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I think the merge should be put on hold as there is information that al Muahjir is actually a Libyan (or possibly a Yemeni) and has been described as a devotee to Shari'a law. There is reliable information that Abu al Masri is an explosives expert and actually trained others in the use of explosives in Afghanistan whereas the information I have seen about al Muhajer mentions nothing about explosives and concentrates more on his idealogical interests and his role in the indoctrination of new members. Already there are reports emanating from US authorities which are merging this information into one character.
The US Military has identified al-Muhajir as al-Masri. I have stated this in the article, but at this stage in time I feel it's a bit early to merge the articles. Just because the US says so.... - Dark Prime, June 17th 2006 ---merge--then edit...
The stories I've seen so far are "This is who the CIA thinks he really is." It should be mentioned, but I'd wait a few days before merging. -- Falcorian (talk) 17:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
The DOD refers to him as al-Masri, so the other article should be merged into this one, as to streamline things. ( Tofumatt 20:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC))
I suggest removal of Sam Pender's supposed pre-Bush timeline of Al-Qaeda ties to Iraq, mostly due to the irrelevence of said chronolgy to al-Masri. Additionally, the subject matter of the source does not even fulfill its aim (pre-Bush Al-Qaeda ties to Iraq). In short, I cannot see citation of the source as meeting Wikipedia's quality standards.
From Wikipedia's own page defining what a military is- "A military is a heavily-armed, highly organized force primarily intended for warfare, also known collectively as armed forces. It is typically officially authorized and maintained by a sovereign state, with its members identifiable by their distinct military uniform. It may consist of one or more military branches such as an Army, Navy, Air Force and in certain countries, Marines and Coast Guard. The main task of the military is usually defined as defense of the state and its interests against external armed threats." This person was an illegal combatant who did not serve in any military nor represent any nation, nor did he wear a uniform or insignia, nor did he earn any rank, nor meet the definition of a military service member by the Hague of Geneva conventions or by any legal or traditional definition. All reference to "Military service" should be removed, not only from this page, but also from the pages of of Bin Laden, Baghdadi, and all terrorist leaders. 24.246.101.2 ( talk) 14:35, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Reportedly so: [1] Minutiaman 08:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
[2] Apparently, he's not dead.
Oh, wait... he's dead again. Fox News is reporting that the US Military confirms his death again. 67.100.218.210 ( talk) 15:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep. He's finally been confirmed dead. Article edited accordingly. TheLarrikin ( talk) 15:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I would omit all mention of this silly and disproven claim, which seems to have been a publicity stunt by the Egyptian lawyer who first made it, promptly lapped up by al-Jazeera.
LDH 05:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I axed that b.s.
Abu Hamza al-Muhajir is a rampaging butcher and one of the most wanted criminals in the world. This article is not the place to be copying and pasting rumours and speculation about him that come from reckless journalists and incompetent bloggers. This is not Usenet.
LDH 04:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Tired of waiting in vain, I restored the 4 April 2007 version, which has many improvements over the incompetent June 2006 version. (BTW the guy who started the false rumour about Abu Ayyub being in jail in Egypt, namely Mamdouh Ismail, is in the news again.) LDH 05:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Not even al-Qaeda denies it. And I did merge the two pieces a while ago. But somebody here at Wiki insists on using the article Abu Hamza al-Muhajir for no purpose except to commemorate a false rumour started in June 2006 by Mamdouh Ismail. See above for the same problem that I had with another Wiki user, Lft6771. LDH 07:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, merge it... considering how the news media, officials and insurgents always identify the two names with him, it's totally pointless to have two separate articles. Ever heard of something called an alias or nom de guerre? Look, if it's necessary, there can be a section which covers the name mixup. - Prezboy1 20:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0169719520070501
Just reporting, do what you will with this piece. Blue Mirage | Comment 08:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Your point is? Blue Mirage | Comment 21:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
( http://oxiderules.proboards84.com/) Iraqi officials have claimed he's dead before. Even they admit they can't confirm right now. In the interest of accuracy, nothing should be said of his "death" on wikipedia until it's confirmed through either DNA testing or a US official.-- 65.96.203.131 10:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be getting closer. Seems the Iraqi Disinformation (err Interior) Ministry has gotten al-Masri and al-Baghdadi (which they claimed was the guy killed after the al-Masri link went stale) confused with Muharib Abdul-Latif al-Jubouri who was something like the head of the AQI press office. It seems the latter guy is actually and truly dead; the Coalition seemed pretty confident about it. If they stick to that for the next 24 hours or so, at latest, I think it can be considered confirmed for the time being. Dysmorodrepanis 19:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I reading up that he's dead too on sources from military. Wonder which is right, dead or not, I guess the same is said about Bin Laden The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 18:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I still think that for the sake of consistency, the articles should be merged. They are very painful to maintain in the present state. BUT it should be denoted what refers to which name. Should be tracked too. Eg I am fairly certain that the ISI has never referred to its "minister of war" as al-Masri but only al-Muhajir. But I have also no knowledge of both al-Masri and al-Muhajir being used at the same opportunity for 2 different persons.
