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Who keeps removing all the stuff that gets entered? Toys and stock car racing were just ripped out. (This unsigned comment was left by 131.107.0.73)
ApolloBoy, will you quit removing other people's stuff that is true! No one appointed you to be the determiner of truth. The AMC intermediate line ends at the Premier, and no one disputes that the Premier was the basis for the LH, and the LH is the forerunner of the LX. The 300C has a closer actual lineage to the Matador / Ambassador than to the original 60's 300 or 70s 300 cars. (This unsigned comment was left by 71.112.5.20)
It's not good form to remove the work of others and call it vandalism. I'd call THAT vandalism. -- Wiarthurhu 06:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC) We can all get along if we respect each other's work and build up information that others will find useful. The Matador is one obscure car that is essentially documented on only a few web pages and maybe 2 books. It is simply rude and hostile to go around deleting everything that differs from your own point of view.-- Wiarthurhu 06:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
You should then remove the entire article, which contains no references. I'm sure the community will appreciate that.-- Wiarthurhu 16:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Obviously this article needs references - but so do most articles. But at least if the information is undisputed by the vast majority of editors then we can leave it there while suitable references can be found - if we didn't do that, we'd have a pretty pathetic encyclopedia. But: when two people dispute the facts in they way that you guys are, the only recourse is to references. If the information is disputed and you have good references then let's see them - let's have someone go check out the book from the library - or look at the referenced web site - maybe we just trust that your references are good - whatever. But if you can't tell us where you found this information - why should we be convinced by it? If the information is disputed and NO references can be found then I think the information should be removed from the article because the people disputing the truth of these facts can't possibly come up with a reference that says "Such and such is not true" - so it is incumbent on the person that believes it to be true to come up with a reference that says "Such and such IS true". So I guess I side with ApolloBoy here - let's take this information out of the article and give Wiarthurhu time to dig up some references. Meanwhile, what ApolloBoy is doing isn't vandalism - that's a terrible thing to accuse someone of doing. Wiarthurhu: please go and read WP:VANDAL - then apologise to the poor guy and go find some references for us to look at. SteveBaker 03:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Wiarthurhu 07:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Is somebody still confused as to what constitues a sucessor? It doesn't have to be contiguous (ie Ford Thunderbird) It doesn't have to have the same nameplate (Aerostar, Windstar, Freestar), it does need to occupy the same market niche. Whoever keep simply removing new information to simply make it look like what somebody else had a month ago simply isn't good for this page. We need a community that works together, not simply tear down what other people contribute. I'm happy to edit for style and verbosity, but please do not discard useful information.-- Wiarthurhu 17:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Ugh. The car the follow in the same niche at a later time is a succesor. The matador was also a large car, they were as roomy as full sized Fords or Chevies inside. The LX and LH have nothing mechanically in common, but are succesors, and the premier->Monaco->Intrepid->Charger line is solid, it's just a few short years joining to the Ambassador->Rebel->Matador line which is also solid.
