime of statutory rape."
The above statement is not universally true. In the UK the age of consent is 16, yet it is only statutory rape if one of the people is 12 or under. It is still against the law to have sex with someone 13-15 years old but it is not rape, it is a much lesser offence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.188.24 ( talk) 19:55, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Why teenagers are treated bad by police and children 12 and under are treated nicer, i feel like its discrmination. Mickman1234 ( talk) 02:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
I insist that the first image is the better of two. Why? As I stated to the IP who has argued with me about it, the second picture has been reverted before (more than once) in the past, [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] in favor of the long-standing Image:WingsHaircut.jpg and does not show the very definition of puberty; puberty is mainly about a body changing into adult form. The first image shows a well-built teenage male who has achieved adult form. Additionally, it is the IP's opinion that the boy in the first image has gone through all the physical changes of puberty. I point out that some 16-year-old males are still going through puberty and may have that body type. The IP wants the second image because it shows an acne-faced teenager, and because eighth graders are likely to have acne. I point out that this article is not even mostly focusing on eighth graders; I have read most of the sources. My revert is about the best picture. The one of the well-built teenage male who has achieved an adult body, which is what puberty is mainly about, who may still be going through puberty, is obviously the better image (in my opinion, of course). Not some image of an acne-faced teenage boy just to demonstrate that some teenagers get acne and teenage males may or may not have facial hair. The first image shows what the body morphs into, structure-wise, as well as that teenage males may or may not have facial hair. If the first image is not used, then I strongly feel that the long-standing image should be there instead of the one the IP has chosen; in addition, the image the IP has chosen is very likely of the IP's own son (as suggested by editors before). Why is that relevant? Well, it shows that the IP has another (or rather main) motive for wanting the second image added. And both images being in the article is not the best route to go; it makes readers ask the question of why there isn't a female teenager also in the section. I do want a picture of a female teenager in that section, though. Flyer22 ( talk) 05:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the two male images in debate, here is " my version" and here is the IP's version. Flyer22 ( talk) 06:09, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a fan of any of the three photo – they're all too "Myspace"-like – but the one that shows the torso instead of just the face is better if it's a choice between these three. A photo of just the face is too obviously about a specific individual, while the head and torso picture is less jarring since it isn't some random face suddenly staring out of the computer screen. Additionally, if part of the point is the the face has taken on a more adult-like morphology, the boy in the mirror illustrates that best in my opinion – the other two look more child-like, or at least distinctly adolescent rather than adult-like, to make that point. Regarding the one with acne, I don't know if this is legit grounds to not use it, but I personally don't like the idea of "rewarding" the uncooperative behavior of someone who repeatedly tried to force personal photos into multiple articles a while back by allowing one to stand (unless it is obviously a superior choice compared to the others – and this one is not). Even if that's not a legit reason, though, I think it's the wrong pic to use for the other reasons I stated. I agree that an "idealized" form is not the most encyclopedic example, but for now it's better than the other two. My true preference would be to have a picture more akin to what one would find in a medical textbook or such. -- Icarus ( Hi!) 22:42, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
My English certainly isn't perfect, but there are two sentences that I'm pretty sure are grammatically wrong in the "Puberty" section.
"Every person's individual timetable for puberty is influenced primarily by heredity, although environmental factors, such as diet and exercise, also exert some influence."
"The age of menarche is influenced by heredity, but a girl's diet and lifestyle contribute as well."
Shouldn't that be hereditary factors? If anyone else thinks this, could they change it? I'm hesitant to change it if I just don't know how to use hereditary correctly... thanks.
This is wrong:
"This is triggered by the pituitary gland, which secretes a surge of hormones, such as testosterone (boys) or estrogen and progesterone (girls) into the blood stream and begins the rapid maturation of the gonads: the girl's ovaries and the boy's testicles."
The pituitary gland does indeed secrete a surge of hormones. However, the hormonal agents that are released from the pituitary gland are responsible for activating the sex organs, which in turn, release the necessary chemicals.
Somebody want to correct it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.77.60 ( talk) 05:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Note: Just noting that the above IP went ahead and made the changes on February 11, 2010 as 89.241.6.146. Flyer22 ( talk) 00:45, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
This seems to me to be more of a "spam" nature, than adding anything to the knowledge about adolescence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.18.27.136 ( talk) 12:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I came here looking for a history of the concept of adolescence. The authors of this article seem unaware that it even has a history. JKeck ( talk) 21:33, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |