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I am no expert on this area of ethics, but it seems clear to me that the current section marked simply "The Violinist" should actually only refer to cases of involuntary conception, i.e., rape. Voluntary conception is covered later, in the section labeled "Pregnancy resulting from voluntary intercourse", but this section is simply labeled "The Violinist", and nothing outside of the thought experiment, including the introductory paragraph, makes it clear that this particular argument is for the particular case of an involuntary pregnancy. This is a glaring oversight, if not deliberate misrepresentation, and should be addressed. Section headings are important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.92.191.173 ( talk) 09:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
the duty to sustain the violinist objection[19]: despite the common intuition, one does have an obligation to support the violinist, and likewise the fetus.
Huh? It's just this sentence, and it doesn't explain how the person has an 'obligation' to. I don't think one does personally, and just saying 'one does' is not good enough for an encyclopedia LuGiADude ( talk) 09:35, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
This section is in need of citations. Much of what is said has absolutely no sources. For example, who makes these objections? There are statements asserted as fact such as the obligation comment before mine - is it a fact that you have an obligation to the violinist? Is it a fact that it is immoral to separate conjoined twins, is it a fact that our intuitions on unrealistic examples are irrelevant? If so, citation needed.
Many of these objections, though decent objections, appear to be original research, and not criticism presented by other philosophers. I do not know how to put up the little box stating that the entire section is OR and needs citations or else I'd do it myself :( 63.139.220.200 ( talk) 22:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I've never edited a WikiPedia page before, and I'm not going to invest the time right now to learn how to do it. However, I am currently working with this material and wish to add a citation for the Responsibility Objection. I don't think there's a clear origin of the objection since it was taken up by many people in response to Thomson's 'A Defense of Abortion'. Nonetheless, the Responsibility Objection" was coined by Harry S. Silverstein in 'On A Woman's "Responsibility" for the Fetus', published in Social Theory and Practice (1987:Spring), 13(1), p.103-119. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.102.77 ( talk) 00:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
The criticism section only includes counter-arguments to one of the arguments. 75.118.170.35 ( talk) 17:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
there was a pencil in the city of america —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.241.234 ( talk) 13:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Stating that Tacit consent cannot be inferred where contraception was used is similar to saying that Intoxication Manslaughter shouldn't be a crime because "I didn't think that I was THAT drunk." Use of contraception minimizes risk, but never completely removes it. Just as a person who "only had a few beers" may think that they are sober enough to drive, but in reality is still risking undesirable results. (Vehicular Homocide) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiterussian1974 ( talk • contribs) 09:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
what if a woman wants to have a baby, maybe in the future? hysterectomy wont be a solution —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.239.154.82 ( talk) 04:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Besides Tom Morris' point that you have not provided a published version of this objection, Thompson actually addresses the claim of tacit consent in the argument. In the floating "person seeds" portion of the paper she substitutes the use of birth control with the use of protective screens that one would place on a window. When one opens a window with a screen protector on (analogous to protected sexual intercourse) one incurs a ~1-5% probability that a person seed will float through the protector (birth control failure) and implant in the house. Thompson argues in the article that it is permissible under these circumstances to remove the "person seed" because it has invaded one's property, even though the owner knew that there was a slight chance that an implantation would result when the owner opened the window. I haven't found an objection to this portion of the argument, but my knowledge on the subject is far from exhaustive and I'd love to read one! A Laughton ( talk) 15:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
The structure of the Criticism section and the following table needs to be redone. The article at one point mentions that a table of common objections is found below, and this sentence is immediately followed by a list of LESS common objections. I think that the table ought to follow immediately after the statement about the common objections--either remove the statement, put it at the end, or, the best way in my opinion, simply append the less common objections to the end of the currently existing table and take them out of the criticism section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.195.165 ( talk) 02:00, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
