![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
I'm confused about the legality of semi-automatics. Is it legal to import semi-automatic weapons? If it is then I can assemble them in the US? -- Gbleem 00:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to whomever changed the legality section. Is it legal to import semi-automatic versions? If it is then the 10 part rule would not apply? -- Gbleem 17:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
What about semi-auto burst? Dudtz 9/22/06 5:30 PM EST
What if I had a federal weapons permit or tax stamp? Dudtz 9/25/06 6:24 PM EST
A fully automatic AK-47 can be legally purchased provided that the individual has proper licensing and such. Also, high capacity magazines and other goodies(bayonet lug, folding stock, etc.) are perfectly legal in most states. Bald Chihuahua
From the article:
Since I'm curious, and I'm sure others are too, which Italian designs? Links or at least names would be helpfull. WegianWarrior 05:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Generally lighter than WWII auto-loading rifles? I guess I'll have to look that one up; I thought most 1940s semi-automatics were a little under 10 pounds (Kalashnikov, Garand, Walther G 43, the early Soviets). I think there is a misconception that submachineguns are lighter than assault rifles, which are lighter than battle rifles; if you compare weapons from the same era, you'll usually find little weight difference (Thompsons similar in weight to Garands; MAC-10s similar in weight to CAR-15s, etc.) Boris B 18:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
There are duplicate sentences in this and the next section. L
Yes, a large part of AK-47#Design_background is repeated almost word for word in AK-47#Receiver_development_history, surprised it got overlooked in feature article nomination. Vespine 04:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, according to Jane's Guns Recognition Guide, the Tokarev SVT-38 weighs 3.95 kg, the Garand M1 weighs 4.3 kg, the M1 Carbine weighs 2.36 kg, the Simonov SKS weighs 3.86 kg, the Ljungman AG42 weighs 4.71 kg, and I couldn't find the Walther or Mauser sniper rifles ('41 / '43). Among selective-fire weapons, the MP 43 (Sturmgewehr 44) weighs 5.22 kg, the Simonov AVS-36 weighs 4.4 kg, the Rheinmetall FG 42 weighs 4.5 kg, and the Browning Automatic Rifle weighs 7.28 kg (although Jane's considers the latter a machinegun); I assume the M2 carbine is similar in weight to the M1. The AK-47 itself is reported at 4.3 kg. I'll do the edit. Boris B 18:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
What's that about the SVT40. The SVT40 is, just like a Garand or G43, a semi-automatic rifle and nothing more. It shares none of the features that make an assualt rifle: It's not select-fire, it's not chambered for an intermediate cartridge and it does not have the typical in-line stock layout with a seperate pistol grip that all modern assault rifles share. It really doesn't belong there as it's just confusing the reader. If anything that should be the Fedorov design of 1910. ClydeFrog 4 August 2006
The order to enter service was of 1949, not 1951. The document in question is the Decision of Soviet of Ministers of the USSR number 2611-1033ss of 18.06.1949 (AK has entered service) and the Order of the Ministry of Defense number 0086 of 29.06.1949 (AK was announced in the army) -- jno 10:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
This article seems to want to affirm the accuracy of the AK so much that it ends up being somewhat confusing. It argues that although the gun's moving parts are designed with loose tolerances, this does not incur an accuracy penalty. Strictly speaking, this is not possible; all things being equal, accurate guns are accurate because their parts are more precisely machined and constructed. If the AK's construction were made more precise it invariably would be more accurate. It is true however, that the AK was not designed for long-distance combat and so very high accuracy was not a goal of its design. It is AS ACCURATE AS IT NEEDS TO BE. But let's not say that its loose tolerances do not hamper accurracy; that is not true. Geminatea 00:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I have to say that in my use of the AK,the main factor in accurate fire has always been the poor sights that they have,when upgraded sights are installed,first round hits with crappy chinese ammo at 200yds+ on a head size target were easy.I must be clear that the rifle in question was a chinese Mak90 of questionable quality that I owned,I think I paid US139 for it and abused it on a regular basis.Having said all that,with a good sighting system and no other work it was a good shooter out to 300yrds. Safn1949 22:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I've been following this discussion with interest. What concerns me is the "Effective range" field in the data table. It is incorrect to confuse accuracy with effective range, but what is and what should this figure be based on? Maximum theoretical distance bullet will travel if fired at optimum trajectory? (Several miles). Maximum theoretical distance bullet will travel at supersonic velocity? (possibly >1000yds). Maximum distance average American gun enthusiast can hit human-sized target? (300yds). Maximum distance average sub-saharan African militiaman can hit human sized target? (~30yds). We need a non-subjective yardstick to base these figures on. -- Admbws 15:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
The US military defines "effective range" as the shorter of these two: the distance at which the round will retain 60 ft/lb of impact energy OR the longest range that a round fired by an excellent rifleman has a > 50% chance of landing in a 20 inch circle (size the military uses for an "average" torso target). For an M16 (mechanical/inherent accuracy of 1-2 minutes of angle) this is 500m--although match shooters can make decent hits at 1km with a specialized, sub-moa rifle. For an AK, with an inherent accuracy of 2-6moa depending on manufacture, 250-300m is the accepted figure. Of course, a trooper in most military organizations using the AK, to say nothing of a terrorist, is nowhere near as good a marksman as a US Marine or soldier, so in reality the effective range in their hands is probably much shorter.
