This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Is it just me, or should there be a lot more information about the "Road to Baghdad" and the ground operations during OIF I and OIF in general. -- Signaleer 20:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
-- Beyond that the labelling of OIF I, OIF III, OIF V is absolute bunk. The timeframes for those are unique to 3rd Infantry Divison, what they were calling OIF V, others were calling OIF IV, or OIF VI. There is nothing scholarly about, and especially now that all the actual campaigns have been given actual names. Those are just nicknames given to troop rotations from inside the various organizations. Early on the campaigns were nicknamed OIF I, II etc. The official version is Operation Iraqi Freedom, which is subdivided into a series of 7 or 8 strategic phases, such as, "Liberation of Iraq" and "Iraqi Surge." Those phases also equal campaign stars for the campaign medal, and if you look at the dates 3rd infantry division has earned.... all of them. Just saying. I would edit the entire thing myself, but i just don't have the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.206.141.114 ( talk) 19:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Is it really supposed to be '3d Infantry Division (United States)' instead of 3rd? Does the army not use the 'r', uhh, except that it's used all over the place elsewhere
MGlosenger 02:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Someone had added a section on how the division earned its nickname to the start of the article. I moved this to the end of the World War I section as, historically, this is when it occurred and it therefore reads better. However, I notice that the end of the previous section (Order of Battle) covers much of the same information. It may therefore be worth these two sections being merged, or the parts related to the nickname being removed from the Order of Battle section - otherwise the nickname information is, essentially, duplicated. CultureDrone ( talk) 13:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
This seems to me like it should be on ITN or something. Or at least be expanded. Given a personal history of haranguing jackasses who just bitch about editing not being done, I guess this kinda makes me a hypocrite. I am a hypocrite. - Fredgoat ( talk) 03:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
The Coup Theory section is nothing but wild-eyed allegations with no supporting evidence whatsoever. It has no factual basis and should be deleted per Wikipedia policy. Virgil H. Soule ( talk) 16:11, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, this should have its own seperate page and not on this unit page.-- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 06:17, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Why is it that a visit and remarks by GEN Casey, Chief of Staff of the US Army given its own subsection? If this were done for every unit, whenever a Chief of Staff visited it or spoke about it, all the unit articles would be littered with dates of visits, and remarks. I recommend it be either rolled into its assignment to USNORTHCOM, or it be deleted completely. Furthermore this "concern" of a conspiracy theory is already listed on the USNORTHCOM article, why does it need repeating on this article? As you are the one who appears to be deadset on having this section, I will wait on your action.-- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 03:48, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
The Concerned section which I added has since been removed and the move of 1st Brigage to USNORTHCOM has been moved under notable people. I will correct this. I do not agree with the addition of . Critical Chris, however that does not mean his additions deserve to be deleted. 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 05:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I disagree that this material should be completely exiled to United States Northern Command. If anything, because of it's public notability in the news media, it merits inclusion in both articles to allow researchers to more easily find relevant information on the subject, unless of course you are interested in suppressing access to this important information Critical Chris ( talk) 17:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the editors that believe the material in the controversy section really doesn't belong here in the 3rd ID article. This controversy doesn't really apply to 3rd ID per se, but rather to the designation of a Combat Arms Brigadefor possible domestic use. US Army North would likely be a better place for this information. Additionally, this is not a 'combat deployment.' Last time I checked, the US Army was not involved in hostilties on US soil, and the brigade was not deployed, but rather assigned to NORTHCOM. I'm going to edit that bit out. MWShort ( talk) 15:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the editors as well. As far as a "bloodless coup d'etat" is concerned, one U.S. Army brigade combat team does not have the manpower, firepower, or command and control abilities to overthrow the United States Government. MWShort makes a good point, that the brigade has been attached (not re-assigned) to USNORTHCOM, as any brigade returning from USCENTCOM is (that is, coming back from the Middle East). While the rest of the 3d division will be training to redeploy to CENTCOM operations, the 1st brigade will be training for possible support operations on American soil. -- Aristotle1776 ( talk) 17:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed a long laundry list of information in the form of information boxes, it not only stretches the article but it create a big gap between the main text in the article. Can this information be organizationed so it does not create this effect for the reader. - Signaleer ( talk) 22:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Since we cannot agree on certain placement of content, it appears we need to discuss the structure of this article. In other articles where there is controversy or critism of an action relating to the subject, this is usually added near the end of the article, as it is opinion based, rather than fact based. Statements of opinion regarding the subject have a rightful place, but are usually reserved for after factual statements are given. Furthermore it was brought up that there are many sections of this article that are just continuing lists that could be cleaned up.-- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 06:08, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
According to http://www.forscom.army.mil/cmd_staff/orgchart/OrganizationalChart.htm, the 3rd ID falls under FORSCOM, not 18th Airborne Corps. Anyone know different. The website if official for FORSCOM. Mrshankly01 ( talk) 17:29, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
3rd ID fell under the command of XVIII Airborne Corps until 2006, since then it falls under FORSCOM directly.
