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This article looks rather about memory limitation in general.
I suggest renaming the article, making the 3Gb barrier a section in it, or removing the content, which is not directly about the 3Gb limitation. As far I know, this 3Gb memory limitation exists only for 32-bit MS Windows OS (am I right?). If it is so, I suggest making this clear in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexanderVK ( talk • contribs) 08:37, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
I agree with @Widefox. Also with @Guy Macon. Memory is RAM aka Primary Storage. Virtual Memory is pagefiles on a hard drive, AKA Secondary Storage. There is a clear & distinct difference between those two mediums. @Jeh - what is misleading here is to lump in Virtual Memory with Memory so that there appears to be no distinction between the two to an average reader. I.e non technical.
Also, the "Pushing the Limits": blog on Technet which is so often sourced is in itself misleading & not a reliable source. That blog uses two different chipsets to illustrate memory limitations of Windows. First screenshot is of a an Intel P965 laptop with an IA-32 CPU with a a physical limitation of 4GB - Mark's old laptop. The second screenshot below,is an AlienWare Mobile WorkStation with a Xeon installed. And I believe it was Alex Ionescu's machine. I really doubt Mark R even wrote the blog it's so full of holes..
Xeon up until ~2010 was the only CPU Intel had which could access over 4GB of main memory. Claiming all x86 CPU's since "Pentium Pro" had PAE capability is very vague reference. Also wholly incorrect. Xeon was the only one - it had a 36bit EXTERNAL address bus. Also regarding PAE - Intel's official definition from a very old whitepaper, is PAE is any CPU with more than 32 line EXTERNAL address bus. Only Xeon had this. The other in Intel's stable had 32 bit EXTERNAL bus for addressing, though a few had 64 internal.... These were known as IA-32e. IA-32e supported paging, therefore could count to over 4GB if hard drive space was included (pagefile). IA-32 on the other hand DOES NOT support paging.
Also, videocard on Mark's laptop was onboard, meaning the VRAM was sliced of the main memory. That's where the extra 512MB went. A discrete GPU with discrete VRAM does not play any part in how much memory is left over for an OS because GPU & CPU have separate address spaces. At least at the time the Technet blog which is often refernced here was written.
So, there are my reasons for supporting both Widefox & Guy Macon's edits.
Maybe we should just delete this page altogether?? Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.61.44.242 ( talk) 15:08, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
@Guy Harris. You are correct in that IA-32 does indeed support paging. Allow me to clarify: Some IA-32 processors don't support pagefile for 64bit addressing (starting w/ W2K) - just 32bit flat mode, therefore won't run Windows x64 at all. It depends on register count & internal data width & so on... In my opinion it's important to note this..
EM64T is not the original name for Intel64.
Intel64 is the name of Intel's 64bit processor architecture from Core 2 Duo onward. IA-32 is the name of Intel's 32bit processor architecture prior to Core 2 Duo.
EM64T is simply IA-32 in extended mode (32e) - Long Mode....which allows 64bit addressing. The increased address space doesn't have to be in RAM, it could be (and often is) the pagefile. Xeon boards supported 8GB RAM. I would say PAE in this case is Physical Address Extension IA-32e running on hardware limited to 4GB RAM can run in extended mode - if the page file was enabled. In this case, PAE would be Page Address Extension. I feel a clear distinction should be made between the two in articles covering PAE & x86 etc.....
In this Dell whitepaper on EM64T from 2004 Page PAE & Physical PAE/EM64T are used in two contexts. https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/vectors/2004_em64t.pdf (page 3) What do you think? Onzite. ( talk) 03:43, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
@Guy Harris: "The increased address space doesn't have to be in RAM, it could be (and often is) the pagefile." Yes, that's called "demand paging",
Wrong.
Demand Paging describes how data needed by a process is paged in from the HDD to RAM to CPU L1/2/3 on an as needed JIT basis. Demand Paging is not the Page File. A PF is an area on the drive which is used as RAM - it's used so the OS can load even though available RAM may not meet the min required to run it. Hence why the CPU traditionally boots in protected mode and hence why by default Windows initial installations have the pagefile enabled.....to prevent against boot failure. Ever try installing or loading x64 windows on a 32bit CPU or platform? It won't run. Same/similar concept as above.
But ofc rarely a problem these days anyway with 64bit hardware.
The aforementioned Page File & Demand Paging are not related to each other in any way shape or form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.210.226.161 ( talk) 23:05, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Guy Harris ( talk) 21:49, 19 September 2021 (UTC)Page files store modified pages that are still in use by some process but have had to be written to disk because they were unmapped or memory pressure resulted in a trim. Page file space is reserved when the pages are initially committed, but the actual optimally clustered page file locations cannot be chosen until pages are written out to disk.
So... what are the " ideas, incidents, or controversies" to which this article "may" lend "undue weight"?
Nobody has come up with specifics on this in nearly five years. If nobody can come up with specifics then the tag should be removed. Jeh ( talk) 09:56, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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This article looks rather about memory limitation in general.
