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A judge is whatever the people want to be the judge. Is ist mammon ( money ) or abba ( your parents/experience ) ? sry, did I violate wiki ( v-key v-key ) guidelines, again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A540:C0A:0:B9E7:BEB5:A7E3:EF0E ( talk) 09:13, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
The comments about Abraxas being an Archon, about Abraxas being good as well as evil, do not come from either the Abraxas stones nor from ancient Gnostic texts, nor from the Greek Magical Papyrii. It is a speculative interpretation found among some scholars prior to the discovery and translation of the Nag Hammadi library that is at odds with what was found there, and it isn't clearly from the writings of the heresy-hunter's either, who are ambiguous. It is a view one could get from the views of C.G.Jung and his patient Herman Hess (author of Demian), so it could belong there. They didn't have the Gospel of the Egyptians, so they were speculating with less information than we have now.
"In the fictional world of Charmed, Abraxas is a demon of the astral plane who destroys witches by demonising their powers. He appears on the 1st year anniversary of the Charmed Ones gaining their powers, as part of a Rite of Passage. The Book of Shadows says: Rite of Passage - Fight it with the power of one or else a more powerful Evil that awaits will destroy you.
His powers are Reviving defeated adversaries of the Charmed Ones by reading the Book Of Shadows backwards. He was vanquished by reciting the spell to receive a witches powers - Connect the Power of Three, to work as one."
I want to remove this but I fear Shannon Dougherty's powers. Actually, I don't see how this is encyclopedic. It does nothing to enhance my understanding of Abraxas. Feel free to vote off my inclusion of the Abraxas Foundation to this site. There are numerous people who find that to be relevant and important as a legitimate example of the spiritual influence of Abraxas in a direct, socio-political context. Whereas, the Charmed silliness is merely the plot of a tv program.
Curtsurly 20:03, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)Curtsurly
I agree, it seems the writer just picked a name that he thought sounded old as these series often do. In charmed they have lampooned every old myth/belief from Barbas/ Barbas, the Demon of Fear to biblical figures such as Gideon and totally revamped their myths. While this might be worth mentioning on a list of charmed bad guys i don't think linking a fictional work of no real similarity beside the name to this non-fiction article would be of benifit to people interested. If for no other reason than the two characters have no similarities other than name the passage should stay out. -- Seth Turner 17:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
so far, the 1911 text was simply dumped here. It needs to be worked into the article. I'll put up the cleanup tag until somebody gets round to it (possibly me, over the next week or two).
dab
(ᛏ)
07:08, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Thyphoon Does have anyone ideea abut the similarities between abraxas representations and Thyphoon?
I'm going to remove the link to the jewelry store too, it's just a shop called Abraxas and has no relevance to the topic.
203.97.110.64 (
talk)
03:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know the exact reference of this quote? I would like to study it in context and in the original Lucius Domitius 17:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
What does this sentence mean? It really needs fixing, as it is unintelligible as it stands. "The true name, moreover, is Abrasax, and not, as incorrectly written, Abraxas, a reading due to the confusion made by the Latins between Sigma and Xi." confusion made by the Latins? Romans? They make confusion? Should the word "misinterpretation" or "misreading" replace reading?
I propose: "The true name, moreover, is Abrasax, and not, as incorrectly written, Abraxas, which is a misreading due to the confusion of the letters sigma and xi." Unless this misreading can be directly attributed to the Romans, I'm leaving that part out.
Even in the image File:Abraxas, Nordisk familjebok.png the text reads as 'Abrasax'. Note that 'ABPACAZ', as a transliteration of Greek letters, would be read thus:
- Stelio ( talk) 12:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Is the work identified as being that of Abraxas? The figure more resembles Melusine, the two-tailed mermaid that is believed to be the progenitor of a famous French noble house. The mermaid on the Starbuck's label is based on her. Abraxas is supposed to be depicted as being male with the the head of a rooster. Hotspur23 13:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I think Hotspur is right. The image is not Abraxas. ThePeg 13:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
It looks like there was good reason to take out the candlestick picture, so I went ahead and dumped it, along with adding a lot of quotations and general cleanup. I would like to hear more from our anonymous Templar-researching friend, but I'm afraid I can't understand a word he's saying. Kramden ( talk) 05:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
From the article: As the original Gnostics who utilized the mystery name of Abrasax such as Basilides identified as Christian or were practitioners of a form of mystical Judaism, this ritual cannot be taken seriously as accurately representing the meaning of this symbol.