The article says that Matadors were used in the TV version of The Dukes of Hazzard - however, the comprehensive list of cars in that article doesn't mention the Matador. In fact, the only cars not listed explicitly in that article is the police cruisers. Were those Matadors? SteveBaker 23:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Only police cars I saw were the downsized Satellite Furies. I'd notice if it was a Matador, is there a DOH expert who can confirm?-- Wiarthurhu 07:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
OK - then let's rip that line out of the article - we can put it back if we find solid evidence. Meanwhile it's not looking right and it's better to have missing information than wrong information - even if it's only in a 'trivia' section. SteveBaker 14:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In Dukes of Hazard, AMC Matadors were used in theearly seasons (1979-81). These Matadors were of the 1974 and above models with the coffin nose. Believe me, these cars are noticeable. User:Waynestevens —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waynestevens ( talk • contribs) 08:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Useful tip for the future: It seems like there was no photo of an actual, for real, not NASCAR-ized Matador on the page - so I found someone selling their car on eBay and asked really nicely if I could feature their car in the Wikipedia article - and (no suprise) they were very happy to hand over the rights to their photo. This trick has worked for me half a dozen times - and it's a LOT better than relying on 'fair use' images. SteveBaker 02:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to see the old photo back. There's a reason they used retouched photos in glossy literature, it looks better, plus it's got the wood grain top-of-the-line model. Somewhere in the middle, cropped and larger might work, but we need pictures of the 2 and 4 door, and the ugly 78 4 door, why don't you try that trick with another body style. There was also a terrific Matador wagon drag racer that might still be on ebay. PS, the truth will come out. The Premier is the follow on, just you wait........ Yeah, I might be a little odd for thinking that the Matador and Premier are some of the most important cars in American history instead of 2 most obscure cars.... -- Wiarthurhu 07:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The 'old photo' wasn't a photo at all - it's artwork (I do photogrammetry as part of my job - trust me, I know an airbrushed image from a photo). But in any case, the person who contributed that photo admits to not knowing its history - and what vague hints there are as to its history suggest that it's maybe kinda justifiable under 'fair use'. But one of the requirements of fair use in Wikipedia is that you can't find a substitute - and I just did - so we can't use it anymore - and frankly, we don't want to because the idea is to have free and original content here. Let's just find someone with a photo of a wood-sided Matador on their web site and ask nicely if we can use it. I have asked DOZENS of people to rights to use their photos - and as soon as you say it's for Wikipedia, they have always been happy (even 'honored') to have their car/plane/whatever featured here. SteveBaker 14:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I've seen that picture when it first came out, you can still get the AMC product brocure for 1972 from ebay. All of the pictures looked like that. I think photography has advanced a bit since then. Believe me, nobody was more enthusiastic about Matadors at the time than I was in high school (yes, that's pretty sad). It must be a scan from the brocure. I asked another guy for the 1977 4 door, and will put it up when I get an OK. Anyways, I would like to ask you to put the original picture back, and put the photo into a gallery at the bottom where we can pile all the other pictures that will be coming up I don't want to surprise you by doing it myself, or forcing a vote on the issue. The picture should be re-annoted to read "witness can verify that it appeard in AMC brocure in 1972" BTW, how DO they make pictures that look like retouched photos? -- 71.112.5.20 15:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I've merged content from List of 1971 American Motors automobiles, but since it's a list of specifications sourced from Oct. 1970 Popular Mechanics, I think it's safe to delete the article as long as I provide proper attribution. So here is the article history before I deleted it:
-- Deathphoenix ʕ 23:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Looks ok, but toys and reference to next big AMC car deleted again. Please leave stuff in that's verifiable as long as it's not demonstrably wrong or ugly. Matador pinewood derby is cute and should stay, the Mark Donahue and pinewood derby don't mind and there is no other picture of that hardtop style -- matador300 22:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I thought the WP pages were free for anybody to edit. Now there's a governmental body that dictates which content will be summarily removed without warning? If so where is the complete list of content that will be tossed out, and where is the rule that any mention of an Eagle Premier in the context of being a link between AMC and Chrysler is to be banned while we're at it?? Why not put a complete list of all banned topics at the top of every article, so new editors don't waste their time. So far anybody that mentions flush door handles, flush headrests, or Machine option gets erased, let alone any connection to Eagle or Chrysler.
It took me 3 hours to find and capture the screen with Michael Jackson on top of a Matador, not to mention 6 months of working on a list of toys and collectibles, and now we have a fashion police that dictates what data will be kicked out whether or not it destroys useful information? WP dictates you can remove information if it is a good faith attempt to improve WP, but if it detracts, it is vandalism.
This is what I hate about WP, it will only permit whatever bunch of jokers wants to control into it.
