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Well, I noticed that the refs need to be fixed in Abbas Kiarostami. Try using the {{ cite web}} template for this, and use Hrant Dink or Ani as an example. The references look nice in the Turkey article as well. As I'm pretty busy right now, I don't have time to read the whole article, but I suppose you could always ask other users for help. At a brief glance, the articles look pretty good, especially the one about Kiarostami. Regards, Khoi khoi 06:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Dear friend, Firstly I should thank you about your superb contributions. Unfortunately I'm in Wikibreak and there is no time to check your article. Anyway I'll try to check it, in a glancing look it appears good, but you didn't observe some norms such as "Notes and references" and other little trivia. But average is good and certainly it will be one of a "good articles". -- MehranVB talk | cont 08:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
With regard to the article, sentences like "During the 1980s and the 1990s, his films introduced a humane and artistic face" and phrases like "a charming, neo-realist gem" are among those that worry me.
Sangak 18:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
It is often impossible to rewrite the gushing PoV language in a non-neutral way, as it has no real content apart from praise; the only option is to remove it. I've also had to delete two passages that turned out to be straightforward copyvios. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 12:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Try checking the article now. ALL of those gushing comments have been reomved except several sourced quotes Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I asked several members of film wiki project and scriptwriting project to help in bringing the article to GA status. Sangak 20:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
In light of the frantic editing which has introduced many errors of English and presentation as well as much PoV material, and given my inability to get either of the two editors to slow down or review their approach, I've placed this at RfC in the hope that more eyes will help. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 17:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Please don't remove the wikify and MPoV templates; the problems are still there (worse than before, in my view), and need to be corrected. If and when the franic editing dies down, I'll try to clean it up myself, but there's no point now. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 19:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
There are too many templates at the top now. It is not as bad as is being portrayed here but in some sections the tone needs rewriting to becone more encyclopedic. The bulk of the article does not have POV issues any more these have been corrected -the neutrality tag should be moved to the reception section keeping the other two at the top Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Do you guys think this article has reached the standards of a featured article? -- Mardavich 17:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC) No cetainly way off even a GA yet!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
In the Poetry and imagery section:
Khayyam was a classical, not ancient, Persian poet. Ancient is pre-Islamic.
It may not matter much to many readers, but anyone who can read Persian will notice that the (subversive!) poem in the image is not the same as the one translated in the text. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I've checked again at WP:MOS-AR#Persian, & it does seem you're supposed to give the strict transliteration in the opening sentence, where the name is given in bold. "Strict" apparently means pretending the word is in Arabic: so it should be Kiyārustamī in that sentence, even though we all know it's pronounced with an o, not a u. After that, the standard or primary version Kiyarostami can of course be used.
But it's up to you: most Persian articles seem to ignore the MOS rules! OTOH, consider why you've written `Abbās with an `eyn, even though the `eyn isn't pronounced in Persian. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
This is an AWESOME article, folks. I did some minor copyediting (mostly making the language all American English instead of a mixture of American and British). A few points I noticed:
I'll try to finish commenting and editing later. Got to go now. Cbdorsett 04:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Click here. Perhaps we could incorporate some of that info into the article? -- Mardavich 15:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I changed
Overall, a very comprehensive article which I enjoyed reading. I will make the following recommendations:
I'll watch the page and make new comments as and when I can think of them. - Francis Tyers · 09:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I will continue copyediting while looking forward to more comments and suggestions. Sangak 20:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
First off, I'd like to note that, overall, I find the article deserving of GA status. However, it contains quite a few minor problems, which I'll discuss below. Some of these problems are unfortunately serious enough for me to place it on hold.
