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Adal Kingdom was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 1 April 2019 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Adal Sultanate. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
The peak of Adal is during Sultan Badlay and Walasma rule whom have links to the Eritrean coast as well as Zeila. Not during Ahmed's conquest. See the references in the article. Pankhurst barely reviewed Futuh al-Habasha anyway, the main authorities for Futuh are researchers like Amelie Chekroun. The term Badlay itself in the sultan's name refers to ruler of the upper country thats the connotation behind Badlay in ethio semitic. We can argue under Ahmed it was the most powerful state because it annexed Abyssinia entirely. Magherbin ( talk) 18:26, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
Why was the previous map removed 92.0.101.255 ( talk) 14:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
@ User:CqHydra The abundance of references indicate the capital was in the Harar plateau in eastern Ethiopia, it was not in northern Somalia. Do not alter the wording in the article the references specifically states Harar plateau not Sahil or Siyara [6] Here is a list of references on its origin being the Harar plateau aside from whats already in the article:
"Failing to check ethiopian power, the sultans of ifat moved eastward to the region of the harar plateau where they founded the new kingdom of Adal" p.77 [7]
"Later in the fourteenth century, the most militant leaders of Islam in the Horn of Africa moved further east and established the kingdom of Adal in the Harar plateau" p.100 [8]
"However, it could possibly refer to al-ʿAdal, ruled by the Walāsmaʿ dynasty, which was based in Harär after the 14th century," p.81 [9]
"the latter part of the 14th century, Adal became the leading Muslim principality in the south-eastern areas, with its capital Harar as the significant Islamic centre for the whole region" p.57 [10]
"In the east, the Muslims were led by Adal, Yifat's militant successor. Located around Harer," p.16 [11]
"Adal, Ifat's militant successor. Located in the semidesert Harer region, Adal" p.100 [12]
"Yifat was eventually replaced by a new paramount Muslim emirate in the eastern highlands, Adal, with harar as its center." p.179 [13]
"Adal, historic Islāmic state of eastern Africa, in the Danakil-Somali region southwest of the Gulf of Aden, with its capital at Harer (now in Ethiopia). Its rivalry with Christian Ethiopia began in the 14th century with minor border raids and skirmishes." [14]
"his sons escaped and returned to the harari plateau, assumed the title of Sultans of Adal" p.27 [15]
"But the fourteenth-century rise of a Walasma dynasty in the Harar region, led by large numbers of people who were clearly of Ifat origin" p.150 [16]
"It is important to note in this connection that the ancient walled city of Harar and its environs, where Harari and Argobba are now spoken were precisely the new political centres estabslihed by the Muslim Walasma princes exiled from Ifat" p.427 [17]
"eventually established the sultanate of adal in the highland districts around present-day Harar" p.64 [18]
"Sa’ad ad-dīn et le royaume chrétien, le pouvoir s’installa dans une zone plus orientale,l’« ‘Adal », dans l’actuel région administrative du East-Harargue, entre la ville de Harar et la frontière somalienne. Ce déplacement du centre du pouvoir a probablement eu lieu sous le règne du fils de Sa’ad ad-dīn, Sabr ad-dīn, qui régna selon l’Histoire des Walasma’ entre l’année 1415 et l’année 1421-22" p.145 [19] Magherbin ( talk) 17:27, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
This map is absolutely asinine. If it wasn't made by a person with an Arabic username, I would assume they were some Abyssinian nationalist. The historical documentation all supports the fact that, at its peak, Adal ranged from Suakin in Sudan, to Cape Guardafui in Northern Somalia. "At the cost of incredible human losses on both sides, Imam Ahmad succeeded in creating a bogus fabric of an empire that included most of what is today Ethiopia and northern Somalia up to Cape Gardafu if not to Mogadishu. This was the first and the last forced unification of the Horn. In this vast area, especially in the central highlands, a certain administrative order was established as symbolized by the appointment of Muhammed Ibrahim, the brother of the Imam in Harar region, of Wazir Adole, at first in Bali and later as the supreme commander and administrator of the whole south and central part of the Christian kingdom, of Amir Husayn bin Abu Bakar Gatouri for Dawaro, and of Wazir Abbas, the uncle of the Imam, as the overall commander and administrator of the northern section, including the Red Sea region of/Eritrea."
