Abhisit Vejjajiva was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Abhisit Vejjajiva was copied or moved into 2010 Thai political protests with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of Abhisit Vejjajiva was copied or moved into Premiership of Abhisit Vejjajiva with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Excuse me, but it seems that the red-shirt protesters has move the front from the street to here on Wikipedia. Look at the sentence : In a pre-dawn raid on Monday April 13, Thai soldiers in full combat gear used tear gas and fired live rounds and training rounds from automatic weapons to clear protesters from the Din Daeng intersection near the Victory Monument in central Bangkok, injuring at least 70 people.[92] [93] The Army later claimed that live rounds were only fired into the air while training rounds were fired at the crowd. Human Rights Watch later confirmed that live ammunition was fired directly at protesters.[94]
The sentence quite jumped at me. Then, when I go see the citation... What the !@#? The Human rights watch group just says:
Mr Thaksin's "red shirt" followers, who claim the four month old government is illegitimate, "attacked approaching soldiers with guns, Molotov bombs, improvised grenades, slingshots, and rocks", the New York based group said. The group praised the restraint shown by most soldiers but said there were cases where live ammunition was fired directly at protesters.
What the clearly-red-shirt wikipedia writer (whose name starts with a 'P') reported is blatantly false and misleading. Please consider action on this false writer's statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donny TH ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Someone deleted two notes of trivia in the "Trivia" section. The first noted that Abhisit was an avid football fan. The second noted that Abhisit liked rock music, namely R.E.M.]. These are both taken from Abhisit's personal biography page. I'd argue that in a wikipedia biographical article, trivia like this serves some purpose, namely shedding light on Abhisit's personal character and demographics. While many older Thai politicians gain patronage from sponsoring Muay Thai matches and like to karaoke to Suntharaphorn and other 50's singers, Abhisit is relatively young, and his hobbies and interests reflect that youth. Patiwat 20:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
If matters are considered important, they should go in the body of the article. "Trivia" is by definition trivial and therefore unencyclopaedic. Adam 04:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
How many generations do people of Chinese ancestry have to live in Thailand before they stop being "Thai-Chinese"? Most of the Thai upper and middle classes have some Chinese ancestry, since the two communities have freely intermarried in urban areas for more than a century. I think it is inherently racist, and intentionally so, to tag people as "Thai-Chinese" when they are fouth-generation Thais, and thoroughly Thai in culture and upbringing. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 10:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Apparently the Chinese who settle down in other countries do not assimiliate/intergrate well, but rather stick to their own roots. If they live in new country - especially if they're born in new country - they should live like local people. Yet they don't. So it is fair to call them Chinese. This applies to Chinese in Malaysia, Indonesia or the Philippines too. They are the ones who cause other people to call them Chinese. Bunio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.8.205 ( talk) 03:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
If anyone wants an image for this article there is one at the Irish Wikipedia [1] Royal Mate1 23:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
... พวกเธอจะรู้อะไรกับกลการเมืองพวกที่ถืออถิสิทธิ๋อยู่เหนือกฏหมายมันจ้างมา ... You all should know that in politics those upholding privilege are above the law. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 06:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I have deleted the statement that "Abhisit" means "privilege" in Thai since it comes from a highly anti-Abhisit website. Can someone confirm or refute this statement?
Intelligent Mr Toad (
talk)
08:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
http://www.thai-language.com/dict/
- 1.อภิสิทธิ์ noun privilege; monopoly; exclusive right
- 2.อภิสิทธิ์ชน noun a privileged person
- 3.อภิสิทธิ์ชน noun the privileged class
http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/22000.html
- อภิสิทธิ์ [N] privilege ; prerogative
http://rirs3.royin.go.th/dictionary.asp
- อภิ คําประกอบหน้าศัพท์ที่มาจากภาษาบาลีและสันสกฤต มีความหมายว่า ยิ่ง, วิเศษ, เหนือ, เช่น อภิรมย์ = ยินดียิ่ง, อภิญญาณ = ความรู้วิเศษ, อภิมนุษย์ = มนุษย์ที่เหนือ มนุษย์ทั้งหลาย. (ป.)
- สิทธิ, สิทธิ์ [สิดทิ, สิด] น. อำนาจอันชอบธรรม เช่น บุคคลมีสิทธิและ หน้าที่ตามรัฐธรรมนูญ เขามีสิทธิ์ในที่ดินแปลงนี้. (ป., ส.); (กฎ) อํานาจที่จะกระทําการใด ๆ ได้อย่างอิสระ โดยได้รับการรับรองจากกฎหมาย. (อ. right).
Pawyilee ( talk) 14:12, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I acknowledge that, for Thais, there is an important distinction between Thai ethnicity and Thai nationality. Persons of Thai nationality are not necessarily of Thai ethnicity. In a country like Australia (where I live) there is no such distinction, because there is no "Australian ethnicity." For readers of the Thai Wikipedia, this distinction may be self-evident. But for readers of the English Wikipedia, it is not, and needs to be explained. If someone in Australia refered to Penny Wong, for example, as being "Australian-Chinese" in an article, this would be regarded as very racist unless it had some relevance to the topic of the article. Calling Abhisit a "Thai-Chinese" when his family have lived in Thailand for four generations appears racist to most English-speaking readers. If this expression is to be used it needs some explanation of how Thais view ethnicity and nationality. But I also question its relevance given that most of the Thai upper class have some Chinese descent. I don't think anyone refers to the current King as a "Thai-Chinese", although the mother of Rama I was part-Chinese. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 00:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Not a geomancer but an astrologer would have been consulted, if his parents followed tradition, and his parents may have been high enough up in elite society to have consulted the same palace that awarded their family name. The most important consideration is that the initial consonant อ is consonant with the weekday of birth. I've been told "Abhisit" is an abominable transliteration, though NOT as abominable as that of the family name, but the Palace has its own rules, which override others. The same source says "Abhisit" is a fairly common given name, given that so many babies are born on the consonant day of the week, but, this being Southeast Asia, it is customary to use other names bestowed later, by parents, playmates, friends, enemies and the occasional king. Everything about PM Abhisit marks him as one of the elite of the elite (except his nickname "Mark," which likely follows post- Hobbesian English custom as a sound signifying naught but a place-holder). But we really need a native Thai editor to join this discussion of what place "Abhisit" holds among his friends. We've already commented on the place it holds among his enemies. Currently in Bangkok where my wife insists we discuss the topic sub voce, if not subsiste sermonem statim. Pawyilee ( talk) 14:02, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As to the meaning of his given name, I'm not pleased with the way it reads now:
I'd like to move the parenthetical comment to the end of the section, remove the parentheses, and expand it to establish his name's "auspicious" beginning:
Then go on explain how it is used in the current political environment by his enemies. Can't be done without references! (Thaksin's article needs a somewhat similar entry on his childhood play-name that has his enemies lampooning him as a cat!) Pawyilee ( talk) 14:28, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
The Thai-language article is more interested in the origin of his family's Thai name:
สกุล "เวชชาชีวะ" หรือ "Vejjajiva" เป็นนามสกุลพระราชทานสมัย รัชกาลที่ 6 ลำดับที่ 4,881 จากนามสกุลพระราชทานสมัย ร.6 ที่พระราชทาน รวมทั้งสิ้น 6,423 นามสกุล โดยพระราชทานให้กับรองอำมาตย์ตรีหลง (หลง เวชชาชีวะ) แพทย์ประจำจังหวัดลพบุรี กับ นายจิ๊นแสง (บิดา) นายเป๋ง (ปู่) และนายก่อ (ปู่ทวด) เนื่องจากเป็นต้นตระกูลเป็นแพทย์จึงมีคำว่า "เวช" [Doctor, physician] อยู่ในนามสกุลด้วย Source
Pawyilee ( talk) 14:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
.... During the reign of Rama VI, three generations of Yuan-clan Lopburi provincial physicians were given palace-name number 4,881 (of 6,423) "Vejjajiva"—"Vej" (TH "เวช") signifying physician: Mr. Chen Saeng (TH นายจิ๊นแสง) (father,) Mr. Peng (TH นายเป๋ง) (grandfather) and Mr. Ko (TH นายก่อ) (great-grandfather.) [22:same source as Thai article, above] PM Abhisit, himself a fourth-generation Thai Chinese, is of this lineage. [23:somebody entered this ref; I haven't read it] (His given name should be preceded by an honorific or followed by his family name, as otherwise it reverts to a noun signifying privilege; monopoly; exclusive right.)[24:thai-language.com/dict/ entry, above][25:On-line Royal Institute Dictionary 1995 entries, above]
Revert or edit as you please. Oh, and I tinkered with the entry on his prep school, too, to read: ...he transferred to [[Scaitcliffe School|Bishospsgate_School]],[17:Formerly a preparatory boys school, Scaitcliffe merged in 1996 with Virginia Water girls preparatory school to form Bishopsgate School for boys and girls on the site of the former boys school.] then completed his secondary education at Eton College. Pawyilee ( talk) 16:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The apple didn't fall far from the tree. His father's name:
-- Pawyilee ( talk) 11:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
In this edit I seem to have reverted to a former version which does not exist. I've no idea how this happened as I'm pretty sure I just clicked the undo button (hence the edit summary). I'm reverting to Patiwat's version before the IP additions just to be on the safe side. I'm pretty sure I did not do any further editing. Perhaps this was a bug in the system? Very strange. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) 11:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Sondhi's son has accused Deputy Prime Minister and senior Democrat Party figure Sanan Kachornprasart of being behind the assassination attempt. Thaksin isn't so specific, but implies that the government is killing people who know too much. Meanwhile, Abhisit's foreign minister is claiming Thaksin is behind it. This matter can now be included in the article, Abhisit being Sanan and Kasit's boss, after all. Patiwat ( talk) 12:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Gossip, name calling and unsubstaintiated conspiracy theories do not belong in an encyclepdia Ddave2425 ( talk) 01:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
None of the sources logged under the line relating to the assassination attempt include any reference to either of these accusations. God knows I've just read them all. Harlequin115 ( talk) 21:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with a GA nomination and am very doubtful of an "A" wikiproject rating (reverted now). The article has numerous problems. The "Sondhi Limthongkul assassination attempt" is just one example - Various people blamed the government without a proven basis: how is this relevant? The final paragraph of the lead is but a little hint of the POV and recentism that belies this article. Citation and discussion of pre-2006 life is pretty poor and contains over arching and leading comments (e.g. "Abhisit has occasionally been criticized for relying on his good looks to support his career.") Early political career is summed up in these simplistic sentences: "In 2001, Abhisit made a bid for party leadership, taking on a seasoned politician Banyat Bantadtan. Abhisit lost. However, Banyat led the Democrats to an overwhelming defeat by Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party in the 2005 legislative elections. Banyat resigned and Abhisit was chosen to replace him." What happened in that five year interim following these events?