More minor problems:
It may not seem so from my comments, but this is an excellent article—so much so, it can get better :) Once these issues have been addressed, I'll have another look. Best wishes, Fvasconcellos 00:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I tried to trim the section on the cinematic style article. The original section was moved to a separate article. The size of the current article is 54 kb. This is quite OK in the acceptable range in FA assessment. Sangak 19:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Abbas caused controversy in his native Iran at the Cannes Film Festival in France in 2005, when in accepting his award he exchanged kisses with French movie star Catherine Deneuve. The ordeal sparked a significant upset back at home, where such an action between an unmarried man and woman verges on a punishable crime. As a result Kiarostami chose to stay out of the country for several few months until the controversy settled down. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ernst Stavro Blofeld ( talk • contribs) 14:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
First of all, congratulations on the promotion of this article: thoroughly deserved.
I hope you will, however, consider my remarks about excessive wiki links. Please see WP:CONTEXT. Looking at the pattern of linking in this article, I wonder whether the editors have really understood what the purpose of a link is meant to be: I almost get the impression that the links are used as a sort of highlighting device. But that's not what links are for. A good example is provided by the links to child and protagonist in "child protagonists"—obviously an important theme in AK's films. If there were an article on child protagonist, that would be a useful link; but a link telling us that a child is
isn't really very helpful: Wikipedia is not Wiktionary.
For some reason (perhaps the editing was by a different person) the greatest density of irrelevant links is in the lead and the Personal life section. I've mentioned some of the worst examples in my archived FAC Comment. In Personal life I noticed competition, painting, drawing and crayon. Later in the article there are links to prostitute, bride and sound. Any reader clicking on sound will learn that:
Fascinating stuff if you want to learn about physics; but not really relevant in the context of Kiarostami's film-making!
I'm not saying all this to be negative: I genuinely think the article would benefit from the removal of these links. It's a case of "less is more"—but don't just take my word for it: re-read that page on WP:CONTEXT. It may help you to become even better WP editors than you already clearly are. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 16:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Much, much better now. I'm still not sure why poet, photographer and painter are all linked, though: these are commonly understood words, so nothing is gained by linking to them. I can just about see the justification for linking to graphic designer, which is perhaps less well-known. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
You'll find the FitzGerald translation I suggested in this Guardian article. It really is quite well known in English, so I think it would be preferable to the uninspiring version currently in the article.
You can find the original (Guyand kasān behesht bā hur xoshast) & translation at http://www.okonlife.com/poems/page1.htm. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The list of "secondary literature" includes "Slavoj Žižek, Lacan: The Silent Partners (Wo Es War)." I'm not familiar with this book, but I am very vaguely familiar with Žižek. He can be amusing in small doses but I've never seen him say anything coherent and substantial about anything. This may of course be my failing (as might my utter inability to take Freud or Lacan seriously). Anyway, neither Žižek nor the book appears to be mentioned anywhere else in the article. What's it doing in this list? As it is, its mention looks uncomfortably like an undergrad's attempt to impress his or her teacher.
(Perhaps other items in the list of "secondary literature" are also unmentioned; I didn't check.) -- Hoary 02:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that so many honors and awards (nearly 70) need not be listed.....i feel only the prominent 10-15 should suffice. Any thoughts??? Gprince007 06:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_links#Linking_to_YouTube.2C_Google_Video.2C_and_similar_sites Nothing here states that the "Persian Carpet" Youtube link cannot be on the page. I agree with User:BehnamFarid. Icarus of old ( talk) 13:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Everyone who is supporting the use of the link is missing the point. We don't care what YouTube does about the link, for we are not YouTube. But the copyright policy on links makes it pretty blindingly clear that linking to copyright violations is prohibited. As for the video itself, the opening sequence identifies the production company as the Farabi Cinema Foundation, not some random guy with a YouTube account. Once it's pretty clear the uploader doesn't own the copyright, asking for proof the uploader didn't have permission is simply rediculous, as it's not actually possible. Indeed, the Wikimedia Foundation's system for determining whether previously copyrighted material hosted on Wikipedia was published with permission requires the exact opposite. The idea that a foundation-established policy can be sidestepped by linking to the violation is also rediculous, especially given the basis for our copyright policy (US law), which makes such linking a copyright violation unto itself. Someguy1221 ( talk) 02:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article mention Crimson Gold? Khoi khoi 03:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
"My favourite film-maker of the decade is Abbas Kiarostami. He achieves a simplicity that’s so difficult to attain." [1]
Any opinion on including this quote in the article? Sangak Talk 00:05, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the Spirituality section is copy and pasted from source 47. I am assuming this is not allowed? I am not sure it is even worth attempting to salvage that source as it doesn't make much sense anyway: "Kiarostami's films often reflect upon immaterial concepts such as soul and afterlife. At times, however, the very concept of the spiritual seems to be contradicted by the medium itself, given that it has no inherent means to confer the metaphysical." What medium does have an inherent means to confer the metaphysical?? I am not sure what his point is.
