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It seems the article has multiple citations derived from a single source- and mentioned three(or four) times at the list of references.
FindMeLost ( talk) 13:42, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
I disagree. There are numerous original articles with licensed Starck photos, including The Times, Daily Mail, Boat International and SuperYachtTimes from May to August 2015, that called it Sailing Yacht A and discussed the yacht. It is enough for an accurate reference an clearly shows the name is S/Y A. None of them mention anything like White Pearl. It is simply wrong to call an article such a name or call it two names while the latter is obviously wrong/rumour/confusion or even if it was a technical name used by someone working on it. signed: user:Sasha-int) 19:01, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
What the magazine reports as the cost of the vessel is certainly the right number of figures, but it really is anybody's guess and could be well off. It is not encyclopaedic *at all* !. signed: Donan Raven ( talk) 00:02, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
This page should not be deleted because it predates and prelinks the page purported to replace it, simply because the contributor would like to wash out the project name (White Pearl) of an undergoing project. Since this project is still in trials and is not yet delivered or named (christened in maritime terms), the currently registered name (A, German flag, registered in Kiel) may yet (indeed, will) change name and flagstate again in the future so there is no valid reason for deleting the project name and the only shipyard source referring to the project. The contents of the existing page (this one) should be discussed in the talk page, amended and/or renamed, not deleted. signed: Donan Raven ( talk) 22:39, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
http://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/exclusive-pushing-the-boundaries-of-technology-sailing-yacht-a--27613 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3212897/The-superyacht-masts-taller-BIG-BEN-sails-size-football-field-Russian-billionaire-designs-luxury-vessel-set-begin-sea-trials-later-year.html http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/sport/sailing-yacht-a-super-yacht-andrey-melnichenko/ http://www.superyachttimes.com/editorial/33/article/id/14383/ http://theyachtphoto.com/sya.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasha-int ( talk • contribs) 18:45, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
If anyone cares for accuracy and I am all up for accuracy, this is obvious that the yacht's name is Sailing Yacht A, not White Pearl! Just check this and make your own judgement! If you find one reference to WP (which is obvious an enthusiasts rumour or a technical name of the shipyard who do not name the yacht, it is up to whoever's yacht it is! If you call your cat Kitty and a caretaker calls it John, it does't become John! Obviously, it was already named Sailing Yacht A if it's called like this in all magazines and newspapers - online and print. I am into yachts and it is important that things are called right. http://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/exclusive-pushing-the-boundaries-of-technology-sailing-yacht-a--27613 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3212897/The-superyacht-masts-taller-BIG-BEN-sails-size-football-field-Russian-billionaire-designs-luxury-vessel-set-begin-sea-trials-later-year.html http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/sport/sailing-yacht-a-super-yacht-andrey-melnichenko/ http://www.superyachttimes.com/editorial/33/article/id/14383/ http://theyachtphoto.com/sya.htm What other reference do you need? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasha-int ( talk • contribs) 18:09, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
01:01, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
22:15, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
1) "A was delivered to her owner on February 3rd, 2017". - this is not the case, S/Y A was delivered/completed by Nobiskrug but it is not yet delivered/handed over to the owner, according to multiple media reports in mainstream and industry media. Therefore, I suggest using quotes as in the media for better accuracy. Why removing SuperYacht Times, Boat International and Murcia Today articles? Suggest to leave as "delivery by Nobiskrug" but not handed over to the owner yet.
2) "She exited the Baltic Sea on near-empty fuel tanks in order to clear the Drodgen Strait with minimum draught" - OK fine, considering earlier reports Drogden could have been too shallow, but that was a rumour without merit and quickly rebutted, unsure it is vital to mention that, but no objections if you insist.
3) "called at Kristiansand for export (VAT exemption) purposes" - no references but most importantly this is not definite and a rumour, all reports mentioned they did not know why it stopped there as a fact and there was no proof (it could've been but there was no evidence so this is a pure speculation) - objected.
4) "Whilst bunkering fuel in Gibraltar on February 15th, she was impounded for six days on the claims of overdue installments to the builder and its subcontractors. - Yes it was reported as something newsy, but it was also reported these were disputed costs (which is often the case with many boats in this industry and not unique to S/Y A, you don't see it in all articles about other yachts) but not "overdue instalments", cannot see why this deserves to be mentioned at all as not encyclopaedic, furthermore the reference is not accurate (some media report 3 days), in any case the article is about S/Y A not its every move - objected.