XVIII Airborne Corps to lose commands
Army Times
XVIII Airborne Corps to lose commands
October 03, 2006
Associated Press
FORT BRAGG, N.C. — The XVIII Airborne Corps no longer is in command of the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Stewart, Ga., and in December won’t have the 101st Airborne Division under its command. It’s all part of the Army’s continuing transformation, a post spokesman said Monday. The 3rd Infantry came from under the XVIII Airborne Corps on Sunday. The changes will make the corps headquarters fit more neatly into the modular organization concept under which units are more independent and can be plugged into larger battle groups as needed around the world. Transformation involves downsizing divisions of 10,000 ore more soldiers to smaller brigades of about 3,000 that can operate independently or be included under larger theater commands, like that in Iraq. The corps "won’t have the responsibility of running the post as in the past," said spokesman Col. Billy Bucker. In the past, the commander of the corps has had four divisions under him as well as responsibility for all of Fort Bragg, one of the two largest Army posts in the country. Now, the corps headquarters will be configured to deploy and become the command "module" of an army in the field and not have to worry about training the divisions at home. The corps headquarters and its former divisions will report to Forces Command, which is coming to Fort Bragg around 2010. Eventually, the 82nd Airborne and 10th Mountain Division, located at Fort Drum, N.Y., will come from under the XVIII Airborne umbrella next year, Bucker said. At some point, the commander of the 82nd will be in charge of the post. "The mission of XVIII Airborne Corps will change in that it will focus more on its primary warfighting mission," said Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, commander of the XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg. The XVIII Airborne Corps will be one of only three corps left in the Army by 2011. Already, the corps has disbanded and sent to other units its aviation brigade and is planning the same for its artillery, medical and communications commands.
Bullmoosebell (
talk)
04:30, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I've been a member of 3ID (3rd HBCT) since shortly before that transition. The water tower on
Kelley Hill (
Fort Benning) still reflects the Sky Dragon insignia. This is history of the division potentially asked about in the Enlisted Promotion board.
Bullmoosebell (
talk)
05:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
This is in reference to recent edits by
GraemeLeggett
First off, thanks for your assistance with editing the 3d Infantry Division article. You're been a great help. I apologize if we seem to be stepping on each other's toes between edits. Perhaps I can shed some justification on my edits.
Again, considering
good faith, I appreciate your help in making my Division's page better.
Bullmoosebell (
talk)
21:42, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
With the exception of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), which has two combat aviation brigades (101st and 159th), divisional combat aviation brigades are not numbered, and in this case it's simply "Combat Aviation Brigade, 3d Infantry Division." The error shown in the article is due to a common misperception that exists throughout the Army. The correct designation can be confirmed with Ned Bedessem, the Aviation POC at
If CABs within divisions were numbered and carried the same number as the division, then the 1st Infantry Division, 1st Armored Division, and 1st Cavalry Division would all have a unit called the 1st Combat Aviation Brigade, which would also duplicate the designation of the 1st Aviation Brigade, a combat unit that served in Vietnam and now exists as a schoolhouse unit at Fort Rucker, AL.
