This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I was looking at on article on The Jerusalem Post today ( http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219218598194&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) and it seems that they copied the first part of this article almost verbatim without attribution:
"The Iskander missile (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone) is a short range, solid fuel propelled, theater quasi-ballistic missile system.
The system is intended to use conventional warheads for the engagement of small and area targets, such as hostile fire weapons (missile systems, multiple launch rocket systems, long-range artillery pieces), air and antimissile defence weapons, especially those located in relatively fixed sites, command posts and communications nodes, critical civilian infrastructure facilities and other vital small and area targets. " PBP ( talk) 18:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the following passage: "If deployed in Kaliningrad the Iskander missile will be able to strike against many european countrys. Both Germany and Sweden could in theory be attacked."
I think it violates NPOV. Every weapon in the world could in theory be used against an arbitrary number of countries. Still, we do not list all those countries in the corresponding weapon articles, and this weapon should not be different. Offliner ( talk) 15:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
The sources given do not state that Iskander violates the treaty. Also, here is a source which says Iskander probably does not violate the treaty [1]: "The operational requirements for the SS-26 are probably similar to those of the original SS-23. One of the major questions concerning the program is the missile's range, which is almost certainly less than the 500 km range limit established by the INF Treaty." Offliner ( talk) 09:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Plus, we do not know if the extension is intended to go up to 500 km or 499 km (come to think of it, one kilometer less in range probably isn't a big loss if that keeps the missile inside the treaty limits.) What the sources also do not say is if the treaty is violated when the range is exactly 500 km or when its > 500 km. Offliner ( talk) 09:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
"The flight range of a new cruise missile (he mean a reentry vehicle) adapted for Iskander and successfully tested in May 2007 could exceed 500 km (310 miles)." [2] This test is already a INF violation!-- HDP ( talk) 09:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
I think we should try to convert the embedded lists in "characteristics" to normal prose (without losing critical information.) Does anyone agree/disagree? Offliner ( talk) 18:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
In what way is the Georgian claim that the missile was used against civilian targets and the oil pipeline relevant to the missile itself? Note, that we do not usually include politics or "blame game" in the "combat history" sections of weapons articles. For example, the F/A-18 Hornet article says that it was used in Operation Enduring Freedom - but does not include claims made by various parties, that the aircraft was used to bomb wedding parties and other civilian targets. Offliner ( talk) 15:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
So what the Georgian article is telling me is that an Iskander, that according to the Moscow Defense Brief hit two military targets out of two military targets, that according to most scholarly opinions, including NATO's, is a top notch missile, cannot hit a stationary target that is the oil pipeline? Are you serious? If the Iskander had actually missed a stationary target, the Russian rocket forces would be screwed, and NATO would have hundreds of articles on this issue. Seriously, some claims here are the greatest works of fiction. What's next, Saakashvili arguing that 2 + 2 = 5? I want more then just one Georgian Link, confirming that the Iskander was launched at the oil pipeline. HistoricWarrior007 ( talk) 04:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Kober, are you going to counter-argue any of the above posts? HistoricWarrior007 ( talk) 20:51, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
I just want to know why Iran is listed as an operator with the description bought from Belarus as the reason why when Belarus is listed as a potential future operator and is known not to currently possess Iskanders. If the situation has changed please update this article otherwise I think we can remove Iran from the list or downgrade them to potential future operators 81.132.142.2 ( talk) 12:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
December 10, 2012 "Hours after NATO agreed on Tuesday to send Patriot missiles to Turkey because of the crisis in Syria, Russia delivered its first shipment of Iskander missiles to Syria." Link: [3] Ratipok ( talk) 18:43, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev just said on national television that he intend to put missles again in Kaliningrad if NATO doesn't back with the missile defense system. I think someone should add it at the end of the section "Deployment and combat history". (I am a non native english speaker so I don't feel ready to the task) source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eBf0I-rB0m0 (Kremlin youtube channel) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.68.238 ( talk) 06:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
http://expert.ru/2014/04/27/doigraetes____do-iskanderov/?mml 2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.105.158.243 ( talk) 15:24, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
The statement that this system's intended targets included critical civilian infrastructure seems pretty POV-ish and is uncited. 31.18.251.194 ( talk) 10:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
BlackFlanker Please stop adding unsourced content. This contravenes Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. The sources provided are misleading and have no relation to the content. Unless you provide reliable sources for the content, it will be removed. Sources from social media accounts & blogs (ex: livejournal) are not considered reliable sources, for more info read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Further discussions shall be held in the talk page. - AHMED XIV ( talk) 18:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Warning: Persistent disruptive editing by BlackFlanker. He continues to add content with unreliable sources from blogs, social network tweets without any regard to Verifiability. It would be great if you look into this and take administrative action. BilCat DrKay Llammakey Steelpillow Buckshot06
- AHMED XIV ( talk) 18:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Don't waste your talkpage space, either of you. The situation is ambiguous. BlackFlanker, find us a better link to the Algerian DSI magazine. Otherwise, I'll call in another senior Milhister and we can go with their opinion. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
For some reason I can't do it myself. Penza is in the Volga region, not Ural. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew CPSK 65 ( talk • contribs) 17:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The Description starts: "The Iskander ballistic missile is superior to its predecessor, the Oka." There is no expansion of this, and the Oka is already referenced in an earlier section. Either the sentence should be struck as superfluous and possibly a violation of NPOV, or expanded to compare the characteristics of the two missiles (and probably moved to after the description of the main subject, the Iskander). NelC ( talk) 14:39, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request to
9K720 Iskander has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"Los Angels Times" = "Los Angeles Times" 2605:E000:1301:4462:B05A:29BC:45B1:8D4 ( talk) 19:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
At the end of the history section R-500 is called SSC-8. In the Iskander-K section R-500 is called SSC-7 (9M728) with the designation SSC-8 used for 9M729. The relation of these two missiles with strongly differing ranges (but there are strong range differences among the Kalibr/Club missiles too according to that article) to other missiles seems confusing.
