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The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 04:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
51st (Highland) Division (World War I) →
51st (Highland) Division – the disambiguation (World War I) is not required its already disambiguated by using (Highland). No other British or any other divisions use World War I or any other war. It also explains in the text it served in World War I.
There was a Second World War division called the 51st (Highland) Infantry Division which is separate from this by the use of infantry in the title, so it can not be confused for that one. Jim Sweeney ( talk) 21:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
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The history outline differs from that. You should correct the data. -- 129.187.244.28 ( talk) 10:39, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
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It seems unlikely that they were evacuated from Dunkirk and then returned to France, given the timescales involved, if so this must have been very rapid. Reading Dunkirk evacuation it seems that like a significant section of the BEF they were cut off from the main body of the BEF by the German dash to the coast. PatGallacher ( talk) 22:35, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
I have deleted the image of a Highland Division sergeant wearing a kilt in a Maginot line fort in 1940, and the associated text in the article suggesting that "However Imperial War Museum images show the men of the 51st Highland Division wearing kilts while they manned the Maginot Line in France in 1939 and 1940." (bold added).
Firstly, the interpretation of a primary source could be judged to be
WP:OR and does not over-ride the detailed researches of a notable historical writer. Secondly, the other photographs
[1]
[2]
[3] of the Highland Division on the Maginot Line all show soldiers in this unit dressed in the normal battledress of the British Army at the time. Lastly, the photograph that I have deleted is clearly a propaganda photograph of a staged scene. Clues include the collection of rifles with their bayonets fixed inside a concrete bunker - looks wonderfully warlike, but of no real use (in fact, an actual danger) inside the fortifications unless they have been breached by the enemy; and the box for the periscope, with its French stencilling, which is rather awkwardly positioned for the user. I suspect that the sergeant in the photograph was persuaded to borrow a bandsman's kilt.
ThoughtIdRetired (
talk)
14:44, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
The 'HD' flash was adopted by the re-formed 51st Highland Division in 1941-42. Prior to that the divisional formation flash was a St Andrews Cross. JF42 ( talk) 16:46, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Looking at the edit [4] by User:JF42, is this edit based on precise information, or simply on the fact that the officers were sent to a different destination? My understanding of sources is that all the "other ranks" went to Stalag XX in the first instance - though many ended up in other camps once the Germans got their POW arrangements a bit more organised. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 07:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
JF42 ( talk) 12:35, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
" Daylight patrol of the 1/6th Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders ... Troops firing into a dug-out in a deserted German trench to dislodge any remaining Germans."
This photograph has been carelessly captioned, either by IWM or Wikimedia Commons. It is plainly not an action photograph. The one soldier with his rifle vaguely at the ready as he peers into the dug-out entrance is evidently not firing. Not least because a fellow soldier, visible in the entrance, has already entered the dugout and is inspecting the position. JF42 ( talk) 02:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
This article uses Saul David's number of over 10,000 PoWs. In his book David gives no sources for his figure of 10,000. Hugh Sebag-Montefiore in his book "Dunkirk: Fight to The Last Man" cites the Bundesarchive record of 7th Panzer Division from 12 June 1940 RH27-7/220 with a figure of 8,000 British prisoners.
If the number is in doubt and Sebag-Montefiore's number has a source should it be used instead? Brownag ( talk) 23:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Brownag ( talk) 20:27, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa ( talk) 04:21, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
51st (Highland) Division (World War I) →
51st (Highland) Division – the disambiguation (World War I) is not required its already disambiguated by using (Highland). No other British or any other divisions use World War I or any other war. It also explains in the text it served in World War I.
There was a Second World War division called the 51st (Highland) Infantry Division which is separate from this by the use of infantry in the title, so it can not be confused for that one. Jim Sweeney ( talk) 21:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:39, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
The history outline differs from that. You should correct the data. -- 129.187.244.28 ( talk) 10:39, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:57, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
It seems unlikely that they were evacuated from Dunkirk and then returned to France, given the timescales involved, if so this must have been very rapid. Reading Dunkirk evacuation it seems that like a significant section of the BEF they were cut off from the main body of the BEF by the German dash to the coast. PatGallacher ( talk) 22:35, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
I have deleted the image of a Highland Division sergeant wearing a kilt in a Maginot line fort in 1940, and the associated text in the article suggesting that "However Imperial War Museum images show the men of the 51st Highland Division wearing kilts while they manned the Maginot Line in France in 1939 and 1940." (bold added).
Firstly, the interpretation of a primary source could be judged to be
WP:OR and does not over-ride the detailed researches of a notable historical writer. Secondly, the other photographs
[1]
[2]
[3] of the Highland Division on the Maginot Line all show soldiers in this unit dressed in the normal battledress of the British Army at the time. Lastly, the photograph that I have deleted is clearly a propaganda photograph of a staged scene. Clues include the collection of rifles with their bayonets fixed inside a concrete bunker - looks wonderfully warlike, but of no real use (in fact, an actual danger) inside the fortifications unless they have been breached by the enemy; and the box for the periscope, with its French stencilling, which is rather awkwardly positioned for the user. I suspect that the sergeant in the photograph was persuaded to borrow a bandsman's kilt.
ThoughtIdRetired (
talk)
14:44, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
The 'HD' flash was adopted by the re-formed 51st Highland Division in 1941-42. Prior to that the divisional formation flash was a St Andrews Cross. JF42 ( talk) 16:46, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Looking at the edit [4] by User:JF42, is this edit based on precise information, or simply on the fact that the officers were sent to a different destination? My understanding of sources is that all the "other ranks" went to Stalag XX in the first instance - though many ended up in other camps once the Germans got their POW arrangements a bit more organised. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 07:23, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
JF42 ( talk) 12:35, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
" Daylight patrol of the 1/6th Battalion, Seaforth Highlanders ... Troops firing into a dug-out in a deserted German trench to dislodge any remaining Germans."
This photograph has been carelessly captioned, either by IWM or Wikimedia Commons. It is plainly not an action photograph. The one soldier with his rifle vaguely at the ready as he peers into the dug-out entrance is evidently not firing. Not least because a fellow soldier, visible in the entrance, has already entered the dugout and is inspecting the position. JF42 ( talk) 02:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
This article uses Saul David's number of over 10,000 PoWs. In his book David gives no sources for his figure of 10,000. Hugh Sebag-Montefiore in his book "Dunkirk: Fight to The Last Man" cites the Bundesarchive record of 7th Panzer Division from 12 June 1940 RH27-7/220 with a figure of 8,000 British prisoners.
If the number is in doubt and Sebag-Montefiore's number has a source should it be used instead? Brownag ( talk) 23:22, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Brownag ( talk) 20:27, 17 January 2021 (UTC)