I placed a link from the Michael Jackson video to this content, and then Apolloboy goes and erases it again. What gives? Can't we just let content sit in piece instead of tossing everything they didn't write out the window?? -- matador300 05:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
This was bloody awful, but it was not vandalism, I'll keep it here in case there's something that can be salvaged later. -- matador300 22:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
- The AMC Matador is an intermediate size car manufactured by American Motors Corporation from 1971 to '78. The name Matador replaced Rebel, as AMC continued to shed the Rambler image that had become tainted with jeers for having dull styling and sluggish performance, and verifies AMC's intention to race the car in stock car racing circuits where certain of those tracks are known as "bullrings". From '71 to '73, three models were made, all sharing the same drivetrain options and recognizable styling features; a 2dr, 4dr and station wagon. The 2dr Rebel Machine became an encoded high performance option for the Matador without the exterior telling cues. This option included AMC's new 401 version of the former 390 V8 with a 4spd manual transmission and a police car type suspension package (heavy duty springs and shocks, front and rear sway bars). The police car package on the sedan type (mostly 4dr) Matadors are well favored in history, having the Adam-12 TV show for verification. Matador station wagons featured a dual action, changeable rear door that swung from it's side or bottom hinges. The full selection of all AMC drivetrains and interior options could be had from spartan base model to powerful and/or luxurious versions as AMC attempted to match their competition's offerings. True to it's mission, AMC launched a version of this Matador into sanctioned stock car racing donning the obligatory sectioned red, white and blue AMC racing team paint scheme. While the hired Penske Racing crew complained of the Matador's aerodynamic qualities, this car's moderate racing success was more probably due to engine failures, judging by what the sanctioning body record charts say in racing history; the DNF (did not finish) with engine failure for reason is prevalent. A hired racing engine builder company named Traco was criticized for this problem. A strikingly different styled new 2dr became available in late '73, as a '74 model, known as the Matador coupe; AMC's AMX image arrived in a larger intermediate model, the styling obviously transferred from the limited production mid-engined '70 AMX/3. Arguably more handsome, a 4dr and station wagon model were planned to follow the initial splash of the 2dr but the gas crisis of '73 crushed AMC's dream to evolve their large intermediate class models into this unconventional body style. Tragic timing. Frankly, it seemed the Matador Coupe and it's the gas monster 4bbl AMC V8 engine options existed only to serve AMC's addiction to racing in spite of the gas crisis. AMC adamantly served the radical 2dr to the public with a healthy spectrum of optional trim levels; base model, Brougham, Matador X, the plush Oleg Cassini and Barcelona, and of course, an aerodynamic designed body to serve it's own racing mission to outdo the competition. Then it was Bobby Allison who earned respect for AMC with a Matador Coupe on the raceways of USA. With respect for US history, the gas crisis caused consumers had turned away to embrace imported cars for their foreign frugality. AMC reacted only to continue the pre-'74 model 4dr and station wagon, with minor revisions, for it's loyal followers, along with the racy 2dr version, making those three models until 1978. Most memorable, the Matador Coupe properly prepared to race on a sanctioned raceway, and the Matador police car both earned their honorable mention in US auto history. Currently active AMC enthusiast clubs are excellent sources for information and parts for any interested autophile
This user put his favorite pinewood derby car back into AMC Matador again - I rv'ed it...again...<sigh>. This is a photo he took of a car he built (at least according to the image description) - this is definitely 'original research'. If you make a model of a car take a photo of it and attach it to an article about that car - you did original research - and it's flat out not allowed - no matter how relevent it might be to the article. It's also 'WP:Vanity' - which is also not allowed. Also, we do not put material about toy cars into articles about real cars - just about every real car ever made has one or more toys made of it - so this fact is quite utterly non-notable. If we're going to document the toys made for real cars then I'm going to have to start photographing my 300 toy MINIs! This has to be the fifth or sixth time we've been through this - and I'm getting pretty sick of it. SteveBaker 01:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu has now added WP:3RR to WP:NOR, WP:Vanity and WP:NPA - so I've taken it to mediation: Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-08-03 AMC Matador - this is just ridiculous. SteveBaker 01:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
For a car that advertised its obscurity, it was the subject of not a small number of scale models and toys, compared to the higher volume but rarely modeled Hornet. Aurora AFX HO-scale slot cars made police and taxi versions of the 1972 hardtop, including one painted like the Penske / Mark Donahue "flying brick". The overstyled 1974 coupe was also produced as an HO slot car, but not the better selling Ford Torino. The coupe was the subject of 1/24 scale plastic models by AMT. Cox, maker of gas powered models, produced a 4 door Matador sedan, and a larger slot car of the 1974 coupe. While the Plymouth Superbird is a common Pinewood Derby muscle car subject, its boxy shape makes the 1972 Penske Matador a relatively simple project.