According to the description section the maximum power of the nuclear warhead is 50 kt which may be reasonable for a tactical missile. According to the front page facts it would have a thermonuclear warhead, but aren't these typically too large for a tactical weapon?
At the end of the variants section it is stated that there are 7 types of missiles for both (K & M) variants of the system but only 3 missiles (9M723 (+9M723K1) 9M728 and 9M729) are listed plus 6 different types of warheads for 9M723. 150.227.15.253 ( talk) 21:37, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
"The road-mobile Iskander was the second attempt by Russia to replace the Scud missile" Wasn't the Oka the second attempt to replace it? What was the first? Maury Markowitz ( talk) 13:50, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Dear administratoros, I would like to bring you your information into the facts of the use of Iskander complexes, which will clarify the issue as a whole. The GlobalSecurity.org analitic Joseph Trevithick say about using Iskander also cites a video as confirmation of his words, here: [1], [2]. Also Colonel-General Movses Hakobyan told reporters Thursday in Armenia’s capital, Yerevan, after he had stood down as head of the Defense Ministry’s military control service the short-range missile, which has been fired only rarely in combat, “was used during the war though I will not say where,”. Russia also delivered military supplies to Armenia during the fighting “as much as their conscience allowed,” he said. here: [3], [4]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuxbani ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
References
should be read "daily" 109.252.118.194 ( talk) 12:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Three should be added: the Russo-Ukrainian war. Wiki Jonathan2 ( talk) 13:49, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
The entry for operational range in the infobox looks weird: "50 km (31 mi)-400–500 km (250–310 mi) for Iskander-M". ehn ( talk) 09:24, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Media in Ukraine and Poland report deployment of Iskander-M in northern Crimea https://en.thepage.ua/news/enemy-deploys-four-additional-iskander-m-launchers-in-crimea-defense-ministry-or Not sure if that's good enough source to insert. Thelisteninghand ( talk) 21:58, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Ukraine estimate about 780 Iskanders have been used by Nov 2022, of the estimated 900 that Russia had in Feb 2022. [4] - Rod57 ( talk) 13:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
"Specifications" in infobox, (eg mass, engine) presumably relate to the original missiles used (not the launcher vehicle). Can we clarify, and identify the specific missile ? - Rod57 ( talk) 11:55, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to fix this, but the link in the third to last paragraph of the "Design" section has a multi-language link to an article about the R-500 Cruise Missile. The link to the Russian page is correct, but the link to the English page points to an article about an American Radial Engine. Can someone fix that link? Cmdrraimus ( talk) 07:59, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
"However, it has been claimed (though controversially) that the Kinzhal, a closely related missile to the Iskander, had destroyed a number of Patriot missile systems."
This is clearly Russian disinformation that should be removed (I am unable to remove it because of semi-protection). Firstly, this information is not relevant for the Iskander article. Secondly, only one Patriot system received "minor damage" ( https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-damage-us-made-patriot-system-ukraine-minor-fixed-pentagon-2023-5). KoenigseggOne1 ( talk) 19:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
on gallery. 2nd image 2603:8081:8AF0:87B0:2224:A9F2:8783:5060 ( talk) 04:35, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I was looking at on article on The Jerusalem Post today ( http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1219218598194&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull) and it seems that they copied the first part of this article almost verbatim without attribution:
"The Iskander missile (NATO reporting name SS-26 Stone) is a short range, solid fuel propelled, theater quasi-ballistic missile system.