Furthermore, I highly doubt the veracity of the ownership of this picture. I shall delete if from commons unless it is released under a commons compatible license. This is so far from GA and A class it's quite a premature nomination. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) 05:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
The Democrat Party, and especially Abhisit, have long stated that they support freedom of expression. It would be great to have a section on how they've helped improve freedom of expression in Thailand, especially given the harsh censorship and deregulation of the Thaksin era. But since Abhisit has only been in power for a few months, there have been few actual incidents where he has done anything with regards to this matter. When Abhisit has a few more "at bats", it would be good to have an article section on this. In the meantime, here are some citations that might be used to create such a section (please feel free to add the list, and ensure lots of different POVs). Patiwat ( talk) 00:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Surely the current protests need an article of its own, and not bunched in the middle of this article like this. Sodacan ( talk) 16:02, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
This article is obviously not a hoax. It is a biographical article on the current Prime Minister of Thailand, a man who is in the Thai and international news almost daily. Why would anybody think this were a hoax? Patiwat ( talk) 06:25, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody know when Mark first visited Thailand, and when he moved here to live? -- Pawyilee ( talk) 14:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
อภิสิทธิ์ยืนยันว่าขณะที่สมัครเข้า รร.จปร. ตนมีเอกสาร สด.๙ ที่ได้รับประมาณกลางปี พ.ศ. 2529 หลังสำเร็จการศึกษาระดับปริญญาตรีและกลับมาถึงประเทศไทย และมีรายชื่อได้รับการผ่อนผันฯ เพื่อเรียนต่อปริญญาโท ช่วงปี พ.ศ. 2530 ถึง พ.ศ. 2532 ตามบัญชีของ ก.พ. ที่จัดทำตั้งแต่ปลายปี พ.ศ. 2529 การสมัครเข้า รร.จปร. [โรงเรียนนายร้อยพระจุลจอมเกล้า] ของตนจึงเป็นการสมัครโดยมีคุณสมบัติครบถ้วน หลังจากสมัครเข้า รร.จปร. ได้ผ่านการฝึกทหารคล้ายการฝึก รด. จนครบตามหลักสูตรจึงได้รับพระราชทานยศร้อยตรี ในการขอติดยศร้อยตรีนั้นตนได้ทำเอกสาร สด.๙ หายจึงได้ไปขอออกใบแทน แต่ในการสมัครเข้า รร.จปร. ได้ใช้ สด.๙ ตัวจริงสมัคร แล้วเอกสารมีการสูญหายในภายหลัง ในการอภิปรายครั้งนี้อภิสิทธิ์ได้แสดง สำเนาบัญชีรายชื่อผู้ได้รับการยกเว้นผ่อนผันฯ และ สำเนา สด.๙ ฉบับแรกของตน ต่อที่ประชุมสภาผู้แทนราษฎรด้วย[33] -- Pawyilee ( talk) 14:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that section should be in this article at all. The province was proposal was submitted by the province government of Nong Khai in January, and submitted to cabinet by the Ministry of Interior. And in fact the proposal dates back to 1992. Except being the PM at the time that the province was approved he had nothing to do with it, or should we mention every single administrative act done by his government here? And according to this forum post, a summary of a Thai newspaper article, Abhisit was against the province and only accepted by insistence of the Minister of Interior. And the whole numerology is patent nonsense, especially as there are just 75 province (Bangkok is not a province, but a special administrative area), so Thailand would reach the unlucky number with creation of this province. Of course Thais are very superstitious and there are probably some who'd believe this, one really has to prove that Abhisit himself believes it to make it fit into the article. I'd even think this numerology shouldn't be included in the article on the province. andy ( talk) 15:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
This article is opinionated and biased, the whole thing needs trimming and NPOV writing by an uninvolved editor. Off2riorob ( talk) 15:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
There are clearly, two very strongly opposing groups of editors that have created this article. If one group is happy then it is bias to their side. Involved users all clearly sit strongly on one side of the fence or other. Articles needs a Neutral informative educational rewrite. As for specifics, it is unreadable to most users and I don't imagine in its present state that anyone even gets past the lede. I also see the article has basically been written by you - which if you hold strong feelings against the living subject will be likely reflected in the content of the article. Off2riorob ( talk) 16:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
To follow up, here is a proposed outline for the page. Most of this should be straightforward, but let me know if there are questions about where a particular existing section could be grouped. Of course, we can have additional sub-heads under each section, but I wanted to make the page as easy as possible to navigate.
Introduction
As for additional sub-heads, domestic policy for instance could look like this:
Although I think the simpler, the better. Jeditor17 ( talk) 05:07, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
In a September 2010 speech to the Council for Foreign Relations based in New York, Abhisit compared the UDD to Al-Qaeda. I think this comparison needs to be placed in the article, since it shows how he thinks of his opposition. Context:
He also defended himself against accusations of damaging media freedoms, saying that only outlets which "incite violence" had been closed. "I'm not sure whether you'd allow any special station for Al-Qaeda here," he told his mostly American audience.
