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Hello all, The page lacks neutrality. The page is more of propaganda for Abiy Ahmed than showing the real picture. It is mostly written to glorify Abiy Ahmed's image.
Best regards, Truth gatekeeper ( talk) 08:51, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Note that this editor has been indefinitely blocked, partially because of WP:BLP violations, also misuse of sources, original research, stating disputed matter as fact, and NPOV violations, ironically. Generally a lack of understanding of policy. Doug Weller talk 19:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Abiy Ahmed is a war criminal. That's undisputable.
These are reputable sources. The Ethiopian minister's Facebook pages aren't.
References
Recently, Truth gatekeeper has made a series of sweeping POV edits to the article based on the treatment of the Tigray (people) minority. He cites a litany of sources, but the reliable sources describe two things: ethnic violence targeting the Gedeo people and the dismissal and arrest of Tigrayan officials. Both of these developments warrant coverage in the article, but they must be covered in a matter that conforms with the WP:BLP and WP:NPOV policies. I've added a section about the violence against Gedeos, but the Tigray issue is more complex, as many of the dismissed officials are related to Ethiopia's military-industrial complex. This appears to be a power struggle, as many of these individuals were part of the previous government which used the Tigray dominated police and military to crackdown on protesters [1]. SWL36 ( talk) 18:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
References
At the time of writing this, our article currently states:
"As a teenager and in early 1991, [1] he joined the armed struggle against the Marxist–Leninist regime of Mengistu Haile Mariam after the death of his oldest brother. He did so as a member of ODP (Oromo Democratic Party), which at that time was a tiny organization of only around 200 fighters in the large coalition army of about 100,000 fighters that resulted in regime's fall later that year. [2] [3] [4] As there were only so few ODP fighters in an army with its core of about 90,000 Tigrayans, Abiy quickly had to learn the Tigrinya language. As a speaker of Tigrinya in a security apparatus dominated by Tigrayans, he could move forward with his military career. [2]"
Although this is an extraordinary claim it is not impossible but I would like to see a better source that Abiy was only fourteen and a half when he joined the armed struggle.
Does anyone know if there is an official biography that I can look at online? -- Bushel C andle 06:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
References
For some time the EPRDF, was in talks with the OLF; in fact, the later was part of the then transitional government. OLF was, at the time, very popular in Oromia region. However, the peaceful talks failed to bear fruit as things turn to become violent. That was when alternative forces like the Oromo People's Democratic Organization (OPDO) came to the fore.
According to people who witnessed that critical period, the OLF had strong support in Agaro like most parts of Oromia region.
It was at that time that Abiy's family was directly affected by the political transition in the country. Abiy's father and his eldest son, Kedir Ahmed, were arrested for some time.
Unfortunately, Kedir was killed during that time in what was believed to be a politically motivated assassination, according to people close to the family.
By the time, Agaro, which now has a population of, 41,085, was believed to be a stronghold of the OLF.
"I think losing his brother at that age was a turning point in Abiy's life," Miftah Hudin Aba Jebel, a childhood friend of Abiy, told The Reporter. "I mean we were young and I remember one night Abiy asking me to join the struggle," he recalls. "To be honest, it was difficult for me to understand what he was saying."
According to multiple sources, Abiy joined the struggle during early 1991, just a few months before the downfall of the military regime, almost at the age of 15.
"By the time we were teenagers; Abiy, another young man by the name Komitas, who was a driver for Abadula Gemeda at the time, and myself joined the OPDO," Getish Mamo, the then member of OPDO's music band called Bifttu Oromia, told The Reporter. "We were also close with Abadula Gemeda." Abadula was one of the founders of the OPDO and current speaker of the House of People's Representatives.
Abiy, at the time, was working as a radio operator, according to Getish.
{{
cite news}}
: line feed character in |quote=
at position 365 (
help)
prelude
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).abiyot
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Recently, an editor using the IP address of 197.156.95.9 made the following comment on my talk page: "...as I've seen in the article Abiy Ahmed, he's in 15th prime minister, not fourth. In addition, the person full name describes in bold. There is million people who have a name "Abiy". Otherwise it's seems like disruption or vandalism due to ambiguous office holding position. If he is in fourth position, it should be supported by reliable sources."