The section seems quite one-sided, heavily biased in favour of Thomson and her defenders. It basically consists of a broad argument against Thomson's analogy, followed by several objections to the criticism (without including arguments that Thomson's critics have responded with). Furthermore, many of these objections seem to constitute original research as they are not cited but should be. Some are highly tendentious as well. For example:
Wikipedia articles, including this one, are not supposed to be a platform for defenders of legal abortion to publish their ideas. I think this section ought to be changed significantly (at very least removing uncited material), or simply removed. One criticism section is sufficient in my opinion. 174.2.68.142 ( talk) 18:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
I found the table to be informative, and full of useful references. In my opinion, removing it would harm the article. Jander80 ( talk) 04:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
This section is full of OR. In addition to the three examples cited, there are these:
Oddly, the first and second of these both include criticisms of themselves:
This is all blatantly OR. Frankly I'm surprised to find it on wikipedia. OckRaz talk 12:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
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In the Criticism section, after the 2nd paragraph -- that is, after ". . . letting die objection)." -- add:
It has been argued that a more serious defect in the thought experiment lies in the fundamental implication that the unfairness we intuitively feel is ascribable only to the use of another person's body. In reality, that intuition is ascribable more to the degree of the kidnapped person's sacrifice than to the exact nature of it. Thus if it can be shown that in situations other than pregnancy, society expects equal or greater sacrifices for the sake of an person whose life is in danger, particularly if that person's helplessness is due to its young age, there will be no unfairness in expecting a woman to endure her pregnancy --
"The real consideration is the degree of the sacrifice. Compare a healthy and affluent woman who has a trouble-free pregnancy and as smooth as possible a delivery, and thereafter gives for adoption or employs a nanny, to a handicapped man living at bare subsistence level who is the only support and care-giver of a sick daughter for years and years. . . . Here a person who is not pregnant and is moreover male is morally and legally obliged to make a greater sacrifice on behalf of a child than is a pregnant woman." ( http://www.NoTerminationWithoutRepresentation.org, "Personhood," Appendix 3)
Acyutananda ( talk) 18:58, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. I'm little familiar with Wikipedia editing. For my future understanding, aside from your decision this time: 1) I've now checked /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:RS. It mentions "peer-reviewed publications" in a way that makes clear that that is not a necessary criterion. Is that page outdated? It says "Deciding which sources are appropriate depends on context." 2) "by you": will an edit request invariably be evaluated entirely or partly according to who makes the request, or may it sometimes be evaluated on merit alone? 3) "you are taking a stand": I suppose you mean that the Wikipedia itself should not take a stand. But in the Criticism section, each of the "critics" and "defenders" does take a stand. My edit request, describing the argument of a critic, begins "It is argued . . ." Doesn't this make it clear that what follows means "In reality (according to the argument).... Thus (according to the argument) if it can be shown that ..." -- ? Acyutananda ( talk) 04:45, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. If there's still a chance, let me suggest this revised version:
It has been argued that a more serious defect in the thought experiment lies in its fundamental implication that the unfairness we intuitively feel is ascribable only to the use of another person's body. In reality, according to the argument, that intuition is ascribable more to the degree of the kidnapped person's sacrifice than to the exact nature of it; thus if it can be shown that in situations other than pregnancy, society expects equal or greater sacrifices for the sake of a helpless person whose life is in danger, particularly if that person's helplessness is due to its young age, there will be no unfairness in expecting a woman to endure her pregnancy:
"The real consideration is the degree of the sacrifice. Compare a healthy and affluent woman who has a trouble-free pregnancy and as smooth as possible a delivery, and thereafter gives for adoption or employs a nanny, to a handicapped man living at bare subsistence level who is the only support and care-giver of a sick daughter for years and years. . . . Here a person who is not pregnant and is moreover male is morally and legally obliged to make a greater sacrifice on behalf of a child than is a pregnant woman on behalf of her unborn child." ( http://www.NoTerminationWithoutRepresentation.org, "Personhood," Appendix 3) Acyutananda ( talk) 14:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks again. I don't see how there can be an issue of reliability when there's no reporting of facts going on, rather just philosophical argument. Is there such a thing as authority in philosophy, or just the faint possibility of insightfulness, acuity, etc. In philosophy there is indeed such a thing as prestige/respectability . . . again, I'm not familiar with all the Wikipedia's standards, or the reasons for them. Creating a website and expounding a view certainly doesn't mean that it's right for Wikipedia to give it air time (I do understand), but neither is the Wikipedia helpless to discriminate among views without applying prestige/respectability alone. Anyway, I'm happy with your solution. Acyutananda ( talk) 16:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. "How else should we protect ourselves from fringe theories . . .?" Editors of the Encyclopedia Britannica used sometimes themselves to be learned persons in the field concerned. As I remember, some EB articles were by-lined with such a person's name. Such a person would sometimes be capable of recognizing any merit in a previously-unrecognized source. 115.250.219.201 ( talk) 08:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