The system is intended to use conventional warheads for the engagement of small and area targets, such as hostile fire weapons (missile systems, multiple launch rocket systems, long-range artillery pieces), air and antimissile defence weapons, especially those located in relatively fixed sites, command posts and communications nodes, critical civilian infrastructure facilities and other vital small and area targets. " PBP ( talk) 18:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the following passage: "If deployed in Kaliningrad the Iskander missile will be able to strike against many european countrys. Both Germany and Sweden could in theory be attacked."
I think it violates NPOV. Every weapon in the world could in theory be used against an arbitrary number of countries. Still, we do not list all those countries in the corresponding weapon articles, and this weapon should not be different. Offliner ( talk) 15:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
The sources given do not state that Iskander violates the treaty. Also, here is a source which says Iskander probably does not violate the treaty [1]: "The operational requirements for the SS-26 are probably similar to those of the original SS-23. One of the major questions concerning the program is the missile's range, which is almost certainly less than the 500 km range limit established by the INF Treaty." Offliner ( talk) 09:19, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
Plus, we do not know if the extension is intended to go up to 500 km or 499 km (come to think of it, one kilometer less in range probably isn't a big loss if that keeps the missile inside the treaty limits.) What the sources also do not say is if the treaty is violated when the range is exactly 500 km or when its > 500 km. Offliner ( talk) 09:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
"The flight range of a new cruise missile (he mean a reentry vehicle) adapted for Iskander and successfully tested in May 2007 could exceed 500 km (310 miles)." [2] This test is already a INF violation!-- HDP ( talk) 09:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
I think we should try to convert the embedded lists in "characteristics" to normal prose (without losing critical information.) Does anyone agree/disagree? Offliner ( talk) 18:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
In what way is the Georgian claim that the missile was used against civilian targets and the oil pipeline relevant to the missile itself? Note, that we do not usually include politics or "blame game" in the "combat history" sections of weapons articles. For example, the F/A-18 Hornet article says that it was used in Operation Enduring Freedom - but does not include claims made by various parties, that the aircraft was used to bomb wedding parties and other civilian targets. Offliner ( talk) 15:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
So what the Georgian article is telling me is that an Iskander, that according to the Moscow Defense Brief hit two military targets out of two military targets, that according to most scholarly opinions, including NATO's, is a top notch missile, cannot hit a stationary target that is the oil pipeline? Are you serious? If the Iskander had actually missed a stationary target, the Russian rocket forces would be screwed, and NATO would have hundreds of articles on this issue. Seriously, some claims here are the greatest works of fiction. What's next, Saakashvili arguing that 2 + 2 = 5? I want more then just one Georgian Link, confirming that the Iskander was launched at the oil pipeline. HistoricWarrior007 ( talk) 04:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Kober, are you going to counter-argue any of the above posts? HistoricWarrior007 ( talk) 20:51, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
I just want to know why Iran is listed as an operator with the description bought from Belarus as the reason why when Belarus is listed as a potential future operator and is known not to currently possess Iskanders. If the situation has changed please update this article otherwise I think we can remove Iran from the list or downgrade them to potential future operators 81.132.142.2 ( talk) 12:44, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
December 10, 2012 "Hours after NATO agreed on Tuesday to send Patriot missiles to Turkey because of the crisis in Syria, Russia delivered its first shipment of Iskander missiles to Syria." Link: [3] Ratipok ( talk) 18:43, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev just said on national television that he intend to put missles again in Kaliningrad if NATO doesn't back with the missile defense system. I think someone should add it at the end of the section "Deployment and combat history". (I am a non native english speaker so I don't feel ready to the task) source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eBf0I-rB0m0 (Kremlin youtube channel) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.68.238 ( talk) 06:01, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
http://expert.ru/2014/04/27/doigraetes____do-iskanderov/?mml 2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.105.158.243 ( talk) 15:24, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
The statement that this system's intended targets included critical civilian infrastructure seems pretty POV-ish and is uncited. 31.18.251.194 ( talk) 10:44, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
BlackFlanker Please stop adding unsourced content. This contravenes Wikipedia's policy on verifiability. If you continue to do so, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. The sources provided are misleading and have no relation to the content. Unless you provide reliable sources for the content, it will be removed. Sources from social media accounts & blogs (ex: livejournal) are not considered reliable sources, for more info read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. Further discussions shall be held in the talk page. - AHMED XIV ( talk) 18:33, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
