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A significant number of the biographical articles of past Admirals of the Fleet have styled the named officer as 'Admiral of the Fleet Sir Joe Bloggs' - this is not appropriate! Admiral of the Fleet is a rank, not a title. Further, to style someone as such is contradictory to the Wikipedia Manual of Style - no other articles fail to conform to such a vast extent! AJMW 18:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The Article on Thomas Cochrane, 10th Earl of Dundonald describes him as 'Great Admiral of the Fleet', a link that refers to this article- yet Cochrane is not mentioned by name or by title. Is the article on him inaccurate or incorrect or perhaps is the 'Great Admiral of the Fleet' a courtesy title? Proberton ( talk) 02:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
The sleeve rank insignia depicted has inaccurate dimensions, and the shoulder-board rank insignia is extremely inaccurate.
An officer of the rank of Admiral of the Fleet may be described as "great", but there is no such thing as the title "Great Admiral of the Fleet". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.216.163 ( talk) 11:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
The George V article states he was named Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) in 1910, but he does not appear here. Which is correct? Ecphora ( talk) 12:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Why don't the opening paragraphs of articles begin by describing or defining whatever it is Now or when last sighted? History can follow at the end? I hope I have not given offence by amending this to suit my own idea and I have put this message here in case a discussion should take place.
Why is Navy or Air Force classed by Wikipedia as military when my dictionary says they, military, are soldiers? I refer specifically to "Admiral of the Fleet is also used as a title in some of the world's militaries" but it holds true throughout Wikipedia. I'm beginning to feel militant about this. Hmmm, fleets of Wild Geese?
I can see this particular rank style or title (you choose) can reasonably be regarded as 'honorary' but I bet in this case the honorarium is substantial whereas in most cases an honorary post is described that way to indicate the poor holder of the post is unrewarded and must regard it as an honour to have been picked on. This follows through to succession boxes where "Honorary Titles" (some include holders of this particular Admiral of the Fleet post) include people posted to positions with real responsibility (I mean real liability for any mistakes in their duties under law) and many readers would assume that the rank/title was another bit of curiously antique hot air like 'Mother of the Nation' (joke) or whatever. Eddaido ( talk) 00:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
We've been over this a million times. Job titles are not proper nouns. See WP:JOBTITLES.
I'm going to ask for a non-controversial move request to be performed to put this right.
Shem ( talk) 18:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus, largely due to disagreement over whether Fleet is a proper noun or not. Number 5 7 11:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) → Admiral of the fleet (Royal Navy) – WP:JOBTITLES - long-standing consensus that military ranks are not capitalised unless used as part of a name (for example, admiral of the fleet. – Shem ( talk) 18:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: British official documentation from the period I study (1854-1919) capitalises Admiral of the Fleet - i.e. actual correspondence concerning the rank at the Admiralty. I can't reproduce from them because that would violate Crown Copyright. Two published examples off the top of my head: The Order in Council of 16 July 1914 concerning retirement regulations for the rank, capitalised in the singular and the plural. Many other printed orders in council will capitalise it. See also this announcement from 1940 when Admirals of the Fleet were put on a par with Field Marshals and kept on the Active List for life. — Simon Harley ( Talk | Library). 18:50, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
“ | By the Commissioners for Executing the Office of Lord High Admiral of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, &c To The Honourable Horace Lambert Alexander Hood C.B., M.V.O., D.S.O. hereby appointed Rear-Admiral in His Majesty's Fleet. By Virtue of the Power and Authority to us given by His Majesty's Letters Patent under the Great Seal, We do hereby constitute and appoint you Rear-Admiral in His Majesty's Fleet; Willing and requiring you forthwith to take upon you the Charge and Command of Rear-Admiral in the said Fleet accordingly, or the Charge and Command of any higher rank to which you may be promoted, the same being notified to you by us and Gazetted. On receiving an order from us to hoist your Flag you are to wear the same at the top mast-head on board any Ship or Vessel of the Squadron to which you shall have been appointed, and we do hereby will and require all Commanders, Captains and other Officers and Companies belonging thereto to be obedient to your Commands. And you are likewise to follow such Orders and Directions as you shall from time to time receive from us or any other your superior Officer for His Majesty's Service. And for so doing this shall be your Commission Given under our hands and the Seal of the Office of Admiralty this 23rd day of May 1913 In the fourth Year of His Majesty's Reign. |
” |
(transferred from my pesonal page)
I have reverted your attempt to move Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy). If you look at Talk:Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) you will see that there was a move request a year ago and that there was no consensus for a move. If you want to move it, try starting a new move request. -- David Biddulph ( talk) 09:45, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:23, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Insignia should be updated to replace Queen Elisabeth's royal cypher with that of King Charles. 2A01:CB04:7D8:3000:4520:8174:2882:26CE ( talk) 16:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A significant number of the biographical articles of past Admirals of the Fleet have styled the named officer as 'Admiral of the Fleet Sir Joe Bloggs' - this is not appropriate! Admiral of the Fleet is a rank, not a title. Further, to style someone as such is contradictory to the Wikipedia Manual of Style - no other articles fail to conform to such a vast extent! AJMW 18:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The Article on Thomas Cochrane, 10th Earl of Dundonald describes him as 'Great Admiral of the Fleet', a link that refers to this article- yet Cochrane is not mentioned by name or by title. Is the article on him inaccurate or incorrect or perhaps is the 'Great Admiral of the Fleet' a courtesy title? Proberton ( talk) 02:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
The sleeve rank insignia depicted has inaccurate dimensions, and the shoulder-board rank insignia is extremely inaccurate.