"I'm noticing that this has been mostly a discussion about how Wikipedia decides what to include and what not." For me that has been worth discussing in its own right. Sorry if I did not make clear that that was my main purpose in asking questions. The Wikipedia has a lot of impact on the world. Thank you for sparing some time. "I think you can't hope for much mileage . . ." No mileage in terms of my edit. Just mileage in terms of my understanding the Wikipedia. (I can't know whether or not there was anything useful in the discussion for the Wikipedia.) 115.253.196.203 ( talk) 11:51, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the good communications. 59.93.246.121 ( talk) 01:59, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Both Thomson's article and Boonin's book are titled 'A Defense of Abortion,' so I can understand how there could be some confusion. In the Table of criticisms and responses, each criticism is accompanied by Thomson's view AND Boonin's AND uncited OR. The OR is addressed above. I can't see why anyone would put Boonin's views about the criticisms here unless it was just an error based on the title. Mind you, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be included in wikipedia. They just don't belong here. They probably should be in this article: /info/en/?search=Philosophical_aspects_of_the_abortion_debate#The_bodily_rights_argument OckRaz talk 12:40, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
OK, I hope I did this right. I have taken the footnotes to sources for the common objections (the "tacit consent objection", the "responsibility objection", the "stranger-vs-offspring objection" and the "killing vs letting-die objection"), which were previously only posted in the "table of criticisms and responses" section, and placed them in the body of the text (the "criticism" section) which mentions them before the table. I also kept the footnotes in the table using the reference name function. As I say, I hope I did it right; the footnote numbers seem to correspond. Goblinshark17 ( talk) 07:22, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with including the principle objections briefly at the end, but there was a table and additional paragraphs of objections - which are still by no means a complete catalog of the objections that have been raised. Plus, for every objection, there was one or more response, the lion's share of which came from a book with the same title but a different author (Boonin) defending Thomson's article. There's really no reason to stop there. There are responses to those responses. There are books which take aim at Boonin, and on, and on. An encyclopedia entry about Thomson's article should give a basic overview of what is said in the article and should probably include mention of one or two of the most significant objections just so that a novice reader won't get the mistaken impression that the article in question put an end to the debate.
Thomson opened a new front in the ethical conflict (beyond just, a. the right not to be killed is more substantial than controlling one's body, and b. there either is or isn't a prenatal right to life) by avoiding the usual area of conflict (the 'b' from above) calling into question something that had more or less been taken for granted (the 'a' from above) in academic journals, but she did that over 40 years ago. Three generations of scholars have argued over it since. Trying to capture all that in an entry about the original article makes no more sense than trying to capture all the debate Peter Singer has sparked in last 40 years and placing it in the article on his book 'Animal Liberation.'
As I said before, that material is fine for the article about the philosophical debate over abortion (particularly the bodily rights section - here) but inasmuch as it's gone well beyond the scope of this wikipedia article, I've removed it from this page. If I have time, maybe I'll reformat it and put it there myself. OckRaz talk 21:29, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm curious of what to do with the lede statement Thomson's imaginative examples and controversial conclusions have made "A Defense of Abortion" perhaps "the most widely reprinted essay in all of contemporary philosophy".
when it comes to:
For the first question, it was written by William Parent in the editor's introduction of Judith Thomson's Rights, Restitution, and Risk, but attribution might – possibly unjustifiably – imply that Parent is not qualified to describe ADoA like that (and vice-versa for the lack of attribution).
For the second, I can't find anything in the body about Parent's description of ADoA, which might raise the question of WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, but I'm also not sure to what extent is WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY used for removal of lede statements.
For the third, I'm not sure whether the lede statement should include the word perhaps
, since Parent in their introduction says bluntly that ADoA is the most widely-reprinted essay and doesn't use the word "perhaps". I'm also not sure whether the lede statement should include imaginative examples and controversial conclusions
.