Dysmorodrepanis
21:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Following paragraph was deleted because it contains incorrect or outdated information.
"Terror consultant Evan Kohlmann said he has never heard of Muhajir. “This individual has never before been featured in any piece of al-Qaeda propaganda, be it video, audio or text communiqué,” he said. “To my knowledge, he has never been cited publicly by the U.S. military or the Multinational Forces in Iraq as a major figure in al-Zarqawi’s network.” [1]"
In a post from his blog Evan Kohlmann said that Al Qaida confirms in a formal statement that al-Muhajir is a member of its organization. [4]
References
Alexis Debat's credibility has been discussed, in particular after having made a false interview of Barack Obama in the magazine Politique internationale. See Une fausse interview d'Obama dans Politique internationale by Pascal Riché in Rue 89. I am therefore removing him as he is not a reliable source for Wikipedia. Tazmaniacs 11:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
hello all..i will merge it SOON..-- O.waqfi ( talk) 13:57, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Now, the reward is down to $100,000. [5] -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 16:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
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I think the merge should be put on hold as there is information that al Muahjir is actually a Libyan (or possibly a Yemeni) and has been described as a devotee to Shari'a law. There is reliable information that Abu al Masri is an explosives expert and actually trained others in the use of explosives in Afghanistan whereas the information I have seen about al Muhajer mentions nothing about explosives and concentrates more on his idealogical interests and his role in the indoctrination of new members. Already there are reports emanating from US authorities which are merging this information into one character.
The US Military has identified al-Muhajir as al-Masri. I have stated this in the article, but at this stage in time I feel it's a bit early to merge the articles. Just because the US says so.... - Dark Prime, June 17th 2006 ---merge--then edit...
The stories I've seen so far are "This is who the CIA thinks he really is." It should be mentioned, but I'd wait a few days before merging. -- Falcorian (talk) 17:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
The DOD refers to him as al-Masri, so the other article should be merged into this one, as to streamline things. ( Tofumatt 20:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC))
I suggest removal of Sam Pender's supposed pre-Bush timeline of Al-Qaeda ties to Iraq, mostly due to the irrelevence of said chronolgy to al-Masri. Additionally, the subject matter of the source does not even fulfill its aim (pre-Bush Al-Qaeda ties to Iraq). In short, I cannot see citation of the source as meeting Wikipedia's quality standards.
From Wikipedia's own page defining what a military is- "A military is a heavily-armed, highly organized force primarily intended for warfare, also known collectively as armed forces. It is typically officially authorized and maintained by a sovereign state, with its members identifiable by their distinct military uniform. It may consist of one or more military branches such as an Army, Navy, Air Force and in certain countries, Marines and Coast Guard. The main task of the military is usually defined as defense of the state and its interests against external armed threats." This person was an illegal combatant who did not serve in any military nor represent any nation, nor did he wear a uniform or insignia, nor did he earn any rank, nor meet the definition of a military service member by the Hague of Geneva conventions or by any legal or traditional definition. All reference to "Military service" should be removed, not only from this page, but also from the pages of of Bin Laden, Baghdadi, and all terrorist leaders. 24.246.101.2 ( talk) 14:35, 8 November 2019 (UTC)
Reportedly so: [1] Minutiaman 08:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
[2] Apparently, he's not dead.
