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Specific dectrines please. This article does not state the specific beliefs of Adam Weishaupt and his organization. What they believe? What were the doctrines of this man and his friends? The article just talks vaguely about wanting to "free mankind"? What SPECFICIALLY does this mean?
90.211.148.248 ( talk) 20:08, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
You guys ever heard of WP:BRD? Discuss it here and quit with the edit war. My take on this is that even if he was from a Jewish family (and I don't see any reliable sources backing that up yet) he was educated at a Jesuit school and was knowledgeable enough about Catholicism to be a professor of canon law, and his philosophies were not based on Judaism so characterizing him as "German Jewish philosopher" in the lead is incorrect. Beeblebrox ( talk) 17:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
There were many cardinals whose ethnicity were Jewish, but their religion were Catholic. Weishaupt's ethnicity was Jewish and his religion was Catholic. -- Celebration1981 ( talk) 19:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Answer: No. I began researching Adam Weishaupt before there was an internet so I find humor in the claim: "90% of the pages about Weishaupt stated : Weishaupt had jewish origin". That does not prove anything. "I read it on the internet" is not a reliable source. What I have learned about Adam Weishaupt comes from hours in university libraries and archives in Germany and I never came across anything that would lead me to believe that Weishaupt was Jewish. If anyone has any proof to the contrary please show it. By "proof" I mean primary source material (like church records), or a reliable secondary source that references a primary source. Even the über-conspiracy theorist Nesta H. Webster wrote, "It has several times been stated that Weishaupt was himself a Jew. I cannot find the slightest evidence to this effect." Source Ouch! And this coming from the queen of conspiratorial cranks (and an anti-semite to boot). Her rejection of the "Weishaupt the Jew" thesis, in my mind, says it all.Jimaingram 02:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Weishaupt is exact translation of name Kagan (Kahan). His wife name Afra is not christian european name, but probably jewish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.23.189.241 ( talk) 18:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
What about Winston Churchill? He said that Adam (nicknamed Spartacus) Weishaupt was Jewish, nearly 100 years ago. "This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx," Geburah ( talk) 07:30, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
What an absurd claim, if those pages are what you are basing accusations of antisemitism on. He was referring to Rosicrucian and Freemason beliefs and instructions in most and mentioned Jews as members along with Christians Moslems and pagans. 71.184.121.115 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:41, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
The following I found at National Geographic, in turn quoting the History Magazine, which I believe are both to be considered reliable sources?
Quote; "HISTORY MAGAZINE Meet the Man Who Started the Illuminati How did a Bavarian professor end up creating a group that would be at the center of two centuries of conspiracy theories? By Isabel Hernández The 18th-century German thinker Adam Weishaupt would have been stunned if he had known his ideas would one day fuel global conspiracy theories, and inspire best-selling novels and blockbuster films. Until he was 36, the vast majority of his compatriots would have been equally stunned to discover that this outwardly respectable professor was a dangerous enemy of the state, whose secret society, the Illuminati, was seen to threaten the very fabric of society.
Born in 1748 in Ingolstadt, a city in the Electorate of Bavaria (now part of modern-day Germany), Weishaupt was a descendant of Jewish converts to Christianity. Orphaned at a young age, his scholarly uncle took care of his education, and enrolled him in a Jesuit school. After completing his studies, Weishaupt became a professor of natural and canon law at the University of Ingolstadt, married, and started a family. On the surface, it was a conventional enough career—until 1784 when the Bavarian state learned of his incendiary ideas." https://www.nationalgeographic.com/archaeology-and-history/magazine/2016/07-08/profile-adam-weishaupt-illuminati-secret-society/ Okama-San ( talk) 09:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
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I think it's fair to assume Weishaupt was jewish. NatGeo claims he is of jewish ancestry https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2016/07-08/profile-adam-weishaupt-illuminati-secret-society/ Rabbi Rabbi Marvin S Antelman and PM Winston Churchill also claimed he was jewish. Bcliot33 ( talk) 10:01, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Terry Melanson wrote in the article he spoke to a man who traced "Weishaupt family tree back to the 1633 year" but still he didn't give any proof or material about this conversation/exchange. The author Terry Melanson also explained he found "Weishaupt" in the list of an award winning compilation of jewish surnames in German-Jewish research, however, when trying to explain how Weishaupt was not jewish despite having a german-jewish surname he wrote that:" I don’t have an explanation for this". Bcliot33 ( talk) 12:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
XDev There is a big problem with your theory that Nesta Webster was the source consulted by Mr. Churchill, Mr. Melanson: Nesta Webster did say she believed Weishaupt was not jewish so you are either lying or misinformed. Since you are not a historian it seems Mr. Churchill and National Geographic have done their research better regarding Weishaupt jewish acenstry. You have also stated in your article that you have no idea how a a jewish surname like Weishaupt indicates that Weishaupt was not jewish and if those researches have looked into it.
Mdaviskinodblue (
talk) 16:19, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Sock of blocked user:
Bcliot33 (
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XDev Nowhere in the "French Revolution" book Nesta Webster claimed Weishauptwas jewish. That source you quoted above is citing a source but which is shown in the book preview. Do you have the original source? Because Mr. Churchill didn't get his source from there since Webster didn't say anywhere that Weishaupt was jewish. — Preceding
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Mdaviskinodblue (
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Bcliot33 (
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XDev A few minutes ago you have stated Churchill got his source from Webster. Then you said Webster wrote in her "French Revolution" book that Weishaupt was jewish but you stated she "later changed her mind". Since you could not provide a source to any of this, you have now changed your wording. Let me quote your latest wording: "It appears that Churchill interpreted Webster as meaning he was Jewish". Since Webster never wrote anywhere that Weinshaupt was jewish I'd like to ask you: when you said that Churchill got his source from her and that she changed her mind, was your imagination or you have simply not read carefully the sources you quoted? Is it fair to assume you didn't consult the source you have claimed to have read yourself before writing your article?