I add some new picture in Commons] and try to find another free license picture. please use that in this featured article. Darafsh Kaviyani ( Talk) 05:39, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Cinematic style of Abbas Kiarostami, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Andy Dingley ( talk) 23:17, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Hey... where is the filmo apart? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1388:1445:280D:7509:15B1:6986:2BB1 ( talk) 01:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
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Hello, dear fellows! I think we must change Kiarostami's image, by replacing it so that everyone can have a healthy face and comfortable imagery about the director, not his sick and his image of his last moments, which he was so ill and his face wasn't normal , so sick. the lead image shouldn't be like that. At least, we must consider effect of this kind of picture. thank you by the way. The Stray Dog Talk Page 21:42, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
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Hello. This article does IMHO not meet the current featured article criteria. A quick overview:
I hope that any interested editor might help in fixing these issues, so that it may retain its FA status. Best, Gertanis ( talk) 19:27, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Moneytrees🏝️ Talk🌴 Help out at CCI! 02:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Well, I noticed that the refs need to be fixed in Abbas Kiarostami. Try using the {{ cite web}} template for this, and use Hrant Dink or Ani as an example. The references look nice in the Turkey article as well. As I'm pretty busy right now, I don't have time to read the whole article, but I suppose you could always ask other users for help. At a brief glance, the articles look pretty good, especially the one about Kiarostami. Regards, Khoi khoi 06:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Dear friend, Firstly I should thank you about your superb contributions. Unfortunately I'm in Wikibreak and there is no time to check your article. Anyway I'll try to check it, in a glancing look it appears good, but you didn't observe some norms such as "Notes and references" and other little trivia. But average is good and certainly it will be one of a "good articles". -- MehranVB talk | cont 08:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
With regard to the article, sentences like "During the 1980s and the 1990s, his films introduced a humane and artistic face" and phrases like "a charming, neo-realist gem" are among those that worry me.
Sangak 18:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
It is often impossible to rewrite the gushing PoV language in a non-neutral way, as it has no real content apart from praise; the only option is to remove it. I've also had to delete two passages that turned out to be straightforward copyvios. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 12:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Try checking the article now. ALL of those gushing comments have been reomved except several sourced quotes Ernst Stavro Blofeld 20:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I asked several members of film wiki project and scriptwriting project to help in bringing the article to GA status. Sangak 20:25, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
In light of the frantic editing which has introduced many errors of English and presentation as well as much PoV material, and given my inability to get either of the two editors to slow down or review their approach, I've placed this at RfC in the hope that more eyes will help. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 17:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Please don't remove the wikify and MPoV templates; the problems are still there (worse than before, in my view), and need to be corrected. If and when the franic editing dies down, I'll try to clean it up myself, but there's no point now. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 19:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
There are too many templates at the top now. It is not as bad as is being portrayed here but in some sections the tone needs rewriting to becone more encyclopedic. The bulk of the article does not have POV issues any more these have been corrected -the neutrality tag should be moved to the reception section keeping the other two at the top Ernst Stavro Blofeld 16:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Do you guys think this article has reached the standards of a featured article? -- Mardavich 17:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC) No cetainly way off even a GA yet!! Ernst Stavro Blofeld 14:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
In the Poetry and imagery section:
Khayyam was a classical, not ancient, Persian poet. Ancient is pre-Islamic.