( http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iFCUoD_iGBrFwchNJDxcmY6phsRg) Patiwat ( talk) 16:11, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, while the Abhisit (and some editors of this article) insist that he's just enforcing the law and imprisoning those that incite violence and protecting the monarchy, nearly every international human rights agency of note (in the article unfairly called "her supporters") are saying that his targets include prisoners of conscience. So this dissonance between Abhisit's rhetoric and the reality of the situation should be clearly noted. Patiwat ( talk) 08:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Does the meeting between Abhisit and the Vietnamese Prime Minister really deserve a sub-section? The fact that there was an honor guard, the length of the discussions, the duration of the photo op, trade relations statistics, etc... these all seem like extremely trivial matters, not really worthy of inclusion in a biographical article about Abhisit. I mean, there's no mention about the substance of the relations, but rather details of the visit. In the absence of any matters of worth, I'd suggest just deleting the entire sub-section. Patiwat ( talk) 20:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Strongly agree. Also does this already very long article need lame PR copy like: "Hu Jintao, Chinese leader praised Abhisit’s ability in maintain strong relationship that has been established for 35 years. After the first official visit of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to China, President Hu declared that both of the of governments would support each other in diplomatic relation in the region and economics especially international trading and investment." Writing like this reads like something out of a vanity article. Matters of substance should be the focus, not diplomatic trivia. Macaroonie ( talk) 05:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Does this really belong under the "Corruption" section? It reads like a poorly written press release, doesn't really say anything of autobiographical worth, and focuses on Abhisit's rhetoric without actually saying what he did or what the results are. I don't think it belongs in this article. Patiwat ( talk) 21:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Root to all problems Abhisit expands e-Customs to improve transparency and discretion of custom officials. “Corruption rests at the roots of Thailand's current political problems and public resentment about social and economic gaps within the country”. Corruption has always been a trigger to all sorts of conflicts in Thailand. "Even though we have systems and laws and organisations dedicated to countering corruption, it remains a long-standing problem." Still, corruption can be seen in every part of the society. Abhisit says that enforcing the laws more seriously does not work on its own, ensuring a sufficient salaries within the civil service to introduce gradual and persistent efforts of “morals and a sense of civic duty among staff, department heads and leaders” [78]
Excuse me if I think that the following, which is copied verbatim from a newspaper article, does not belong in this article. Patiwat ( talk) 21:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Medical Malpractice Victim Protection Bill Despite the opposing voices, Abhisit continues to support public health protection and refuses to drop the Medical Malpractice Victim Protection Bill on the on-going legislative process furthermore, set up a national-level committee to improve the draft before sending the final copy to the parliament. "We need to push ahead with the legislation. For some contentious points in this bill, all sides just need to talk and cooperate," Abhisit spoke after a meeting with the Network for People's Medical Protection representatives and the Federation of Medical Workers, where both sides seeks to have a national committee set-up to improve the bill.[79]
Does this article really need a section on Thai-Japanese relations if the following is all there is to say? Patiwat ( talk) 21:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Cordial ties between Japan and Thailand Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada affirms strong ties between Japan and Thailand, showing that he still has confidence in the Thai economy. The meeting covers the exchange of ideas on different matters, relationships in trade and the investment of the two countries. forward.[96]
I don't think the stuff on the Rohingya refugee scandal belongs in the Foreign Relations - Myanmar section. Because Myanmar really didn't have anything to do with it, other than being the source of the refugees. Myanmar never really had any say in the whole matter, and it really didn't impact relations with Myanmar. I think the more appropriate categorization would be Human Rights, and it belongs in the section 4.4 (Scandals and criticisms). Patiwat ( talk) 15:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
I've made the first substantive changes to the introduction, although I still have only added and moved content, and not deleted anything. Most of the changes should be self-explanatory, such as adding education history and a more detailed description of how Abhisit became Prime Minister. I also moved much of the information on the various back-and-forth between Abhisit and Thaksin to the appropriate subhed. This goes back to the point yesterday, but basically, this information is too detailed and cumbersome for someone new to Thai politics. (It was even confusing for me at times.) It can be much better handled -- and given proper context to hopefully avoid future edit wars -- if moved below. I haven't worked on the last paragraph of the intro, but that's where I will try to summarize any relavent information -- good and bad -- that needs to be included in the introduction, and can't be handled in a subsection (or separate article for that matter -- as should be the case for some of the longer sections further down Abhisit's entry.) Also, the Thaksin section will obviously have to be re-worked now that I moved some of the intro content into it. Hopefully I'll get to that today as well. Jeditor17 ( talk) 06:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I do not see any problem with the second paragraph. As it is similar to what Barack Obama and David Cameron have on their top section of their webpage. So if it is perfectly fine on theirs, I think it should be fine here too. nogia123 ( talk) 16:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Somebody has put a "Needs additional references or sources for verification" note in the article. But I see no "citation needed" tags in the article. If parts of the article really need extra citations, please add "citation needed" tags as appropriate. Patiwat ( talk) 16:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I've finished the first rewrite of the introduction, focusing on removing the most blatant NPOV stuff, and generally trying to make it easier to read. I think it still has some issues. For instance, it includes the UDD's accusation that Abhisit is an illegitimate prime minister. I understand the arguments about the coup, but Abhisit was still elected by Parliament and endorsed by the King. The claim may be better described below in either the section about his rise to office, or on the political protests. Also, the intro still has a lot of detail on the protests, which is probably better suited for a subsection. I also question whether death toll and injuries belong in the introduction at all. Obviously they are important in a historical context when describing the issues Abhisit faced during his first year and a half in office. But I don't want to create the impression that he was complicit in or caused the deaths. Before removing any of this information though, I would really like some input from the Wikipedia community. This is obviously a highly sensitive area, and I'm trying to tread lightly.
With that all said, I propose we remove "lead too long" under the multiple issues tag. The lead may still have problems, but length-wise it's within acceptable guidelines. Thoughts? Jeditor17 ( talk) 09:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I propose we remove this all together. It's a huge stretch to call it a "scandal," it has little to do with Abhisit, it's given undue weight in the article, and Wikipedia doesn't -- and shouldn't -- serve as a laundry list of examples of government waste. If it did, I can't imagine how long some of these articles would be :) Anyone disagree? Jeditor17 ( talk) 03:30, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree that both section should be remove from the page. GT200 scandal has a very weak connection with Abhisit. The article only mention how he denfended the issue but fail to show any deeper connection with the GT200. Despite the accusation on Abhisits wealth, "Unusual Wealth" did not show any importance or why it should be in this article. Nogia123 ( talk) 06:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Tackling the political protests section now. This is a sensitive subject, so I wanted to briefly explain my approach. First, when in doubt I'm just removing biased content -- particularly if it has nothing/little to do with Abhisit -- rather than trying to add context. For instance, the whole explanation of the military dispersing protestors during the 2009 protests was particularly offensive. The sources cited all said the military showed restraint. But the actual text focused exclusively on the fact that Human Rights Watch acknowledged some live rounds were fired at protestors. Rather than explain that Human Rights Watch actually praised the restraint of the military, and make a messy section even longer, I just opted to take the whole thing out. Similarly, the UDD's claim that dozens were killed (although there was no link to the Bangkok Post articles cited) was both a minority view and not supported by any of the sources I could actually pull up. I tried to use the Bangkok Post archives to find the articles as well, but they weren't available. I'm not going to take the time to explain every decision I make with respect to this section -- because I'll end up spending more time on the talk page than the Wiki article -- but if someone has a question or criticism with respect to this section, just say so, and we can talk through it. One last point: The protests are obviously important. But this section is way too long and is better handled in detail in Wiki articles specific to that topic. So in addition to editing for NPOV, I'm also generally just trying to cut the whole section down. In other words, my apologies if it seems like I'm editing more with an axe than a scalpel. Thanks! Jeditor17 ( talk) 04:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
If users 129.78.32.22 or 69.181.249.92 would like to dicuss my removal of the Sondhi section, I would be happy to do it here. It's inaccurate to say I didn't explain the decision though. Re-posting my comments -- and the relavent discussion -- from above. I will leave the section up for now (even though it's a stretch, given the rules on biographies of living persons.) But absent any further argument for its inclusion, I will again remove it from the page. Here is a repost of the complete discussion:
Sondhi's son has accused Deputy Prime Minister and senior Democrat Party figure Sanan Kachornprasart of being behind the assassination attempt. Thaksin isn't so specific, but implies that the government is killing people who know too much. Meanwhile, Abhisit's foreign minister is claiming Thaksin is behind it. This matter can now be included in the article, Abhisit being Sanan and Kasit's boss, after all. Patiwat (talk) 12:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Gossip, name calling and unsubstaintiated conspiracy theories do not belong in an encyclepdia Ddave2425 (talk) 01:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
The new user dave is not expressing this well, but I agree that the assassination attempt is pretty tangential. All that connects these two topics are veiled implications from rival factions. The only thing that need be noted is if an official claimed that Vejjajiva was connected with this. If no one stated this accusation then removal of the information is a wise option. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 04:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC) None of the sources logged under the line relating to the assassination attempt include any reference to either of these accusations. God knows I've just read them all. Harlequin115 (talk) 21:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and remove the section, per this discussion. There's nothing concrete here, as written it's only loosely connected to Abhisit, and posting unfounded and vague accusations on something this serious sets a bad precedent. Using quotes with phrases like "I have the impression" and "it is said that" -- with no additional supporting detail -- should be reason enough to delete the section. Same goes with the claim that Thaksin is behind it (as supported by the defamation suit he just filed against Newin in a case very similar to this.) Jeditor17 (talk) 05:13, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Any input would be appreciated. Jeditor17 ( talk) 05:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Discussion? What discussion? Some comments last year, another comment made months ago? Accusations of the government's involvement in the attempted assassination of a major political figure is not "name calling!" (especially when the accuser was the target of the assassination). It should at least be stated that the accusation was made, members of Abhisit's government denied it, and that a government investigation ended up nowhere. Patiwat ( talk) 14:11, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Someone removed all mentions of corruption scandals in Abhisit's Cabinet in the lead and added some note about his advocacy of "stronger anti-corruption measures." Yes, but other than some speeches has he actually enacted any anti-corruption measures? Not that know of. The lead should summarize the key points of the article, and the article shouldn't be focusing on rhetoric but the reality Abhisit's leadership. And the reality is in numerous cases of corruption in Abhisit's hand-picked Cabinet. Rather than some rather rhetoric without any tangible actions. Patiwat ( talk) 07:48, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Very poorly written and POV. Why is this article turning into a press release by an incompetent Government House PR hack? Patiwat ( talk) 07:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
PAD occasionally claimed that Abhisit’s premiership was from their protest. Leading to numerous demands from Abhisit as the PAD believed that the Democrat Party owes favor to the PAD, which was denied by the Democrat Party. As Abhisit’s sees it differently, believing that his priority is the people’s interest. Abhisit focuses mainly on the interest of the people and the lower class citizens shown through the “People’s Agenda” policy platform and that the government must be “honest and truly democratic government” without any conflict of interest.[136][137] Leading to PAD’s development of new political party “Thien Hang Dhama” which is later changed to “New Political Party” to drive their new “ideology”[138]. Claiming that Democrat party only protects their own interest and ineffectively solving the country’s problem[139].Democrat has now created a new challenge as both party’s political base overlap[140].