Mdaviskinodblue (
talk) 17:24, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Sock of blocked user:
Bcliot33 (
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XDev Regarding “Nesta Webster: The Voice of Conspiracy,” Journal of Women's History 17 (Fall 2005), 81–104 there is a huge problem as well. Let me quote the article written by Martha F. Lee: "Notably, Churchill's interpretation [of worldwide conspiracy] was Nesta Webster.". She provides no reference. That is interesting: both you and Martha F. Lee claim Churchill got influenced by Webster without providing a single reference, source or quote. I assume Martha F. Lee prefer to interpret history as if Churchill read Webster book and got antisemitic and started spreading the "conspiracy theory" that Weinshaupt was jewish because of Webster. Obviously without any reference and source about it, one would think how well "specialists" research on this subject before writing. — Preceding
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Mdaviskinodblue (
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Bcliot33 (
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If I may chime in. Weishaupt could be a Jewish name. Adam certainly is. But Johann is strictly a Christian name. I thought he was Jewish too. But I would guess no. Then again, this is only a guess. Many Jews have pure German name. Like Sigmund Freud, for example. Or Harrison Ford, who has a purely English name. I might add that a Jewish Jesuit in not unheard of at all. So be he Jewish or no, is still open for debate. Rosengarten Zu Worms ( talk) 13:14, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I removed the category "Former Jesuits" from this page. From what the page says, there is every reason to doubt this: the page explicitly says that Weishaupt became a professor in 1773, after the Jesuits were suppressed, because prior to 1773 professorships in canon law were only given to Jesuits. Logically, then, it follows that he was not a Jesuit.
Moreover, he married at age 25, and was never ordained a priest. So the only way he could be a Jesuit is if he had entered the order as a seminarian, and then left before ordination. If anyone has evidence that this is the case, please add it to the article.
Yes, he attended a Jesuit school, but obviously that doesn't make him a Jesuit! — Lawrence King ( talk) 06:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I agree with your edits. Good job!Jimaingram 02:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Jesuit polemicist Barruel says on page 51 of the Memoirs illustrating the history of Jacobism, Volume 4 ( [1] ) and cites Discussion on Societies, Vol. I section XXII. Is Barruel a reliable enough source here - he does go on a bit about the great Enlightenment figures like Diderot but accurately labels then atheists ? Ttiotsw ( talk) 10:35, 14 February 2010 (UTC) Barruel says of Weishaupt, "...he declares himself a downright Atheist..." Ttiotsw ( talk) 10:37, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I doubt the authenticity of the Jefferson quote regarding Weishaupt. Please provide source material or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.21.205 ( talk) 15:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Quoting Weishaupt's journal:
"The Great strength of our order lies in its conceilment, let it never appear in any place in its own name, but by another name, and another activity. None is fitter than Freemasonry. The public is accustomed to it, expect little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it." Adam Weishaupt (John Robinson’s Proofs of a Conspiracy, 1798, p. 112)
And it is known in some circles the Templars after being suppressed reformed into numerous orders including the Order of the Garter, Rosicrucians, Freemasonry, the Illuminati and the Jesuits; all founded by Templar elitist bloodlines. One of their own gives record:
"It is curious to note too that most of the bodies which work these, such as the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, the Rite of Avignon, the Order of the Temple, Fessler's Rite, the "Grand Council of the Emperors of the East and West -- Sovereign Prince Masons," etc., etc., are nearly all the offspring of the sons of Ignatius Loyola. The Baron Hundt, Chevalier Ramsay, Tschoudy, Zinnendorf, and numerous others who founded the grades in these rites, worked under instructions from the General of the Jesuits. The nest where these high degrees were hatched, and no Masonic rite is free from their baalful influence more or less, was the Jesuit College of Clermont at Paris." (Isis Unveiled, H. P. Blavatsky, p.390)
Ruler's of Evil by Tupper Saussy
In 1139 Pope Innocent issued a bull placing the Templars under an exclusive vow of papal obedience - a measure by which Aimeric effectively put all Templar resources at the disposal of the papacy. As their list of properties lengthened with donations from Italy, Austria, Germany, Hungary and the Holy Land, the Templars built hundreds of stone castles. Convinced they were building a new world, the Templars called each other frère maçon (brother mason). Later this was anglicized into Freemason.
Finally, on Friday, October 13, 1307, King Philip of France arrested all but thirteen of the Templars in France, tried them and, upon evidence of their practice of the cabalah, found them guilty of blasphemy and magic. At least fifty knights were burned at the stake.
A subtle provision in the Vox clamantis transferred most of the Templar estates to the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem, who took possesion after King Philip's death. In Germany and Austria, the Templars became "Rosicrucians" and "Teutonic Knights." The Teutonic Knights grew strong in Mainz, birthplace of Guetenberg's press. Six centuries later, as the "Teutonic Order," the Knights would provide the nucleus of Adolf Hitler's political support in Munich and Vienna.