An officer of the rank of Admiral of the Fleet may be described as "great", but there is no such thing as the title "Great Admiral of the Fleet". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.216.163 ( talk) 11:53, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
The George V article states he was named Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) in 1910, but he does not appear here. Which is correct? Ecphora ( talk) 12:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Why don't the opening paragraphs of articles begin by describing or defining whatever it is Now or when last sighted? History can follow at the end? I hope I have not given offence by amending this to suit my own idea and I have put this message here in case a discussion should take place.
Why is Navy or Air Force classed by Wikipedia as military when my dictionary says they, military, are soldiers? I refer specifically to "Admiral of the Fleet is also used as a title in some of the world's militaries" but it holds true throughout Wikipedia. I'm beginning to feel militant about this. Hmmm, fleets of Wild Geese?
I can see this particular rank style or title (you choose) can reasonably be regarded as 'honorary' but I bet in this case the honorarium is substantial whereas in most cases an honorary post is described that way to indicate the poor holder of the post is unrewarded and must regard it as an honour to have been picked on. This follows through to succession boxes where "Honorary Titles" (some include holders of this particular Admiral of the Fleet post) include people posted to positions with real responsibility (I mean real liability for any mistakes in their duties under law) and many readers would assume that the rank/title was another bit of curiously antique hot air like 'Mother of the Nation' (joke) or whatever. Eddaido ( talk) 00:53, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
We've been over this a million times. Job titles are not proper nouns. See WP:JOBTITLES.
I'm going to ask for a non-controversial move request to be performed to put this right.
Shem ( talk) 18:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. No consensus, largely due to disagreement over whether Fleet is a proper noun or not. Number 5 7 11:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) → Admiral of the fleet (Royal Navy) – WP:JOBTITLES - long-standing consensus that military ranks are not capitalised unless used as part of a name (for example, admiral of the fleet. – Shem ( talk) 18:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Comment: British official documentation from the period I study (1854-1919) capitalises Admiral of the Fleet - i.e. actual correspondence concerning the rank at the Admiralty. I can't reproduce from them because that would violate Crown Copyright. Two published examples off the top of my head: The Order in Council of 16 July 1914 concerning retirement regulations for the rank, capitalised in the singular and the plural. Many other printed orders in council will capitalise it. See also this announcement from 1940 when Admirals of the Fleet were put on a par with Field Marshals and kept on the Active List for life. — Simon Harley ( Talk | Library). 18:50, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
“ | By the Commissioners for Executing the Office of Lord High Admiral of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, &c To The Honourable Horace Lambert Alexander Hood C.B., M.V.O., D.S.O. hereby appointed Rear-Admiral in His Majesty's Fleet. By Virtue of the Power and Authority to us given by His Majesty's Letters Patent under the Great Seal, We do hereby constitute and appoint you Rear-Admiral in His Majesty's Fleet; Willing and requiring you forthwith to take upon you the Charge and Command of Rear-Admiral in the said Fleet accordingly, or the Charge and Command of any higher rank to which you may be promoted, the same being notified to you by us and Gazetted. On receiving an order from us to hoist your Flag you are to wear the same at the top mast-head on board any Ship or Vessel of the Squadron to which you shall have been appointed, and we do hereby will and require all Commanders, Captains and other Officers and Companies belonging thereto to be obedient to your Commands. And you are likewise to follow such Orders and Directions as you shall from time to time receive from us or any other your superior Officer for His Majesty's Service. And for so doing this shall be your Commission Given under our hands and the Seal of the Office of Admiralty this 23rd day of May 1913 In the fourth Year of His Majesty's Reign. |
” |
(transferred from my pesonal page)
I have reverted your attempt to move Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy). If you look at Talk:Admiral of the Fleet (Royal Navy) you will see that there was a move request a year ago and that there was no consensus for a move. If you want to move it, try starting a new move request. -- David Biddulph ( talk) 09:45, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:23, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Insignia should be updated to replace Queen Elisabeth's royal cypher with that of King Charles. 2A01:CB04:7D8:3000:4520:8174:2882:26CE ( talk) 16:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)