Recently, an IP editor made the unsourced change from 4th to 15th.
There is a tradition for biographies of living persons in the English language Wikipedia to only use the shortened form of an individuals name after the first mention (in bold).
Although Abiy may be regarded as the 15th head of government of modern Ethiopia, the "Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia’s Office of the Prime Minister" currently states on its website page: "H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia" [1] and I sincerely believe that the government website is a reasonably reliable source.-- BushelCandle ( talk) 00:54, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
References
H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
Going to add the below paragraph to the "Transparency" sections, feel free to improve it. (Furthermore, I don't think "Transparency" section should be under "Domestic policy", or should it?). Hi @ Materialscientist:, is it okay if I add the below? (Thought I ask you since you are the last editing Admin of on page.) Loves Woolf1882 ( talk) 19:29, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
According to NGOs like Committee to Protect Journalists and Amnesty International, Abiy's government has since mid 2019 been arresting Ethiopian journalists and closing media outlets (except for ESAT-TV). [1] [2] [3] [4] From the international media outlets, his government has suspended the press license of Reuters's correspondent, and they have issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what the government described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting". [5]
References
Ethiopian Broadcasting Authority (EBA) has suspended the press license of Reuters correspondent in the country Giulia Paravicini, for an unspecified amount of time after a warning letter was issued to the correspondent.The Authority said that the decision has been due to the "false and biased" reporting by the news agency's correspondent on Ethiopia's current affairs and coverage of the fighting in the Tigray region, which "misleads the world and causes international pressure to mount on Ethiopia." The Authority has also issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what it described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 ( talk • contribs) 05:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Wanted to add the below line to the "Internet shutdowns" sections, feel free to improve it, before I do so, thank you. Loves Woolf1882 ( talk) 12:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
His government will the cut internet as and when, "it's neither water nor air" have said Abiy. [1] [2]
References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 ( talk • contribs) 00:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
The information that Abiy's PhD thesis has apparently not been posted publicly in an institutional repository is WP:OR and not especially interesting. The repository where it would be expected to be found seems to be http://etd.aau.edu.et/handle/123456789/19 . However, the Institute for Peace and Security Studies appears to have no theses or other publications deposited there at all. Human sciences, including peace research, seem to generally be a lot less transparent with less open access material than sciences like physics and astronomy. A printed copy is presumably located in the IPSS physical library.
There seems to be an implication in the text currently in the article, about "not publishing" his thesis, that Abiy did not do a real PhD; that counts as WP:OR. Boud ( talk) 01:03, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Currently we have a section called "Sexual violence in war" which includes a quote by Prime Minister Abiy (a living person) in which he jokes about sexual violence in the battle of Adwa and the Eritrean War in a January 2019 speech. The Tigray war started in November 2020. While Abiy's remarks are appalling it seems like a big accusation to say they constitute his "endorsement" of rape in war. If we are going to say he endorses rape we will need more than just this source. VR talk 14:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
The article says: "As the first Ethiopian and the first African head of state, he won the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize…". However, as prime minister, Abiy would be head of government but not head of state (that would be the president of Ethiopia). I did not want to just make a change to "head of government" since I don't know enough about peace prize recipients to know if he'd really be the first African head of government to win it, and just removing it also felt wrong. I'm not an expert Wikipedia editor, just a regular user, and I've had edits reverted previously for reasons I never understood, so I'll leave this comment here and maybe someone with more experience can fix it. It's not a huge deal anyway, I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.52.127.137 ( talk) 13:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