VilePig (
talk)
20:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Great job the article. I am just going to update the German Article where in the infobox the Commander is still that one who gave the command already in 2011 to Robert Abrams, this brings me to the question. From WW 1 there is the list:
Commanders 1.MG Joseph T. Dickman (28 November 1917) 2.BG J. A. Irons (11 February 1918) 3.MG Joseph T. Dickman (13 February 1918) 4.BG J. A. Irons (27 February 1918) 5.BG Charles Crawford (8 March 1918) 6.BG J. A. Irons (10 March 1918) 7.BG Charles Crawford (19 March 1918) 8.MG Joseph T. Dickman (12 April 1918) 9.BG F. W. Sladen (18 August 1918) 10.MG Beaumond B. Buck (27 August 1918) 11.BG Preston Brown (18 October 1918) 12.MG Robert L. Howze (19 November 1918)
This continues with the exact date of every General Commander of the 3rd Division in World War 1 from November 1917 as the USA joined the war here too at a late point, not just the month, even the Days are there! That is a great job! But does anyone know why there was such a big fluctuation?! 28 November 1917 to 19 November 1918, less than a year and 12 Commanders! This is of course good for the 12 Generals to become "MG" (Major General) or Lieutenant General or even General of the Army (4 Star General) later.
I see now there is a gap between WW1 and WW2, in WW2 the 7 commanders are listed, than a small gap and the 5 Commanders in the Korea War follow and than 1953 through 2000 (in fact until December 2001). So except 1918 to July 1940 the list is complete with all commanders.
But than the most recent commanders are without dates, the last one is in the category from "1953 through 2000" serving to December 2001, from Dec 2001 until this Day we have these 5 Major Generals (very low fluctuation now? Number of Generals is lower today I think)
Global War on Terror Commanders MG Buford Blount MG William Grant Webster MG Rick Lynch MG Tony Cucolo MG Robert B. Abrams
Absolutely no dates! Not even year or month. Why? Is there a reason, I think I saw the date where Tony Cucolo (as I said in German Wiki he still is the Commander) gave over the Command to Robert B. Abrams in Cucolos Article. But I mean it should be not hard to get the dates for the person who added all the other dates for the 59 Generals and the other 5 commanding Generals without date (it would be more if the gap from November 1918 to July 1940 would be closed ;) Or is there anything I don't see/get?!
Greetings from Berlin :) Kilon22 ( talk) 14:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
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I have replaced the lead image in the unit information box in order to maintain uniformity set by the Wikipedia community. Most of the U.S. Army divisions have the: CSIB, shoulder sleeve insignia, or similar as the lead image on the information box, not a historic photograph. If you plan to make changes or revert the lead image, please discuss here.
Examples are cited below:
- Signaleer ( talk) 12:43, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
An IP user made a change to the article changing the division name from Rock of the Marne to Marne Division. The 3rd Infantry Division's official nickname is: Rock of the Marne but the Headquarters, 3rd Infantry Division is known as Marne Division. This is referenced on the U.S. Army's Center of Military History's (CMH) 3rd Infantry Division's page located the bottom in the General section. Although the 38th Infantry Regiment is officially known as Rock of the Marne, the 3rd Infantry Division adopted the same nickname. This is an undisputed fact. There are numerous articles that supports this claim:
Nickname: Rock of the Marne. Slogan: The words of Maj. Gen. Joseph Dickman are sometimes employed, "Nous resterons la!" Shoulder patch: A square containing three diagonal white stripes on dark blue field. Association: Society of the Third Infantry Division, P. O. Box 74, Franklin Station, Washington 4, D. C. Publications: History of the Third Infantry Division, World War II, by unit members; The Infantry Journal, 115 Seventeenth Street NW., Washington 6, D. C.; 1947 ; 575 pp. Blue and White Devils, by unit members; TI&E, ETOUSA ; distributor, Society of the Third Infantry Division.