Does this rule apply to all auto and toy pages? Airplane pages? Ship pages? Are all model and replicas banned on all WP pages? All auto pages? Certain auto pages? Toy pages? Who makes the rules? Why can you post a picture of a Matador on a pinewood derby or matchbox page, but not on the car it represents? What if no picture of the actual car is available, and no promo picture is available? Who made up these rules? Which pages do they govern? Can you use a model of the Boeing 787 on that page if the airplane hasn't been built yet? What if after it has been built? Are digital models allowed? Are links to movies of digital models allowed (see SA-6)? Are drawings allowed? If so by whom? What about a stack of Hot Wheels Dodge Caravans? What if you have a sourced reference to a notable toy? Can a toy have an entry (such as GI Joe?) Can a single scene from a movie have an article (Killer rabbit?) Can a single character from a movie have an article? Can a single model of a car (The Machine) have its own article? Is an automotive reference book an unreliable source? Is an article with many references and links unsourced? And what is the meaning of life anyway??? -- matador300 02:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Can't we all just get along? -- Rodney King
I took your advice and "Looked up the definition of consensus. That's EVERYBODY agrees."
That's me citing a reliable source. I'll add your 5th revert to the list now. Regards, -- DeLarge 03:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Please justify the removal of Adam 12 and Pink Floyd and Cox from this section:
While V-8 power was down for many sedans, AMC used a 401 cubic inch V-8 that outpowered most other police sedans. 0 to 60 times were within 7 seconds, comparable to the 2006 Charger Hemi police car. Top speed was about 125 miles an hour, which took only 43 seconds, much faster than the previous 1970 Plymouth Satellites. These cars would be seen on later episodes of Adam-12, and Pink Floyd The Wall (film). The Adam-12 police car would also be the subject of a now-rare Cox radio controlled gas powered replica. [1]-- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
-- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
By these counts, there are actually more famous Matadors than Satellites or Belvederes, if we count all the ones removed by ApolloBoy. -- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the messed up deletion-- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
To quote from WP:Vandal
Way to go Wiarthurhu - are you trying for some kind of Wiki-record and become the first person to violate ALL of the rules? SteveBaker 02:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I messed up, what can I say? Edits made in good faith are never vandalism. Now YOU'RE being uncivil. Ease up man.-- matador300 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
BTW, what's up with Matador being the only car that can't mention being on Adam-12 or TV series?? Or videos. Or movies. What do YOU think?? -- matador300 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, now I'm really upset. Equal justice for Matador!! -- matador300 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Monacos were popular as police cars and a 1974 police model nicknamed " The Bluesmobile" appears as the vehicle purchased by Elwood Blues in the 1980 comedy film The Blues Brothers.