This seems odd for two reasons. Gnosticism apparently started as a pagan religion or group of religions, and the sentence makes assumptions about where meaning can come from. Dan ( talk) 05:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous contributor (the same one?) claims that, "In the context of the original system of Christian Gnosticism, where the first references to Abrasax occur, Babylon and the Beast of the Apocalypse (which are primary to Thelema, where they are given an extremely positive valuation) are definitely symbolic of the Archons which embody spiritual oppression." Archons, for those just joining us, means rulers or authorities. Now take a look at a published source contradicting our anonymous friend
here, giving the actual translation of the Gnostic source
here. (Note that different Gnostics at different times made a lot of different remarks.)
Dan (
talk)
00:02, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
The lyrics are highly interesting: "In my eyes..." If you like it, you can build it into the main article. GOD bless-- Omikron23 ( talk) 13:01, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what the exact provenance of this image is, or who has proclaimed it to be Abraxas. Sources? Anything? Kramden ( talk) 06:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Some of the material is a bit sparse or superfluous but perhaps it would be better placed in a separate article, perhaps Abraxas in Modern Culture or whatever name would be convential. The Jungian reference obviously needs to be here but we could redirect to a new main article for the rest. Combining list-like elements into paragraphs could help. Ideas? Obotlig ( talk) 04:22, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
I find the request for references regarding Jung and Hesse's quotes unexpected, given that they are explicited before they are presented; namely, Hesse's "Damien" and Jung's "Seven Sermons To The Dead". -- Xyzt1234 ( talk) 21:47, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
The band "Death Grips" mention Abraxas in "Get Got" but I currently can not and do not want to add this as another item to the list. It would be greatly appreciated if someone can do this for me with the appropriate information and maybe the reason the name was used at all, of which I am unaware 79.3.61.92 ( talk) 20:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Abraxas article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
A judge is whatever the people want to be the judge. Is ist mammon ( money ) or abba ( your parents/experience ) ? sry, did I violate wiki ( v-key v-key ) guidelines, again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A540:C0A:0:B9E7:BEB5:A7E3:EF0E ( talk) 09:13, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
The comments about Abraxas being an Archon, about Abraxas being good as well as evil, do not come from either the Abraxas stones nor from ancient Gnostic texts, nor from the Greek Magical Papyrii. It is a speculative interpretation found among some scholars prior to the discovery and translation of the Nag Hammadi library that is at odds with what was found there, and it isn't clearly from the writings of the heresy-hunter's either, who are ambiguous. It is a view one could get from the views of C.G.Jung and his patient Herman Hess (author of Demian), so it could belong there. They didn't have the Gospel of the Egyptians, so they were speculating with less information than we have now.
"In the fictional world of Charmed, Abraxas is a demon of the astral plane who destroys witches by demonising their powers. He appears on the 1st year anniversary of the Charmed Ones gaining their powers, as part of a Rite of Passage. The Book of Shadows says: Rite of Passage - Fight it with the power of one or else a more powerful Evil that awaits will destroy you.
His powers are Reviving defeated adversaries of the Charmed Ones by reading the Book Of Shadows backwards. He was vanquished by reciting the spell to receive a witches powers - Connect the Power of Three, to work as one."
I want to remove this but I fear Shannon Dougherty's powers. Actually, I don't see how this is encyclopedic. It does nothing to enhance my understanding of Abraxas. Feel free to vote off my inclusion of the Abraxas Foundation to this site. There are numerous people who find that to be relevant and important as a legitimate example of the spiritual influence of Abraxas in a direct, socio-political context. Whereas, the Charmed silliness is merely the plot of a tv program.
