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Replaced transcluded image with inline image - {{ npov}} tag as per dispute on Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption. Geo Swan 04:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The DoD estimated the Guantanamo captive was born in 1981.
Meanwhile the United Nations listed Mullah Abdul Rauf as a senior Taliban official way back in 1999. The youthful Guantanamo captive, who claimed he was a simple conscript, would have been just 18 at that time. I don't think it is credible to believe these two individuals are the same person.
CNN quoted a Taliban official named Mullah Abdul Rauf in 2003 -- at large when Abdul Rauf Aliza was in custody. Geo Swan ( talk) 13:47, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Here is an excerpt from a Gitmo document about this figure:
"The name Mullah Abdul Rauf, detainee's reference name, was located on a list of factions and leaders within the Taliban as a corps commander in Herat, AF. (Analyst note: Several high-level Taliban JTF GTMO detainees also identified detainee as a Taliban troop commander…)
…
JTF GTMO has determined that the detainee is of medium intelligence value…Due to recent findings that detainee may have had a more important role within the Taliban [sic] that previously thought, detainee's intelligence value has been updated from low to medium due to his possible knowledge of:
(1) Taliban Leadership
(2) Taliban Command and Control"
— Jay W. Hood, Joint Task Force Guantanamo
It seems to support the assertion that he was a prominent Taliban commander by the time he was captured at around age 26 in 2007. This figure is also known as Mullah Abdul Rauf Khadim and named as such in this NYT article mentioning his death. Morrowulf ( talk) 18:34, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Let's summarize our research and/or discussion and/or opinions into a clearer format. I will list below the four articles that we currently have. All four have been identified in the press as the person killed on Feb. 9, 2015. Under each one, please specify if you think they are "same as" any of the other articles, so at least we can eliminate some of the contenders. Or list any biographical data that you think distinguish them. Don't list all your research; do that in the section above. Thanks. -- MelanieN ( talk) 18:55, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
As a general rule, the best course when there is doubt about whether a name represents more than one individual the best course is to keep it separate, and give whatever evidence there is is the article. I haven;t looked at the details here. DGG ( talk ) 21:26, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Former captive Shawali Khan has said that photos published after the reported death of Mullah Abdul Rauf were actually images of him. The NYTimes reported that the image was published by Afghan intelligence officials, who were actually distributing an image of a completely different former Guantanamo captive Shawali Khan, who was only released two months ago. Shawali Khan was very concerned the identity confusion puts his life at risk. The BBC also published the bogus image. Geo Swan ( talk) 04:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
The repatriation section falsely asserts ALA was sent to Guantanamo in 2007. Only half a dozen individuals were sent to Guantanamo in 2007 and 2008, all but one of them were captured by the CIA outside of Afghanistan. ALA was held in Guantanamo from 2002 until 2007-12-20, and for a further three years in the American wing of the infamous Pul-e-Charkhi prison in nominal Afghan custody. I fixed this. Geo Swan ( talk) 19:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it is widely reported that Abdul Rauf Aliza was a Taliban leader known as Mullah Abdul Rauf. It is not a credible assertion. Listing the widely reported non-credible assertions:
It is possible that ARA is one of the minority of Afghans who did join or rejoin the Taliban, after release. But, given that he was held until 2010, any leadership role he was rewarded with couldn't have taken place until 2010.
In this edit I removed the image of his older namesake; I removed "deceased" as his status in the infobox; I removed the military infobox that reported on his namesake's career;
In this edit I removed the unsubstantiated assertion that he was part of an elite force. I left the coverage of Cathy Gannon's 2010 reporting, because it is verifiable.
|
In this edit I tried to tackle incorrect coverage that stated ARA was sent to Guantanmo twice. Use of the wikileaked DAB has nothing to do with his repatriation.
In this edit I removed some particularly troubling material. The reference supplied was to a 2001 article from the student newspaper of the University of Buffalo. It spoke -- briefly -- about Maulvi Abdul Rauf: "On Sunday, a delegation of 10 men from the forces massed at Lagharay, Pakistan, six miles from the Afghan border in the Bajaur tribal area, traveled into neighboring Konar province to meet with Taliban Gov. Maulvi Abdul Rauf." It did not back up the claims that he set himself up as a leader, in Helmand, in 2007. In fact Rauf was still in custody until 2010.
The final two paragraphs I trimmed are reporting on the namesake. Geo Swan ( talk) 22:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I removed the translation of his name in Arabic as there is no reason stated as to why this Afghan's name should be translated into Arabic for an article on him in English Wikipedia. MicroPaLeo ( talk) 23:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Abdul Rauf Aliza article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Replaced transcluded image with inline image - {{ npov}} tag as per dispute on Template talk:Combatant Status Review Tribunal trailer image and caption. Geo Swan 04:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The DoD estimated the Guantanamo captive was born in 1981.
