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The result of the move request was: No consensus to move; there's no agreement that the proposed is the common name for the subject. Cúchullain t/ c 15:44, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Aćif Hadžiahmetović → Aqif Bluta – Per the sources:
(unindent)How Antidiskriminator came to launch such accusations against Peacemaker67 using as a starting point my mentioning of Antid.'s reliance to raw google results (which include fb posts) over academia is baffling. That being said, Antid.'s use of the talkpage makes it very hard for unfamiliar users to take part so I do hope that I won't be accused of canvassing admins.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:44, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
According to Serb journalist Aida Corovi, Bluta was awarded the Iron Cross. I've attributed the claim to her, given that it's a quite extraordinary claim that I couldn't find in other sources. Given the fact that extraordinary claims (a WWII Iron Cross medal in this case) require extraordinary sources should it be mentioned as a hypothesis of the journalist or be removed until scholarly sources are found?-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk
(unindent)I wouldn't say that there's a specific range of sources, but Miletic is somewhat reliable although we should quote him directly.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:34, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello! Why have my changes been undone by User:ZjarriRrethues? His/her changes to what I have written render the article somewhat indeterminate and ambiguous to the uninformed reader.
Firstly, I slightly edited the introduction, in order to make it clear what type of rule we are talking about. Stating that he was mayor under "the German Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia" is a bit obscure and not how occupations by the Nazi army are usually referred to. The introduction should give a clear and concise idea about the historical context in question to readers of all levels of knowledge of World War II.
Secondly, writing that the "movemenet" of 221 Jews to a concentration camp was "allowed" is a euphemism that relativises the fact that these people were imprisoned and then deported there to be killed, and I personally do not think that any reference to such horrible events needs to be "softened".
Thirdly, not providing any information about who Aida Corovic is makes it sound like the statement was given by an anonymous person. There is nothing controversial about the fact that she is a civil rights activist from Novi Pazar - that is what she does and where she is from, and it provides important information about the standpoint she is commenting from. I deleted the "Serbian" tag as I am not sure she would comply with that, and since I am not sure with whether she would call herself "Bosniak" either, I feel it is best to evade reference to her nationality altogether.
As for using "considered" instead of "treated", I feel the term "treated" is better suited, because it implies that the Yugoslav army had the same procedure for all those who collaborated with the Axis powers, and that was - execution, no questions asked.
All the best, DigDogMarley ( talk) 19:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
FFS? Is that a source of some sort? :) I never wrote that he was "complicit in the Holocaust", nor have I even mentioned the Holocaust or his legal responsibility, precisely because, like you, I am not a legal expert. However, the person in question voluntarily stepped forth to collaborate with the Germans for the purpose of regional interests, namely the establishment of a Greater Albania that would also include Novi Pazar (which I will add into the body of the article now). During his collaboration, among other things, the elimination of all living Jews on his territory took place. Therefore, we are talking about a voluntary collaboration during which grave human rights abuses took place and were facilitated by the collaborationist officials (for eg. compiling the list of Jews and other undesirables, locating, imprisoning and handing them over to German officials, etc.). WHAT might have taken place had he decided to protest or resist is in the realm of the unknown, so it is futile to deem him not responsible on the basis of a guess what might or might not have happened. Perhaps I can, then, also ask a rhetorical question - what would have happened had NO ONE in all the world collaborated with the Nazis but instead, resisted? What would have happened if all of Hitler's generals decided not to follow orders (their main line of defense in the Nuremberg trials, btw, and no, I am not trying to compare Acif to Eichmann), and hence "risk being shot, replaced, or whatever suited Hitler's purposes at the time?" All the best, DigDogMarley ( talk) 13:17, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
How is it relevant what articles I edit or whether I am new or not? I will edit articles that I have reliable first hand sources for. This is something I have sources for. What is the problem? Honeslty, I don't even get why we are having a discussion. Thank you for welcoming me. Cheers DigDogMarley ( talk) 14:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
I have plenty of sources that he was albanian why do you delete them? Kadribistrica ( talk) 08:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Ok i understand now about the name wont change it . But his ethnicity if i can find references can i put it in the articel???And would u delete it?? Kadribistrica ( talk) 11:06, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Reference that he was albanian. Can i use it peacemaker?? Kadribistrica ( talk) 12:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
References
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Aćif Hadžiahmetović article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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The result of the move request was: No consensus to move; there's no agreement that the proposed is the common name for the subject. Cúchullain t/ c 15:44, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Aćif Hadžiahmetović → Aqif Bluta – Per the sources:
(unindent)How Antidiskriminator came to launch such accusations against Peacemaker67 using as a starting point my mentioning of Antid.'s reliance to raw google results (which include fb posts) over academia is baffling. That being said, Antid.'s use of the talkpage makes it very hard for unfamiliar users to take part so I do hope that I won't be accused of canvassing admins.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:44, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
According to Serb journalist Aida Corovi, Bluta was awarded the Iron Cross. I've attributed the claim to her, given that it's a quite extraordinary claim that I couldn't find in other sources. Given the fact that extraordinary claims (a WWII Iron Cross medal in this case) require extraordinary sources should it be mentioned as a hypothesis of the journalist or be removed until scholarly sources are found?-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk
(unindent)I wouldn't say that there's a specific range of sources, but Miletic is somewhat reliable although we should quote him directly.-- — ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:34, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Hello! Why have my changes been undone by User:ZjarriRrethues? His/her changes to what I have written render the article somewhat indeterminate and ambiguous to the uninformed reader.