The Edinburgh lodge would become the headquarters of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, which Masonic historians call "American Freemasonry" because all but five of the signers of the Declaration of Independence are said to have practiced its craft. In Spain and Portugal the Templars became the "Illuminati", and the "Knights of Christ." It was under the red pattée cross of the Knights of Christ that Columbus had taken possession of what he called "las Indias" for King Ferdinand V of Spain, the Holy Roman Emperor. (Rulers of Evil, p.39-40, Tupper Saussy)
207.119.109.32 ( talk) 22:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I think in recent days, too much and too many of the quotes from and about Weishaupt have been removed. The Jefferson quote, for one, should not have been removed. It is permissible to make such sweeping changes as have recently been made after discussion with other editors - but to remove whole swathes of material without discussing it first strikes me as rather impolite. I understand the view that quotes are best placed in Wikiquotes, but when I looked there, the quotes from the Adam Weishaupt article had not been fully included in Wikiquotes. So I personally think the recent removals of material from the Weishaupt article were too drastic and extreme. What do other editors think? Best wishes to you. From Anoot7 ( talk) 03:50, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering if someone would be so kind to put a translation in parentheses next to the names of the books, etc. under the Works section. Thanks. Mylittlezach ( talk) 01:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and could that translation be in English, please? Mylittlezach ( talk) 01:33, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
This article is not neutral, it is one sided. The references are from the RCC side of that debate from 1785. Geo Washington has been interjected in a way that suggests he had no connection with the subject, Weishaupt. JohnPritchard ( talk) 01:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Still not neutral. Look at this quote: "...but neither he nor his plan was evil or violent in and of themselves. It is one of the deplorable and tragic ironies of history that a man who tried to inculcate virtue, philanthropy, social justice and morality has become one of the great hate-figures of 21st-century ‘conspiracy’ thinking."[25]" If that's not biased, I don't know what is.
"After Weishaupt's Order of Illuminati was banned and its members dispersed, it left behind no enduring traces of an influence, not even on its own erstwhile members, who went on in the future to develop in quite different directions." Notice how this is all nicely tied up with a bow on top. No need to worry folks and have your "conspiracy theories" about the Illuminati still existing. See? It disappeared long ago with absolutely, 110% no influence on anybody, not even the people wrapped up in the group. Suuuurrrre.
It's all quite clearly trying to sugarcoat everything and paint it as some benevolent organization like the Red Cross or something. But it wasn't. This is from the article also: "The actual character of the society was an elaborate network of spies and counter-spies. Each isolated cell of initiates reported to a superior, whom they did not know: a party structure that was effectively adopted by some later groups." This is not a characteristic of some totally benign, altruistic group. Clearly, they had shady intentions, to say the least. It sounds very much like someone is trying hard to paint the Illuminati as some kind of warm and fuzzy group that ended long ago, faded into history. 209.179.71.76 ( talk) 03:04, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
is there any source on why Nicholas Ha gger should not be used here? His wiki page has nothing on conspiracy theorist. XDev have reverted two times without any source. You have talked about Terry Melanson in the third person but it was you all the time. You could add a WP:SECONDARY to prove your point otherwise it looks like you are using personal attack against himSock of blocked user: Bcliot33 ( talk · contribs)
I have read one of Adam Weishaupt's quotes who is famously known a as the founder of Illuminati.
Here's how the quotes
I did not bring Diesm into Bavaria from Rome I found it here.
You can find this on wiki quotes. Illuminavissem ( talk) 14:36, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Moved from Help talk:Adam Weishaupt -- John of Reading ( talk) 19:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
According John Robinson Johann Adam Weishaupt is one of the greatest conspirator of all time.
And also he died at the age of 82. Dos this make him one of the oldest person living in the age of enlightmeant Illuminavissem ( talk) 17:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
He is the greatist Conspirator of all time. And he should be in the most interesting people on earths books or something like that. GreatTruth123 ( talk) 19:32, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
- Small input - Concerning this individual (Weishaupt) and his connections (and implication in global conspiracies) there is a book called "Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe, Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati and Reading Societies, Collected From Good Authorities" by John Robinson, A. M. PROFESSOR OF NATURAL PHILOSOPHY, AND SECRETARY TO THE ROYAL SOCIETY OF EDINBURGH. published in 1794 (4th Edition). Without being partaking I believe that this book should be consulted for aditional information (with capital letters). Also, I do agree with the users that have noticed the one-sided perspective and the apologetic tone of this article (not to mention that this superflous approach is nothing more than a pamflet in the context of "encyclopedia"). Thank you and have a very nice day!