No, I am merely just trying to make this article as neutral as possible. Please give further explaination on how this section is biased? I do not understand why saying abhisit denies the demands of PAD is biased? or having a policy and living up to it is being biased? Whereas, many section in this article barely link to Abhisit. Please do make any suggestions to improve it, not just merely finding faults. nogia123 ( talk) 09:16, 7 October 2010(UTC)
NPOV means multiple points of view, not just your own. You're a very new editor, and nearly all your edits are on Abhisit - it might benefit you to read up on Wikipedia policies. If you want to provide Abhisit's point of view, you also have to provide other opposing points of view. On the specific issue of PAD/Abhisit relations, the PAD said that Abhisit was their choice, Abhisit picked a senior PAD leader as a key Cabinet minister, and the PAD declined to compete with the Democrats in a key election a few months ago. And please, simply stating his stated goals like PR man doesn't really cut it after two years in power and the results of his actions are already evident. Any statement of his claimed policies must also be compared/contrasted with the reality of what actually happened. Patiwat ( talk) 13:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
I understand, will try to improve it. Hopefully, we can make this article neutral as much as possible. nogia123 ( talk) 06:16, October 2010(UTC)
I propose we either delete this section, or move it to Thaksin's page. Other than the fact that Abhisit's deputy said the event was staged, I don't see any connection at all. The whole "controversy" is about an alleged spy revealing Thaksin's flight plans, and then Thaksin requesting a pardon for the man. It has a lot more to do with him than Abhisit. If no one has any thoughts or objections, I'll just move it to Thaksin's page, because in general I don't like deleting content outright. But either way, I don't see any justification for leaving it on Abhisit's page. Jeditor17 ( talk) 09:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I think it could be summarized under Thaksin's section on Abhisit's page and then linked to Thaksin's page. Even through there is not a strong link between Abhisit and the incident, but Suthep and Kasit is in the Abhisit government. Therefore, there should be atleast some information on this issue, however not on Foregin Relation section of the page. nogia123 ( talk) 09:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Even though this picture is a traditional thai outfit. But it might send out wrong messages to foreigners despite the conflicts that is happening in Thailand between Politics and the military. Nogia123 04:35, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Just undid an edit to the intro that made four changes. The first two weren't huge deals, but it's still more accurate to talk about what happened to Abhisit's immediate predecessor than a vague sentence about the dissolution of governing coalitions, and describing the People's Agenda as populist would be fine if it were explained. The last two changes were more problematic. Including accusations of human rights abuses, without actual explanation or specific charges, looks on its face to be an attempt simply to discredit Abhisit. Literally almost every government in the world is accused of "human rights abuses," and vague generalities don't belong in a BLP, let alone the intro. Also, it is inaccurate to imply that Abhisit proposed a reconciliation plan as a result of a violent "military crackdown." The plan was meant to address years of political divisions, not one day. Not to mention, it's called a "reconciliation" plan because it takes into account both sides. If it were an "apology" plan, it might make more sense to point solely to the crackdown. Anyway, there are a lot of other supporting arguments on the dicussion board, so I'm not going to bother to rehash everything here. Jeditor17 ( talk) 04:12, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm quite astounded that ALL references to Abhisit's human rights record have been removed from the article. Surely the PR hacks that regularly cruise the article have at least something good to say about his rhetoric? It's sad how far back into the article history I'll have to dig to retrieve some of this stuff. Patiwat ( talk) 08:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Adding relevant information on the 2010 floods. Note that articles on GW Bush and Obama contain 1-3 paragraphs each on Katrina and the BP spill. Patiwat ( talk) 08:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
YES Dunno who suggested it when, but it's a darn good idea. BTW, he was born and raised in England: his native language is English! -- Pawyilee ( talk) 15:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
20 December 2008 version said
After studying at Chulalongkorn University’s Demonstration School, he transferred to Scaitcliffe School
— quote
That was unreferenced so I've left it out, added back his teaching post in Bangkok, and asked for help at Talk:Bishopsgate School#Notable graduates. As for He is fluent in both his mother tongue and the English language, I heard him on BBC today and yes, he's fluent in English, but no, it's not his mother tongue. What about blind-linking the lede "born in England" to "born in [[Thais in the United Kingdom|England]]" which says:
Besides private tutoring, there are many places across the country specialising in teaching of the Thai language, Wat Buddhapadipa, the Bournemouth Thai School, the Brasshouse Language Centre and the School of Oriental and African Studies all help the young Thai immigrants in the UK to keep their mother tongue whilst still encouraging the learning of English.
— quote
I put his ancestors in order, added their Thai spellings, but left remarks on the meanings above, under "The apple didn't fall far from the tree." I added "known throughout Thailand as CP" to Charoen Pokphand Group without a reference, but if you're in Thailand, you'll see those initials in just about every market. Won't hurt to delete it. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 09:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
At this point, I propose we remove the tags. The article isn't anywhere near perfect, but I think a lot of the blatant original research, neutrality and verification problems have been addressed. The tags aren't meant to be a badge of shame and they have been up since September 2010. At the very least, the tags can be taken down, the entire article can be reviewed again, and if applicable, new tags can be applied. Jeditor17 ( talk) 07:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
-- Pawyilee ( talk) 13:10, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
The article claims that "Under the guidance of Abhisit's administration, the BTS sky train, which is a rail-based mass transit system in Bangkok, launched a new 2.2-kilometre extension linking the Saphan Taksin Bridge." Abhisit has no authority over the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, which is in charge of the BTS. The BMA governor was elected, not appointed by Abhisit. Abhisit can't fire or replace the governor. And besides, the Taksin extension was NOT initiated under the Abhisit government. The plans have been place years before Abhisit. ParkKimLim ( talk) 02:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
This guy's given name is MARK! The Thai press often refers to him by its Thai transliteration, "มาร์ค" enclosed in quotation marks, and is consequently is his nickname for political purposes. Why has mention of this been removed from the article and the only reference to his given name buried in footnote 20? While his given name is spelled in roman letters M-A-R-K, the Thai transliteration becomes his political nickname, which should be given prominence in any article about any Southeast Asian political figure, Too, like I said before, if his Thai personal name is not preceded with some sort of honorific, it changes from a Proper noun to a common noun meaning "privilege," which has rather important consequences in Thailand's political atmosphere. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 16:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
.
Bkk john2 did a good job cleaning up the article, but the Maldives story was not bogus: Abhisit admits to Maldives trip amid Thailand flood crisis -- Pawyilee ( talk) 12:47, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
This is interesting. The references to both the award of the Palace Name to Dr. Long and its meaning in English proffered to a Bangkok Post reporter have been blocked. What to do about it goes above my pay grade.-- Pawyilee ( talk) 15:31, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Before adding OR deleting images, please read Thailand's public-domain exemptions. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 13:40, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The article contains nothing about Abhisit as leader of the opposition. Perhaps this article suggests a place to start.
PM was called a “stupid bitch” by the leader of the opposition
[F]emale Democrat Party MPs defended in parliament Mr. Abhisit’s ee-ngo remark that it was “not vulgar” and “not an insult” as the meaning of such an expression “depends on the context.”
Wiktionary link for Thai ee defines the term translated as "bitch" as a "derogatory prefix for certain terms pertaining to women or girls, or certain animals or farm machinery." Thai: โง่ (th) (ngôh) is included in the Wiktionary link for stupid under Translations show "lacking in intelligence".
I'm not suggesting the name-calling be included, but the “stupid bitch” article contains — and also links to — numerous salient issues related to leadership on both sides of the aisle, that do not necessarily call anyone “stupid.” — Pawyilee ( talk) 06:56, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
"born Mark Abhisit Vejjajiva." I want to see a source that "Mark" was ever part of his legal name. Othwerwise I'll delete it. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 13:19, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
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--- pronunciation
The pronunciation voice seems to have a strong english accent. Maybe a Thai people can record it again. It's accurate but you can hear the english accent ...