LightNightLights (
talk)
17:20, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
I find that the section about the violinist is not clear that is a comparison to consent. I think that there should be a sentence clarifying the point of the violinist argument at the beginning of the paragraph to clarify~~~~ Schooluser33 ( talk) 02:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Per MOS:NOITALIC, the title of this article should be in italics since it is the name of an essay. I will work on making the change in the upcoming days. Please comment if you have any questions/comments. Morogris ( ✉ • ✎) 16:17, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
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I am no expert on this area of ethics, but it seems clear to me that the current section marked simply "The Violinist" should actually only refer to cases of involuntary conception, i.e., rape. Voluntary conception is covered later, in the section labeled "Pregnancy resulting from voluntary intercourse", but this section is simply labeled "The Violinist", and nothing outside of the thought experiment, including the introductory paragraph, makes it clear that this particular argument is for the particular case of an involuntary pregnancy. This is a glaring oversight, if not deliberate misrepresentation, and should be addressed. Section headings are important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.92.191.173 ( talk) 09:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
the duty to sustain the violinist objection[19]: despite the common intuition, one does have an obligation to support the violinist, and likewise the fetus.
Huh? It's just this sentence, and it doesn't explain how the person has an 'obligation' to. I don't think one does personally, and just saying 'one does' is not good enough for an encyclopedia LuGiADude ( talk) 09:35, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
This section is in need of citations. Much of what is said has absolutely no sources. For example, who makes these objections? There are statements asserted as fact such as the obligation comment before mine - is it a fact that you have an obligation to the violinist? Is it a fact that it is immoral to separate conjoined twins, is it a fact that our intuitions on unrealistic examples are irrelevant? If so, citation needed.
Many of these objections, though decent objections, appear to be original research, and not criticism presented by other philosophers. I do not know how to put up the little box stating that the entire section is OR and needs citations or else I'd do it myself :( 63.139.220.200 ( talk) 22:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
I've never edited a WikiPedia page before, and I'm not going to invest the time right now to learn how to do it. However, I am currently working with this material and wish to add a citation for the Responsibility Objection. I don't think there's a clear origin of the objection since it was taken up by many people in response to Thomson's 'A Defense of Abortion'. Nonetheless, the Responsibility Objection" was coined by Harry S. Silverstein in 'On A Woman's "Responsibility" for the Fetus', published in Social Theory and Practice (1987:Spring), 13(1), p.103-119. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.102.77 ( talk) 00:13, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
The criticism section only includes counter-arguments to one of the arguments. 75.118.170.35 ( talk) 17:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
there was a pencil in the city of america —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.241.234 ( talk) 13:12, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Stating that Tacit consent cannot be inferred where contraception was used is similar to saying that Intoxication Manslaughter shouldn't be a crime because "I didn't think that I was THAT drunk." Use of contraception minimizes risk, but never completely removes it. Just as a person who "only had a few beers" may think that they are sober enough to drive, but in reality is still risking undesirable results. (Vehicular Homocide) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiterussian1974 ( talk • contribs) 09:47, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
what if a woman wants to have a baby, maybe in the future? hysterectomy wont be a solution —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.239.154.82 ( talk) 04:26, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Besides Tom Morris' point that you have not provided a published version of this objection, Thompson actually addresses the claim of tacit consent in the argument. In the floating "person seeds" portion of the paper she substitutes the use of birth control with the use of protective screens that one would place on a window. When one opens a window with a screen protector on (analogous to protected sexual intercourse) one incurs a ~1-5% probability that a person seed will float through the protector (birth control failure) and implant in the house. Thompson argues in the article that it is permissible under these circumstances to remove the "person seed" because it has invaded one's property, even though the owner knew that there was a slight chance that an implantation would result when the owner opened the window. I haven't found an objection to this portion of the argument, but my knowledge on the subject is far from exhaustive and I'd love to read one! A Laughton ( talk) 15:19, 24 July 2012 (UTC)
The structure of the Criticism section and the following table needs to be redone. The article at one point mentions that a table of common objections is found below, and this sentence is immediately followed by a list of LESS common objections. I think that the table ought to follow immediately after the statement about the common objections--either remove the statement, put it at the end, or, the best way in my opinion, simply append the less common objections to the end of the currently existing table and take them out of the criticism section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.195.165 ( talk) 02:00, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