And always, the truth: "In the All we live and move and have our being" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.116.22 ( talk) 16:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Has the founder of Illuminati Adam Weishaupt ever been in pop cultures? Illuminavissem ( talk) 22:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Another version of Adam Weishaupt appears in the extensive comic book novel Cerebus the Aardvark by Dave Sim, as a combination of Weishaupt and George Washington. He appears primarily in the Cerebus and Church & State I volumes. His motives are republican confederalizing of city-states in Estarcion (a pseudo-Europe) and the accumulation of capital unencumbered by government or church. Weishaupt's name is one of many references made to the Illuminati and other conspiracies in the 2000 PC game Deus Ex. During JC Denton's escape from Versalife labs in Hong Kong, he recovers a virus engineered with the molecular structure in multiples of 17 and 23. Tracer Tong notes "1723... the birthdate of Adam Weishaupt" even though this reference is actually incorrect and the video game purposely spreads disinformation about Weishaupt's birth: Weishaupt was born in 1748. Adam Weishaupt is also mentioned ("Bush got a ouija to talk to Adam Weishaupt") by the New York rapper Cage in El-P's "Accidents Don't Happen", the ninth track on his album Fantastic Damage (2002). Adam Weishaupt is briefly mentioned in Umberto Eco's novel The Prague Cemetery.[19] Zakapedia
We need a Weishaupt mythology right away. Illuminavissem ( talk) 00:15, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
We'll I think a Weishaupt Mythology Would be a brilliant Idea Lest start It soon. Until we get ride of You!..... EsotericScience ( talk) 01:20, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
What if john Robinson was right, now I'm not saying he was right but what if he was right about Adam Weishaupt plans I mean the history of the enlightmeant era would of been very different right? Illuminavissem ( talk) 00:52, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Ian.thomson ( talk) 22:19, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Adam Weishaupt the founder of Illuminati inspired Percy Shelly? Where's the proof? Illuminavissem ( talk) 19:16, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Is Johann Adam Weishaupt in the history books? Illuminavissem ( talk) 21:53, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
I see further that the 'Pop Culture' section has been deleted. I support that deletion - not because such a topic has no intrinsic value or interest (I believe it does have such), but because as far as I could see, none of the matters referred to in that section was referenced or properly sourced. Best wishes to everyone, from Anoot7 ( talk) 05:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
It is agreed by many that this piece of informtaion be reinstated, as it is not only of interest to many, but true. I beleive this to be what I've spoken of previously, that their is a war on our true history and there are many within positions unfortunatley who are able to record the lies as fact, based on more lies. Thus making people honour those who are not honourable, throughout our history and those of current, within positons of authority, fame, social, economical, political, judicial infrastructures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.82.83.2 ( talk) 15:26, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Is their any translations to Adam Weishaupt (Founder of Illuminati) books. Zakapedia ( talk) 22:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
It's time to add some changes to Adam Weishaupt (Founder of Illuminati) biography. Zakapedia ( talk) 14:56, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
This is the most incongruous, confusing, and poorly written article I have seen in awhile. It is way below class C. It is such a long article to end up saying nothing about the man. It doesn't appear fixable without a rewrite. How did George Washington get intermingled with Weishaupt? Were they not on different continents?!? I'd be ashamed to have written this article. I would defy anyone who could make sense out of this "sentence":
I am not sure if there are spelling, grammar, semantic, or logic issues with this one sentence. The entire article rambles on without any facts or details and without concise descriptions of any biographical information. The article is written like a sophomore essay with a minimum word limit. And, let me state the obvious: who in the world is Kant, and how did he get involved with the subject of this article? I like to saw logs! ( talk) 02:22, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
@ 1llum1nat1: @ Fiddlersmouth:
This needs to be discussed. There are multiple and unrelated groups that have had the word "Illuminati" incorporated somewhere in their designation either by themselves or by opponents. As such, it seems incorrect to talk about "The Illuminati" as if they were/are a single monolithic organization. Rather, the specific names should be used. As such "The Order of Illuminati" (a specific group) is the correct nomenclature. The reason the Illuminati article uses just that phrase is that is the most common element in the various things the Bavarian Illuminati has been called. That only affects article titles, however, not how that specific group should be addressed in text. Ian.thomson ( talk) 02:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
1llum1nat1As I said to Fiddlersmouth, we do not refer to York as "English York" simply because several cities with derivative names exist and New York is more famous than any of them - It would sound absurd. For the same reason, calling something "The Bavarian Illuminati" only makes sense in a very narrow set of circumstances. "Order of the Illuminati" is much better, although it is not actually much more specific, because many groups calling themselves "Order of the Illumninati" also exist. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
1llum1nat1 (
talk •
contribs) 02:40, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
This needs to be discussed. There are multiple and unrelated groups that have had the word "Illuminati" incorporated somewhere in their designation either by themselves or by opponents. As such, it seems incorrect to talk about "The Illuminati" as if they were/are a single monolithic organization. Rather, the specific names should be used. As such "The Order of Illuminati" (a specific group) is the correct nomenclature. The reason the Illuminati article uses just that phrase is that is the most common element in the various things the Bavarian Illuminati has been called. That only affects article titles, however, not how that specific group should be addressed in text. Ian.thomson ( talk) 02:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
It's not a capitalization of the article, actually. The article is called "Illuminati", while the edited link is "The Illuminati", which is because organizations starting in "The" are capitalized that way. It should also be noted that other standard historians disagree with your standard historians: When a group comes first chronologically, it stakes a claim to the title it uses. Anyways, it's not relevant any longer, because "The Order of The Illuminati" is much nicer looking. 1llum1nat1 ( talk) 03:06, 11 February 2017 (UTC) 1llum1nat1
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The German Wikipedia states that Weishaupt died and was buried in Gotha, far from Berlin. Gotha was in former East Germany, and Weishaupt´s tombstone disappeared in 1969. There are aupposed to be photos however. Ontologix ( talk) 01:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
To whomever it is, please stop deleting my input anent “Afra” in “Frankfurt an Main” 2A00:23C7:2B13:9001:87:ECF4:D7C9:3C76 ( talk) 11:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
Who was in the real Illuminati? Was it all men? 2600:1012:B003:612:D83A:51A6:AD3:DBBE ( talk) 04:30, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
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Specific dectrines please. This article does not state the specific beliefs of Adam Weishaupt and his organization. What they believe? What were the doctrines of this man and his friends? The article just talks vaguely about wanting to "free mankind"? What SPECFICIALLY does this mean?