Warning: Persistent disruptive editing by BlackFlanker. He continues to add content with unreliable sources from blogs, social network tweets without any regard to Verifiability. It would be great if you look into this and take administrative action. BilCat DrKay Llammakey Steelpillow Buckshot06
- AHMED XIV ( talk) 18:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Don't waste your talkpage space, either of you. The situation is ambiguous. BlackFlanker, find us a better link to the Algerian DSI magazine. Otherwise, I'll call in another senior Milhister and we can go with their opinion. Buckshot06 (talk) 03:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
For some reason I can't do it myself. Penza is in the Volga region, not Ural. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew CPSK 65 ( talk • contribs) 17:22, 2 December 2017 (UTC)
The Description starts: "The Iskander ballistic missile is superior to its predecessor, the Oka." There is no expansion of this, and the Oka is already referenced in an earlier section. Either the sentence should be struck as superfluous and possibly a violation of NPOV, or expanded to compare the characteristics of the two missiles (and probably moved to after the description of the main subject, the Iskander). NelC ( talk) 14:39, 13 March 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request to
9K720 Iskander has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"Los Angels Times" = "Los Angeles Times" 2605:E000:1301:4462:B05A:29BC:45B1:8D4 ( talk) 19:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
At the end of the history section R-500 is called SSC-8. In the Iskander-K section R-500 is called SSC-7 (9M728) with the designation SSC-8 used for 9M729. The relation of these two missiles with strongly differing ranges (but there are strong range differences among the Kalibr/Club missiles too according to that article) to other missiles seems confusing.
According to the description section the maximum power of the nuclear warhead is 50 kt which may be reasonable for a tactical missile. According to the front page facts it would have a thermonuclear warhead, but aren't these typically too large for a tactical weapon?
At the end of the variants section it is stated that there are 7 types of missiles for both (K & M) variants of the system but only 3 missiles (9M723 (+9M723K1) 9M728 and 9M729) are listed plus 6 different types of warheads for 9M723. 150.227.15.253 ( talk) 21:37, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
"The road-mobile Iskander was the second attempt by Russia to replace the Scud missile" Wasn't the Oka the second attempt to replace it? What was the first? Maury Markowitz ( talk) 13:50, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Dear administratoros, I would like to bring you your information into the facts of the use of Iskander complexes, which will clarify the issue as a whole. The GlobalSecurity.org analitic Joseph Trevithick say about using Iskander also cites a video as confirmation of his words, here: [1], [2]. Also Colonel-General Movses Hakobyan told reporters Thursday in Armenia’s capital, Yerevan, after he had stood down as head of the Defense Ministry’s military control service the short-range missile, which has been fired only rarely in combat, “was used during the war though I will not say where,”. Russia also delivered military supplies to Armenia during the fighting “as much as their conscience allowed,” he said. here: [3], [4]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuxbani ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
References
should be read "daily" 109.252.118.194 ( talk) 12:18, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
Three should be added: the Russo-Ukrainian war. Wiki Jonathan2 ( talk) 13:49, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
The entry for operational range in the infobox looks weird: "50 km (31 mi)-400–500 km (250–310 mi) for Iskander-M". ehn ( talk) 09:24, 11 March 2022 (UTC)
Media in Ukraine and Poland report deployment of Iskander-M in northern Crimea https://en.thepage.ua/news/enemy-deploys-four-additional-iskander-m-launchers-in-crimea-defense-ministry-or Not sure if that's good enough source to insert. Thelisteninghand ( talk) 21:58, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
Ukraine estimate about 780 Iskanders have been used by Nov 2022, of the estimated 900 that Russia had in Feb 2022. [4] - Rod57 ( talk) 13:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
"Specifications" in infobox, (eg mass, engine) presumably relate to the original missiles used (not the launcher vehicle). Can we clarify, and identify the specific missile ? - Rod57 ( talk) 11:55, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to fix this, but the link in the third to last paragraph of the "Design" section has a multi-language link to an article about the R-500 Cruise Missile. The link to the Russian page is correct, but the link to the English page points to an article about an American Radial Engine. Can someone fix that link? Cmdrraimus ( talk) 07:59, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
"However, it has been claimed (though controversially) that the Kinzhal, a closely related missile to the Iskander, had destroyed a number of Patriot missile systems."
This is clearly Russian disinformation that should be removed (I am unable to remove it because of semi-protection). Firstly, this information is not relevant for the Iskander article. Secondly, only one Patriot system received "minor damage" ( https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-damage-us-made-patriot-system-ukraine-minor-fixed-pentagon-2023-5). KoenigseggOne1 ( talk) 19:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
on gallery. 2nd image 2603:8081:8AF0:87B0:2224:A9F2:8783:5060 ( talk) 04:35, 4 February 2024 (UTC)