5) "She is undergoing further sea trials and final fitout at the Navantia shipyard in Cartagena". - agreed, no objections, true fact, related to S/Y A characteristics and upcoming delivery to the owner, encyclopaedic fact.
6) "Over a period of two months in 2016, the Environmental Investigation Agency tracked shipments of teak logged in Burmese forests to the German Naval Yards in Kiel, where A was being fitted out. On March 14, 2017, after the yacht had exited German waters, the public prosecutor of Kiel warranted a search of the shipyard that confirmed the presence of timber samples that violated European Union Timber Regulations. Subsequently Nobiskrug confirmed to the prosecutor that the teak had been used as decking on the yacht but did not confirm knowledge of its illegal sourcing." - this is not an article about the EIA, but about about S/Y A (all superyachts virtually are fitted with teak, it is known in the industry), and this looks like a speculation of an NGO and not proven with fact, there is no evidence only claims. Statements of a local prosecutor (where the investigation is still going on by the way) only said the teak they found at Nobiskrug was not from a plantation. EUTR (in force from March 2013) does not require it should come from a plantation but that it should be sustainably sourced. Both Teak Solutions and Nobiskrug denied and rebutted these allegations. Not encyclopaedic at all, very weak. Objected.
I hope you will find those arguments reasonable. I will slightly edit/adjust the article in line with the above well referencing it to the sources to make sure it gives an accurate narrative.
By the way, I could not find the names you mentioned above of "Michael Ray Kimble" and "Diederik Kloosterman" in any reports but rather Mike Kimble and Dirk Kloosterman. How do you know their full names? You also mention the name Vensa Bloetz in the press release though there is no such name in the link. Are you affiliated with Nobiksrug shipbuilders and promoting their story on the yacht? I am sure you will appreciate that Wikipedia is not good for one-sided statements especially when involving disputes.
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
It seems the article has multiple citations derived from a single source- and mentioned three(or four) times at the list of references.
FindMeLost ( talk) 13:42, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
I disagree. There are numerous original articles with licensed Starck photos, including The Times, Daily Mail, Boat International and SuperYachtTimes from May to August 2015, that called it Sailing Yacht A and discussed the yacht. It is enough for an accurate reference an clearly shows the name is S/Y A. None of them mention anything like White Pearl. It is simply wrong to call an article such a name or call it two names while the latter is obviously wrong/rumour/confusion or even if it was a technical name used by someone working on it. signed: user:Sasha-int) 19:01, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
What the magazine reports as the cost of the vessel is certainly the right number of figures, but it really is anybody's guess and could be well off. It is not encyclopaedic *at all* !. signed: Donan Raven ( talk) 00:02, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
This page should not be deleted because it predates and prelinks the page purported to replace it, simply because the contributor would like to wash out the project name (White Pearl) of an undergoing project. Since this project is still in trials and is not yet delivered or named (christened in maritime terms), the currently registered name (A, German flag, registered in Kiel) may yet (indeed, will) change name and flagstate again in the future so there is no valid reason for deleting the project name and the only shipyard source referring to the project. The contents of the existing page (this one) should be discussed in the talk page, amended and/or renamed, not deleted. signed: Donan Raven ( talk) 22:39, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
http://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/exclusive-pushing-the-boundaries-of-technology-sailing-yacht-a--27613 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3212897/The-superyacht-masts-taller-BIG-BEN-sails-size-football-field-Russian-billionaire-designs-luxury-vessel-set-begin-sea-trials-later-year.html http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/sport/sailing-yacht-a-super-yacht-andrey-melnichenko/ http://www.superyachttimes.com/editorial/33/article/id/14383/ http://theyachtphoto.com/sya.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasha-int ( talk • contribs) 18:45, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