Curtsurly 20:03, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)Curtsurly
I agree, it seems the writer just picked a name that he thought sounded old as these series often do. In charmed they have lampooned every old myth/belief from Barbas/ Barbas, the Demon of Fear to biblical figures such as Gideon and totally revamped their myths. While this might be worth mentioning on a list of charmed bad guys i don't think linking a fictional work of no real similarity beside the name to this non-fiction article would be of benifit to people interested. If for no other reason than the two characters have no similarities other than name the passage should stay out. -- Seth Turner 17:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
so far, the 1911 text was simply dumped here. It needs to be worked into the article. I'll put up the cleanup tag until somebody gets round to it (possibly me, over the next week or two).
dab
(ᛏ)
07:08, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
Thyphoon Does have anyone ideea abut the similarities between abraxas representations and Thyphoon?
I'm going to remove the link to the jewelry store too, it's just a shop called Abraxas and has no relevance to the topic.
203.97.110.64 (
talk)
03:10, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know the exact reference of this quote? I would like to study it in context and in the original Lucius Domitius 17:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
What does this sentence mean? It really needs fixing, as it is unintelligible as it stands. "The true name, moreover, is Abrasax, and not, as incorrectly written, Abraxas, a reading due to the confusion made by the Latins between Sigma and Xi." confusion made by the Latins? Romans? They make confusion? Should the word "misinterpretation" or "misreading" replace reading?
I propose: "The true name, moreover, is Abrasax, and not, as incorrectly written, Abraxas, which is a misreading due to the confusion of the letters sigma and xi." Unless this misreading can be directly attributed to the Romans, I'm leaving that part out.
Even in the image File:Abraxas, Nordisk familjebok.png the text reads as 'Abrasax'. Note that 'ABPACAZ', as a transliteration of Greek letters, would be read thus:
- Stelio ( talk) 12:54, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Is the work identified as being that of Abraxas? The figure more resembles Melusine, the two-tailed mermaid that is believed to be the progenitor of a famous French noble house. The mermaid on the Starbuck's label is based on her. Abraxas is supposed to be depicted as being male with the the head of a rooster. Hotspur23 13:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I think Hotspur is right. The image is not Abraxas. ThePeg 13:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
It looks like there was good reason to take out the candlestick picture, so I went ahead and dumped it, along with adding a lot of quotations and general cleanup. I would like to hear more from our anonymous Templar-researching friend, but I'm afraid I can't understand a word he's saying. Kramden ( talk) 05:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
From the article: As the original Gnostics who utilized the mystery name of Abrasax such as Basilides identified as Christian or were practitioners of a form of mystical Judaism, this ritual cannot be taken seriously as accurately representing the meaning of this symbol.
This seems odd for two reasons. Gnosticism apparently started as a pagan religion or group of religions, and the sentence makes assumptions about where meaning can come from. Dan ( talk) 05:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous contributor (the same one?) claims that, "In the context of the original system of Christian Gnosticism, where the first references to Abrasax occur, Babylon and the Beast of the Apocalypse (which are primary to Thelema, where they are given an extremely positive valuation) are definitely symbolic of the Archons which embody spiritual oppression." Archons, for those just joining us, means rulers or authorities. Now take a look at a published source contradicting our anonymous friend
here, giving the actual translation of the Gnostic source
here. (Note that different Gnostics at different times made a lot of different remarks.)
Dan (
talk)
00:02, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
The lyrics are highly interesting: "In my eyes..." If you like it, you can build it into the main article. GOD bless-- Omikron23 ( talk) 13:01, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't know what the exact provenance of this image is, or who has proclaimed it to be Abraxas. Sources? Anything? Kramden ( talk) 06:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
Some of the material is a bit sparse or superfluous but perhaps it would be better placed in a separate article, perhaps Abraxas in Modern Culture or whatever name would be convential. The Jungian reference obviously needs to be here but we could redirect to a new main article for the rest. Combining list-like elements into paragraphs could help. Ideas? Obotlig ( talk) 04:22, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
I find the request for references regarding Jung and Hesse's quotes unexpected, given that they are explicited before they are presented; namely, Hesse's "Damien" and Jung's "Seven Sermons To The Dead". -- Xyzt1234 ( talk) 21:47, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
The band "Death Grips" mention Abraxas in "Get Got" but I currently can not and do not want to add this as another item to the list. It would be greatly appreciated if someone can do this for me with the appropriate information and maybe the reason the name was used at all, of which I am unaware 79.3.61.92 ( talk) 20:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)