The 3d Division earned the title "Rock of the Marne" at Chateau Thierry in July 1918.
Although fighting on three sides, the riflemen and machine gunners of the 38th Infantry held their ground, earning the sobriquet "Rock of the Marne." The 3rd Infantry Division is still known by that moniker, and its Soldiers are proud of the heritage that inspired it.
Moreover, the accomplishments of the 3rd ID in regard to their treatment and training of their horses, as well as the speedy construction of the animals’ facilities, were two not insignificant achievements of the division that was to make its reputation as the ‘Rock of The Marne’.
While surrounding units retreated, the 3rd Infantry Division, under the command of Major General Joseph T. Dickman, remained rock solid and earned its reputation as the "Rock of the Marne.” General "Black Jack" Pershing said the Division's performance was one of the most brilliant in United States history.
The 3rd ID has a rich and storied history. The division was activated at Camp Greene, North Carolina, on November 21, 1917. During World War I, as a member of the American Expeditionary Force to Europe, the Division earned its name as the “Rock of the Marne” when surrounding allied units retreated and 3rd ID remained.
The division earned the designation “Rock of the Marne” at the Marne River near Chateau-Thierry on July 15, 1918. When flanking units retreated, then Division Commander, Major General Joseph Dickman, told our French Allies “Nous Resterons La” (we shall remain here). This motto is on the 3rd Infantry Division’s distinctive insignia.
Activated in November 1917 during World War I at Camp Greene, North Carolina, the Division went into combat for the first time eight months later in France. At midnight on July 14, 1918, the Division earned lasting distinction. Engaged in the Aisne-Marne Offensive, the Division was protecting Paris at a position on the banks of the Marne River. When flanking units retreated, then Division Commander, Major General Joseph Dickman, told our French allies "Nous Resterons La - We shall remain here." The 3rd Infantry Division remained rock solid and earned its reputation as the "Rock of the Marne".
The Army activated the 3rd Division on November 21, 1917 at Camp Greene, North Carolina in order to provide combat power to the American Expeditionary Forces in World War I. In July 1918, 3 ID went into combat, for the first time, against the German Army, on the banks of the Marne River in France during the Second Battle of the Marne, the division acquired its nickname “Rock of the Marne.” The division has 56 Medal of Honor recipients, more than any other Army division.
Marne Week is usually celebrated on the third week of November to commemorate the division’s birthday. The 3rd ID founded their reputation as the “Rock,” as the division held the Marne River against ferocious German attacks while other allies were forced to retreat. Marne Week showcases the “Rock of the Marne” division, honoring past and present Dogface Soldiers, Family members, and communities.
The many events will serve as a chance to bring Dogface Soldiers past and present, and their families together to enjoy comradery and celebrate being members of the Rock of the Marne Division.
We climbed the hillside in the Champagne region of France near a little town called Moulin, where the 30th and 38th Infantry Regiments of the newly formed 3rd ID held fast along the Marne River, and became forever known as the "Rock of the Marne."
If there is any misunderstanding or confusion in regards to this, please discuss and provide evidence on this topic. The articles and websites above, with the exception of a document published on a university website, all come from the official United States Army website to include: U.S. Army Center of Military History (CMH), Fort Stewart (Home of the 3rd Infantry Division), and directly from 3rd Infantry Division's website. There are additional articles and documents to add to this list but there isn't enough time or space to add to this discussion. - Signaleer ( talk) 00:26, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
The sobriquet, originally applied just to McAlexander, was altered slightly and eventually extended to encompass the 38th Infantry as a whole: “The Rock of the Marne.” The 3d Division likewise became known as the “Marne Division.”
