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Hi Slatersteven, with regard to this: historical Arabic names are transliterated in a large variety of ways in the sources. However, one of the most widely used systems for romanization of Arabic is ALA-LC romanization, and for this reason our own system of transliteration as specified at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Arabic (WP:MOSAR) is closely based on ALA-LC. The way we normally go about this is that we use the transliteration scheme specified at WP:MOSAR except if a large majority of the relevant sources on the subject use a substantially different scheme (which sometimes happens in the case of late medieval or early modern Iranian or South Asian historical figures with names of Arabic origin). In this case we are talking about an early Arab figure, where use of WP:MOSAR is standard.
Now WP:MOSAR does not specify anything on how to transliterate عبد الله, but in the example here it does give "ʿAbd Allāh" (basic transcription Abd Allah), which is what you get when you simply apply the WP:MOSAR rules letter by letter. It is probably preferable to forms like "Abdallah" (which removes the space present in the Arabic) or "Abdullah" (which adds a nominative case ending "u", which is problematic because in some positions the name would need to change to "Abdillah" or "Abdallah" to remain grammatically correct; standard transliteration leaves out case endings for this reason). Long story short, "Abd Allah" really is better than "Abdullah" in all cases where "Abdullah" is not a modern wp:commonname (as established by the popular press or by the subject themselves writing their name this way in Latin letters) and we thus resort to transliteration (which we do for almost all historical names). Whether to transcribe ta' marbuta as "-a" or "-ah" ( Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyya or Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah) is left open by WP:MOSAR, but "-a" is actually used much more often both in RS and on WP (again because "-ah" is in fact ambiguous), so changing it to "-a", while perhaps subject to WP:STYLEVAR issues, is not a bad move. ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 13:06, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Abdullah ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on 7 April 2018. The result of the discussion was redirect. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi Slatersteven, with regard to this: historical Arabic names are transliterated in a large variety of ways in the sources. However, one of the most widely used systems for romanization of Arabic is ALA-LC romanization, and for this reason our own system of transliteration as specified at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Arabic (WP:MOSAR) is closely based on ALA-LC. The way we normally go about this is that we use the transliteration scheme specified at WP:MOSAR except if a large majority of the relevant sources on the subject use a substantially different scheme (which sometimes happens in the case of late medieval or early modern Iranian or South Asian historical figures with names of Arabic origin). In this case we are talking about an early Arab figure, where use of WP:MOSAR is standard.
Now WP:MOSAR does not specify anything on how to transliterate عبد الله, but in the example here it does give "ʿAbd Allāh" (basic transcription Abd Allah), which is what you get when you simply apply the WP:MOSAR rules letter by letter. It is probably preferable to forms like "Abdallah" (which removes the space present in the Arabic) or "Abdullah" (which adds a nominative case ending "u", which is problematic because in some positions the name would need to change to "Abdillah" or "Abdallah" to remain grammatically correct; standard transliteration leaves out case endings for this reason). Long story short, "Abd Allah" really is better than "Abdullah" in all cases where "Abdullah" is not a modern wp:commonname (as established by the popular press or by the subject themselves writing their name this way in Latin letters) and we thus resort to transliteration (which we do for almost all historical names). Whether to transcribe ta' marbuta as "-a" or "-ah" ( Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyya or Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyyah) is left open by WP:MOSAR, but "-a" is actually used much more often both in RS and on WP (again because "-ah" is in fact ambiguous), so changing it to "-a", while perhaps subject to WP:STYLEVAR issues, is not a bad move. ☿ Apaugasma ( talk ☉) 13:06, 9 July 2022 (UTC)