Should this really be its own section? Seems like it was added to POV push. 2600:1700:8311:52B0:358B:EF6E:617A:D8D2 ( talk) 04:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I have amended the first paragraph to raise the prominence of the subject's status as a Nobel Prize winner. Abiy's two reasons for world prominence are his prime ministership of Ethiopia and his receipt of a Nobel Peace Prize. I say this with great respect for Ethiopia, but in truth there are hundreds of national political leaders in the world at any one time and they change often. Being a Nobel Prize winner is in most cases far more significant than simply being a national leader. Nobel Prize winners' articles at Wikipedia typically refer to the fact very early in the article. Burying the Nobel Prize below many local details of his internal career in Ethiopia risks obscuring Abiy's primary reason for world prominence. Please do not revert without discussion. If such discussion is necessary, this should inlude inviting the opinion of other contributors to this page. I should perhaps say that I am aware of the cleanup note at the top of this article, and also that the subject is likely to be a matter of controversy within Ethiopia. I have no axe to grind in the latter respect and am simply trying the help improve the article. Emmentalist ( talk) 10:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia should remove the protection template for this war criminal! TegaruFirst ( talk) 12:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Abbichuu koo abba malaa — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
196.189.29.229 (
talk)
15:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
I love you what ever time!! 196.190.61.251 ( talk) 14:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
In case anyone wishes to discuss this edit by me, feel free to do so here. Boud ( talk) 17:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
We currently have in the Amharic alphasyllabary:
and these each differ from one another. Only the 'y' in Abiy, and the 'A' and 'd' in Ahmed seem to have consensus.
What policy do we have in cases like this? My guess is either go by the subject's preferred spelling or by the most widely used spelling in reliable sources. The most widely WP:RS spelling would need evidence. Personal preferences would presumably go by the spelling on the official government profile. Boud ( talk) 23:07, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
There are currently 143 watchers of this BLP page but it took over 12 hours from this edit changing Abiy's father's ethnicity, in contradiction to the NYT source, to be reverted. Boud ( talk) 15:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | A news item involving Abiy Ahmed was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 11 October 2019. | ![]() |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Abiy Ahmed article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the
Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() |
|
Hello all, The page lacks neutrality. The page is more of propaganda for Abiy Ahmed than showing the real picture. It is mostly written to glorify Abiy Ahmed's image.
Best regards, Truth gatekeeper ( talk) 08:51, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Note that this editor has been indefinitely blocked, partially because of WP:BLP violations, also misuse of sources, original research, stating disputed matter as fact, and NPOV violations, ironically. Generally a lack of understanding of policy. Doug Weller talk 19:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
Abiy Ahmed is a war criminal. That's undisputable.
These are reputable sources. The Ethiopian minister's Facebook pages aren't.
References
Recently, Truth gatekeeper has made a series of sweeping POV edits to the article based on the treatment of the Tigray (people) minority. He cites a litany of sources, but the reliable sources describe two things: ethnic violence targeting the Gedeo people and the dismissal and arrest of Tigrayan officials. Both of these developments warrant coverage in the article, but they must be covered in a matter that conforms with the WP:BLP and WP:NPOV policies. I've added a section about the violence against Gedeos, but the Tigray issue is more complex, as many of the dismissed officials are related to Ethiopia's military-industrial complex. This appears to be a power struggle, as many of these individuals were part of the previous government which used the Tigray dominated police and military to crackdown on protesters [1]. SWL36 ( talk) 18:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
References
At the time of writing this, our article currently states:
"As a teenager and in early 1991, [1] he joined the armed struggle against the Marxist–Leninist regime of Mengistu Haile Mariam after the death of his oldest brother. He did so as a member of ODP (Oromo Democratic Party), which at that time was a tiny organization of only around 200 fighters in the large coalition army of about 100,000 fighters that resulted in regime's fall later that year. [2] [3] [4] As there were only so few ODP fighters in an army with its core of about 90,000 Tigrayans, Abiy quickly had to learn the Tigrinya language. As a speaker of Tigrinya in a security apparatus dominated by Tigrayans, he could move forward with his military career. [2]"
Although this is an extraordinary claim it is not impossible but I would like to see a better source that Abiy was only fourteen and a half when he joined the armed struggle.