It may not matter much to many readers, but anyone who can read Persian will notice that the (subversive!) poem in the image is not the same as the one translated in the text. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I've checked again at WP:MOS-AR#Persian, & it does seem you're supposed to give the strict transliteration in the opening sentence, where the name is given in bold. "Strict" apparently means pretending the word is in Arabic: so it should be Kiyārustamī in that sentence, even though we all know it's pronounced with an o, not a u. After that, the standard or primary version Kiyarostami can of course be used.
But it's up to you: most Persian articles seem to ignore the MOS rules! OTOH, consider why you've written `Abbās with an `eyn, even though the `eyn isn't pronounced in Persian. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
This is an AWESOME article, folks. I did some minor copyediting (mostly making the language all American English instead of a mixture of American and British). A few points I noticed:
I'll try to finish commenting and editing later. Got to go now. Cbdorsett 04:34, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Click here. Perhaps we could incorporate some of that info into the article? -- Mardavich 15:54, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I changed
Overall, a very comprehensive article which I enjoyed reading. I will make the following recommendations:
I'll watch the page and make new comments as and when I can think of them. - Francis Tyers · 09:09, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I will continue copyediting while looking forward to more comments and suggestions. Sangak 20:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
First off, I'd like to note that, overall, I find the article deserving of GA status. However, it contains quite a few minor problems, which I'll discuss below. Some of these problems are unfortunately serious enough for me to place it on hold.
More minor problems:
It may not seem so from my comments, but this is an excellent article—so much so, it can get better :) Once these issues have been addressed, I'll have another look. Best wishes, Fvasconcellos 00:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I tried to trim the section on the cinematic style article. The original section was moved to a separate article. The size of the current article is 54 kb. This is quite OK in the acceptable range in FA assessment. Sangak 19:35, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Abbas caused controversy in his native Iran at the Cannes Film Festival in France in 2005, when in accepting his award he exchanged kisses with French movie star Catherine Deneuve. The ordeal sparked a significant upset back at home, where such an action between an unmarried man and woman verges on a punishable crime. As a result Kiarostami chose to stay out of the country for several few months until the controversy settled down. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ernst Stavro Blofeld ( talk • contribs) 14:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC).
First of all, congratulations on the promotion of this article: thoroughly deserved.
I hope you will, however, consider my remarks about excessive wiki links. Please see WP:CONTEXT. Looking at the pattern of linking in this article, I wonder whether the editors have really understood what the purpose of a link is meant to be: I almost get the impression that the links are used as a sort of highlighting device. But that's not what links are for. A good example is provided by the links to child and protagonist in "child protagonists"—obviously an important theme in AK's films. If there were an article on child protagonist, that would be a useful link; but a link telling us that a child is
isn't really very helpful: Wikipedia is not Wiktionary.
For some reason (perhaps the editing was by a different person) the greatest density of irrelevant links is in the lead and the Personal life section. I've mentioned some of the worst examples in my archived FAC Comment. In Personal life I noticed competition, painting, drawing and crayon. Later in the article there are links to prostitute, bride and sound. Any reader clicking on sound will learn that:
Fascinating stuff if you want to learn about physics; but not really relevant in the context of Kiarostami's film-making!
I'm not saying all this to be negative: I genuinely think the article would benefit from the removal of these links. It's a case of "less is more"—but don't just take my word for it: re-read that page on WP:CONTEXT. It may help you to become even better WP editors than you already clearly are. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 16:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Much, much better now. I'm still not sure why poet, photographer and painter are all linked, though: these are commonly understood words, so nothing is gained by linking to them. I can just about see the justification for linking to graphic designer, which is perhaps less well-known. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
You'll find the FitzGerald translation I suggested in this Guardian article. It really is quite well known in English, so I think it would be preferable to the uninspiring version currently in the article.