Firstly, I slightly edited the introduction, in order to make it clear what type of rule we are talking about. Stating that he was mayor under "the German Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia" is a bit obscure and not how occupations by the Nazi army are usually referred to. The introduction should give a clear and concise idea about the historical context in question to readers of all levels of knowledge of World War II.
Secondly, writing that the "movemenet" of 221 Jews to a concentration camp was "allowed" is a euphemism that relativises the fact that these people were imprisoned and then deported there to be killed, and I personally do not think that any reference to such horrible events needs to be "softened".
Thirdly, not providing any information about who Aida Corovic is makes it sound like the statement was given by an anonymous person. There is nothing controversial about the fact that she is a civil rights activist from Novi Pazar - that is what she does and where she is from, and it provides important information about the standpoint she is commenting from. I deleted the "Serbian" tag as I am not sure she would comply with that, and since I am not sure with whether she would call herself "Bosniak" either, I feel it is best to evade reference to her nationality altogether.
As for using "considered" instead of "treated", I feel the term "treated" is better suited, because it implies that the Yugoslav army had the same procedure for all those who collaborated with the Axis powers, and that was - execution, no questions asked.
All the best, DigDogMarley ( talk) 19:48, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
FFS? Is that a source of some sort? :) I never wrote that he was "complicit in the Holocaust", nor have I even mentioned the Holocaust or his legal responsibility, precisely because, like you, I am not a legal expert. However, the person in question voluntarily stepped forth to collaborate with the Germans for the purpose of regional interests, namely the establishment of a Greater Albania that would also include Novi Pazar (which I will add into the body of the article now). During his collaboration, among other things, the elimination of all living Jews on his territory took place. Therefore, we are talking about a voluntary collaboration during which grave human rights abuses took place and were facilitated by the collaborationist officials (for eg. compiling the list of Jews and other undesirables, locating, imprisoning and handing them over to German officials, etc.). WHAT might have taken place had he decided to protest or resist is in the realm of the unknown, so it is futile to deem him not responsible on the basis of a guess what might or might not have happened. Perhaps I can, then, also ask a rhetorical question - what would have happened had NO ONE in all the world collaborated with the Nazis but instead, resisted? What would have happened if all of Hitler's generals decided not to follow orders (their main line of defense in the Nuremberg trials, btw, and no, I am not trying to compare Acif to Eichmann), and hence "risk being shot, replaced, or whatever suited Hitler's purposes at the time?" All the best, DigDogMarley ( talk) 13:17, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
How is it relevant what articles I edit or whether I am new or not? I will edit articles that I have reliable first hand sources for. This is something I have sources for. What is the problem? Honeslty, I don't even get why we are having a discussion. Thank you for welcoming me. Cheers DigDogMarley ( talk) 14:15, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
I have plenty of sources that he was albanian why do you delete them? Kadribistrica ( talk) 08:29, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Ok i understand now about the name wont change it . But his ethnicity if i can find references can i put it in the articel???And would u delete it?? Kadribistrica ( talk) 11:06, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
Reference that he was albanian. Can i use it peacemaker?? Kadribistrica ( talk) 12:49, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
References
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Aćif Hadžiahmetović. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:24, 23 October 2016 (UTC)