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Abhisit Vejjajiva was copied or moved into 2010 Thai political protests with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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Excuse me, but it seems that the red-shirt protesters has move the front from the street to here on Wikipedia. Look at the sentence : In a pre-dawn raid on Monday April 13, Thai soldiers in full combat gear used tear gas and fired live rounds and training rounds from automatic weapons to clear protesters from the Din Daeng intersection near the Victory Monument in central Bangkok, injuring at least 70 people.[92] [93] The Army later claimed that live rounds were only fired into the air while training rounds were fired at the crowd. Human Rights Watch later confirmed that live ammunition was fired directly at protesters.[94]
The sentence quite jumped at me. Then, when I go see the citation... What the !@#? The Human rights watch group just says:
Mr Thaksin's "red shirt" followers, who claim the four month old government is illegitimate, "attacked approaching soldiers with guns, Molotov bombs, improvised grenades, slingshots, and rocks", the New York based group said. The group praised the restraint shown by most soldiers but said there were cases where live ammunition was fired directly at protesters.
What the clearly-red-shirt wikipedia writer (whose name starts with a 'P') reported is blatantly false and misleading. Please consider action on this false writer's statement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donny TH ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Someone deleted two notes of trivia in the "Trivia" section. The first noted that Abhisit was an avid football fan. The second noted that Abhisit liked rock music, namely R.E.M.]. These are both taken from Abhisit's personal biography page. I'd argue that in a wikipedia biographical article, trivia like this serves some purpose, namely shedding light on Abhisit's personal character and demographics. While many older Thai politicians gain patronage from sponsoring Muay Thai matches and like to karaoke to Suntharaphorn and other 50's singers, Abhisit is relatively young, and his hobbies and interests reflect that youth. Patiwat 20:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
If matters are considered important, they should go in the body of the article. "Trivia" is by definition trivial and therefore unencyclopaedic. Adam 04:35, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
How many generations do people of Chinese ancestry have to live in Thailand before they stop being "Thai-Chinese"? Most of the Thai upper and middle classes have some Chinese ancestry, since the two communities have freely intermarried in urban areas for more than a century. I think it is inherently racist, and intentionally so, to tag people as "Thai-Chinese" when they are fouth-generation Thais, and thoroughly Thai in culture and upbringing. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 10:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
Apparently the Chinese who settle down in other countries do not assimiliate/intergrate well, but rather stick to their own roots. If they live in new country - especially if they're born in new country - they should live like local people. Yet they don't. So it is fair to call them Chinese. This applies to Chinese in Malaysia, Indonesia or the Philippines too. They are the ones who cause other people to call them Chinese. Bunio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.129.8.205 ( talk) 03:17, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
If anyone wants an image for this article there is one at the Irish Wikipedia [1] Royal Mate1 23:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
... พวกเธอจะรู้อะไรกับกลการเมืองพวกที่ถืออถิสิทธิ๋อยู่เหนือกฏหมายมันจ้างมา ... You all should know that in politics those upholding privilege are above the law. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 06:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
I have deleted the statement that "Abhisit" means "privilege" in Thai since it comes from a highly anti-Abhisit website. Can someone confirm or refute this statement?
Intelligent Mr Toad (
talk)
08:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
http://www.thai-language.com/dict/
- 1.อภิสิทธิ์ noun privilege; monopoly; exclusive right
- 2.อภิสิทธิ์ชน noun a privileged person
- 3.อภิสิทธิ์ชน noun the privileged class
http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/22000.html
- อภิสิทธิ์ [N] privilege ; prerogative
http://rirs3.royin.go.th/dictionary.asp
- อภิ คําประกอบหน้าศัพท์ที่มาจากภาษาบาลีและสันสกฤต มีความหมายว่า ยิ่ง, วิเศษ, เหนือ, เช่น อภิรมย์ = ยินดียิ่ง, อภิญญาณ = ความรู้วิเศษ, อภิมนุษย์ = มนุษย์ที่เหนือ มนุษย์ทั้งหลาย. (ป.)
- สิทธิ, สิทธิ์ [สิดทิ, สิด] น. อำนาจอันชอบธรรม เช่น บุคคลมีสิทธิและ หน้าที่ตามรัฐธรรมนูญ เขามีสิทธิ์ในที่ดินแปลงนี้. (ป., ส.); (กฎ) อํานาจที่จะกระทําการใด ๆ ได้อย่างอิสระ โดยได้รับการรับรองจากกฎหมาย. (อ. right).
Pawyilee ( talk) 14:12, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I acknowledge that, for Thais, there is an important distinction between Thai ethnicity and Thai nationality. Persons of Thai nationality are not necessarily of Thai ethnicity. In a country like Australia (where I live) there is no such distinction, because there is no "Australian ethnicity." For readers of the Thai Wikipedia, this distinction may be self-evident. But for readers of the English Wikipedia, it is not, and needs to be explained. If someone in Australia refered to Penny Wong, for example, as being "Australian-Chinese" in an article, this would be regarded as very racist unless it had some relevance to the topic of the article. Calling Abhisit a "Thai-Chinese" when his family have lived in Thailand for four generations appears racist to most English-speaking readers. If this expression is to be used it needs some explanation of how Thais view ethnicity and nationality. But I also question its relevance given that most of the Thai upper class have some Chinese descent. I don't think anyone refers to the current King as a "Thai-Chinese", although the mother of Rama I was part-Chinese. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 00:47, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Not a geomancer but an astrologer would have been consulted, if his parents followed tradition, and his parents may have been high enough up in elite society to have consulted the same palace that awarded their family name. The most important consideration is that the initial consonant อ is consonant with the weekday of birth. I've been told "Abhisit" is an abominable transliteration, though NOT as abominable as that of the family name, but the Palace has its own rules, which override others. The same source says "Abhisit" is a fairly common given name, given that so many babies are born on the consonant day of the week, but, this being Southeast Asia, it is customary to use other names bestowed later, by parents, playmates, friends, enemies and the occasional king. Everything about PM Abhisit marks him as one of the elite of the elite (except his nickname "Mark," which likely follows post- Hobbesian English custom as a sound signifying naught but a place-holder). But we really need a native Thai editor to join this discussion of what place "Abhisit" holds among his friends. We've already commented on the place it holds among his enemies. Currently in Bangkok where my wife insists we discuss the topic sub voce, if not subsiste sermonem statim. Pawyilee ( talk) 14:02, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As to the meaning of his given name, I'm not pleased with the way it reads now:
I'd like to move the parenthetical comment to the end of the section, remove the parentheses, and expand it to establish his name's "auspicious" beginning:
Then go on explain how it is used in the current political environment by his enemies. Can't be done without references! (Thaksin's article needs a somewhat similar entry on his childhood play-name that has his enemies lampooning him as a cat!) Pawyilee ( talk) 14:28, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
The Thai-language article is more interested in the origin of his family's Thai name:
สกุล "เวชชาชีวะ" หรือ "Vejjajiva" เป็นนามสกุลพระราชทานสมัย รัชกาลที่ 6 ลำดับที่ 4,881 จากนามสกุลพระราชทานสมัย ร.6 ที่พระราชทาน รวมทั้งสิ้น 6,423 นามสกุล โดยพระราชทานให้กับรองอำมาตย์ตรีหลง (หลง เวชชาชีวะ) แพทย์ประจำจังหวัดลพบุรี กับ นายจิ๊นแสง (บิดา) นายเป๋ง (ปู่) และนายก่อ (ปู่ทวด) เนื่องจากเป็นต้นตระกูลเป็นแพทย์จึงมีคำว่า "เวช" [Doctor, physician] อยู่ในนามสกุลด้วย Source
Pawyilee ( talk) 14:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
.... During the reign of Rama VI, three generations of Yuan-clan Lopburi provincial physicians were given palace-name number 4,881 (of 6,423) "Vejjajiva"—"Vej" (TH "เวช") signifying physician: Mr. Chen Saeng (TH นายจิ๊นแสง) (father,) Mr. Peng (TH นายเป๋ง) (grandfather) and Mr. Ko (TH นายก่อ) (great-grandfather.) [22:same source as Thai article, above] PM Abhisit, himself a fourth-generation Thai Chinese, is of this lineage. [23:somebody entered this ref; I haven't read it] (His given name should be preceded by an honorific or followed by his family name, as otherwise it reverts to a noun signifying privilege; monopoly; exclusive right.)[24:thai-language.com/dict/ entry, above][25:On-line Royal Institute Dictionary 1995 entries, above]
Revert or edit as you please. Oh, and I tinkered with the entry on his prep school, too, to read: ...he transferred to [[Scaitcliffe School|Bishospsgate_School]],[17:Formerly a preparatory boys school, Scaitcliffe merged in 1996 with Virginia Water girls preparatory school to form Bishopsgate School for boys and girls on the site of the former boys school.] then completed his secondary education at Eton College. Pawyilee ( talk) 16:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The apple didn't fall far from the tree. His father's name:
-- Pawyilee ( talk) 11:11, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
In this edit I seem to have reverted to a former version which does not exist. I've no idea how this happened as I'm pretty sure I just clicked the undo button (hence the edit summary). I'm reverting to Patiwat's version before the IP additions just to be on the safe side. I'm pretty sure I did not do any further editing. Perhaps this was a bug in the system? Very strange. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) 11:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Sondhi's son has accused Deputy Prime Minister and senior Democrat Party figure Sanan Kachornprasart of being behind the assassination attempt. Thaksin isn't so specific, but implies that the government is killing people who know too much. Meanwhile, Abhisit's foreign minister is claiming Thaksin is behind it. This matter can now be included in the article, Abhisit being Sanan and Kasit's boss, after all. Patiwat ( talk) 12:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Gossip, name calling and unsubstaintiated conspiracy theories do not belong in an encyclepdia Ddave2425 ( talk) 01:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
None of the sources logged under the line relating to the assassination attempt include any reference to either of these accusations. God knows I've just read them all. Harlequin115 ( talk) 21:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I strongly disagree with a GA nomination and am very doubtful of an "A" wikiproject rating (reverted now). The article has numerous problems. The "Sondhi Limthongkul assassination attempt" is just one example - Various people blamed the government without a proven basis: how is this relevant? The final paragraph of the lead is but a little hint of the POV and recentism that belies this article. Citation and discussion of pre-2006 life is pretty poor and contains over arching and leading comments (e.g. "Abhisit has occasionally been criticized for relying on his good looks to support his career.") Early political career is summed up in these simplistic sentences: "In 2001, Abhisit made a bid for party leadership, taking on a seasoned politician Banyat Bantadtan. Abhisit lost. However, Banyat led the Democrats to an overwhelming defeat by Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party in the 2005 legislative elections. Banyat resigned and Abhisit was chosen to replace him." What happened in that five year interim following these events?
