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When did United Macedonia exist for it to be reestablished? Mr. Neutron 20:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Map of the Ottoman Empire, 1801, within you will see the title Macedonia quite easily. You will also notice none of the occupied countries' borders are distinct. Frightner 21:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
the Bulgarian region and the Byzantine Empire ruled the region since the 4th century. Bulgaria couldn't have existed as a country if it was only created in the 7th century. When Slavs arrived in the Balkans fought the Byzantines and established a "Bulgarian Empire" which then fought for a Bulgarian nation and nationality. Bulgaria therefore never existed as a country but also a province or region. Frightner 22:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Mr. Noutron, you base too much of your information on your personal POV and rarely provide sources. You claim that when a Macedonian uses a Macedonian source it is nationalistic and bias but apparently it's OK when Bulgarians use a Bulgarian source. Frightner 22:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
So which is it? -- Laveol T 06:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Quote: "The Tito-Stalin split of 1948 and the defeat of the communists in the Greek Civil War ended Tito’s dream of uniting whole of region of Macedonia under his rule. Dejan Djokić claims that with Bulgaria once more reverting to denial of Macedonians as separate nation from Bulgarians and the victorious anti-communist Greek forces adamant in their own denial, the new Yugoslavia remained the only concrete medium for Macedonian aspirations to nationhood and quasi-statehood."
This is just plain retarded, and is obviously written by Greeks and Bulgarians. Firstly, Tito never had a "dream" about uniting Macedonia, but Macedonians feel those territories as theirs because both Greece and Bulgaria, after World War II began massive exterminations and ethnic cleansing of the native Macedonian people that lived there. Aegeans (Egejci) and Pirins (Pirinci) are the names of those peoples, which they named (and still name) themselves with. Also, Macedonians were longing for a statehood long before post-WW II Yugoslavia. Namely, the Samuil's Kingdom was a Macedonian kingdom of the tzar Samuil, which was defeated by the Byzantine empire. Even the city of Ohrid (Lihnida, Lychnidos) was named after the pain of the Macedonian army of that defeat. Samul was no "King of Bulgaria" and Samuil's Kingdom was not "Bulgarian Kingdom", and it won't be, even if you turn yourselves upside down and move like that. This is obvious non-sense, and I request for it to be changed. And stop Bulgarians and Greeks writing pathetic non-sense about others, and recommend them to toss their attention and resources towards their own business. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.205.32.84 ( talk) 16:55, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I had to revert the page move. However, the name of the institution clearly includes the word "People's" and not - "National". The same way China is officially the People's Republic of China and not the National Republic of China. "National" is not exactly the same as "people's" and the two have rather different implications. I see you have moved similar articles as well, but the move was plain wrong. Plus, English-language sources do indeed refer to this institution in particular as "People's". -- Laveol T 07:41, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
This article is not about Dobrin Michev himself. He worked as a historian in the Bulgarian Academy of sciences between 1971 and 1994. The Macedonian Scientific Institute is a non-governmental organization and is not financed by the Bulgarian state basically. This can be checked in the Statute of the association, which is published on the official website of the Institute - see art. 27 here: http://www.mni.bg/2013/06/ustav-na-mni.html. However this is not directly related to the issue with ASNOM's activity and the quorum of its first session, neither with this article about ASNOM itself. Another researcher Kostadin Paleshutski is of the same opinion. I have added a source about his view + explanation about the issue - >Only 60 of the designated 115 delegates were present at ASNOM's first session, but part of them were with questionable credentials. Moreover Nova Makedonija in its issues from 11—14 January, 1979, has maintained the number of the designated delegates was 122, which means the session was held without a real quorum. I have added also a lot of sources, confirming the Bulgarian army played the leading role by the driving of the Germans from the area of today North Macedonia. An example: Skopje was liberated by Bulgarian forces, while the Macedonian Partisans remained in the surrounding hills, and came down only to celebrate their entrance to the city. Similar scenes occurred in many other towns of Macedonia and Serbia, pointing to the fact that, from a military perspective the Russians were right: the Bulgarian army was the only force capable of driving the Germans quickly from Yugoslavia. Needless to say, the official Macedonian historiography, written mainly by Apostolski himself, understandably played down the crucial role of the Bulgarians. The glorification of the Partisan movement, an essential component of the post-war Yugoslav political culture-and more personal Partisan considerations left little room for such “technicalities”. For more see: Dimitris Livanios, The Macedonian Question: Britain and the Southern Balkans 1939–1949, Oxford University Press: Oxford, 2008; ISBN 9780199237685, p. 134. Jingiby ( talk) 06:23, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
I have delete this part because it contains inacurate information from User Jingiby who the text has no historical relevance but only propaganda 77.29.228.122 ( talk) 18:15, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Anti-fascist Assembly for the National Liberation of Macedonia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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When did United Macedonia exist for it to be reestablished? Mr. Neutron 20:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Map of the Ottoman Empire, 1801, within you will see the title Macedonia quite easily. You will also notice none of the occupied countries' borders are distinct. Frightner 21:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
the Bulgarian region and the Byzantine Empire ruled the region since the 4th century. Bulgaria couldn't have existed as a country if it was only created in the 7th century. When Slavs arrived in the Balkans fought the Byzantines and established a "Bulgarian Empire" which then fought for a Bulgarian nation and nationality. Bulgaria therefore never existed as a country but also a province or region. Frightner 22:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Mr. Noutron, you base too much of your information on your personal POV and rarely provide sources. You claim that when a Macedonian uses a Macedonian source it is nationalistic and bias but apparently it's OK when Bulgarians use a Bulgarian source. Frightner 22:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
So which is it? -- Laveol T 06:01, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Quote: "The Tito-Stalin split of 1948 and the defeat of the communists in the Greek Civil War ended Tito’s dream of uniting whole of region of Macedonia under his rule. Dejan Djokić claims that with Bulgaria once more reverting to denial of Macedonians as separate nation from Bulgarians and the victorious anti-communist Greek forces adamant in their own denial, the new Yugoslavia remained the only concrete medium for Macedonian aspirations to nationhood and quasi-statehood."