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Is it just me, or should there be a lot more information about the "Road to Baghdad" and the ground operations during OIF I and OIF in general. -- Signaleer 20:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
-- Beyond that the labelling of OIF I, OIF III, OIF V is absolute bunk. The timeframes for those are unique to 3rd Infantry Divison, what they were calling OIF V, others were calling OIF IV, or OIF VI. There is nothing scholarly about, and especially now that all the actual campaigns have been given actual names. Those are just nicknames given to troop rotations from inside the various organizations. Early on the campaigns were nicknamed OIF I, II etc. The official version is Operation Iraqi Freedom, which is subdivided into a series of 7 or 8 strategic phases, such as, "Liberation of Iraq" and "Iraqi Surge." Those phases also equal campaign stars for the campaign medal, and if you look at the dates 3rd infantry division has earned.... all of them. Just saying. I would edit the entire thing myself, but i just don't have the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.206.141.114 ( talk) 19:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Is it really supposed to be '3d Infantry Division (United States)' instead of 3rd? Does the army not use the 'r', uhh, except that it's used all over the place elsewhere
MGlosenger 02:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Someone had added a section on how the division earned its nickname to the start of the article. I moved this to the end of the World War I section as, historically, this is when it occurred and it therefore reads better. However, I notice that the end of the previous section (Order of Battle) covers much of the same information. It may therefore be worth these two sections being merged, or the parts related to the nickname being removed from the Order of Battle section - otherwise the nickname information is, essentially, duplicated. CultureDrone ( talk) 13:16, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
This seems to me like it should be on ITN or something. Or at least be expanded. Given a personal history of haranguing jackasses who just bitch about editing not being done, I guess this kinda makes me a hypocrite. I am a hypocrite. - Fredgoat ( talk) 03:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
The Coup Theory section is nothing but wild-eyed allegations with no supporting evidence whatsoever. It has no factual basis and should be deleted per Wikipedia policy. Virgil H. Soule ( talk) 16:11, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, this should have its own seperate page and not on this unit page.-- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 06:17, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Why is it that a visit and remarks by GEN Casey, Chief of Staff of the US Army given its own subsection? If this were done for every unit, whenever a Chief of Staff visited it or spoke about it, all the unit articles would be littered with dates of visits, and remarks. I recommend it be either rolled into its assignment to USNORTHCOM, or it be deleted completely. Furthermore this "concern" of a conspiracy theory is already listed on the USNORTHCOM article, why does it need repeating on this article? As you are the one who appears to be deadset on having this section, I will wait on your action.-- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 03:48, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
The Concerned section which I added has since been removed and the move of 1st Brigage to USNORTHCOM has been moved under notable people. I will correct this. I do not agree with the addition of . Critical Chris, however that does not mean his additions deserve to be deleted. 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 05:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I disagree that this material should be completely exiled to United States Northern Command. If anything, because of it's public notability in the news media, it merits inclusion in both articles to allow researchers to more easily find relevant information on the subject, unless of course you are interested in suppressing access to this important information Critical Chris ( talk) 17:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the editors that believe the material in the controversy section really doesn't belong here in the 3rd ID article. This controversy doesn't really apply to 3rd ID per se, but rather to the designation of a Combat Arms Brigadefor possible domestic use. US Army North would likely be a better place for this information. Additionally, this is not a 'combat deployment.' Last time I checked, the US Army was not involved in hostilties on US soil, and the brigade was not deployed, but rather assigned to NORTHCOM. I'm going to edit that bit out. MWShort ( talk) 15:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the editors as well. As far as a "bloodless coup d'etat" is concerned, one U.S. Army brigade combat team does not have the manpower, firepower, or command and control abilities to overthrow the United States Government. MWShort makes a good point, that the brigade has been attached (not re-assigned) to USNORTHCOM, as any brigade returning from USCENTCOM is (that is, coming back from the Middle East). While the rest of the 3d division will be training to redeploy to CENTCOM operations, the 1st brigade will be training for possible support operations on American soil. -- Aristotle1776 ( talk) 17:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed a long laundry list of information in the form of information boxes, it not only stretches the article but it create a big gap between the main text in the article. Can this information be organizationed so it does not create this effect for the reader. - Signaleer ( talk) 22:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Since we cannot agree on certain placement of content, it appears we need to discuss the structure of this article. In other articles where there is controversy or critism of an action relating to the subject, this is usually added near the end of the article, as it is opinion based, rather than fact based. Statements of opinion regarding the subject have a rightful place, but are usually reserved for after factual statements are given. Furthermore it was brought up that there are many sections of this article that are just continuing lists that could be cleaned up.-- 207.114.206.48 ( talk) 06:08, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
According to http://www.forscom.army.mil/cmd_staff/orgchart/OrganizationalChart.htm, the 3rd ID falls under FORSCOM, not 18th Airborne Corps. Anyone know different. The website if official for FORSCOM. Mrshankly01 ( talk) 17:29, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
3rd ID fell under the command of XVIII Airborne Corps until 2006, since then it falls under FORSCOM directly.