I added a link to my ak-47 discussion board, it was deleted - a link to www.ak-47.net remains. www.ak-47.net is a commercial site, if my link was removed, I ask that the link to ak-47.net also be removed. The link to my site displayed one (1) google banner at the top, ak-47.net has 5 banners on the first page. Please allow me to re-add my link, or please remove the link to ak-47.net. - -- 21kev 17:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Does wikipedia have a section explaining the qualifications a site needs to be listed in the external links? Asams, can you point me to the guidelines so I may read them? -- 21kev 21:32, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
One link is not worth aruging about, I withdraw request to be listed in this topic. Have a nice day :).-- 21kev 21:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
You thinks at I are a racist when a sey at Ak-47 use by black people in africa but it not rasism, it is the truth. Go in at google.se and look. Killerman2 06:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Regarding Killerman2's comment here: huh? Am I supposed to understand what is being said here?-- Raulpascal 15:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused about the legality of semi-automatics. Is it legal to import semi-automatic weapons? If it is then I can assemble them in the US? -- Gbleem 00:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to whomever changed the legality section. Is it legal to import semi-automatic versions? If it is then the 10 part rule would not apply? -- Gbleem 17:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
What about semi-auto burst? Dudtz 9/22/06 5:30 PM EST
What if I had a federal weapons permit or tax stamp? Dudtz 9/25/06 6:24 PM EST
A fully automatic AK-47 can be legally purchased provided that the individual has proper licensing and such. Also, high capacity magazines and other goodies(bayonet lug, folding stock, etc.) are perfectly legal in most states. Bald Chihuahua
From the article:
Since I'm curious, and I'm sure others are too, which Italian designs? Links or at least names would be helpfull. WegianWarrior 05:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Generally lighter than WWII auto-loading rifles? I guess I'll have to look that one up; I thought most 1940s semi-automatics were a little under 10 pounds (Kalashnikov, Garand, Walther G 43, the early Soviets). I think there is a misconception that submachineguns are lighter than assault rifles, which are lighter than battle rifles; if you compare weapons from the same era, you'll usually find little weight difference (Thompsons similar in weight to Garands; MAC-10s similar in weight to CAR-15s, etc.) Boris B 18:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
There are duplicate sentences in this and the next section. L
Yes, a large part of AK-47#Design_background is repeated almost word for word in AK-47#Receiver_development_history, surprised it got overlooked in feature article nomination. Vespine 04:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, according to Jane's Guns Recognition Guide, the Tokarev SVT-38 weighs 3.95 kg, the Garand M1 weighs 4.3 kg, the M1 Carbine weighs 2.36 kg, the Simonov SKS weighs 3.86 kg, the Ljungman AG42 weighs 4.71 kg, and I couldn't find the Walther or Mauser sniper rifles ('41 / '43). Among selective-fire weapons, the MP 43 (Sturmgewehr 44) weighs 5.22 kg, the Simonov AVS-36 weighs 4.4 kg, the Rheinmetall FG 42 weighs 4.5 kg, and the Browning Automatic Rifle weighs 7.28 kg (although Jane's considers the latter a machinegun); I assume the M2 carbine is similar in weight to the M1. The AK-47 itself is reported at 4.3 kg. I'll do the edit. Boris B 18:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
What's that about the SVT40. The SVT40 is, just like a Garand or G43, a semi-automatic rifle and nothing more. It shares none of the features that make an assualt rifle: It's not select-fire, it's not chambered for an intermediate cartridge and it does not have the typical in-line stock layout with a seperate pistol grip that all modern assault rifles share. It really doesn't belong there as it's just confusing the reader. If anything that should be the Fedorov design of 1910. ClydeFrog 4 August 2006
The order to enter service was of 1949, not 1951. The document in question is the Decision of Soviet of Ministers of the USSR number 2611-1033ss of 18.06.1949 (AK has entered service) and the Order of the Ministry of Defense number 0086 of 29.06.1949 (AK was announced in the army) -- jno 10:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
I'm confused about the legality of semi-automatics. Is it legal to import semi-automatic weapons? If it is then I can assemble them in the US? -- Gbleem 00:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to whomever changed the legality section. Is it legal to import semi-automatic versions? If it is then the 10 part rule would not apply? -- Gbleem 17:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
What about semi-auto burst? Dudtz 9/22/06 5:30 PM EST
What if I had a federal weapons permit or tax stamp? Dudtz 9/25/06 6:24 PM EST
A fully automatic AK-47 can be legally purchased provided that the individual has proper licensing and such. Also, high capacity magazines and other goodies(bayonet lug, folding stock, etc.) are perfectly legal in most states. Bald Chihuahua
From the article:
Since I'm curious, and I'm sure others are too, which Italian designs? Links or at least names would be helpfull. WegianWarrior 05:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Generally lighter than WWII auto-loading rifles? I guess I'll have to look that one up; I thought most 1940s semi-automatics were a little under 10 pounds (Kalashnikov, Garand, Walther G 43, the early Soviets). I think there is a misconception that submachineguns are lighter than assault rifles, which are lighter than battle rifles; if you compare weapons from the same era, you'll usually find little weight difference (Thompsons similar in weight to Garands; MAC-10s similar in weight to CAR-15s, etc.) Boris B 18:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
There are duplicate sentences in this and the next section. L
Yes, a large part of AK-47#Design_background is repeated almost word for word in AK-47#Receiver_development_history, surprised it got overlooked in feature article nomination. Vespine 04:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, according to Jane's Guns Recognition Guide, the Tokarev SVT-38 weighs 3.95 kg, the Garand M1 weighs 4.3 kg, the M1 Carbine weighs 2.36 kg, the Simonov SKS weighs 3.86 kg, the Ljungman AG42 weighs 4.71 kg, and I couldn't find the Walther or Mauser sniper rifles ('41 / '43). Among selective-fire weapons, the MP 43 (Sturmgewehr 44) weighs 5.22 kg, the Simonov AVS-36 weighs 4.4 kg, the Rheinmetall FG 42 weighs 4.5 kg, and the Browning Automatic Rifle weighs 7.28 kg (although Jane's considers the latter a machinegun); I assume the M2 carbine is similar in weight to the M1. The AK-47 itself is reported at 4.3 kg. I'll do the edit. Boris B 18:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
What's that about the SVT40. The SVT40 is, just like a Garand or G43, a semi-automatic rifle and nothing more. It shares none of the features that make an assualt rifle: It's not select-fire, it's not chambered for an intermediate cartridge and it does not have the typical in-line stock layout with a seperate pistol grip that all modern assault rifles share. It really doesn't belong there as it's just confusing the reader. If anything that should be the Fedorov design of 1910. ClydeFrog 4 August 2006
The order to enter service was of 1949, not 1951. The document in question is the Decision of Soviet of Ministers of the USSR number 2611-1033ss of 18.06.1949 (AK has entered service) and the Order of the Ministry of Defense number 0086 of 29.06.1949 (AK was announced in the army) -- jno 10:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
This article seems to want to affirm the accuracy of the AK so much that it ends up being somewhat confusing. It argues that although the gun's moving parts are designed with loose tolerances, this does not incur an accuracy penalty. Strictly speaking, this is not possible; all things being equal, accurate guns are accurate because their parts are more precisely machined and constructed. If the AK's construction were made more precise it invariably would be more accurate. It is true however, that the AK was not designed for long-distance combat and so very high accuracy was not a goal of its design. It is AS ACCURATE AS IT NEEDS TO BE. But let's not say that its loose tolerances do not hamper accurracy; that is not true. Geminatea 00:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I have to say that in my use of the AK,the main factor in accurate fire has always been the poor sights that they have,when upgraded sights are installed,first round hits with crappy chinese ammo at 200yds+ on a head size target were easy.I must be clear that the rifle in question was a chinese Mak90 of questionable quality that I owned,I think I paid US139 for it and abused it on a regular basis.Having said all that,with a good sighting system and no other work it was a good shooter out to 300yrds. Safn1949 22:02, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I've been following this discussion with interest. What concerns me is the "Effective range" field in the data table. It is incorrect to confuse accuracy with effective range, but what is and what should this figure be based on? Maximum theoretical distance bullet will travel if fired at optimum trajectory? (Several miles). Maximum theoretical distance bullet will travel at supersonic velocity? (possibly >1000yds). Maximum distance average American gun enthusiast can hit human-sized target? (300yds). Maximum distance average sub-saharan African militiaman can hit human sized target? (~30yds). We need a non-subjective yardstick to base these figures on. -- Admbws 15:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
The US military defines "effective range" as the shorter of these two: the distance at which the round will retain 60 ft/lb of impact energy OR the longest range that a round fired by an excellent rifleman has a > 50% chance of landing in a 20 inch circle (size the military uses for an "average" torso target). For an M16 (mechanical/inherent accuracy of 1-2 minutes of angle) this is 500m--although match shooters can make decent hits at 1km with a specialized, sub-moa rifle. For an AK, with an inherent accuracy of 2-6moa depending on manufacture, 250-300m is the accepted figure. Of course, a trooper in most military organizations using the AK, to say nothing of a terrorist, is nowhere near as good a marksman as a US Marine or soldier, so in reality the effective range in their hands is probably much shorter.