Does anyone know if there is an official biography that I can look at online? -- Bushel C andle 06:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
References
For some time the EPRDF, was in talks with the OLF; in fact, the later was part of the then transitional government. OLF was, at the time, very popular in Oromia region. However, the peaceful talks failed to bear fruit as things turn to become violent. That was when alternative forces like the Oromo People's Democratic Organization (OPDO) came to the fore.
According to people who witnessed that critical period, the OLF had strong support in Agaro like most parts of Oromia region.
It was at that time that Abiy's family was directly affected by the political transition in the country. Abiy's father and his eldest son, Kedir Ahmed, were arrested for some time.
Unfortunately, Kedir was killed during that time in what was believed to be a politically motivated assassination, according to people close to the family.
By the time, Agaro, which now has a population of, 41,085, was believed to be a stronghold of the OLF.
"I think losing his brother at that age was a turning point in Abiy's life," Miftah Hudin Aba Jebel, a childhood friend of Abiy, told The Reporter. "I mean we were young and I remember one night Abiy asking me to join the struggle," he recalls. "To be honest, it was difficult for me to understand what he was saying."
According to multiple sources, Abiy joined the struggle during early 1991, just a few months before the downfall of the military regime, almost at the age of 15.
"By the time we were teenagers; Abiy, another young man by the name Komitas, who was a driver for Abadula Gemeda at the time, and myself joined the OPDO," Getish Mamo, the then member of OPDO's music band called Bifttu Oromia, told The Reporter. "We were also close with Abadula Gemeda." Abadula was one of the founders of the OPDO and current speaker of the House of People's Representatives.
Abiy, at the time, was working as a radio operator, according to Getish.
{{
cite news}}
: line feed character in |quote=
at position 365 (
help)
prelude
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).abiyot
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Recently, an editor using the IP address of 197.156.95.9 made the following comment on my talk page: "...as I've seen in the article Abiy Ahmed, he's in 15th prime minister, not fourth. In addition, the person full name describes in bold. There is million people who have a name "Abiy". Otherwise it's seems like disruption or vandalism due to ambiguous office holding position. If he is in fourth position, it should be supported by reliable sources."
Recently, an IP editor made the unsourced change from 4th to 15th.
There is a tradition for biographies of living persons in the English language Wikipedia to only use the shortened form of an individuals name after the first mention (in bold).
Although Abiy may be regarded as the 15th head of government of modern Ethiopia, the "Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia’s Office of the Prime Minister" currently states on its website page: "H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia" [1] and I sincerely believe that the government website is a reasonably reliable source.-- BushelCandle ( talk) 00:54, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
References
H.E. Abiy Ahmed Ali (PhD) is the fourth Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia
Going to add the below paragraph to the "Transparency" sections, feel free to improve it. (Furthermore, I don't think "Transparency" section should be under "Domestic policy", or should it?). Hi @ Materialscientist:, is it okay if I add the below? (Thought I ask you since you are the last editing Admin of on page.) Loves Woolf1882 ( talk) 19:29, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
According to NGOs like Committee to Protect Journalists and Amnesty International, Abiy's government has since mid 2019 been arresting Ethiopian journalists and closing media outlets (except for ESAT-TV). [1] [2] [3] [4] From the international media outlets, his government has suspended the press license of Reuters's correspondent, and they have issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what the government described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting". [5]
References
Ethiopian Broadcasting Authority (EBA) has suspended the press license of Reuters correspondent in the country Giulia Paravicini, for an unspecified amount of time after a warning letter was issued to the correspondent.The Authority said that the decision has been due to the "false and biased" reporting by the news agency's correspondent on Ethiopia's current affairs and coverage of the fighting in the Tigray region, which "misleads the world and causes international pressure to mount on Ethiopia." The Authority has also issued a warning letter to the correspondents of both BBC and Deutsche Welle for what it described as "violation of the rules of media broadcasting."