The section seems quite one-sided, heavily biased in favour of Thomson and her defenders. It basically consists of a broad argument against Thomson's analogy, followed by several objections to the criticism (without including arguments that Thomson's critics have responded with). Furthermore, many of these objections seem to constitute original research as they are not cited but should be. Some are highly tendentious as well. For example:
Wikipedia articles, including this one, are not supposed to be a platform for defenders of legal abortion to publish their ideas. I think this section ought to be changed significantly (at very least removing uncited material), or simply removed. One criticism section is sufficient in my opinion. 174.2.68.142 ( talk) 18:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
I found the table to be informative, and full of useful references. In my opinion, removing it would harm the article. Jander80 ( talk) 04:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
This section is full of OR. In addition to the three examples cited, there are these:
Oddly, the first and second of these both include criticisms of themselves:
This is all blatantly OR. Frankly I'm surprised to find it on wikipedia. OckRaz talk 12:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Criticism section, after the 2nd paragraph -- that is, after ". . . letting die objection)." -- add:
It has been argued that a more serious defect in the thought experiment lies in the fundamental implication that the unfairness we intuitively feel is ascribable only to the use of another person's body. In reality, that intuition is ascribable more to the degree of the kidnapped person's sacrifice than to the exact nature of it. Thus if it can be shown that in situations other than pregnancy, society expects equal or greater sacrifices for the sake of an person whose life is in danger, particularly if that person's helplessness is due to its young age, there will be no unfairness in expecting a woman to endure her pregnancy --
"The real consideration is the degree of the sacrifice. Compare a healthy and affluent woman who has a trouble-free pregnancy and as smooth as possible a delivery, and thereafter gives for adoption or employs a nanny, to a handicapped man living at bare subsistence level who is the only support and care-giver of a sick daughter for years and years. . . . Here a person who is not pregnant and is moreover male is morally and legally obliged to make a greater sacrifice on behalf of a child than is a pregnant woman." ( http://www.NoTerminationWithoutRepresentation.org, "Personhood," Appendix 3)
Acyutananda ( talk) 18:58, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. I'm little familiar with Wikipedia editing. For my future understanding, aside from your decision this time: 1) I've now checked /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:RS. It mentions "peer-reviewed publications" in a way that makes clear that that is not a necessary criterion. Is that page outdated? It says "Deciding which sources are appropriate depends on context." 2) "by you": will an edit request invariably be evaluated entirely or partly according to who makes the request, or may it sometimes be evaluated on merit alone? 3) "you are taking a stand": I suppose you mean that the Wikipedia itself should not take a stand. But in the Criticism section, each of the "critics" and "defenders" does take a stand. My edit request, describing the argument of a critic, begins "It is argued . . ." Doesn't this make it clear that what follows means "In reality (according to the argument).... Thus (according to the argument) if it can be shown that ..." -- ? Acyutananda ( talk) 04:45, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. If there's still a chance, let me suggest this revised version:
It has been argued that a more serious defect in the thought experiment lies in its fundamental implication that the unfairness we intuitively feel is ascribable only to the use of another person's body. In reality, according to the argument, that intuition is ascribable more to the degree of the kidnapped person's sacrifice than to the exact nature of it; thus if it can be shown that in situations other than pregnancy, society expects equal or greater sacrifices for the sake of a helpless person whose life is in danger, particularly if that person's helplessness is due to its young age, there will be no unfairness in expecting a woman to endure her pregnancy:
"The real consideration is the degree of the sacrifice. Compare a healthy and affluent woman who has a trouble-free pregnancy and as smooth as possible a delivery, and thereafter gives for adoption or employs a nanny, to a handicapped man living at bare subsistence level who is the only support and care-giver of a sick daughter for years and years. . . . Here a person who is not pregnant and is moreover male is morally and legally obliged to make a greater sacrifice on behalf of a child than is a pregnant woman on behalf of her unborn child." ( http://www.NoTerminationWithoutRepresentation.org, "Personhood," Appendix 3) Acyutananda ( talk) 14:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks again. I don't see how there can be an issue of reliability when there's no reporting of facts going on, rather just philosophical argument. Is there such a thing as authority in philosophy, or just the faint possibility of insightfulness, acuity, etc. In philosophy there is indeed such a thing as prestige/respectability . . . again, I'm not familiar with all the Wikipedia's standards, or the reasons for them. Creating a website and expounding a view certainly doesn't mean that it's right for Wikipedia to give it air time (I do understand), but neither is the Wikipedia helpless to discriminate among views without applying prestige/respectability alone. Anyway, I'm happy with your solution. Acyutananda ( talk) 16:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. "How else should we protect ourselves from fringe theories . . .?" Editors of the Encyclopedia Britannica used sometimes themselves to be learned persons in the field concerned. As I remember, some EB articles were by-lined with such a person's name. Such a person would sometimes be capable of recognizing any merit in a previously-unrecognized source. 115.250.219.201 ( talk) 08:35, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