XVIII Airborne Corps to lose commands
Army Times
XVIII Airborne Corps to lose commands
October 03, 2006
Associated Press
FORT BRAGG, N.C. — The XVIII Airborne Corps no longer is in command of the 3rd Infantry Division at Fort Stewart, Ga., and in December won’t have the 101st Airborne Division under its command. It’s all part of the Army’s continuing transformation, a post spokesman said Monday. The 3rd Infantry came from under the XVIII Airborne Corps on Sunday. The changes will make the corps headquarters fit more neatly into the modular organization concept under which units are more independent and can be plugged into larger battle groups as needed around the world. Transformation involves downsizing divisions of 10,000 ore more soldiers to smaller brigades of about 3,000 that can operate independently or be included under larger theater commands, like that in Iraq. The corps "won’t have the responsibility of running the post as in the past," said spokesman Col. Billy Bucker. In the past, the commander of the corps has had four divisions under him as well as responsibility for all of Fort Bragg, one of the two largest Army posts in the country. Now, the corps headquarters will be configured to deploy and become the command "module" of an army in the field and not have to worry about training the divisions at home. The corps headquarters and its former divisions will report to Forces Command, which is coming to Fort Bragg around 2010. Eventually, the 82nd Airborne and 10th Mountain Division, located at Fort Drum, N.Y., will come from under the XVIII Airborne umbrella next year, Bucker said. At some point, the commander of the 82nd will be in charge of the post. "The mission of XVIII Airborne Corps will change in that it will focus more on its primary warfighting mission," said Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, commander of the XVIII Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg. The XVIII Airborne Corps will be one of only three corps left in the Army by 2011. Already, the corps has disbanded and sent to other units its aviation brigade and is planning the same for its artillery, medical and communications commands.
Bullmoosebell (
talk)
04:30, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I've been a member of 3ID (3rd HBCT) since shortly before that transition. The water tower on
Kelley Hill (
Fort Benning) still reflects the Sky Dragon insignia. This is history of the division potentially asked about in the Enlisted Promotion board.
Bullmoosebell (
talk)
05:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
This is in reference to recent edits by
GraemeLeggett
First off, thanks for your assistance with editing the 3d Infantry Division article. You're been a great help. I apologize if we seem to be stepping on each other's toes between edits. Perhaps I can shed some justification on my edits.
Again, considering
good faith, I appreciate your help in making my Division's page better.
Bullmoosebell (
talk)
21:42, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
With the exception of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault), which has two combat aviation brigades (101st and 159th), divisional combat aviation brigades are not numbered, and in this case it's simply "Combat Aviation Brigade, 3d Infantry Division." The error shown in the article is due to a common misperception that exists throughout the Army. The correct designation can be confirmed with Ned Bedessem, the Aviation POC at
If CABs within divisions were numbered and carried the same number as the division, then the 1st Infantry Division, 1st Armored Division, and 1st Cavalry Division would all have a unit called the 1st Combat Aviation Brigade, which would also duplicate the designation of the 1st Aviation Brigade, a combat unit that served in Vietnam and now exists as a schoolhouse unit at Fort Rucker, AL.