Furthermore, I highly doubt the veracity of the ownership of this picture. I shall delete if from commons unless it is released under a commons compatible license. This is so far from GA and A class it's quite a premature nomination. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) ( edits) 05:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
The Democrat Party, and especially Abhisit, have long stated that they support freedom of expression. It would be great to have a section on how they've helped improve freedom of expression in Thailand, especially given the harsh censorship and deregulation of the Thaksin era. But since Abhisit has only been in power for a few months, there have been few actual incidents where he has done anything with regards to this matter. When Abhisit has a few more "at bats", it would be good to have an article section on this. In the meantime, here are some citations that might be used to create such a section (please feel free to add the list, and ensure lots of different POVs). Patiwat ( talk) 00:07, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Surely the current protests need an article of its own, and not bunched in the middle of this article like this. Sodacan ( talk) 16:02, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
This article is obviously not a hoax. It is a biographical article on the current Prime Minister of Thailand, a man who is in the Thai and international news almost daily. Why would anybody think this were a hoax? Patiwat ( talk) 06:25, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody know when Mark first visited Thailand, and when he moved here to live? -- Pawyilee ( talk) 14:37, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
อภิสิทธิ์ยืนยันว่าขณะที่สมัครเข้า รร.จปร. ตนมีเอกสาร สด.๙ ที่ได้รับประมาณกลางปี พ.ศ. 2529 หลังสำเร็จการศึกษาระดับปริญญาตรีและกลับมาถึงประเทศไทย และมีรายชื่อได้รับการผ่อนผันฯ เพื่อเรียนต่อปริญญาโท ช่วงปี พ.ศ. 2530 ถึง พ.ศ. 2532 ตามบัญชีของ ก.พ. ที่จัดทำตั้งแต่ปลายปี พ.ศ. 2529 การสมัครเข้า รร.จปร. [โรงเรียนนายร้อยพระจุลจอมเกล้า] ของตนจึงเป็นการสมัครโดยมีคุณสมบัติครบถ้วน หลังจากสมัครเข้า รร.จปร. ได้ผ่านการฝึกทหารคล้ายการฝึก รด. จนครบตามหลักสูตรจึงได้รับพระราชทานยศร้อยตรี ในการขอติดยศร้อยตรีนั้นตนได้ทำเอกสาร สด.๙ หายจึงได้ไปขอออกใบแทน แต่ในการสมัครเข้า รร.จปร. ได้ใช้ สด.๙ ตัวจริงสมัคร แล้วเอกสารมีการสูญหายในภายหลัง ในการอภิปรายครั้งนี้อภิสิทธิ์ได้แสดง สำเนาบัญชีรายชื่อผู้ได้รับการยกเว้นผ่อนผันฯ และ สำเนา สด.๙ ฉบับแรกของตน ต่อที่ประชุมสภาผู้แทนราษฎรด้วย[33] -- Pawyilee ( talk) 14:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that section should be in this article at all. The province was proposal was submitted by the province government of Nong Khai in January, and submitted to cabinet by the Ministry of Interior. And in fact the proposal dates back to 1992. Except being the PM at the time that the province was approved he had nothing to do with it, or should we mention every single administrative act done by his government here? And according to this forum post, a summary of a Thai newspaper article, Abhisit was against the province and only accepted by insistence of the Minister of Interior. And the whole numerology is patent nonsense, especially as there are just 75 province (Bangkok is not a province, but a special administrative area), so Thailand would reach the unlucky number with creation of this province. Of course Thais are very superstitious and there are probably some who'd believe this, one really has to prove that Abhisit himself believes it to make it fit into the article. I'd even think this numerology shouldn't be included in the article on the province. andy ( talk) 15:13, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
This article is opinionated and biased, the whole thing needs trimming and NPOV writing by an uninvolved editor. Off2riorob ( talk) 15:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
There are clearly, two very strongly opposing groups of editors that have created this article. If one group is happy then it is bias to their side. Involved users all clearly sit strongly on one side of the fence or other. Articles needs a Neutral informative educational rewrite. As for specifics, it is unreadable to most users and I don't imagine in its present state that anyone even gets past the lede. I also see the article has basically been written by you - which if you hold strong feelings against the living subject will be likely reflected in the content of the article. Off2riorob ( talk) 16:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
To follow up, here is a proposed outline for the page. Most of this should be straightforward, but let me know if there are questions about where a particular existing section could be grouped. Of course, we can have additional sub-heads under each section, but I wanted to make the page as easy as possible to navigate.
Introduction
As for additional sub-heads, domestic policy for instance could look like this:
Although I think the simpler, the better. Jeditor17 ( talk) 05:07, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
In a September 2010 speech to the Council for Foreign Relations based in New York, Abhisit compared the UDD to Al-Qaeda. I think this comparison needs to be placed in the article, since it shows how he thinks of his opposition. Context:
He also defended himself against accusations of damaging media freedoms, saying that only outlets which "incite violence" had been closed. "I'm not sure whether you'd allow any special station for Al-Qaeda here," he told his mostly American audience.