"I'm noticing that this has been mostly a discussion about how Wikipedia decides what to include and what not." For me that has been worth discussing in its own right. Sorry if I did not make clear that that was my main purpose in asking questions. The Wikipedia has a lot of impact on the world. Thank you for sparing some time. "I think you can't hope for much mileage . . ." No mileage in terms of my edit. Just mileage in terms of my understanding the Wikipedia. (I can't know whether or not there was anything useful in the discussion for the Wikipedia.) 115.253.196.203 ( talk) 11:51, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the good communications. 59.93.246.121 ( talk) 01:59, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Both Thomson's article and Boonin's book are titled 'A Defense of Abortion,' so I can understand how there could be some confusion. In the Table of criticisms and responses, each criticism is accompanied by Thomson's view AND Boonin's AND uncited OR. The OR is addressed above. I can't see why anyone would put Boonin's views about the criticisms here unless it was just an error based on the title. Mind you, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be included in wikipedia. They just don't belong here. They probably should be in this article: /info/en/?search=Philosophical_aspects_of_the_abortion_debate#The_bodily_rights_argument OckRaz talk 12:40, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
OK, I hope I did this right. I have taken the footnotes to sources for the common objections (the "tacit consent objection", the "responsibility objection", the "stranger-vs-offspring objection" and the "killing vs letting-die objection"), which were previously only posted in the "table of criticisms and responses" section, and placed them in the body of the text (the "criticism" section) which mentions them before the table. I also kept the footnotes in the table using the reference name function. As I say, I hope I did it right; the footnote numbers seem to correspond. Goblinshark17 ( talk) 07:22, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
I see nothing wrong with including the principle objections briefly at the end, but there was a table and additional paragraphs of objections - which are still by no means a complete catalog of the objections that have been raised. Plus, for every objection, there was one or more response, the lion's share of which came from a book with the same title but a different author (Boonin) defending Thomson's article. There's really no reason to stop there. There are responses to those responses. There are books which take aim at Boonin, and on, and on. An encyclopedia entry about Thomson's article should give a basic overview of what is said in the article and should probably include mention of one or two of the most significant objections just so that a novice reader won't get the mistaken impression that the article in question put an end to the debate.
Thomson opened a new front in the ethical conflict (beyond just, a. the right not to be killed is more substantial than controlling one's body, and b. there either is or isn't a prenatal right to life) by avoiding the usual area of conflict (the 'b' from above) calling into question something that had more or less been taken for granted (the 'a' from above) in academic journals, but she did that over 40 years ago. Three generations of scholars have argued over it since. Trying to capture all that in an entry about the original article makes no more sense than trying to capture all the debate Peter Singer has sparked in last 40 years and placing it in the article on his book 'Animal Liberation.'
As I said before, that material is fine for the article about the philosophical debate over abortion (particularly the bodily rights section - here) but inasmuch as it's gone well beyond the scope of this wikipedia article, I've removed it from this page. If I have time, maybe I'll reformat it and put it there myself. OckRaz talk 21:29, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm curious of what to do with the lede statement Thomson's imaginative examples and controversial conclusions have made "A Defense of Abortion" perhaps "the most widely reprinted essay in all of contemporary philosophy".
when it comes to:
For the first question, it was written by William Parent in the editor's introduction of Judith Thomson's Rights, Restitution, and Risk, but attribution might – possibly unjustifiably – imply that Parent is not qualified to describe ADoA like that (and vice-versa for the lack of attribution).
For the second, I can't find anything in the body about Parent's description of ADoA, which might raise the question of WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY, but I'm also not sure to what extent is WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY used for removal of lede statements.
For the third, I'm not sure whether the lede statement should include the word perhaps
, since Parent in their introduction says bluntly that ADoA is the most widely-reprinted essay and doesn't use the word "perhaps". I'm also not sure whether the lede statement should include imaginative examples and controversial conclusions
.
LightNightLights (
talk)
17:20, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
I find that the section about the violinist is not clear that is a comparison to consent. I think that there should be a sentence clarifying the point of the violinist argument at the beginning of the paragraph to clarify~~~~ Schooluser33 ( talk) 02:52, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
Per MOS:NOITALIC, the title of this article should be in italics since it is the name of an essay. I will work on making the change in the upcoming days. Please comment if you have any questions/comments. Morogris ( ✉ • ✎) 16:17, 18 July 2024 (UTC)