VilePig (
talk)
20:01, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Great job the article. I am just going to update the German Article where in the infobox the Commander is still that one who gave the command already in 2011 to Robert Abrams, this brings me to the question. From WW 1 there is the list:
Commanders 1.MG Joseph T. Dickman (28 November 1917) 2.BG J. A. Irons (11 February 1918) 3.MG Joseph T. Dickman (13 February 1918) 4.BG J. A. Irons (27 February 1918) 5.BG Charles Crawford (8 March 1918) 6.BG J. A. Irons (10 March 1918) 7.BG Charles Crawford (19 March 1918) 8.MG Joseph T. Dickman (12 April 1918) 9.BG F. W. Sladen (18 August 1918) 10.MG Beaumond B. Buck (27 August 1918) 11.BG Preston Brown (18 October 1918) 12.MG Robert L. Howze (19 November 1918)
This continues with the exact date of every General Commander of the 3rd Division in World War 1 from November 1917 as the USA joined the war here too at a late point, not just the month, even the Days are there! That is a great job! But does anyone know why there was such a big fluctuation?! 28 November 1917 to 19 November 1918, less than a year and 12 Commanders! This is of course good for the 12 Generals to become "MG" (Major General) or Lieutenant General or even General of the Army (4 Star General) later.
I see now there is a gap between WW1 and WW2, in WW2 the 7 commanders are listed, than a small gap and the 5 Commanders in the Korea War follow and than 1953 through 2000 (in fact until December 2001). So except 1918 to July 1940 the list is complete with all commanders.
But than the most recent commanders are without dates, the last one is in the category from "1953 through 2000" serving to December 2001, from Dec 2001 until this Day we have these 5 Major Generals (very low fluctuation now? Number of Generals is lower today I think)
Global War on Terror Commanders MG Buford Blount MG William Grant Webster MG Rick Lynch MG Tony Cucolo MG Robert B. Abrams
Absolutely no dates! Not even year or month. Why? Is there a reason, I think I saw the date where Tony Cucolo (as I said in German Wiki he still is the Commander) gave over the Command to Robert B. Abrams in Cucolos Article. But I mean it should be not hard to get the dates for the person who added all the other dates for the 59 Generals and the other 5 commanding Generals without date (it would be more if the gap from November 1918 to July 1940 would be closed ;) Or is there anything I don't see/get?!
Greetings from Berlin :) Kilon22 ( talk) 14:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
In case it proves useful, I came across this while working on the Garlin Murl Conner page.
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I have replaced the lead image in the unit information box in order to maintain uniformity set by the Wikipedia community. Most of the U.S. Army divisions have the: CSIB, shoulder sleeve insignia, or similar as the lead image on the information box, not a historic photograph. If you plan to make changes or revert the lead image, please discuss here.
Examples are cited below:
- Signaleer ( talk) 12:43, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
An IP user made a change to the article changing the division name from Rock of the Marne to Marne Division. The 3rd Infantry Division's official nickname is: Rock of the Marne but the Headquarters, 3rd Infantry Division is known as Marne Division. This is referenced on the U.S. Army's Center of Military History's (CMH) 3rd Infantry Division's page located the bottom in the General section. Although the 38th Infantry Regiment is officially known as Rock of the Marne, the 3rd Infantry Division adopted the same nickname. This is an undisputed fact. There are numerous articles that supports this claim:
Nickname: Rock of the Marne. Slogan: The words of Maj. Gen. Joseph Dickman are sometimes employed, "Nous resterons la!" Shoulder patch: A square containing three diagonal white stripes on dark blue field. Association: Society of the Third Infantry Division, P. O. Box 74, Franklin Station, Washington 4, D. C. Publications: History of the Third Infantry Division, World War II, by unit members; The Infantry Journal, 115 Seventeenth Street NW., Washington 6, D. C.; 1947 ; 575 pp. Blue and White Devils, by unit members; TI&E, ETOUSA ; distributor, Society of the Third Infantry Division.