Oh, wait... he's dead again. Fox News is reporting that the US Military confirms his death again. 67.100.218.210 ( talk) 15:21, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Yep. He's finally been confirmed dead. Article edited accordingly. TheLarrikin ( talk) 15:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
I would omit all mention of this silly and disproven claim, which seems to have been a publicity stunt by the Egyptian lawyer who first made it, promptly lapped up by al-Jazeera.
LDH 05:26, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I axed that b.s.
Abu Hamza al-Muhajir is a rampaging butcher and one of the most wanted criminals in the world. This article is not the place to be copying and pasting rumours and speculation about him that come from reckless journalists and incompetent bloggers. This is not Usenet.
LDH 04:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Tired of waiting in vain, I restored the 4 April 2007 version, which has many improvements over the incompetent June 2006 version. (BTW the guy who started the false rumour about Abu Ayyub being in jail in Egypt, namely Mamdouh Ismail, is in the news again.) LDH 05:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Not even al-Qaeda denies it. And I did merge the two pieces a while ago. But somebody here at Wiki insists on using the article Abu Hamza al-Muhajir for no purpose except to commemorate a false rumour started in June 2006 by Mamdouh Ismail. See above for the same problem that I had with another Wiki user, Lft6771. LDH 07:20, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, merge it... considering how the news media, officials and insurgents always identify the two names with him, it's totally pointless to have two separate articles. Ever heard of something called an alias or nom de guerre? Look, if it's necessary, there can be a section which covers the name mixup. - Prezboy1 20:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0169719520070501
Just reporting, do what you will with this piece. Blue Mirage | Comment 08:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Your point is? Blue Mirage | Comment 21:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
( http://oxiderules.proboards84.com/) Iraqi officials have claimed he's dead before. Even they admit they can't confirm right now. In the interest of accuracy, nothing should be said of his "death" on wikipedia until it's confirmed through either DNA testing or a US official.-- 65.96.203.131 10:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be getting closer. Seems the Iraqi Disinformation (err Interior) Ministry has gotten al-Masri and al-Baghdadi (which they claimed was the guy killed after the al-Masri link went stale) confused with Muharib Abdul-Latif al-Jubouri who was something like the head of the AQI press office. It seems the latter guy is actually and truly dead; the Coalition seemed pretty confident about it. If they stick to that for the next 24 hours or so, at latest, I think it can be considered confirmed for the time being. Dysmorodrepanis 19:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I reading up that he's dead too on sources from military. Wonder which is right, dead or not, I guess the same is said about Bin Laden The Cleveland Browns are awesome! 18:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I still think that for the sake of consistency, the articles should be merged. They are very painful to maintain in the present state. BUT it should be denoted what refers to which name. Should be tracked too. Eg I am fairly certain that the ISI has never referred to its "minister of war" as al-Masri but only al-Muhajir. But I have also no knowledge of both al-Masri and al-Muhajir being used at the same opportunity for 2 different persons.
Dysmorodrepanis
21:31, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Following paragraph was deleted because it contains incorrect or outdated information.
"Terror consultant Evan Kohlmann said he has never heard of Muhajir. “This individual has never before been featured in any piece of al-Qaeda propaganda, be it video, audio or text communiqué,” he said. “To my knowledge, he has never been cited publicly by the U.S. military or the Multinational Forces in Iraq as a major figure in al-Zarqawi’s network.” [1]"
In a post from his blog Evan Kohlmann said that Al Qaida confirms in a formal statement that al-Muhajir is a member of its organization. [4]
References
Alexis Debat's credibility has been discussed, in particular after having made a false interview of Barack Obama in the magazine Politique internationale. See Une fausse interview d'Obama dans Politique internationale by Pascal Riché in Rue 89. I am therefore removing him as he is not a reliable source for Wikipedia. Tazmaniacs 11:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
hello all..i will merge it SOON..-- O.waqfi ( talk) 13:57, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Now, the reward is down to $100,000. [5] -- Captain Obvious and his crime-fighting dog ( talk) 16:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 06:33, 27 May 2016 (UTC)