I added a link to my ak-47 discussion board, it was deleted - a link to www.ak-47.net remains. www.ak-47.net is a commercial site, if my link was removed, I ask that the link to ak-47.net also be removed. The link to my site displayed one (1) google banner at the top, ak-47.net has 5 banners on the first page. Please allow me to re-add my link, or please remove the link to ak-47.net. - -- 21kev 17:22, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Does wikipedia have a section explaining the qualifications a site needs to be listed in the external links? Asams, can you point me to the guidelines so I may read them? -- 21kev 21:32, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
One link is not worth aruging about, I withdraw request to be listed in this topic. Have a nice day :).-- 21kev 21:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
You thinks at I are a racist when a sey at Ak-47 use by black people in africa but it not rasism, it is the truth. Go in at google.se and look. Killerman2 06:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Regarding Killerman2's comment here: huh? Am I supposed to understand what is being said here?-- Raulpascal 15:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused about the legality of semi-automatics. Is it legal to import semi-automatic weapons? If it is then I can assemble them in the US? -- Gbleem 00:55, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks to whomever changed the legality section. Is it legal to import semi-automatic versions? If it is then the 10 part rule would not apply? -- Gbleem 17:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
What about semi-auto burst? Dudtz 9/22/06 5:30 PM EST
What if I had a federal weapons permit or tax stamp? Dudtz 9/25/06 6:24 PM EST
A fully automatic AK-47 can be legally purchased provided that the individual has proper licensing and such. Also, high capacity magazines and other goodies(bayonet lug, folding stock, etc.) are perfectly legal in most states. Bald Chihuahua
From the article:
Since I'm curious, and I'm sure others are too, which Italian designs? Links or at least names would be helpfull. WegianWarrior 05:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Generally lighter than WWII auto-loading rifles? I guess I'll have to look that one up; I thought most 1940s semi-automatics were a little under 10 pounds (Kalashnikov, Garand, Walther G 43, the early Soviets). I think there is a misconception that submachineguns are lighter than assault rifles, which are lighter than battle rifles; if you compare weapons from the same era, you'll usually find little weight difference (Thompsons similar in weight to Garands; MAC-10s similar in weight to CAR-15s, etc.) Boris B 18:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
There are duplicate sentences in this and the next section. L
Yes, a large part of AK-47#Design_background is repeated almost word for word in AK-47#Receiver_development_history, surprised it got overlooked in feature article nomination. Vespine 04:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, according to Jane's Guns Recognition Guide, the Tokarev SVT-38 weighs 3.95 kg, the Garand M1 weighs 4.3 kg, the M1 Carbine weighs 2.36 kg, the Simonov SKS weighs 3.86 kg, the Ljungman AG42 weighs 4.71 kg, and I couldn't find the Walther or Mauser sniper rifles ('41 / '43). Among selective-fire weapons, the MP 43 (Sturmgewehr 44) weighs 5.22 kg, the Simonov AVS-36 weighs 4.4 kg, the Rheinmetall FG 42 weighs 4.5 kg, and the Browning Automatic Rifle weighs 7.28 kg (although Jane's considers the latter a machinegun); I assume the M2 carbine is similar in weight to the M1. The AK-47 itself is reported at 4.3 kg. I'll do the edit. Boris B 18:51, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
What's that about the SVT40. The SVT40 is, just like a Garand or G43, a semi-automatic rifle and nothing more. It shares none of the features that make an assualt rifle: It's not select-fire, it's not chambered for an intermediate cartridge and it does not have the typical in-line stock layout with a seperate pistol grip that all modern assault rifles share. It really doesn't belong there as it's just confusing the reader. If anything that should be the Fedorov design of 1910. ClydeFrog 4 August 2006
The order to enter service was of 1949, not 1951. The document in question is the Decision of Soviet of Ministers of the USSR number 2611-1033ss of 18.06.1949 (AK has entered service) and the Order of the Ministry of Defense number 0086 of 29.06.1949 (AK was announced in the army) -- jno 10:16, 11 August 2006 (UTC)