The 3d Division earned the title "Rock of the Marne" at Chateau Thierry in July 1918.
Although fighting on three sides, the riflemen and machine gunners of the 38th Infantry held their ground, earning the sobriquet "Rock of the Marne." The 3rd Infantry Division is still known by that moniker, and its Soldiers are proud of the heritage that inspired it.
Moreover, the accomplishments of the 3rd ID in regard to their treatment and training of their horses, as well as the speedy construction of the animals’ facilities, were two not insignificant achievements of the division that was to make its reputation as the ‘Rock of The Marne’.
While surrounding units retreated, the 3rd Infantry Division, under the command of Major General Joseph T. Dickman, remained rock solid and earned its reputation as the "Rock of the Marne.” General "Black Jack" Pershing said the Division's performance was one of the most brilliant in United States history.
The 3rd ID has a rich and storied history. The division was activated at Camp Greene, North Carolina, on November 21, 1917. During World War I, as a member of the American Expeditionary Force to Europe, the Division earned its name as the “Rock of the Marne” when surrounding allied units retreated and 3rd ID remained.
The division earned the designation “Rock of the Marne” at the Marne River near Chateau-Thierry on July 15, 1918. When flanking units retreated, then Division Commander, Major General Joseph Dickman, told our French Allies “Nous Resterons La” (we shall remain here). This motto is on the 3rd Infantry Division’s distinctive insignia.
Activated in November 1917 during World War I at Camp Greene, North Carolina, the Division went into combat for the first time eight months later in France. At midnight on July 14, 1918, the Division earned lasting distinction. Engaged in the Aisne-Marne Offensive, the Division was protecting Paris at a position on the banks of the Marne River. When flanking units retreated, then Division Commander, Major General Joseph Dickman, told our French allies "Nous Resterons La - We shall remain here." The 3rd Infantry Division remained rock solid and earned its reputation as the "Rock of the Marne".
The Army activated the 3rd Division on November 21, 1917 at Camp Greene, North Carolina in order to provide combat power to the American Expeditionary Forces in World War I. In July 1918, 3 ID went into combat, for the first time, against the German Army, on the banks of the Marne River in France during the Second Battle of the Marne, the division acquired its nickname “Rock of the Marne.” The division has 56 Medal of Honor recipients, more than any other Army division.
Marne Week is usually celebrated on the third week of November to commemorate the division’s birthday. The 3rd ID founded their reputation as the “Rock,” as the division held the Marne River against ferocious German attacks while other allies were forced to retreat. Marne Week showcases the “Rock of the Marne” division, honoring past and present Dogface Soldiers, Family members, and communities.
The many events will serve as a chance to bring Dogface Soldiers past and present, and their families together to enjoy comradery and celebrate being members of the Rock of the Marne Division.
We climbed the hillside in the Champagne region of France near a little town called Moulin, where the 30th and 38th Infantry Regiments of the newly formed 3rd ID held fast along the Marne River, and became forever known as the "Rock of the Marne."
If there is any misunderstanding or confusion in regards to this, please discuss and provide evidence on this topic. The articles and websites above, with the exception of a document published on a university website, all come from the official United States Army website to include: U.S. Army Center of Military History (CMH), Fort Stewart (Home of the 3rd Infantry Division), and directly from 3rd Infantry Division's website. There are additional articles and documents to add to this list but there isn't enough time or space to add to this discussion. - Signaleer ( talk) 00:26, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
The sobriquet, originally applied just to McAlexander, was altered slightly and eventually extended to encompass the 38th Infantry as a whole: “The Rock of the Marne.” The 3d Division likewise became known as the “Marne Division.”