This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
May 20, 2008 The example of using the Award Star for subsequent Achievement medals is in direct contradiction to the Wikipedia Achievement Medal page, which indicates the use of Oak leaf Clusters for subsequent awards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_Medal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveo1544 ( talk • contribs) 21:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
September 01, 2005 Is there a difference between a service star and an award star? They appear to be referring to the identical thing. Anyone able to clear this up and/or fix? -unsigned anon user —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.146.237.163 ( talk • contribs) 01:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Hello,
YahwehSaves. I noticed you reverted my removal of the JMUA with a citation to
DoDM 1348.33 Vol 3 after I cited
DoDM 1348.33 Vol 1, which only lists the OLC as the device for annotating subsequent awards of the JMUA on pages 57 & 58. Sure enough, I can see on page 53 of Vol 3 that the JMUA is listed at the tail end - much to my surprise, as it seems to contradict Vol 1. I didn't expect to see that, and the chart on page 50 of Vol 3 lists only the OLC as an authorized device for the JMUA, another contradiction in the same directive manual. This made me turn to Chapter 5 of the Navy implementation
regulation; on page 5-46, it authorizes the wear of Oak Leaf Clusters for the JMUA, but not stars. This would lead me to believe that although page 53 of the DoD Manual appears to authorize it, the Navy chooses not to in its implementation. Do you agree with this interpretation, or do you have a different explanation? Regards,
AzureCitizen (
talk)
00:49, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
We're all here to improve Wikipedia, and sorting out these kinds of items can be confusing. Let's all WP:AGF. I didn't know there was an updated Navy-Marine manual, so I went and took a quick look at it just now. You can find a copy of SECNAVINST 1650.1H here. On page 1-10, paragraph 123, subsection 3b, we find the following (italics added for emphasis):
Oak Leaf Cluster. The oak-leaf cluster, which is issued in two sizes and colors, is worn on the service and suspension ribbons of all Defense, Army, and Air Force decorations and the Joint Meritorious Unit Award. The larger size (13/32 inch) is worn on the suspension ribbon of the medal and the smaller size (5/16 inch) on the service ribbon and suspension ribbon of the miniature medal. The bronze oak-leaf cluster is used for the 2nd through 5th, 7th through 10th awards, and so forth. A silver oak-leaf cluster is used for the 6th, 11th and so forth, entitlement or award in lieu of five bronze oak-leaf clusters.
Hence, I believe we've found our answer. Although the DoD is the higher authority over the individual service departments, it is left to the service departments to decide how to implement the DoD directives, and at present, the Navy and Marine Corps implementation directs that USN and USMC personnel will wear oak leaf clusters on Defense medals and the JMUA. As an aside, I also know this from personal observation having been in a joint unit when a JMUA was awarded. Unless anyone has any further points they'd like to raise or bring up, we should probably close this out by amending the sentence "They are not issued for service medals, which receive service stars." to read "They are not issued for service medals, which receive service stars, nor are they issued for Department of Defense medals, for which all service members receive oak leaf clusters." Further, we should strike the following medals from the article's list: Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Defense Superior Service Medal, Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, and Joint Service Achievement Medal. Sound good? AzureCitizen ( talk) 15:13, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
If there were no indents the talk column would be shorter. The missing ref page I referenced... those awarded the JMUA award (was originally a DoD award) with the 5/16 inch star attachment prior to 1998 can still keep/wear the 5/16 inch gold star attachment (DoDM (2010-11) V3, p 49/52-53). They are eligible for the OLC since 1998, they don't "have" to get/wear the OLC. N&M 1650.1H is 2006. You can at least add the Vol. 3&DoDM 1996 info to the 5/16 inch star article if you like.— Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves ( talk • contribs)
Okay, fellow editors, I had a bit of an epiphany when looking at the current DoDM 1348.33-V3 and SECNAVINST 1650.1H again and realized that these devices aren't officially called "award stars", they are actually referred to as "5/16 inch stars" in the former and just "stars" in the latter... so I got
WP:BOLD and moved the article accordingly. This way, the article for the device is actually listed under its correct name... and if a reader searches for "award star", there is a redirect that will still bring them here. Good move, or bad move? Regards,
AzureCitizen (
talk)
00:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
To sign your posts, just add four tildes in a row at the very end before clicking "save page." If you want to see how your signature looks, just click "show preview" and you'll see how Wikipedia converts the four tildes into the signature. Give it a try! :)
AzureCitizen (
talk)
21:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