Many of these police car Monacos of the 1970s (and its sister car, the Plymouth Fury) were torpedoed in the air or destroyed in Hollywood car stunt scenes in that decade and in the 1980s. The Dukes of Hazzard was infamous for the use (and destruction) of mid- to late-1970s Dodge Monacos and Plymouth Furys. A few were also used in early episodes of the 1980s show T. J. Hooker. The title character of the cop show Hunter drove a hunter-green '78 Monaco. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiarthurhu ( talk) Revision as of 22:29, August 7, 2006
How's that for a simple guideline?? -- matador300 02:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
If I buy it, can I mention it in the article?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiarthurhu ( talk) Revision as of 17:12, August 9, 2006
The Matador Coupe never had roll-down quarter windows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.251.114 ( talk) 10:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
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Who keeps removing all the stuff that gets entered? Toys and stock car racing were just ripped out. (This unsigned comment was left by 131.107.0.73)
ApolloBoy, will you quit removing other people's stuff that is true! No one appointed you to be the determiner of truth. The AMC intermediate line ends at the Premier, and no one disputes that the Premier was the basis for the LH, and the LH is the forerunner of the LX. The 300C has a closer actual lineage to the Matador / Ambassador than to the original 60's 300 or 70s 300 cars. (This unsigned comment was left by 71.112.5.20)
It's not good form to remove the work of others and call it vandalism. I'd call THAT vandalism. -- Wiarthurhu 06:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC) We can all get along if we respect each other's work and build up information that others will find useful. The Matador is one obscure car that is essentially documented on only a few web pages and maybe 2 books. It is simply rude and hostile to go around deleting everything that differs from your own point of view.-- Wiarthurhu 06:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
You should then remove the entire article, which contains no references. I'm sure the community will appreciate that.-- Wiarthurhu 16:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Obviously this article needs references - but so do most articles. But at least if the information is undisputed by the vast majority of editors then we can leave it there while suitable references can be found - if we didn't do that, we'd have a pretty pathetic encyclopedia. But: when two people dispute the facts in they way that you guys are, the only recourse is to references. If the information is disputed and you have good references then let's see them - let's have someone go check out the book from the library - or look at the referenced web site - maybe we just trust that your references are good - whatever. But if you can't tell us where you found this information - why should we be convinced by it? If the information is disputed and NO references can be found then I think the information should be removed from the article because the people disputing the truth of these facts can't possibly come up with a reference that says "Such and such is not true" - so it is incumbent on the person that believes it to be true to come up with a reference that says "Such and such IS true". So I guess I side with ApolloBoy here - let's take this information out of the article and give Wiarthurhu time to dig up some references. Meanwhile, what ApolloBoy is doing isn't vandalism - that's a terrible thing to accuse someone of doing. Wiarthurhu: please go and read WP:VANDAL - then apologise to the poor guy and go find some references for us to look at. SteveBaker 03:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Wiarthurhu 07:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Is somebody still confused as to what constitues a sucessor? It doesn't have to be contiguous (ie Ford Thunderbird) It doesn't have to have the same nameplate (Aerostar, Windstar, Freestar), it does need to occupy the same market niche. Whoever keep simply removing new information to simply make it look like what somebody else had a month ago simply isn't good for this page. We need a community that works together, not simply tear down what other people contribute. I'm happy to edit for style and verbosity, but please do not discard useful information.-- Wiarthurhu 17:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Ugh. The car the follow in the same niche at a later time is a succesor. The matador was also a large car, they were as roomy as full sized Fords or Chevies inside. The LX and LH have nothing mechanically in common, but are succesors, and the premier->Monaco->Intrepid->Charger line is solid, it's just a few short years joining to the Ambassador->Rebel->Matador line which is also solid.
