![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Shouldn't be the title of the article Abaúj instead of Abov? I know I'm opening a can of worms here, as it's hard to reach a consensus about historical Hungarian/Slovakian/Romanian/etc. names… here are my arguments:
The problem is not that you want to move the article, the problem are your "arguments". You cannot argue like this. It is completely irrelevant from what language the name originally (1000 years ago !) arose - using your logics, Esztergom should be under the Slovak name then. And it is also completely irrelevant that it also forms part of the name Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén - so what???, do you think Abov does not form part of various names in Slovakia too?. Secondly, the Latin names cited here are usually new forms from the 18th and 19th century artificially derived from Magyar names. Thirdly, Abov is not an administrative unit (neither in SK nor in H), but it is an official tourism region, for example, in SK. The only "valid" (although somehow ridiculous) point is that indeed slightly more %s seem to be in H than in SK, so if you find that a sufficient argument, move the article. We have no rules for such cases and, frankly, I have just resigned on this months ago. And, please, try to think in a more complex way (like Spock, if it helps you :)) ) Juro 03:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
P.S:The name is derived from the name of King Aba Samuel (1041-1044). Abov literally means !Abai" in Hungarian in this case (Aba's Castle)....And note that what is not "recognizable" to you because you do not know the language, is well "recognizable" to those who know the language (this is trivial, but it seems that nobody has told you this yet). Juro 03:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Diacritics cannot be an argument against a name. According to your logic the city of Košice should call Kassa, because that name didn't contain diacritics :) Zello 16:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I think this article is certainly about the historical administrative unit. We should create two different articles under the names Abov and Abaúj (region) about the present-day regions (with disambiguation pages and redirects). Zello 17:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I re-arranged the three articles as Abaúj, Abov and Abaúj (region) (only a stub now). We should work to improve them. Zello 18:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I think some of the information in the article is really about Abaúj-Torna, for instance some (or all?) of the census data. The 1910 data are definitely for Abaúj-Torna, 1941 most probably as well. I moved them to Abaúj-Torna.
I'm not sure about the districts listed here. It can't be early 20th century Abaúj, because it didn't exist then, and they're not the districts of 1882-1918 Abaúj-Torna. Since they're all in the southern half, they could be the districts of interbellum Hungarian Abaúj-Torna. Alensha, since you added most of these data, could you check this? Markussep 17:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Shouldn't be the title of the article Abaúj instead of Abov? I know I'm opening a can of worms here, as it's hard to reach a consensus about historical Hungarian/Slovakian/Romanian/etc. names… here are my arguments:
The problem is not that you want to move the article, the problem are your "arguments". You cannot argue like this. It is completely irrelevant from what language the name originally (1000 years ago !) arose - using your logics, Esztergom should be under the Slovak name then. And it is also completely irrelevant that it also forms part of the name Borsod-Abaúj-Zemplén - so what???, do you think Abov does not form part of various names in Slovakia too?. Secondly, the Latin names cited here are usually new forms from the 18th and 19th century artificially derived from Magyar names. Thirdly, Abov is not an administrative unit (neither in SK nor in H), but it is an official tourism region, for example, in SK. The only "valid" (although somehow ridiculous) point is that indeed slightly more %s seem to be in H than in SK, so if you find that a sufficient argument, move the article. We have no rules for such cases and, frankly, I have just resigned on this months ago. And, please, try to think in a more complex way (like Spock, if it helps you :)) ) Juro 03:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
P.S:The name is derived from the name of King Aba Samuel (1041-1044). Abov literally means !Abai" in Hungarian in this case (Aba's Castle)....And note that what is not "recognizable" to you because you do not know the language, is well "recognizable" to those who know the language (this is trivial, but it seems that nobody has told you this yet). Juro 03:37, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Diacritics cannot be an argument against a name. According to your logic the city of Košice should call Kassa, because that name didn't contain diacritics :) Zello 16:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I think this article is certainly about the historical administrative unit. We should create two different articles under the names Abov and Abaúj (region) about the present-day regions (with disambiguation pages and redirects). Zello 17:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I re-arranged the three articles as Abaúj, Abov and Abaúj (region) (only a stub now). We should work to improve them. Zello 18:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I think some of the information in the article is really about Abaúj-Torna, for instance some (or all?) of the census data. The 1910 data are definitely for Abaúj-Torna, 1941 most probably as well. I moved them to Abaúj-Torna.
I'm not sure about the districts listed here. It can't be early 20th century Abaúj, because it didn't exist then, and they're not the districts of 1882-1918 Abaúj-Torna. Since they're all in the southern half, they could be the districts of interbellum Hungarian Abaúj-Torna. Alensha, since you added most of these data, could you check this? Markussep 17:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)