Meanwhile the United Nations listed Mullah Abdul Rauf as a senior Taliban official way back in 1999. The youthful Guantanamo captive, who claimed he was a simple conscript, would have been just 18 at that time. I don't think it is credible to believe these two individuals are the same person.
CNN quoted a Taliban official named Mullah Abdul Rauf in 2003 -- at large when Abdul Rauf Aliza was in custody. Geo Swan ( talk) 13:47, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Here is an excerpt from a Gitmo document about this figure:
"The name Mullah Abdul Rauf, detainee's reference name, was located on a list of factions and leaders within the Taliban as a corps commander in Herat, AF. (Analyst note: Several high-level Taliban JTF GTMO detainees also identified detainee as a Taliban troop commander…)
…
JTF GTMO has determined that the detainee is of medium intelligence value…Due to recent findings that detainee may have had a more important role within the Taliban [sic] that previously thought, detainee's intelligence value has been updated from low to medium due to his possible knowledge of:
(1) Taliban Leadership
(2) Taliban Command and Control"
— Jay W. Hood, Joint Task Force Guantanamo
It seems to support the assertion that he was a prominent Taliban commander by the time he was captured at around age 26 in 2007. This figure is also known as Mullah Abdul Rauf Khadim and named as such in this NYT article mentioning his death. Morrowulf ( talk) 18:34, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Let's summarize our research and/or discussion and/or opinions into a clearer format. I will list below the four articles that we currently have. All four have been identified in the press as the person killed on Feb. 9, 2015. Under each one, please specify if you think they are "same as" any of the other articles, so at least we can eliminate some of the contenders. Or list any biographical data that you think distinguish them. Don't list all your research; do that in the section above. Thanks. -- MelanieN ( talk) 18:55, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
As a general rule, the best course when there is doubt about whether a name represents more than one individual the best course is to keep it separate, and give whatever evidence there is is the article. I haven;t looked at the details here. DGG ( talk ) 21:26, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Former captive Shawali Khan has said that photos published after the reported death of Mullah Abdul Rauf were actually images of him. The NYTimes reported that the image was published by Afghan intelligence officials, who were actually distributing an image of a completely different former Guantanamo captive Shawali Khan, who was only released two months ago. Shawali Khan was very concerned the identity confusion puts his life at risk. The BBC also published the bogus image. Geo Swan ( talk) 04:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
The repatriation section falsely asserts ALA was sent to Guantanamo in 2007. Only half a dozen individuals were sent to Guantanamo in 2007 and 2008, all but one of them were captured by the CIA outside of Afghanistan. ALA was held in Guantanamo from 2002 until 2007-12-20, and for a further three years in the American wing of the infamous Pul-e-Charkhi prison in nominal Afghan custody. I fixed this. Geo Swan ( talk) 19:35, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it is widely reported that Abdul Rauf Aliza was a Taliban leader known as Mullah Abdul Rauf. It is not a credible assertion. Listing the widely reported non-credible assertions:
It is possible that ARA is one of the minority of Afghans who did join or rejoin the Taliban, after release. But, given that he was held until 2010, any leadership role he was rewarded with couldn't have taken place until 2010.
In this edit I removed the image of his older namesake; I removed "deceased" as his status in the infobox; I removed the military infobox that reported on his namesake's career;
In this edit I removed the unsubstantiated assertion that he was part of an elite force. I left the coverage of Cathy Gannon's 2010 reporting, because it is verifiable.
|
In this edit I tried to tackle incorrect coverage that stated ARA was sent to Guantanmo twice. Use of the wikileaked DAB has nothing to do with his repatriation.
In this edit I removed some particularly troubling material. The reference supplied was to a 2001 article from the student newspaper of the University of Buffalo. It spoke -- briefly -- about Maulvi Abdul Rauf: "On Sunday, a delegation of 10 men from the forces massed at Lagharay, Pakistan, six miles from the Afghan border in the Bajaur tribal area, traveled into neighboring Konar province to meet with Taliban Gov. Maulvi Abdul Rauf." It did not back up the claims that he set himself up as a leader, in Helmand, in 2007. In fact Rauf was still in custody until 2010.
The final two paragraphs I trimmed are reporting on the namesake. Geo Swan ( talk) 22:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I removed the translation of his name in Arabic as there is no reason stated as to why this Afghan's name should be translated into Arabic for an article on him in English Wikipedia. MicroPaLeo ( talk) 23:13, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Abdul Rauf Aliza. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:16, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on Abdul Rauf Aliza. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:04, 7 November 2017 (UTC)