The article says that Matadors were used in the TV version of The Dukes of Hazzard - however, the comprehensive list of cars in that article doesn't mention the Matador. In fact, the only cars not listed explicitly in that article is the police cruisers. Were those Matadors? SteveBaker 23:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Only police cars I saw were the downsized Satellite Furies. I'd notice if it was a Matador, is there a DOH expert who can confirm?-- Wiarthurhu 07:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
OK - then let's rip that line out of the article - we can put it back if we find solid evidence. Meanwhile it's not looking right and it's better to have missing information than wrong information - even if it's only in a 'trivia' section. SteveBaker 14:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
In Dukes of Hazard, AMC Matadors were used in theearly seasons (1979-81). These Matadors were of the 1974 and above models with the coffin nose. Believe me, these cars are noticeable. User:Waynestevens —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waynestevens ( talk • contribs) 08:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Useful tip for the future: It seems like there was no photo of an actual, for real, not NASCAR-ized Matador on the page - so I found someone selling their car on eBay and asked really nicely if I could feature their car in the Wikipedia article - and (no suprise) they were very happy to hand over the rights to their photo. This trick has worked for me half a dozen times - and it's a LOT better than relying on 'fair use' images. SteveBaker 02:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to see the old photo back. There's a reason they used retouched photos in glossy literature, it looks better, plus it's got the wood grain top-of-the-line model. Somewhere in the middle, cropped and larger might work, but we need pictures of the 2 and 4 door, and the ugly 78 4 door, why don't you try that trick with another body style. There was also a terrific Matador wagon drag racer that might still be on ebay. PS, the truth will come out. The Premier is the follow on, just you wait........ Yeah, I might be a little odd for thinking that the Matador and Premier are some of the most important cars in American history instead of 2 most obscure cars.... -- Wiarthurhu 07:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
The 'old photo' wasn't a photo at all - it's artwork (I do photogrammetry as part of my job - trust me, I know an airbrushed image from a photo). But in any case, the person who contributed that photo admits to not knowing its history - and what vague hints there are as to its history suggest that it's maybe kinda justifiable under 'fair use'. But one of the requirements of fair use in Wikipedia is that you can't find a substitute - and I just did - so we can't use it anymore - and frankly, we don't want to because the idea is to have free and original content here. Let's just find someone with a photo of a wood-sided Matador on their web site and ask nicely if we can use it. I have asked DOZENS of people to rights to use their photos - and as soon as you say it's for Wikipedia, they have always been happy (even 'honored') to have their car/plane/whatever featured here. SteveBaker 14:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I've seen that picture when it first came out, you can still get the AMC product brocure for 1972 from ebay. All of the pictures looked like that. I think photography has advanced a bit since then. Believe me, nobody was more enthusiastic about Matadors at the time than I was in high school (yes, that's pretty sad). It must be a scan from the brocure. I asked another guy for the 1977 4 door, and will put it up when I get an OK. Anyways, I would like to ask you to put the original picture back, and put the photo into a gallery at the bottom where we can pile all the other pictures that will be coming up I don't want to surprise you by doing it myself, or forcing a vote on the issue. The picture should be re-annoted to read "witness can verify that it appeard in AMC brocure in 1972" BTW, how DO they make pictures that look like retouched photos? -- 71.112.5.20 15:21, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I've merged content from List of 1971 American Motors automobiles, but since it's a list of specifications sourced from Oct. 1970 Popular Mechanics, I think it's safe to delete the article as long as I provide proper attribution. So here is the article history before I deleted it:
-- Deathphoenix ʕ 23:55, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Looks ok, but toys and reference to next big AMC car deleted again. Please leave stuff in that's verifiable as long as it's not demonstrably wrong or ugly. Matador pinewood derby is cute and should stay, the Mark Donahue and pinewood derby don't mind and there is no other picture of that hardtop style -- matador300 22:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I thought the WP pages were free for anybody to edit. Now there's a governmental body that dictates which content will be summarily removed without warning? If so where is the complete list of content that will be tossed out, and where is the rule that any mention of an Eagle Premier in the context of being a link between AMC and Chrysler is to be banned while we're at it?? Why not put a complete list of all banned topics at the top of every article, so new editors don't waste their time. So far anybody that mentions flush door handles, flush headrests, or Machine option gets erased, let alone any connection to Eagle or Chrysler.
It took me 3 hours to find and capture the screen with Michael Jackson on top of a Matador, not to mention 6 months of working on a list of toys and collectibles, and now we have a fashion police that dictates what data will be kicked out whether or not it destroys useful information? WP dictates you can remove information if it is a good faith attempt to improve WP, but if it detracts, it is vandalism.
This is what I hate about WP, it will only permit whatever bunch of jokers wants to control into it.