You can find the original (Guyand kasān behesht bā hur xoshast) & translation at http://www.okonlife.com/poems/page1.htm. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The list of "secondary literature" includes "Slavoj Žižek, Lacan: The Silent Partners (Wo Es War)." I'm not familiar with this book, but I am very vaguely familiar with Žižek. He can be amusing in small doses but I've never seen him say anything coherent and substantial about anything. This may of course be my failing (as might my utter inability to take Freud or Lacan seriously). Anyway, neither Žižek nor the book appears to be mentioned anywhere else in the article. What's it doing in this list? As it is, its mention looks uncomfortably like an undergrad's attempt to impress his or her teacher.
(Perhaps other items in the list of "secondary literature" are also unmentioned; I didn't check.) -- Hoary 02:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that so many honors and awards (nearly 70) need not be listed.....i feel only the prominent 10-15 should suffice. Any thoughts??? Gprince007 06:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_links#Linking_to_YouTube.2C_Google_Video.2C_and_similar_sites Nothing here states that the "Persian Carpet" Youtube link cannot be on the page. I agree with User:BehnamFarid. Icarus of old ( talk) 13:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Everyone who is supporting the use of the link is missing the point. We don't care what YouTube does about the link, for we are not YouTube. But the copyright policy on links makes it pretty blindingly clear that linking to copyright violations is prohibited. As for the video itself, the opening sequence identifies the production company as the Farabi Cinema Foundation, not some random guy with a YouTube account. Once it's pretty clear the uploader doesn't own the copyright, asking for proof the uploader didn't have permission is simply rediculous, as it's not actually possible. Indeed, the Wikimedia Foundation's system for determining whether previously copyrighted material hosted on Wikipedia was published with permission requires the exact opposite. The idea that a foundation-established policy can be sidestepped by linking to the violation is also rediculous, especially given the basis for our copyright policy (US law), which makes such linking a copyright violation unto itself. Someguy1221 ( talk) 02:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article mention Crimson Gold? Khoi khoi 03:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
"My favourite film-maker of the decade is Abbas Kiarostami. He achieves a simplicity that’s so difficult to attain." [1]
Any opinion on including this quote in the article? Sangak Talk 00:05, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
The first paragraph of the Spirituality section is copy and pasted from source 47. I am assuming this is not allowed? I am not sure it is even worth attempting to salvage that source as it doesn't make much sense anyway: "Kiarostami's films often reflect upon immaterial concepts such as soul and afterlife. At times, however, the very concept of the spiritual seems to be contradicted by the medium itself, given that it has no inherent means to confer the metaphysical." What medium does have an inherent means to confer the metaphysical?? I am not sure what his point is.
I add some new picture in Commons] and try to find another free license picture. please use that in this featured article. Darafsh Kaviyani ( Talk) 05:39, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Cinematic style of Abbas Kiarostami, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Andy Dingley ( talk) 23:17, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Hey... where is the filmo apart? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1388:1445:280D:7509:15B1:6986:2BB1 ( talk) 01:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:42, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:18, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello, dear fellows! I think we must change Kiarostami's image, by replacing it so that everyone can have a healthy face and comfortable imagery about the director, not his sick and his image of his last moments, which he was so ill and his face wasn't normal , so sick. the lead image shouldn't be like that. At least, we must consider effect of this kind of picture. thank you by the way. The Stray Dog Talk Page 21:42, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:48, 19 May 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:18, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello. This article does IMHO not meet the current featured article criteria. A quick overview:
I hope that any interested editor might help in fixing these issues, so that it may retain its FA status. Best, Gertanis ( talk) 19:27, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Moneytrees🏝️ Talk🌴 Help out at CCI! 02:44, 11 January 2021 (UTC)