The previous map should be reverted, as that was clearly more accurate. Sarkissati ( talk) 17:38, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
i added first hand primary sources then it was removed because quote on quote 'Using excessive primary sources is inappropriate especially when you're including content that disagrees with secondary sources '. There are only 3 primary sources, The only source that goes in detail about the demographics in the adal-abyssinian war is a book called futuh al habesh, if its inappropriate to use primary source just because it disagrees with the secondary source then that would mean the secondary source is incorrect.
Moreover the adal sultanate section seem to use second hand sources when there are first hand sources from accounts like arab faqih who witnessed the adal Abyssinian wars
both primary sources and secondary sources both allude that somalis made up most of the fighting force in adal-abyssinian wars
there are currently 9 arabic manuscripts discovered by french researchers. it was written by Arab Faqih who witnessed the events
after the victory In the battle of shimbara kura arab faqih credits the somalis in the battle of shimbara kura saying 'their role in the shimbara kura is truly gods doing'
Arab Faqih credits Somalis for the victory of Shimbara Kura
Their chieftains, however, stood firm: Mattan bin 'Utman the Somali,brother-in-law of the imam Ahmad, may the Most High God have mercy upon him, fought a fine jihad. Holding firm with him was Ahmad Girri and Ali Garad, Mattan's brother and Farasaham Tal, brother of Beara; and 'Ali MadJira from the tribe of Mattan; and Husain Musa Bin *Abd Allah Makida; and Yussef Latahia, from the tribe of Ahmad Girti. Their achievements this day truly are God's doing [1]
Secondary sources and contemporary writers conclude that adal fighting force were somali like historian I.m lewis who attributed the victories of Adal Sultanate to somali clans
I.M Lewis writes
Somali forces contributed much to the Imām’s victories. Shihāb ad-Dīn, the Muslim chronicler of the period, writing between 1540 and 1560, mentions them frequently (Futūḥ al-Ḥabasha, ed. And trs. R. Besset Paris, 1897). The most prominent Somali groups in the campaigns were the Geri, Marrehān, and Harti – all Dārod clans. Shihāb ad-Dīn is very vague as to their distribution and grazing areas, but describes the Harti as at the time in possession of the ancient eastern port of Mait. [2]
To futher add on oxford history of Islam state that Somalis were the majority in the adal-abyssinian war
Oxford history of Islam writes
The sultanate of Adal, which emerged as the major Muslim principality from 1420 to 1560, seems to have recruited its military force mainly from among the Somalis. In its wars with the Christian state of Ethiopia [3]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthony Walcott ( talk • contribs) 02:15, July 19, 2023 (UTC)
References
On page 346 of the book Narrative of the Portuguese embassy to Abyssinia during the years 1520-1527 by Father Francisco Alvarez translated by Lord Stanley of Aldery it says:
"The Kingdom of Adel (as they say) is a large kingdom, and it extends over the Cape of Guardafuy, and there in that part another rules subject to Adel. Among the Moors they hold this King of Adel for a saint, because he always makes war upon the Christians; and he sends of the spoils of his battles (as they say) offerings to the house of Mekkah, and to Cairo, and presents to other kings, and they send him from their parts arms and horses, and other things to assist him in his wars; and I have before related, in Chapter cxxxiii, how this king was routed and his captain Mafudy killed. This kingdom of Adel borders upon the kingdom of Fatigar and Xoa, which are kingdoms of the Prester John".