( http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iFCUoD_iGBrFwchNJDxcmY6phsRg) Patiwat ( talk) 16:11, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
Well, while the Abhisit (and some editors of this article) insist that he's just enforcing the law and imprisoning those that incite violence and protecting the monarchy, nearly every international human rights agency of note (in the article unfairly called "her supporters") are saying that his targets include prisoners of conscience. So this dissonance between Abhisit's rhetoric and the reality of the situation should be clearly noted. Patiwat ( talk) 08:14, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Does the meeting between Abhisit and the Vietnamese Prime Minister really deserve a sub-section? The fact that there was an honor guard, the length of the discussions, the duration of the photo op, trade relations statistics, etc... these all seem like extremely trivial matters, not really worthy of inclusion in a biographical article about Abhisit. I mean, there's no mention about the substance of the relations, but rather details of the visit. In the absence of any matters of worth, I'd suggest just deleting the entire sub-section. Patiwat ( talk) 20:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Strongly agree. Also does this already very long article need lame PR copy like: "Hu Jintao, Chinese leader praised Abhisit’s ability in maintain strong relationship that has been established for 35 years. After the first official visit of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to China, President Hu declared that both of the of governments would support each other in diplomatic relation in the region and economics especially international trading and investment." Writing like this reads like something out of a vanity article. Matters of substance should be the focus, not diplomatic trivia. Macaroonie ( talk) 05:56, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
Does this really belong under the "Corruption" section? It reads like a poorly written press release, doesn't really say anything of autobiographical worth, and focuses on Abhisit's rhetoric without actually saying what he did or what the results are. I don't think it belongs in this article. Patiwat ( talk) 21:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Root to all problems Abhisit expands e-Customs to improve transparency and discretion of custom officials. “Corruption rests at the roots of Thailand's current political problems and public resentment about social and economic gaps within the country”. Corruption has always been a trigger to all sorts of conflicts in Thailand. "Even though we have systems and laws and organisations dedicated to countering corruption, it remains a long-standing problem." Still, corruption can be seen in every part of the society. Abhisit says that enforcing the laws more seriously does not work on its own, ensuring a sufficient salaries within the civil service to introduce gradual and persistent efforts of “morals and a sense of civic duty among staff, department heads and leaders” [78]
Excuse me if I think that the following, which is copied verbatim from a newspaper article, does not belong in this article. Patiwat ( talk) 21:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Medical Malpractice Victim Protection Bill Despite the opposing voices, Abhisit continues to support public health protection and refuses to drop the Medical Malpractice Victim Protection Bill on the on-going legislative process furthermore, set up a national-level committee to improve the draft before sending the final copy to the parliament. "We need to push ahead with the legislation. For some contentious points in this bill, all sides just need to talk and cooperate," Abhisit spoke after a meeting with the Network for People's Medical Protection representatives and the Federation of Medical Workers, where both sides seeks to have a national committee set-up to improve the bill.[79]
Does this article really need a section on Thai-Japanese relations if the following is all there is to say? Patiwat ( talk) 21:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Cordial ties between Japan and Thailand Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada affirms strong ties between Japan and Thailand, showing that he still has confidence in the Thai economy. The meeting covers the exchange of ideas on different matters, relationships in trade and the investment of the two countries. forward.[96]
I don't think the stuff on the Rohingya refugee scandal belongs in the Foreign Relations - Myanmar section. Because Myanmar really didn't have anything to do with it, other than being the source of the refugees. Myanmar never really had any say in the whole matter, and it really didn't impact relations with Myanmar. I think the more appropriate categorization would be Human Rights, and it belongs in the section 4.4 (Scandals and criticisms). Patiwat ( talk) 15:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
I've made the first substantive changes to the introduction, although I still have only added and moved content, and not deleted anything. Most of the changes should be self-explanatory, such as adding education history and a more detailed description of how Abhisit became Prime Minister. I also moved much of the information on the various back-and-forth between Abhisit and Thaksin to the appropriate subhed. This goes back to the point yesterday, but basically, this information is too detailed and cumbersome for someone new to Thai politics. (It was even confusing for me at times.) It can be much better handled -- and given proper context to hopefully avoid future edit wars -- if moved below. I haven't worked on the last paragraph of the intro, but that's where I will try to summarize any relavent information -- good and bad -- that needs to be included in the introduction, and can't be handled in a subsection (or separate article for that matter -- as should be the case for some of the longer sections further down Abhisit's entry.) Also, the Thaksin section will obviously have to be re-worked now that I moved some of the intro content into it. Hopefully I'll get to that today as well. Jeditor17 ( talk) 06:55, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I do not see any problem with the second paragraph. As it is similar to what Barack Obama and David Cameron have on their top section of their webpage. So if it is perfectly fine on theirs, I think it should be fine here too. nogia123 ( talk) 16:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
Somebody has put a "Needs additional references or sources for verification" note in the article. But I see no "citation needed" tags in the article. If parts of the article really need extra citations, please add "citation needed" tags as appropriate. Patiwat ( talk) 16:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I've finished the first rewrite of the introduction, focusing on removing the most blatant NPOV stuff, and generally trying to make it easier to read. I think it still has some issues. For instance, it includes the UDD's accusation that Abhisit is an illegitimate prime minister. I understand the arguments about the coup, but Abhisit was still elected by Parliament and endorsed by the King. The claim may be better described below in either the section about his rise to office, or on the political protests. Also, the intro still has a lot of detail on the protests, which is probably better suited for a subsection. I also question whether death toll and injuries belong in the introduction at all. Obviously they are important in a historical context when describing the issues Abhisit faced during his first year and a half in office. But I don't want to create the impression that he was complicit in or caused the deaths. Before removing any of this information though, I would really like some input from the Wikipedia community. This is obviously a highly sensitive area, and I'm trying to tread lightly.
With that all said, I propose we remove "lead too long" under the multiple issues tag. The lead may still have problems, but length-wise it's within acceptable guidelines. Thoughts? Jeditor17 ( talk) 09:04, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I propose we remove this all together. It's a huge stretch to call it a "scandal," it has little to do with Abhisit, it's given undue weight in the article, and Wikipedia doesn't -- and shouldn't -- serve as a laundry list of examples of government waste. If it did, I can't imagine how long some of these articles would be :) Anyone disagree? Jeditor17 ( talk) 03:30, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree that both section should be remove from the page. GT200 scandal has a very weak connection with Abhisit. The article only mention how he denfended the issue but fail to show any deeper connection with the GT200. Despite the accusation on Abhisits wealth, "Unusual Wealth" did not show any importance or why it should be in this article. Nogia123 ( talk) 06:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Tackling the political protests section now. This is a sensitive subject, so I wanted to briefly explain my approach. First, when in doubt I'm just removing biased content -- particularly if it has nothing/little to do with Abhisit -- rather than trying to add context. For instance, the whole explanation of the military dispersing protestors during the 2009 protests was particularly offensive. The sources cited all said the military showed restraint. But the actual text focused exclusively on the fact that Human Rights Watch acknowledged some live rounds were fired at protestors. Rather than explain that Human Rights Watch actually praised the restraint of the military, and make a messy section even longer, I just opted to take the whole thing out. Similarly, the UDD's claim that dozens were killed (although there was no link to the Bangkok Post articles cited) was both a minority view and not supported by any of the sources I could actually pull up. I tried to use the Bangkok Post archives to find the articles as well, but they weren't available. I'm not going to take the time to explain every decision I make with respect to this section -- because I'll end up spending more time on the talk page than the Wiki article -- but if someone has a question or criticism with respect to this section, just say so, and we can talk through it. One last point: The protests are obviously important. But this section is way too long and is better handled in detail in Wiki articles specific to that topic. So in addition to editing for NPOV, I'm also generally just trying to cut the whole section down. In other words, my apologies if it seems like I'm editing more with an axe than a scalpel. Thanks! Jeditor17 ( talk) 04:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
If users 129.78.32.22 or 69.181.249.92 would like to dicuss my removal of the Sondhi section, I would be happy to do it here. It's inaccurate to say I didn't explain the decision though. Re-posting my comments -- and the relavent discussion -- from above. I will leave the section up for now (even though it's a stretch, given the rules on biographies of living persons.) But absent any further argument for its inclusion, I will again remove it from the page. Here is a repost of the complete discussion:
Sondhi's son has accused Deputy Prime Minister and senior Democrat Party figure Sanan Kachornprasart of being behind the assassination attempt. Thaksin isn't so specific, but implies that the government is killing people who know too much. Meanwhile, Abhisit's foreign minister is claiming Thaksin is behind it. This matter can now be included in the article, Abhisit being Sanan and Kasit's boss, after all. Patiwat (talk) 12:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
Gossip, name calling and unsubstaintiated conspiracy theories do not belong in an encyclepdia Ddave2425 (talk) 01:21, 3 May 2009 (UTC)ddave2425
The new user dave is not expressing this well, but I agree that the assassination attempt is pretty tangential. All that connects these two topics are veiled implications from rival factions. The only thing that need be noted is if an official claimed that Vejjajiva was connected with this. If no one stated this accusation then removal of the information is a wise option. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 04:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC) None of the sources logged under the line relating to the assassination attempt include any reference to either of these accusations. God knows I've just read them all. Harlequin115 (talk) 21:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and remove the section, per this discussion. There's nothing concrete here, as written it's only loosely connected to Abhisit, and posting unfounded and vague accusations on something this serious sets a bad precedent. Using quotes with phrases like "I have the impression" and "it is said that" -- with no additional supporting detail -- should be reason enough to delete the section. Same goes with the claim that Thaksin is behind it (as supported by the defamation suit he just filed against Newin in a case very similar to this.) Jeditor17 (talk) 05:13, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Any input would be appreciated. Jeditor17 ( talk) 05:28, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Discussion? What discussion? Some comments last year, another comment made months ago? Accusations of the government's involvement in the attempted assassination of a major political figure is not "name calling!" (especially when the accuser was the target of the assassination). It should at least be stated that the accusation was made, members of Abhisit's government denied it, and that a government investigation ended up nowhere. Patiwat ( talk) 14:11, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Someone removed all mentions of corruption scandals in Abhisit's Cabinet in the lead and added some note about his advocacy of "stronger anti-corruption measures." Yes, but other than some speeches has he actually enacted any anti-corruption measures? Not that know of. The lead should summarize the key points of the article, and the article shouldn't be focusing on rhetoric but the reality Abhisit's leadership. And the reality is in numerous cases of corruption in Abhisit's hand-picked Cabinet. Rather than some rather rhetoric without any tangible actions. Patiwat ( talk) 07:48, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Very poorly written and POV. Why is this article turning into a press release by an incompetent Government House PR hack? Patiwat ( talk) 07:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
PAD occasionally claimed that Abhisit’s premiership was from their protest. Leading to numerous demands from Abhisit as the PAD believed that the Democrat Party owes favor to the PAD, which was denied by the Democrat Party. As Abhisit’s sees it differently, believing that his priority is the people’s interest. Abhisit focuses mainly on the interest of the people and the lower class citizens shown through the “People’s Agenda” policy platform and that the government must be “honest and truly democratic government” without any conflict of interest.[136][137] Leading to PAD’s development of new political party “Thien Hang Dhama” which is later changed to “New Political Party” to drive their new “ideology”[138]. Claiming that Democrat party only protects their own interest and ineffectively solving the country’s problem[139].Democrat has now created a new challenge as both party’s political base overlap[140].