90.211.148.248 ( talk) 20:08, 8 May 2012 (UTC)
You guys ever heard of WP:BRD? Discuss it here and quit with the edit war. My take on this is that even if he was from a Jewish family (and I don't see any reliable sources backing that up yet) he was educated at a Jesuit school and was knowledgeable enough about Catholicism to be a professor of canon law, and his philosophies were not based on Judaism so characterizing him as "German Jewish philosopher" in the lead is incorrect. Beeblebrox ( talk) 17:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
There were many cardinals whose ethnicity were Jewish, but their religion were Catholic. Weishaupt's ethnicity was Jewish and his religion was Catholic. -- Celebration1981 ( talk) 19:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
Answer: No. I began researching Adam Weishaupt before there was an internet so I find humor in the claim: "90% of the pages about Weishaupt stated : Weishaupt had jewish origin". That does not prove anything. "I read it on the internet" is not a reliable source. What I have learned about Adam Weishaupt comes from hours in university libraries and archives in Germany and I never came across anything that would lead me to believe that Weishaupt was Jewish. If anyone has any proof to the contrary please show it. By "proof" I mean primary source material (like church records), or a reliable secondary source that references a primary source. Even the über-conspiracy theorist Nesta H. Webster wrote, "It has several times been stated that Weishaupt was himself a Jew. I cannot find the slightest evidence to this effect." Source Ouch! And this coming from the queen of conspiratorial cranks (and an anti-semite to boot). Her rejection of the "Weishaupt the Jew" thesis, in my mind, says it all.Jimaingram 02:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Weishaupt is exact translation of name Kagan (Kahan). His wife name Afra is not christian european name, but probably jewish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.23.189.241 ( talk) 18:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
What about Winston Churchill? He said that Adam (nicknamed Spartacus) Weishaupt was Jewish, nearly 100 years ago. "This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx," Geburah ( talk) 07:30, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
What an absurd claim, if those pages are what you are basing accusations of antisemitism on. He was referring to Rosicrucian and Freemason beliefs and instructions in most and mentioned Jews as members along with Christians Moslems and pagans. 71.184.121.115 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:41, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
The following I found at National Geographic, in turn quoting the History Magazine, which I believe are both to be considered reliable sources?
Quote; "HISTORY MAGAZINE Meet the Man Who Started the Illuminati How did a Bavarian professor end up creating a group that would be at the center of two centuries of conspiracy theories? By Isabel Hernández The 18th-century German thinker Adam Weishaupt would have been stunned if he had known his ideas would one day fuel global conspiracy theories, and inspire best-selling novels and blockbuster films. Until he was 36, the vast majority of his compatriots would have been equally stunned to discover that this outwardly respectable professor was a dangerous enemy of the state, whose secret society, the Illuminati, was seen to threaten the very fabric of society.
Born in 1748 in Ingolstadt, a city in the Electorate of Bavaria (now part of modern-day Germany), Weishaupt was a descendant of Jewish converts to Christianity. Orphaned at a young age, his scholarly uncle took care of his education, and enrolled him in a Jesuit school. After completing his studies, Weishaupt became a professor of natural and canon law at the University of Ingolstadt, married, and started a family. On the surface, it was a conventional enough career—until 1784 when the Bavarian state learned of his incendiary ideas." https://www.nationalgeographic.com/archaeology-and-history/magazine/2016/07-08/profile-adam-weishaupt-illuminati-secret-society/ Okama-San ( talk) 09:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
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I think it's fair to assume Weishaupt was jewish. NatGeo claims he is of jewish ancestry https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/magazine/2016/07-08/profile-adam-weishaupt-illuminati-secret-society/ Rabbi Rabbi Marvin S Antelman and PM Winston Churchill also claimed he was jewish. Bcliot33 ( talk) 10:01, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Terry Melanson wrote in the article he spoke to a man who traced "Weishaupt family tree back to the 1633 year" but still he didn't give any proof or material about this conversation/exchange. The author Terry Melanson also explained he found "Weishaupt" in the list of an award winning compilation of jewish surnames in German-Jewish research, however, when trying to explain how Weishaupt was not jewish despite having a german-jewish surname he wrote that:" I don’t have an explanation for this". Bcliot33 ( talk) 12:47, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
XDev There is a big problem with your theory that Nesta Webster was the source consulted by Mr. Churchill, Mr. Melanson: Nesta Webster did say she believed Weishaupt was not jewish so you are either lying or misinformed. Since you are not a historian it seems Mr. Churchill and National Geographic have done their research better regarding Weishaupt jewish acenstry. You have also stated in your article that you have no idea how a a jewish surname like Weishaupt indicates that Weishaupt was not jewish and if those researches have looked into it.
Mdaviskinodblue (
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Bcliot33 (
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XDev Nowhere in the "French Revolution" book Nesta Webster claimed Weishauptwas jewish. That source you quoted above is citing a source but which is shown in the book preview. Do you have the original source? Because Mr. Churchill didn't get his source from there since Webster didn't say anywhere that Weishaupt was jewish. — Preceding
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Mdaviskinodblue (
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Bcliot33 (
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XDev A few minutes ago you have stated Churchill got his source from Webster. Then you said Webster wrote in her "French Revolution" book that Weishaupt was jewish but you stated she "later changed her mind". Since you could not provide a source to any of this, you have now changed your wording. Let me quote your latest wording: "It appears that Churchill interpreted Webster as meaning he was Jewish". Since Webster never wrote anywhere that Weinshaupt was jewish I'd like to ask you: when you said that Churchill got his source from her and that she changed her mind, was your imagination or you have simply not read carefully the sources you quoted? Is it fair to assume you didn't consult the source you have claimed to have read yourself before writing your article?