AzureCitizen, the one time mention of "subsequent award devices" (not "award device") is only in the 2010 DoD manual 1348.33, V3 (P. 16, (2) bottom): "Subsequent award devices are not authorized for wear on LOM medals awarded to foreign personnel". Since the LOM is a personal award, the term "subsequent award device" (not "award device") seems to apply only to personal awards (LOM) since "award device" or "subsequent award devices" is not mentioned for 3/16" star devices (sometimes used to denote subsequent awards) in any current award manual. There is no mention that a 5/16" or 3/16" star "may be awarded" or "Awarded for" in any manual. This article title had been, "Award Star" (implying its worn or used on personal awards) and was changed to the 5/16 inch star. "5/16 inch star" devise like oak leaf cluster device ("denotes a second or subsequent award"). DoD 1348. 33 V3, P. 1 (2) List of authorized "service devices" (Page 7, "V" device, 5/16 inch star...).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.79.31.20 ( talk) 04:05, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
This really needs to be fixed. In everyday usage, the award devices are called "Gold stars" and "Silver Stars". for instance, if I have 3 Navy Achievement Medals, I would say, "I have a NAM with 2 gold stars". No one would walk around and say "I have a Navy Achievement Medal with 2 5/16 inch stars!" I'm not sure what the exact rules are on Wiki about this, i.e. use of terminology as depicted in regulations versus common speech and language, but the way the articles reads now, it just doesn't look right. - OberRanks ( talk) 21:07, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Gang, I hope this is helpful. It is copied from the Awards Training Instruction used by the Military Personnel Records Center, specifically an appendix of the primary awards guide which deals with award devices and how they should be listed on Freedom of Information Act responses.
I've seen numerous FOIA responses from the NPRC office which use this terminology. I hope this may serve to provide at least one source for this. - OberRanks ( talk) 17:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
eeeer ...any chance we could get a section describing why these are awarded ..im finding the article is unclear on this point
Tony Spike (
talk)
11:45, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
5/16 inch star. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 09:37, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on 5/16 inch star. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:49, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 5/16 inch star. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1000-1999/CIM_1650_25D.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:13, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
The 17th reward image looks reversed for gold and silver stars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.31.212.111 ( talk) 09:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
May 20, 2008 The example of using the Award Star for subsequent Achievement medals is in direct contradiction to the Wikipedia Achievement Medal page, which indicates the use of Oak leaf Clusters for subsequent awards. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achievement_Medal —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steveo1544 ( talk • contribs) 21:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
September 01, 2005 Is there a difference between a service star and an award star? They appear to be referring to the identical thing. Anyone able to clear this up and/or fix? -unsigned anon user —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.146.237.163 ( talk • contribs) 01:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Hello,
YahwehSaves. I noticed you reverted my removal of the JMUA with a citation to
DoDM 1348.33 Vol 3 after I cited
DoDM 1348.33 Vol 1, which only lists the OLC as the device for annotating subsequent awards of the JMUA on pages 57 & 58. Sure enough, I can see on page 53 of Vol 3 that the JMUA is listed at the tail end - much to my surprise, as it seems to contradict Vol 1. I didn't expect to see that, and the chart on page 50 of Vol 3 lists only the OLC as an authorized device for the JMUA, another contradiction in the same directive manual. This made me turn to Chapter 5 of the Navy implementation
regulation; on page 5-46, it authorizes the wear of Oak Leaf Clusters for the JMUA, but not stars. This would lead me to believe that although page 53 of the DoD Manual appears to authorize it, the Navy chooses not to in its implementation. Do you agree with this interpretation, or do you have a different explanation? Regards,
AzureCitizen (
talk)
00:49, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
We're all here to improve Wikipedia, and sorting out these kinds of items can be confusing. Let's all WP:AGF. I didn't know there was an updated Navy-Marine manual, so I went and took a quick look at it just now. You can find a copy of SECNAVINST 1650.1H here. On page 1-10, paragraph 123, subsection 3b, we find the following (italics added for emphasis):
Oak Leaf Cluster. The oak-leaf cluster, which is issued in two sizes and colors, is worn on the service and suspension ribbons of all Defense, Army, and Air Force decorations and the Joint Meritorious Unit Award. The larger size (13/32 inch) is worn on the suspension ribbon of the medal and the smaller size (5/16 inch) on the service ribbon and suspension ribbon of the miniature medal. The bronze oak-leaf cluster is used for the 2nd through 5th, 7th through 10th awards, and so forth. A silver oak-leaf cluster is used for the 6th, 11th and so forth, entitlement or award in lieu of five bronze oak-leaf clusters.