No, I am merely just trying to make this article as neutral as possible. Please give further explaination on how this section is biased? I do not understand why saying abhisit denies the demands of PAD is biased? or having a policy and living up to it is being biased? Whereas, many section in this article barely link to Abhisit. Please do make any suggestions to improve it, not just merely finding faults. nogia123 ( talk) 09:16, 7 October 2010(UTC)
NPOV means multiple points of view, not just your own. You're a very new editor, and nearly all your edits are on Abhisit - it might benefit you to read up on Wikipedia policies. If you want to provide Abhisit's point of view, you also have to provide other opposing points of view. On the specific issue of PAD/Abhisit relations, the PAD said that Abhisit was their choice, Abhisit picked a senior PAD leader as a key Cabinet minister, and the PAD declined to compete with the Democrats in a key election a few months ago. And please, simply stating his stated goals like PR man doesn't really cut it after two years in power and the results of his actions are already evident. Any statement of his claimed policies must also be compared/contrasted with the reality of what actually happened. Patiwat ( talk) 13:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
I understand, will try to improve it. Hopefully, we can make this article neutral as much as possible. nogia123 ( talk) 06:16, October 2010(UTC)
I propose we either delete this section, or move it to Thaksin's page. Other than the fact that Abhisit's deputy said the event was staged, I don't see any connection at all. The whole "controversy" is about an alleged spy revealing Thaksin's flight plans, and then Thaksin requesting a pardon for the man. It has a lot more to do with him than Abhisit. If no one has any thoughts or objections, I'll just move it to Thaksin's page, because in general I don't like deleting content outright. But either way, I don't see any justification for leaving it on Abhisit's page. Jeditor17 ( talk) 09:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
I think it could be summarized under Thaksin's section on Abhisit's page and then linked to Thaksin's page. Even through there is not a strong link between Abhisit and the incident, but Suthep and Kasit is in the Abhisit government. Therefore, there should be atleast some information on this issue, however not on Foregin Relation section of the page. nogia123 ( talk) 09:00, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Even though this picture is a traditional thai outfit. But it might send out wrong messages to foreigners despite the conflicts that is happening in Thailand between Politics and the military. Nogia123 04:35, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Just undid an edit to the intro that made four changes. The first two weren't huge deals, but it's still more accurate to talk about what happened to Abhisit's immediate predecessor than a vague sentence about the dissolution of governing coalitions, and describing the People's Agenda as populist would be fine if it were explained. The last two changes were more problematic. Including accusations of human rights abuses, without actual explanation or specific charges, looks on its face to be an attempt simply to discredit Abhisit. Literally almost every government in the world is accused of "human rights abuses," and vague generalities don't belong in a BLP, let alone the intro. Also, it is inaccurate to imply that Abhisit proposed a reconciliation plan as a result of a violent "military crackdown." The plan was meant to address years of political divisions, not one day. Not to mention, it's called a "reconciliation" plan because it takes into account both sides. If it were an "apology" plan, it might make more sense to point solely to the crackdown. Anyway, there are a lot of other supporting arguments on the dicussion board, so I'm not going to bother to rehash everything here. Jeditor17 ( talk) 04:12, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I'm quite astounded that ALL references to Abhisit's human rights record have been removed from the article. Surely the PR hacks that regularly cruise the article have at least something good to say about his rhetoric? It's sad how far back into the article history I'll have to dig to retrieve some of this stuff. Patiwat ( talk) 08:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Adding relevant information on the 2010 floods. Note that articles on GW Bush and Obama contain 1-3 paragraphs each on Katrina and the BP spill. Patiwat ( talk) 08:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
YES Dunno who suggested it when, but it's a darn good idea. BTW, he was born and raised in England: his native language is English! -- Pawyilee ( talk) 15:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
20 December 2008 version said
After studying at Chulalongkorn University’s Demonstration School, he transferred to Scaitcliffe School
— quote
That was unreferenced so I've left it out, added back his teaching post in Bangkok, and asked for help at Talk:Bishopsgate School#Notable graduates. As for He is fluent in both his mother tongue and the English language, I heard him on BBC today and yes, he's fluent in English, but no, it's not his mother tongue. What about blind-linking the lede "born in England" to "born in [[Thais in the United Kingdom|England]]" which says:
Besides private tutoring, there are many places across the country specialising in teaching of the Thai language, Wat Buddhapadipa, the Bournemouth Thai School, the Brasshouse Language Centre and the School of Oriental and African Studies all help the young Thai immigrants in the UK to keep their mother tongue whilst still encouraging the learning of English.
— quote
I put his ancestors in order, added their Thai spellings, but left remarks on the meanings above, under "The apple didn't fall far from the tree." I added "known throughout Thailand as CP" to Charoen Pokphand Group without a reference, but if you're in Thailand, you'll see those initials in just about every market. Won't hurt to delete it. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 09:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
At this point, I propose we remove the tags. The article isn't anywhere near perfect, but I think a lot of the blatant original research, neutrality and verification problems have been addressed. The tags aren't meant to be a badge of shame and they have been up since September 2010. At the very least, the tags can be taken down, the entire article can be reviewed again, and if applicable, new tags can be applied. Jeditor17 ( talk) 07:30, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
-- Pawyilee ( talk) 13:10, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
The article claims that "Under the guidance of Abhisit's administration, the BTS sky train, which is a rail-based mass transit system in Bangkok, launched a new 2.2-kilometre extension linking the Saphan Taksin Bridge." Abhisit has no authority over the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, which is in charge of the BTS. The BMA governor was elected, not appointed by Abhisit. Abhisit can't fire or replace the governor. And besides, the Taksin extension was NOT initiated under the Abhisit government. The plans have been place years before Abhisit. ParkKimLim ( talk) 02:30, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
This guy's given name is MARK! The Thai press often refers to him by its Thai transliteration, "มาร์ค" enclosed in quotation marks, and is consequently is his nickname for political purposes. Why has mention of this been removed from the article and the only reference to his given name buried in footnote 20? While his given name is spelled in roman letters M-A-R-K, the Thai transliteration becomes his political nickname, which should be given prominence in any article about any Southeast Asian political figure, Too, like I said before, if his Thai personal name is not preceded with some sort of honorific, it changes from a Proper noun to a common noun meaning "privilege," which has rather important consequences in Thailand's political atmosphere. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 16:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
.
Bkk john2 did a good job cleaning up the article, but the Maldives story was not bogus: Abhisit admits to Maldives trip amid Thailand flood crisis -- Pawyilee ( talk) 12:47, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
This is interesting. The references to both the award of the Palace Name to Dr. Long and its meaning in English proffered to a Bangkok Post reporter have been blocked. What to do about it goes above my pay grade.-- Pawyilee ( talk) 15:31, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
Before adding OR deleting images, please read Thailand's public-domain exemptions. -- Pawyilee ( talk) 13:40, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
The article contains nothing about Abhisit as leader of the opposition. Perhaps this article suggests a place to start.
PM was called a “stupid bitch” by the leader of the opposition
[F]emale Democrat Party MPs defended in parliament Mr. Abhisit’s ee-ngo remark that it was “not vulgar” and “not an insult” as the meaning of such an expression “depends on the context.”
Wiktionary link for Thai ee defines the term translated as "bitch" as a "derogatory prefix for certain terms pertaining to women or girls, or certain animals or farm machinery." Thai: โง่ (th) (ngôh) is included in the Wiktionary link for stupid under Translations show "lacking in intelligence".
I'm not suggesting the name-calling be included, but the “stupid bitch” article contains — and also links to — numerous salient issues related to leadership on both sides of the aisle, that do not necessarily call anyone “stupid.” — Pawyilee ( talk) 06:56, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
"born Mark Abhisit Vejjajiva." I want to see a source that "Mark" was ever part of his legal name. Othwerwise I'll delete it. Intelligent Mr Toad ( talk) 13:19, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
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--- pronunciation
The pronunciation voice seems to have a strong english accent. Maybe a Thai people can record it again. It's accurate but you can hear the english accent ...