Mdaviskinodblue (
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Bcliot33 (
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XDev Regarding “Nesta Webster: The Voice of Conspiracy,” Journal of Women's History 17 (Fall 2005), 81–104 there is a huge problem as well. Let me quote the article written by Martha F. Lee: "Notably, Churchill's interpretation [of worldwide conspiracy] was Nesta Webster.". She provides no reference. That is interesting: both you and Martha F. Lee claim Churchill got influenced by Webster without providing a single reference, source or quote. I assume Martha F. Lee prefer to interpret history as if Churchill read Webster book and got antisemitic and started spreading the "conspiracy theory" that Weinshaupt was jewish because of Webster. Obviously without any reference and source about it, one would think how well "specialists" research on this subject before writing. — Preceding
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Mdaviskinodblue (
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Bcliot33 (
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If I may chime in. Weishaupt could be a Jewish name. Adam certainly is. But Johann is strictly a Christian name. I thought he was Jewish too. But I would guess no. Then again, this is only a guess. Many Jews have pure German name. Like Sigmund Freud, for example. Or Harrison Ford, who has a purely English name. I might add that a Jewish Jesuit in not unheard of at all. So be he Jewish or no, is still open for debate. Rosengarten Zu Worms ( talk) 13:14, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
I removed the category "Former Jesuits" from this page. From what the page says, there is every reason to doubt this: the page explicitly says that Weishaupt became a professor in 1773, after the Jesuits were suppressed, because prior to 1773 professorships in canon law were only given to Jesuits. Logically, then, it follows that he was not a Jesuit.
Moreover, he married at age 25, and was never ordained a priest. So the only way he could be a Jesuit is if he had entered the order as a seminarian, and then left before ordination. If anyone has evidence that this is the case, please add it to the article.
Yes, he attended a Jesuit school, but obviously that doesn't make him a Jesuit! — Lawrence King ( talk) 06:57, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
For what it's worth, I agree with your edits. Good job!Jimaingram 02:54, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Jesuit polemicist Barruel says on page 51 of the Memoirs illustrating the history of Jacobism, Volume 4 ( [1] ) and cites Discussion on Societies, Vol. I section XXII. Is Barruel a reliable enough source here - he does go on a bit about the great Enlightenment figures like Diderot but accurately labels then atheists ? Ttiotsw ( talk) 10:35, 14 February 2010 (UTC) Barruel says of Weishaupt, "...he declares himself a downright Atheist..." Ttiotsw ( talk) 10:37, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
I doubt the authenticity of the Jefferson quote regarding Weishaupt. Please provide source material or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.21.205 ( talk) 15:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Quoting Weishaupt's journal:
"The Great strength of our order lies in its conceilment, let it never appear in any place in its own name, but by another name, and another activity. None is fitter than Freemasonry. The public is accustomed to it, expect little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it." Adam Weishaupt (John Robinson’s Proofs of a Conspiracy, 1798, p. 112)
And it is known in some circles the Templars after being suppressed reformed into numerous orders including the Order of the Garter, Rosicrucians, Freemasonry, the Illuminati and the Jesuits; all founded by Templar elitist bloodlines. One of their own gives record:
"It is curious to note too that most of the bodies which work these, such as the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, the Rite of Avignon, the Order of the Temple, Fessler's Rite, the "Grand Council of the Emperors of the East and West -- Sovereign Prince Masons," etc., etc., are nearly all the offspring of the sons of Ignatius Loyola. The Baron Hundt, Chevalier Ramsay, Tschoudy, Zinnendorf, and numerous others who founded the grades in these rites, worked under instructions from the General of the Jesuits. The nest where these high degrees were hatched, and no Masonic rite is free from their baalful influence more or less, was the Jesuit College of Clermont at Paris." (Isis Unveiled, H. P. Blavatsky, p.390)
Ruler's of Evil by Tupper Saussy
In 1139 Pope Innocent issued a bull placing the Templars under an exclusive vow of papal obedience - a measure by which Aimeric effectively put all Templar resources at the disposal of the papacy. As their list of properties lengthened with donations from Italy, Austria, Germany, Hungary and the Holy Land, the Templars built hundreds of stone castles. Convinced they were building a new world, the Templars called each other frère maçon (brother mason). Later this was anglicized into Freemason.
Finally, on Friday, October 13, 1307, King Philip of France arrested all but thirteen of the Templars in France, tried them and, upon evidence of their practice of the cabalah, found them guilty of blasphemy and magic. At least fifty knights were burned at the stake.
A subtle provision in the Vox clamantis transferred most of the Templar estates to the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem, who took possesion after King Philip's death. In Germany and Austria, the Templars became "Rosicrucians" and "Teutonic Knights." The Teutonic Knights grew strong in Mainz, birthplace of Guetenberg's press. Six centuries later, as the "Teutonic Order," the Knights would provide the nucleus of Adolf Hitler's political support in Munich and Vienna.