[1]
In the book The Ethiopian-Adal War 1529-1543, the author Jeffrey M. Shaw concludes that the king in question who makes war upon the Christians is Ahmed Gurey. In the same book, on page 52 he details an image of the Adal Sultanate along with other states in the Horn of Africa, dated to the year 1500 which is before the war and expansion. The borders are much farther to the east than the one currently shown and goes much deeper into Somali territory. [2] The current map doesn't show the extent of the sultanate in 1540 which I believe it should like many of the other maps of kingdoms and sultanates on Wikipedia. Limegreencoral ( talk) 06:17, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
References
@ Limegreencoral, Zeila wasnt founded at the same time of Adal Sultanate, we arent going to add the history of towns on an article about Adal Sultanate. The reference makes no mention of Adal anyway hence its original research. The statement can be moved to Somali peoples or the relevant towns history section. The reference implies the towns existed during the Roman empire where trade existed between Somalis and Romans, Adal didnt exist during the Roman empire perhaps those towns did. This is therefore off topic when passages are cited they need to stay on the topic concerning the subject at hand. Magherbin ( talk) 14:42, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Dembiya was recently added as the capital of Adal Sultanate, this is inaccurate because the capital of the state is where the Sultan was located which was in Harar. Ahmed was not the sultan hence where he settled would not be the capital of Adal. Magherbin ( talk) 05:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
After a "short stay" in his capital in 1528 he began preparations for a second expedition (...) Having thus imposed his will on the nominal rulers Gran embarked on another expedition, this time to Bali, after which he remained two months in the capital, before setting forth on further conquests which were to take him across the entire length and breath of the Ethiopian Empire.
Dakar wasn’t the capital in the early years of Sabr Ad din’s reign that was Siyaro Al Maqrizi mentions that the 10 brothers landed in Siyaro first and Ba’lawi manuscript mentions it as their base Matan ibn Uthman ( talk) 01:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Al-Umari mentioning the seasons of Bil and Karam are Ethio-Semetic words. The first month of the Ethiopian calander is called Maskaram and Karam/kirmi signify summer rains. Belg is a winter season in Ethiopia. Somalis don't use Bil and Karam, the source linked makes some poor connection between bil, and for karam, that is only found in the North. It is just factually incorrect so it had to be removed. GetRektLLLLL ( talk) 05:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Adal Sultanate article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the
Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Adal Kingdom was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 1 April 2019 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Adal Sultanate. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
The peak of Adal is during Sultan Badlay and Walasma rule whom have links to the Eritrean coast as well as Zeila. Not during Ahmed's conquest. See the references in the article. Pankhurst barely reviewed Futuh al-Habasha anyway, the main authorities for Futuh are researchers like Amelie Chekroun. The term Badlay itself in the sultan's name refers to ruler of the upper country thats the connotation behind Badlay in ethio semitic. We can argue under Ahmed it was the most powerful state because it annexed Abyssinia entirely. Magherbin ( talk) 18:26, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
Why was the previous map removed 92.0.101.255 ( talk) 14:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
@ User:CqHydra The abundance of references indicate the capital was in the Harar plateau in eastern Ethiopia, it was not in northern Somalia. Do not alter the wording in the article the references specifically states Harar plateau not Sahil or Siyara [6] Here is a list of references on its origin being the Harar plateau aside from whats already in the article:
"Failing to check ethiopian power, the sultans of ifat moved eastward to the region of the harar plateau where they founded the new kingdom of Adal" p.77 [7]
"Later in the fourteenth century, the most militant leaders of Islam in the Horn of Africa moved further east and established the kingdom of Adal in the Harar plateau" p.100 [8]
"However, it could possibly refer to al-ʿAdal, ruled by the Walāsmaʿ dynasty, which was based in Harär after the 14th century," p.81 [9]