This is just plain retarded, and is obviously written by Greeks and Bulgarians. Firstly, Tito never had a "dream" about uniting Macedonia, but Macedonians feel those territories as theirs because both Greece and Bulgaria, after World War II began massive exterminations and ethnic cleansing of the native Macedonian people that lived there. Aegeans (Egejci) and Pirins (Pirinci) are the names of those peoples, which they named (and still name) themselves with. Also, Macedonians were longing for a statehood long before post-WW II Yugoslavia. Namely, the Samuil's Kingdom was a Macedonian kingdom of the tzar Samuil, which was defeated by the Byzantine empire. Even the city of Ohrid (Lihnida, Lychnidos) was named after the pain of the Macedonian army of that defeat. Samul was no "King of Bulgaria" and Samuil's Kingdom was not "Bulgarian Kingdom", and it won't be, even if you turn yourselves upside down and move like that. This is obvious non-sense, and I request for it to be changed. And stop Bulgarians and Greeks writing pathetic non-sense about others, and recommend them to toss their attention and resources towards their own business. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.205.32.84 ( talk) 16:55, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I had to revert the page move. However, the name of the institution clearly includes the word "People's" and not - "National". The same way China is officially the People's Republic of China and not the National Republic of China. "National" is not exactly the same as "people's" and the two have rather different implications. I see you have moved similar articles as well, but the move was plain wrong. Plus, English-language sources do indeed refer to this institution in particular as "People's". -- Laveol T 07:41, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
This article is not about Dobrin Michev himself. He worked as a historian in the Bulgarian Academy of sciences between 1971 and 1994. The Macedonian Scientific Institute is a non-governmental organization and is not financed by the Bulgarian state basically. This can be checked in the Statute of the association, which is published on the official website of the Institute - see art. 27 here: http://www.mni.bg/2013/06/ustav-na-mni.html. However this is not directly related to the issue with ASNOM's activity and the quorum of its first session, neither with this article about ASNOM itself. Another researcher Kostadin Paleshutski is of the same opinion. I have added a source about his view + explanation about the issue - >Only 60 of the designated 115 delegates were present at ASNOM's first session, but part of them were with questionable credentials. Moreover Nova Makedonija in its issues from 11—14 January, 1979, has maintained the number of the designated delegates was 122, which means the session was held without a real quorum. I have added also a lot of sources, confirming the Bulgarian army played the leading role by the driving of the Germans from the area of today North Macedonia. An example: Skopje was liberated by Bulgarian forces, while the Macedonian Partisans remained in the surrounding hills, and came down only to celebrate their entrance to the city. Similar scenes occurred in many other towns of Macedonia and Serbia, pointing to the fact that, from a military perspective the Russians were right: the Bulgarian army was the only force capable of driving the Germans quickly from Yugoslavia. Needless to say, the official Macedonian historiography, written mainly by Apostolski himself, understandably played down the crucial role of the Bulgarians. The glorification of the Partisan movement, an essential component of the post-war Yugoslav political culture-and more personal Partisan considerations left little room for such “technicalities”. For more see: Dimitris Livanios, The Macedonian Question: Britain and the Southern Balkans 1939–1949, Oxford University Press: Oxford, 2008; ISBN 9780199237685, p. 134. Jingiby ( talk) 06:23, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
I have delete this part because it contains inacurate information from User Jingiby who the text has no historical relevance but only propaganda 77.29.228.122 ( talk) 18:15, 7 November 2022 (UTC)