The Edinburgh lodge would become the headquarters of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, which Masonic historians call "American Freemasonry" because all but five of the signers of the Declaration of Independence are said to have practiced its craft. In Spain and Portugal the Templars became the "Illuminati", and the "Knights of Christ." It was under the red pattée cross of the Knights of Christ that Columbus had taken possession of what he called "las Indias" for King Ferdinand V of Spain, the Holy Roman Emperor. (Rulers of Evil, p.39-40, Tupper Saussy)
207.119.109.32 ( talk) 22:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
I think in recent days, too much and too many of the quotes from and about Weishaupt have been removed. The Jefferson quote, for one, should not have been removed. It is permissible to make such sweeping changes as have recently been made after discussion with other editors - but to remove whole swathes of material without discussing it first strikes me as rather impolite. I understand the view that quotes are best placed in Wikiquotes, but when I looked there, the quotes from the Adam Weishaupt article had not been fully included in Wikiquotes. So I personally think the recent removals of material from the Weishaupt article were too drastic and extreme. What do other editors think? Best wishes to you. From Anoot7 ( talk) 03:50, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
I was wondering if someone would be so kind to put a translation in parentheses next to the names of the books, etc. under the Works section. Thanks. Mylittlezach ( talk) 01:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
Oh, and could that translation be in English, please? Mylittlezach ( talk) 01:33, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
This article is not neutral, it is one sided. The references are from the RCC side of that debate from 1785. Geo Washington has been interjected in a way that suggests he had no connection with the subject, Weishaupt. JohnPritchard ( talk) 01:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Still not neutral. Look at this quote: "...but neither he nor his plan was evil or violent in and of themselves. It is one of the deplorable and tragic ironies of history that a man who tried to inculcate virtue, philanthropy, social justice and morality has become one of the great hate-figures of 21st-century ‘conspiracy’ thinking."[25]" If that's not biased, I don't know what is.
"After Weishaupt's Order of Illuminati was banned and its members dispersed, it left behind no enduring traces of an influence, not even on its own erstwhile members, who went on in the future to develop in quite different directions." Notice how this is all nicely tied up with a bow on top. No need to worry folks and have your "conspiracy theories" about the Illuminati still existing. See? It disappeared long ago with absolutely, 110% no influence on anybody, not even the people wrapped up in the group. Suuuurrrre.
It's all quite clearly trying to sugarcoat everything and paint it as some benevolent organization like the Red Cross or something. But it wasn't. This is from the article also: "The actual character of the society was an elaborate network of spies and counter-spies. Each isolated cell of initiates reported to a superior, whom they did not know: a party structure that was effectively adopted by some later groups." This is not a characteristic of some totally benign, altruistic group. Clearly, they had shady intentions, to say the least. It sounds very much like someone is trying hard to paint the Illuminati as some kind of warm and fuzzy group that ended long ago, faded into history. 209.179.71.76 ( talk) 03:04, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
is there any source on why Nicholas Ha gger should not be used here? His wiki page has nothing on conspiracy theorist. XDev have reverted two times without any source. You have talked about Terry Melanson in the third person but it was you all the time. You could add a WP:SECONDARY to prove your point otherwise it looks like you are using personal attack against himSock of blocked user: Bcliot33 ( talk · contribs)
I have read one of Adam Weishaupt's quotes who is famously known a as the founder of Illuminati.
Here's how the quotes
I did not bring Diesm into Bavaria from Rome I found it here.
You can find this on wiki quotes. Illuminavissem ( talk) 14:36, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Moved from Help talk:Adam Weishaupt -- John of Reading ( talk) 19:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
According John Robinson Johann Adam Weishaupt is one of the greatest conspirator of all time.
And also he died at the age of 82. Dos this make him one of the oldest person living in the age of enlightmeant Illuminavissem ( talk) 17:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
He is the greatist Conspirator of all time. And he should be in the most interesting people on earths books or something like that. GreatTruth123 ( talk) 19:32, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
- Small input - Concerning this individual (Weishaupt) and his connections (and implication in global conspiracies) there is a book called "Proofs of a Conspiracy Against All the Religions and Governments of Europe, Carried on in the Secret Meetings of Free Masons, Illuminati and Reading Societies, Collected From Good Authorities" by John Robinson, A. M. PROFESSOR OF NATURAL PHILOSOPHY, AND SECRETARY TO THE ROYAL SOCIETY OF EDINBURGH. published in 1794 (4th Edition). Without being partaking I believe that this book should be consulted for aditional information (with capital letters). Also, I do agree with the users that have noticed the one-sided perspective and the apologetic tone of this article (not to mention that this superflous approach is nothing more than a pamflet in the context of "encyclopedia"). Thank you and have a very nice day!