"the latter part of the 14th century, Adal became the leading Muslim principality in the south-eastern areas, with its capital Harar as the significant Islamic centre for the whole region" p.57 [10]
"In the east, the Muslims were led by Adal, Yifat's militant successor. Located around Harer," p.16 [11]
"Adal, Ifat's militant successor. Located in the semidesert Harer region, Adal" p.100 [12]
"Yifat was eventually replaced by a new paramount Muslim emirate in the eastern highlands, Adal, with harar as its center." p.179 [13]
"Adal, historic Islāmic state of eastern Africa, in the Danakil-Somali region southwest of the Gulf of Aden, with its capital at Harer (now in Ethiopia). Its rivalry with Christian Ethiopia began in the 14th century with minor border raids and skirmishes." [14]
"his sons escaped and returned to the harari plateau, assumed the title of Sultans of Adal" p.27 [15]
"But the fourteenth-century rise of a Walasma dynasty in the Harar region, led by large numbers of people who were clearly of Ifat origin" p.150 [16]
"It is important to note in this connection that the ancient walled city of Harar and its environs, where Harari and Argobba are now spoken were precisely the new political centres estabslihed by the Muslim Walasma princes exiled from Ifat" p.427 [17]
"eventually established the sultanate of adal in the highland districts around present-day Harar" p.64 [18]
"Sa’ad ad-dīn et le royaume chrétien, le pouvoir s’installa dans une zone plus orientale,l’« ‘Adal », dans l’actuel région administrative du East-Harargue, entre la ville de Harar et la frontière somalienne. Ce déplacement du centre du pouvoir a probablement eu lieu sous le règne du fils de Sa’ad ad-dīn, Sabr ad-dīn, qui régna selon l’Histoire des Walasma’ entre l’année 1415 et l’année 1421-22" p.145 [19] Magherbin ( talk) 17:27, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
This map is absolutely asinine. If it wasn't made by a person with an Arabic username, I would assume they were some Abyssinian nationalist. The historical documentation all supports the fact that, at its peak, Adal ranged from Suakin in Sudan, to Cape Guardafui in Northern Somalia. "At the cost of incredible human losses on both sides, Imam Ahmad succeeded in creating a bogus fabric of an empire that included most of what is today Ethiopia and northern Somalia up to Cape Gardafu if not to Mogadishu. This was the first and the last forced unification of the Horn. In this vast area, especially in the central highlands, a certain administrative order was established as symbolized by the appointment of Muhammed Ibrahim, the brother of the Imam in Harar region, of Wazir Adole, at first in Bali and later as the supreme commander and administrator of the whole south and central part of the Christian kingdom, of Amir Husayn bin Abu Bakar Gatouri for Dawaro, and of Wazir Abbas, the uncle of the Imam, as the overall commander and administrator of the northern section, including the Red Sea region of/Eritrea."
The previous map should be reverted, as that was clearly more accurate. Sarkissati ( talk) 17:38, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
i added first hand primary sources then it was removed because quote on quote 'Using excessive primary sources is inappropriate especially when you're including content that disagrees with secondary sources '. There are only 3 primary sources, The only source that goes in detail about the demographics in the adal-abyssinian war is a book called futuh al habesh, if its inappropriate to use primary source just because it disagrees with the secondary source then that would mean the secondary source is incorrect.
Moreover the adal sultanate section seem to use second hand sources when there are first hand sources from accounts like arab faqih who witnessed the adal Abyssinian wars
both primary sources and secondary sources both allude that somalis made up most of the fighting force in adal-abyssinian wars
there are currently 9 arabic manuscripts discovered by french researchers. it was written by Arab Faqih who witnessed the events
after the victory In the battle of shimbara kura arab faqih credits the somalis in the battle of shimbara kura saying 'their role in the shimbara kura is truly gods doing'
Arab Faqih credits Somalis for the victory of Shimbara Kura
Their chieftains, however, stood firm: Mattan bin 'Utman the Somali,brother-in-law of the imam Ahmad, may the Most High God have mercy upon him, fought a fine jihad. Holding firm with him was Ahmad Girri and Ali Garad, Mattan's brother and Farasaham Tal, brother of Beara; and 'Ali MadJira from the tribe of Mattan; and Husain Musa Bin *Abd Allah Makida; and Yussef Latahia, from the tribe of Ahmad Girti. Their achievements this day truly are God's doing [1]