I placed a link from the Michael Jackson video to this content, and then Apolloboy goes and erases it again. What gives? Can't we just let content sit in piece instead of tossing everything they didn't write out the window?? -- matador300 05:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
This was bloody awful, but it was not vandalism, I'll keep it here in case there's something that can be salvaged later. -- matador300 22:47, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
- The AMC Matador is an intermediate size car manufactured by American Motors Corporation from 1971 to '78. The name Matador replaced Rebel, as AMC continued to shed the Rambler image that had become tainted with jeers for having dull styling and sluggish performance, and verifies AMC's intention to race the car in stock car racing circuits where certain of those tracks are known as "bullrings". From '71 to '73, three models were made, all sharing the same drivetrain options and recognizable styling features; a 2dr, 4dr and station wagon. The 2dr Rebel Machine became an encoded high performance option for the Matador without the exterior telling cues. This option included AMC's new 401 version of the former 390 V8 with a 4spd manual transmission and a police car type suspension package (heavy duty springs and shocks, front and rear sway bars). The police car package on the sedan type (mostly 4dr) Matadors are well favored in history, having the Adam-12 TV show for verification. Matador station wagons featured a dual action, changeable rear door that swung from it's side or bottom hinges. The full selection of all AMC drivetrains and interior options could be had from spartan base model to powerful and/or luxurious versions as AMC attempted to match their competition's offerings. True to it's mission, AMC launched a version of this Matador into sanctioned stock car racing donning the obligatory sectioned red, white and blue AMC racing team paint scheme. While the hired Penske Racing crew complained of the Matador's aerodynamic qualities, this car's moderate racing success was more probably due to engine failures, judging by what the sanctioning body record charts say in racing history; the DNF (did not finish) with engine failure for reason is prevalent. A hired racing engine builder company named Traco was criticized for this problem. A strikingly different styled new 2dr became available in late '73, as a '74 model, known as the Matador coupe; AMC's AMX image arrived in a larger intermediate model, the styling obviously transferred from the limited production mid-engined '70 AMX/3. Arguably more handsome, a 4dr and station wagon model were planned to follow the initial splash of the 2dr but the gas crisis of '73 crushed AMC's dream to evolve their large intermediate class models into this unconventional body style. Tragic timing. Frankly, it seemed the Matador Coupe and it's the gas monster 4bbl AMC V8 engine options existed only to serve AMC's addiction to racing in spite of the gas crisis. AMC adamantly served the radical 2dr to the public with a healthy spectrum of optional trim levels; base model, Brougham, Matador X, the plush Oleg Cassini and Barcelona, and of course, an aerodynamic designed body to serve it's own racing mission to outdo the competition. Then it was Bobby Allison who earned respect for AMC with a Matador Coupe on the raceways of USA. With respect for US history, the gas crisis caused consumers had turned away to embrace imported cars for their foreign frugality. AMC reacted only to continue the pre-'74 model 4dr and station wagon, with minor revisions, for it's loyal followers, along with the racy 2dr version, making those three models until 1978. Most memorable, the Matador Coupe properly prepared to race on a sanctioned raceway, and the Matador police car both earned their honorable mention in US auto history. Currently active AMC enthusiast clubs are excellent sources for information and parts for any interested autophile
This user put his favorite pinewood derby car back into AMC Matador again - I rv'ed it...again...<sigh>. This is a photo he took of a car he built (at least according to the image description) - this is definitely 'original research'. If you make a model of a car take a photo of it and attach it to an article about that car - you did original research - and it's flat out not allowed - no matter how relevent it might be to the article. It's also 'WP:Vanity' - which is also not allowed. Also, we do not put material about toy cars into articles about real cars - just about every real car ever made has one or more toys made of it - so this fact is quite utterly non-notable. If we're going to document the toys made for real cars then I'm going to have to start photographing my 300 toy MINIs! This has to be the fifth or sixth time we've been through this - and I'm getting pretty sick of it. SteveBaker 01:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu has now added WP:3RR to WP:NOR, WP:Vanity and WP:NPA - so I've taken it to mediation: Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-08-03 AMC Matador - this is just ridiculous. SteveBaker 01:46, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
For a car that advertised its obscurity, it was the subject of not a small number of scale models and toys, compared to the higher volume but rarely modeled Hornet. Aurora AFX HO-scale slot cars made police and taxi versions of the 1972 hardtop, including one painted like the Penske / Mark Donahue "flying brick". The overstyled 1974 coupe was also produced as an HO slot car, but not the better selling Ford Torino. The coupe was the subject of 1/24 scale plastic models by AMT. Cox, maker of gas powered models, produced a 4 door Matador sedan, and a larger slot car of the 1974 coupe. While the Plymouth Superbird is a common Pinewood Derby muscle car subject, its boxy shape makes the 1972 Penske Matador a relatively simple project.