And always, the truth: "In the All we live and move and have our being" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.116.22 ( talk) 16:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Has the founder of Illuminati Adam Weishaupt ever been in pop cultures? Illuminavissem ( talk) 22:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Another version of Adam Weishaupt appears in the extensive comic book novel Cerebus the Aardvark by Dave Sim, as a combination of Weishaupt and George Washington. He appears primarily in the Cerebus and Church & State I volumes. His motives are republican confederalizing of city-states in Estarcion (a pseudo-Europe) and the accumulation of capital unencumbered by government or church. Weishaupt's name is one of many references made to the Illuminati and other conspiracies in the 2000 PC game Deus Ex. During JC Denton's escape from Versalife labs in Hong Kong, he recovers a virus engineered with the molecular structure in multiples of 17 and 23. Tracer Tong notes "1723... the birthdate of Adam Weishaupt" even though this reference is actually incorrect and the video game purposely spreads disinformation about Weishaupt's birth: Weishaupt was born in 1748. Adam Weishaupt is also mentioned ("Bush got a ouija to talk to Adam Weishaupt") by the New York rapper Cage in El-P's "Accidents Don't Happen", the ninth track on his album Fantastic Damage (2002). Adam Weishaupt is briefly mentioned in Umberto Eco's novel The Prague Cemetery.[19] Zakapedia
We need a Weishaupt mythology right away. Illuminavissem ( talk) 00:15, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
We'll I think a Weishaupt Mythology Would be a brilliant Idea Lest start It soon. Until we get ride of You!..... EsotericScience ( talk) 01:20, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
What if john Robinson was right, now I'm not saying he was right but what if he was right about Adam Weishaupt plans I mean the history of the enlightmeant era would of been very different right? Illuminavissem ( talk) 00:52, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Ian.thomson ( talk) 22:19, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Adam Weishaupt the founder of Illuminati inspired Percy Shelly? Where's the proof? Illuminavissem ( talk) 19:16, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Is Johann Adam Weishaupt in the history books? Illuminavissem ( talk) 21:53, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
I see further that the 'Pop Culture' section has been deleted. I support that deletion - not because such a topic has no intrinsic value or interest (I believe it does have such), but because as far as I could see, none of the matters referred to in that section was referenced or properly sourced. Best wishes to everyone, from Anoot7 ( talk) 05:01, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
It is agreed by many that this piece of informtaion be reinstated, as it is not only of interest to many, but true. I beleive this to be what I've spoken of previously, that their is a war on our true history and there are many within positions unfortunatley who are able to record the lies as fact, based on more lies. Thus making people honour those who are not honourable, throughout our history and those of current, within positons of authority, fame, social, economical, political, judicial infrastructures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.82.83.2 ( talk) 15:26, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Is their any translations to Adam Weishaupt (Founder of Illuminati) books. Zakapedia ( talk) 22:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
It's time to add some changes to Adam Weishaupt (Founder of Illuminati) biography. Zakapedia ( talk) 14:56, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
This is the most incongruous, confusing, and poorly written article I have seen in awhile. It is way below class C. It is such a long article to end up saying nothing about the man. It doesn't appear fixable without a rewrite. How did George Washington get intermingled with Weishaupt? Were they not on different continents?!? I'd be ashamed to have written this article. I would defy anyone who could make sense out of this "sentence":
I am not sure if there are spelling, grammar, semantic, or logic issues with this one sentence. The entire article rambles on without any facts or details and without concise descriptions of any biographical information. The article is written like a sophomore essay with a minimum word limit. And, let me state the obvious: who in the world is Kant, and how did he get involved with the subject of this article? I like to saw logs! ( talk) 02:22, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
@ 1llum1nat1: @ Fiddlersmouth:
This needs to be discussed. There are multiple and unrelated groups that have had the word "Illuminati" incorporated somewhere in their designation either by themselves or by opponents. As such, it seems incorrect to talk about "The Illuminati" as if they were/are a single monolithic organization. Rather, the specific names should be used. As such "The Order of Illuminati" (a specific group) is the correct nomenclature. The reason the Illuminati article uses just that phrase is that is the most common element in the various things the Bavarian Illuminati has been called. That only affects article titles, however, not how that specific group should be addressed in text. Ian.thomson ( talk) 02:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
1llum1nat1As I said to Fiddlersmouth, we do not refer to York as "English York" simply because several cities with derivative names exist and New York is more famous than any of them - It would sound absurd. For the same reason, calling something "The Bavarian Illuminati" only makes sense in a very narrow set of circumstances. "Order of the Illuminati" is much better, although it is not actually much more specific, because many groups calling themselves "Order of the Illumninati" also exist. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
1llum1nat1 (
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This needs to be discussed. There are multiple and unrelated groups that have had the word "Illuminati" incorporated somewhere in their designation either by themselves or by opponents. As such, it seems incorrect to talk about "The Illuminati" as if they were/are a single monolithic organization. Rather, the specific names should be used. As such "The Order of Illuminati" (a specific group) is the correct nomenclature. The reason the Illuminati article uses just that phrase is that is the most common element in the various things the Bavarian Illuminati has been called. That only affects article titles, however, not how that specific group should be addressed in text. Ian.thomson ( talk) 02:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
It's not a capitalization of the article, actually. The article is called "Illuminati", while the edited link is "The Illuminati", which is because organizations starting in "The" are capitalized that way. It should also be noted that other standard historians disagree with your standard historians: When a group comes first chronologically, it stakes a claim to the title it uses. Anyways, it's not relevant any longer, because "The Order of The Illuminati" is much nicer looking. 1llum1nat1 ( talk) 03:06, 11 February 2017 (UTC) 1llum1nat1
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The German Wikipedia states that Weishaupt died and was buried in Gotha, far from Berlin. Gotha was in former East Germany, and Weishaupt´s tombstone disappeared in 1969. There are aupposed to be photos however. Ontologix ( talk) 01:36, 20 June 2022 (UTC)
To whomever it is, please stop deleting my input anent “Afra” in “Frankfurt an Main” 2A00:23C7:2B13:9001:87:ECF4:D7C9:3C76 ( talk) 11:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
Who was in the real Illuminati? Was it all men? 2600:1012:B003:612:D83A:51A6:AD3:DBBE ( talk) 04:30, 23 February 2023 (UTC)