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 ( talk • contribs) 05:28, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
Wanted to add the below line to the "Internet shutdowns" sections, feel free to improve it, before I do so, thank you. Loves Woolf1882 ( talk) 12:54, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
His government will the cut internet as and when, "it's neither water nor air" have said Abiy. [1] [2]
References
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Loves Woolf1882 ( talk • contribs) 00:28, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
The information that Abiy's PhD thesis has apparently not been posted publicly in an institutional repository is WP:OR and not especially interesting. The repository where it would be expected to be found seems to be http://etd.aau.edu.et/handle/123456789/19 . However, the Institute for Peace and Security Studies appears to have no theses or other publications deposited there at all. Human sciences, including peace research, seem to generally be a lot less transparent with less open access material than sciences like physics and astronomy. A printed copy is presumably located in the IPSS physical library.
There seems to be an implication in the text currently in the article, about "not publishing" his thesis, that Abiy did not do a real PhD; that counts as WP:OR. Boud ( talk) 01:03, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Currently we have a section called "Sexual violence in war" which includes a quote by Prime Minister Abiy (a living person) in which he jokes about sexual violence in the battle of Adwa and the Eritrean War in a January 2019 speech. The Tigray war started in November 2020. While Abiy's remarks are appalling it seems like a big accusation to say they constitute his "endorsement" of rape in war. If we are going to say he endorses rape we will need more than just this source. VR talk 14:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
The article says: "As the first Ethiopian and the first African head of state, he won the 2019 Nobel Peace Prize…". However, as prime minister, Abiy would be head of government but not head of state (that would be the president of Ethiopia). I did not want to just make a change to "head of government" since I don't know enough about peace prize recipients to know if he'd really be the first African head of government to win it, and just removing it also felt wrong. I'm not an expert Wikipedia editor, just a regular user, and I've had edits reverted previously for reasons I never understood, so I'll leave this comment here and maybe someone with more experience can fix it. It's not a huge deal anyway, I guess. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.52.127.137 ( talk) 13:19, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
Should this really be its own section? Seems like it was added to POV push. 2600:1700:8311:52B0:358B:EF6E:617A:D8D2 ( talk) 04:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I have amended the first paragraph to raise the prominence of the subject's status as a Nobel Prize winner. Abiy's two reasons for world prominence are his prime ministership of Ethiopia and his receipt of a Nobel Peace Prize. I say this with great respect for Ethiopia, but in truth there are hundreds of national political leaders in the world at any one time and they change often. Being a Nobel Prize winner is in most cases far more significant than simply being a national leader. Nobel Prize winners' articles at Wikipedia typically refer to the fact very early in the article. Burying the Nobel Prize below many local details of his internal career in Ethiopia risks obscuring Abiy's primary reason for world prominence. Please do not revert without discussion. If such discussion is necessary, this should inlude inviting the opinion of other contributors to this page. I should perhaps say that I am aware of the cleanup note at the top of this article, and also that the subject is likely to be a matter of controversy within Ethiopia. I have no axe to grind in the latter respect and am simply trying the help improve the article. Emmentalist ( talk) 10:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Wikipedia should remove the protection template for this war criminal! TegaruFirst ( talk) 12:19, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Abbichuu koo abba malaa — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
196.189.29.229 (
talk)
15:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
I love you what ever time!! 196.190.61.251 ( talk) 14:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
In case anyone wishes to discuss this edit by me, feel free to do so here. Boud ( talk) 17:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
We currently have in the Amharic alphasyllabary:
and these each differ from one another. Only the 'y' in Abiy, and the 'A' and 'd' in Ahmed seem to have consensus.
What policy do we have in cases like this? My guess is either go by the subject's preferred spelling or by the most widely used spelling in reliable sources. The most widely WP:RS spelling would need evidence. Personal preferences would presumably go by the spelling on the official government profile. Boud ( talk) 23:07, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
There are currently 143 watchers of this BLP page but it took over 12 hours from this edit changing Abiy's father's ethnicity, in contradiction to the NYT source, to be reverted. Boud ( talk) 15:14, 6 April 2024 (UTC)