Does this rule apply to all auto and toy pages? Airplane pages? Ship pages? Are all model and replicas banned on all WP pages? All auto pages? Certain auto pages? Toy pages? Who makes the rules? Why can you post a picture of a Matador on a pinewood derby or matchbox page, but not on the car it represents? What if no picture of the actual car is available, and no promo picture is available? Who made up these rules? Which pages do they govern? Can you use a model of the Boeing 787 on that page if the airplane hasn't been built yet? What if after it has been built? Are digital models allowed? Are links to movies of digital models allowed (see SA-6)? Are drawings allowed? If so by whom? What about a stack of Hot Wheels Dodge Caravans? What if you have a sourced reference to a notable toy? Can a toy have an entry (such as GI Joe?) Can a single scene from a movie have an article (Killer rabbit?) Can a single character from a movie have an article? Can a single model of a car (The Machine) have its own article? Is an automotive reference book an unreliable source? Is an article with many references and links unsourced? And what is the meaning of life anyway??? -- matador300 02:53, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Can't we all just get along? -- Rodney King
I took your advice and "Looked up the definition of consensus. That's EVERYBODY agrees."
That's me citing a reliable source. I'll add your 5th revert to the list now. Regards, -- DeLarge 03:00, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Please justify the removal of Adam 12 and Pink Floyd and Cox from this section:
While V-8 power was down for many sedans, AMC used a 401 cubic inch V-8 that outpowered most other police sedans. 0 to 60 times were within 7 seconds, comparable to the 2006 Charger Hemi police car. Top speed was about 125 miles an hour, which took only 43 seconds, much faster than the previous 1970 Plymouth Satellites. These cars would be seen on later episodes of Adam-12, and Pink Floyd The Wall (film). The Adam-12 police car would also be the subject of a now-rare Cox radio controlled gas powered replica. [1]-- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
-- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
By these counts, there are actually more famous Matadors than Satellites or Belvederes, if we count all the ones removed by ApolloBoy. -- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry about the messed up deletion-- matador300 02:25, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
To quote from WP:Vandal
Way to go Wiarthurhu - are you trying for some kind of Wiki-record and become the first person to violate ALL of the rules? SteveBaker 02:26, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I messed up, what can I say? Edits made in good faith are never vandalism. Now YOU'RE being uncivil. Ease up man.-- matador300 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
BTW, what's up with Matador being the only car that can't mention being on Adam-12 or TV series?? Or videos. Or movies. What do YOU think?? -- matador300 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Okay, now I'm really upset. Equal justice for Matador!! -- matador300 02:29, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Monacos were popular as police cars and a 1974 police model nicknamed " The Bluesmobile" appears as the vehicle purchased by Elwood Blues in the 1980 comedy film The Blues Brothers.
Many of these police car Monacos of the 1970s (and its sister car, the Plymouth Fury) were torpedoed in the air or destroyed in Hollywood car stunt scenes in that decade and in the 1980s. The Dukes of Hazzard was infamous for the use (and destruction) of mid- to late-1970s Dodge Monacos and Plymouth Furys. A few were also used in early episodes of the 1980s show T. J. Hooker. The title character of the cop show Hunter drove a hunter-green '78 Monaco. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiarthurhu ( talk) Revision as of 22:29, August 7, 2006
How's that for a simple guideline?? -- matador300 02:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
If I buy it, can I mention it in the article?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiarthurhu ( talk) Revision as of 17:12, August 9, 2006
The Matador Coupe never had roll-down quarter windows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.251.114 ( talk) 10:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
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