I suggest renaming the article, making the 3Gb barrier a section in it, or removing the content, which is not directly about the 3Gb limitation. As far I know, this 3Gb memory limitation exists only for 32-bit MS Windows OS (am I right?). If it is so, I suggest making this clear in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlexanderVK ( talk • contribs) 08:37, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
I agree with @Widefox. Also with @Guy Macon. Memory is RAM aka Primary Storage. Virtual Memory is pagefiles on a hard drive, AKA Secondary Storage. There is a clear & distinct difference between those two mediums. @Jeh - what is misleading here is to lump in Virtual Memory with Memory so that there appears to be no distinction between the two to an average reader. I.e non technical.
Also, the "Pushing the Limits": blog on Technet which is so often sourced is in itself misleading & not a reliable source. That blog uses two different chipsets to illustrate memory limitations of Windows. First screenshot is of a an Intel P965 laptop with an IA-32 CPU with a a physical limitation of 4GB - Mark's old laptop. The second screenshot below,is an AlienWare Mobile WorkStation with a Xeon installed. And I believe it was Alex Ionescu's machine. I really doubt Mark R even wrote the blog it's so full of holes..
Xeon up until ~2010 was the only CPU Intel had which could access over 4GB of main memory. Claiming all x86 CPU's since "Pentium Pro" had PAE capability is very vague reference. Also wholly incorrect. Xeon was the only one - it had a 36bit EXTERNAL address bus. Also regarding PAE - Intel's official definition from a very old whitepaper, is PAE is any CPU with more than 32 line EXTERNAL address bus. Only Xeon had this. The other in Intel's stable had 32 bit EXTERNAL bus for addressing, though a few had 64 internal.... These were known as IA-32e. IA-32e supported paging, therefore could count to over 4GB if hard drive space was included (pagefile). IA-32 on the other hand DOES NOT support paging.
Also, videocard on Mark's laptop was onboard, meaning the VRAM was sliced of the main memory. That's where the extra 512MB went. A discrete GPU with discrete VRAM does not play any part in how much memory is left over for an OS because GPU & CPU have separate address spaces. At least at the time the Technet blog which is often refernced here was written.
So, there are my reasons for supporting both Widefox & Guy Macon's edits.
Maybe we should just delete this page altogether?? Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.61.44.242 ( talk) 15:08, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
@Guy Harris. You are correct in that IA-32 does indeed support paging. Allow me to clarify: Some IA-32 processors don't support pagefile for 64bit addressing (starting w/ W2K) - just 32bit flat mode, therefore won't run Windows x64 at all. It depends on register count & internal data width & so on... In my opinion it's important to note this..
EM64T is not the original name for Intel64.
Intel64 is the name of Intel's 64bit processor architecture from Core 2 Duo onward. IA-32 is the name of Intel's 32bit processor architecture prior to Core 2 Duo.
EM64T is simply IA-32 in extended mode (32e) - Long Mode....which allows 64bit addressing. The increased address space doesn't have to be in RAM, it could be (and often is) the pagefile. Xeon boards supported 8GB RAM. I would say PAE in this case is Physical Address Extension IA-32e running on hardware limited to 4GB RAM can run in extended mode - if the page file was enabled. In this case, PAE would be Page Address Extension. I feel a clear distinction should be made between the two in articles covering PAE & x86 etc.....
In this Dell whitepaper on EM64T from 2004 Page PAE & Physical PAE/EM64T are used in two contexts. https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/vectors/2004_em64t.pdf (page 3) What do you think? Onzite. ( talk) 03:43, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
@Guy Harris: "The increased address space doesn't have to be in RAM, it could be (and often is) the pagefile." Yes, that's called "demand paging",
Wrong.
Demand Paging describes how data needed by a process is paged in from the HDD to RAM to CPU L1/2/3 on an as needed JIT basis. Demand Paging is not the Page File. A PF is an area on the drive which is used as RAM - it's used so the OS can load even though available RAM may not meet the min required to run it. Hence why the CPU traditionally boots in protected mode and hence why by default Windows initial installations have the pagefile enabled.....to prevent against boot failure. Ever try installing or loading x64 windows on a 32bit CPU or platform? It won't run. Same/similar concept as above.
But ofc rarely a problem these days anyway with 64bit hardware.
The aforementioned Page File & Demand Paging are not related to each other in any way shape or form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.210.226.161 ( talk) 23:05, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Guy Harris ( talk) 21:49, 19 September 2021 (UTC)Page files store modified pages that are still in use by some process but have had to be written to disk because they were unmapped or memory pressure resulted in a trim. Page file space is reserved when the pages are initially committed, but the actual optimally clustered page file locations cannot be chosen until pages are written out to disk.
So... what are the " ideas, incidents, or controversies" to which this article "may" lend "undue weight"?
Nobody has come up with specifics on this in nearly five years. If nobody can come up with specifics then the tag should be removed. Jeh ( talk) 09:56, 7 September 2017 (UTC)