Hence, I believe we've found our answer. Although the DoD is the higher authority over the individual service departments, it is left to the service departments to decide how to implement the DoD directives, and at present, the Navy and Marine Corps implementation directs that USN and USMC personnel will wear oak leaf clusters on Defense medals and the JMUA. As an aside, I also know this from personal observation having been in a joint unit when a JMUA was awarded. Unless anyone has any further points they'd like to raise or bring up, we should probably close this out by amending the sentence "They are not issued for service medals, which receive service stars." to read "They are not issued for service medals, which receive service stars, nor are they issued for Department of Defense medals, for which all service members receive oak leaf clusters." Further, we should strike the following medals from the article's list: Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Defense Superior Service Medal, Defense Meritorious Service Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, and Joint Service Achievement Medal. Sound good? AzureCitizen ( talk) 15:13, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
If there were no indents the talk column would be shorter. The missing ref page I referenced... those awarded the JMUA award (was originally a DoD award) with the 5/16 inch star attachment prior to 1998 can still keep/wear the 5/16 inch gold star attachment (DoDM (2010-11) V3, p 49/52-53). They are eligible for the OLC since 1998, they don't "have" to get/wear the OLC. N&M 1650.1H is 2006. You can at least add the Vol. 3&DoDM 1996 info to the 5/16 inch star article if you like.— Preceding unsigned comment added by YahwehSaves ( talk • contribs)
Okay, fellow editors, I had a bit of an epiphany when looking at the current DoDM 1348.33-V3 and SECNAVINST 1650.1H again and realized that these devices aren't officially called "award stars", they are actually referred to as "5/16 inch stars" in the former and just "stars" in the latter... so I got
WP:BOLD and moved the article accordingly. This way, the article for the device is actually listed under its correct name... and if a reader searches for "award star", there is a redirect that will still bring them here. Good move, or bad move? Regards,
AzureCitizen (
talk)
00:25, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
To sign your posts, just add four tildes in a row at the very end before clicking "save page." If you want to see how your signature looks, just click "show preview" and you'll see how Wikipedia converts the four tildes into the signature. Give it a try! :)
AzureCitizen (
talk)
21:15, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
AzureCitizen, the one time mention of "subsequent award devices" (not "award device") is only in the 2010 DoD manual 1348.33, V3 (P. 16, (2) bottom): "Subsequent award devices are not authorized for wear on LOM medals awarded to foreign personnel". Since the LOM is a personal award, the term "subsequent award device" (not "award device") seems to apply only to personal awards (LOM) since "award device" or "subsequent award devices" is not mentioned for 3/16" star devices (sometimes used to denote subsequent awards) in any current award manual. There is no mention that a 5/16" or 3/16" star "may be awarded" or "Awarded for" in any manual. This article title had been, "Award Star" (implying its worn or used on personal awards) and was changed to the 5/16 inch star. "5/16 inch star" devise like oak leaf cluster device ("denotes a second or subsequent award"). DoD 1348. 33 V3, P. 1 (2) List of authorized "service devices" (Page 7, "V" device, 5/16 inch star...).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.79.31.20 ( talk) 04:05, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
This really needs to be fixed. In everyday usage, the award devices are called "Gold stars" and "Silver Stars". for instance, if I have 3 Navy Achievement Medals, I would say, "I have a NAM with 2 gold stars". No one would walk around and say "I have a Navy Achievement Medal with 2 5/16 inch stars!" I'm not sure what the exact rules are on Wiki about this, i.e. use of terminology as depicted in regulations versus common speech and language, but the way the articles reads now, it just doesn't look right. - OberRanks ( talk) 21:07, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Gang, I hope this is helpful. It is copied from the Awards Training Instruction used by the Military Personnel Records Center, specifically an appendix of the primary awards guide which deals with award devices and how they should be listed on Freedom of Information Act responses.
I've seen numerous FOIA responses from the NPRC office which use this terminology. I hope this may serve to provide at least one source for this. - OberRanks ( talk) 17:25, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
eeeer ...any chance we could get a section describing why these are awarded ..im finding the article is unclear on this point
Tony Spike (
talk)
11:45, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
5/16 inch star. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 09:37, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on 5/16 inch star. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:49, 22 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 5/16 inch star. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1000-1999/CIM_1650_25D.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:13, 23 June 2017 (UTC)
The 17th reward image looks reversed for gold and silver stars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.31.212.111 ( talk) 09:54, 20 March 2018 (UTC)