If anyone cares for accuracy and I am all up for accuracy, this is obvious that the yacht's name is Sailing Yacht A, not White Pearl! Just check this and make your own judgement! If you find one reference to WP (which is obvious an enthusiasts rumour or a technical name of the shipyard who do not name the yacht, it is up to whoever's yacht it is! If you call your cat Kitty and a caretaker calls it John, it does't become John! Obviously, it was already named Sailing Yacht A if it's called like this in all magazines and newspapers - online and print. I am into yachts and it is important that things are called right. http://www.boatinternational.com/yachts/news/exclusive-pushing-the-boundaries-of-technology-sailing-yacht-a--27613 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3212897/The-superyacht-masts-taller-BIG-BEN-sails-size-football-field-Russian-billionaire-designs-luxury-vessel-set-begin-sea-trials-later-year.html http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/sport/sailing-yacht-a-super-yacht-andrey-melnichenko/ http://www.superyachttimes.com/editorial/33/article/id/14383/ http://theyachtphoto.com/sya.htm What other reference do you need? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sasha-int ( talk • contribs) 18:09, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
01:01, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
22:15, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
1) "A was delivered to her owner on February 3rd, 2017". - this is not the case, S/Y A was delivered/completed by Nobiskrug but it is not yet delivered/handed over to the owner, according to multiple media reports in mainstream and industry media. Therefore, I suggest using quotes as in the media for better accuracy. Why removing SuperYacht Times, Boat International and Murcia Today articles? Suggest to leave as "delivery by Nobiskrug" but not handed over to the owner yet.
2) "She exited the Baltic Sea on near-empty fuel tanks in order to clear the Drodgen Strait with minimum draught" - OK fine, considering earlier reports Drogden could have been too shallow, but that was a rumour without merit and quickly rebutted, unsure it is vital to mention that, but no objections if you insist.
3) "called at Kristiansand for export (VAT exemption) purposes" - no references but most importantly this is not definite and a rumour, all reports mentioned they did not know why it stopped there as a fact and there was no proof (it could've been but there was no evidence so this is a pure speculation) - objected.
4) "Whilst bunkering fuel in Gibraltar on February 15th, she was impounded for six days on the claims of overdue installments to the builder and its subcontractors. - Yes it was reported as something newsy, but it was also reported these were disputed costs (which is often the case with many boats in this industry and not unique to S/Y A, you don't see it in all articles about other yachts) but not "overdue instalments", cannot see why this deserves to be mentioned at all as not encyclopaedic, furthermore the reference is not accurate (some media report 3 days), in any case the article is about S/Y A not its every move - objected.
5) "She is undergoing further sea trials and final fitout at the Navantia shipyard in Cartagena". - agreed, no objections, true fact, related to S/Y A characteristics and upcoming delivery to the owner, encyclopaedic fact.
6) "Over a period of two months in 2016, the Environmental Investigation Agency tracked shipments of teak logged in Burmese forests to the German Naval Yards in Kiel, where A was being fitted out. On March 14, 2017, after the yacht had exited German waters, the public prosecutor of Kiel warranted a search of the shipyard that confirmed the presence of timber samples that violated European Union Timber Regulations. Subsequently Nobiskrug confirmed to the prosecutor that the teak had been used as decking on the yacht but did not confirm knowledge of its illegal sourcing." - this is not an article about the EIA, but about about S/Y A (all superyachts virtually are fitted with teak, it is known in the industry), and this looks like a speculation of an NGO and not proven with fact, there is no evidence only claims. Statements of a local prosecutor (where the investigation is still going on by the way) only said the teak they found at Nobiskrug was not from a plantation. EUTR (in force from March 2013) does not require it should come from a plantation but that it should be sustainably sourced. Both Teak Solutions and Nobiskrug denied and rebutted these allegations. Not encyclopaedic at all, very weak. Objected.
I hope you will find those arguments reasonable. I will slightly edit/adjust the article in line with the above well referencing it to the sources to make sure it gives an accurate narrative.
By the way, I could not find the names you mentioned above of "Michael Ray Kimble" and "Diederik Kloosterman" in any reports but rather Mike Kimble and Dirk Kloosterman. How do you know their full names? You also mention the name Vensa Bloetz in the press release though there is no such name in the link. Are you affiliated with Nobiksrug shipbuilders and promoting their story on the yacht? I am sure you will appreciate that Wikipedia is not good for one-sided statements especially when involving disputes.