Secondary sources and contemporary writers conclude that adal fighting force were somali like historian I.m lewis who attributed the victories of Adal Sultanate to somali clans
I.M Lewis writes
Somali forces contributed much to the Imām’s victories. Shihāb ad-Dīn, the Muslim chronicler of the period, writing between 1540 and 1560, mentions them frequently (Futūḥ al-Ḥabasha, ed. And trs. R. Besset Paris, 1897). The most prominent Somali groups in the campaigns were the Geri, Marrehān, and Harti – all Dārod clans. Shihāb ad-Dīn is very vague as to their distribution and grazing areas, but describes the Harti as at the time in possession of the ancient eastern port of Mait. [2]
To futher add on oxford history of Islam state that Somalis were the majority in the adal-abyssinian war
Oxford history of Islam writes
The sultanate of Adal, which emerged as the major Muslim principality from 1420 to 1560, seems to have recruited its military force mainly from among the Somalis. In its wars with the Christian state of Ethiopia [3]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthony Walcott ( talk • contribs) 02:15, July 19, 2023 (UTC)
References
On page 346 of the book Narrative of the Portuguese embassy to Abyssinia during the years 1520-1527 by Father Francisco Alvarez translated by Lord Stanley of Aldery it says:
"The Kingdom of Adel (as they say) is a large kingdom, and it extends over the Cape of Guardafuy, and there in that part another rules subject to Adel. Among the Moors they hold this King of Adel for a saint, because he always makes war upon the Christians; and he sends of the spoils of his battles (as they say) offerings to the house of Mekkah, and to Cairo, and presents to other kings, and they send him from their parts arms and horses, and other things to assist him in his wars; and I have before related, in Chapter cxxxiii, how this king was routed and his captain Mafudy killed. This kingdom of Adel borders upon the kingdom of Fatigar and Xoa, which are kingdoms of the Prester John".
[1]
In the book The Ethiopian-Adal War 1529-1543, the author Jeffrey M. Shaw concludes that the king in question who makes war upon the Christians is Ahmed Gurey. In the same book, on page 52 he details an image of the Adal Sultanate along with other states in the Horn of Africa, dated to the year 1500 which is before the war and expansion. The borders are much farther to the east than the one currently shown and goes much deeper into Somali territory. [2] The current map doesn't show the extent of the sultanate in 1540 which I believe it should like many of the other maps of kingdoms and sultanates on Wikipedia. Limegreencoral ( talk) 06:17, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
References
@ Limegreencoral, Zeila wasnt founded at the same time of Adal Sultanate, we arent going to add the history of towns on an article about Adal Sultanate. The reference makes no mention of Adal anyway hence its original research. The statement can be moved to Somali peoples or the relevant towns history section. The reference implies the towns existed during the Roman empire where trade existed between Somalis and Romans, Adal didnt exist during the Roman empire perhaps those towns did. This is therefore off topic when passages are cited they need to stay on the topic concerning the subject at hand. Magherbin ( talk) 14:42, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
Dembiya was recently added as the capital of Adal Sultanate, this is inaccurate because the capital of the state is where the Sultan was located which was in Harar. Ahmed was not the sultan hence where he settled would not be the capital of Adal. Magherbin ( talk) 05:52, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
After a "short stay" in his capital in 1528 he began preparations for a second expedition (...) Having thus imposed his will on the nominal rulers Gran embarked on another expedition, this time to Bali, after which he remained two months in the capital, before setting forth on further conquests which were to take him across the entire length and breath of the Ethiopian Empire.
Dakar wasn’t the capital in the early years of Sabr Ad din’s reign that was Siyaro Al Maqrizi mentions that the 10 brothers landed in Siyaro first and Ba’lawi manuscript mentions it as their base Matan ibn Uthman ( talk) 01:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Al-Umari mentioning the seasons of Bil and Karam are Ethio-Semetic words. The first month of the Ethiopian calander is called Maskaram and Karam/kirmi signify summer rains. Belg is a winter season in Ethiopia. Somalis don't use Bil and Karam, the source linked makes some poor connection between bil, and for karam, that is only found in the North. It is just factually incorrect so it had to be removed. GetRektLLLLL ( talk) 05:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)