| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
 | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
| |||||||||||
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED by AjaxSmack per WP:BOLD; good work. - GTBacchus( talk) 08:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Requested move
.38 Special (band) → 38 Special (band) (without the decimal) The predominant usage is without a decimal. Only early works used the decimal. Major releases in the 1980s use "38 Special" without the decimal (except for Rock & Roll Strategy which spells it as "Thirty-Eight Special") — Billboard Magazine charts also reflect this. The Current fan site also uses "38 Special" without the decimal in all but one instance. See also album covers at individual album articles. — AjaxSmack 01:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Support as nominator. — AjaxSmack 01:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support. Even the group's website seems to avoid the decimal point, and I can't see it on the cover of their albums. -- SigPig 20:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Discussion
Add any additional comments
- Actually, since the target article is open, and the move seems uncontroversial, why not just move it? --
SigPig
20:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- These days, I never know what's controversial (see Talk:Styx (band) for example) but I'll go ahead. — AjaxSmack 21:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Having three guitarists and two drummers are both unusual and deserve some explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swiss Frank ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Somebody decided to edit the section I created, just to move all of the commas and periods outside of the quotation marks.
This is grammatically incorrect, in American English.
Source: https://www.quickanddirtytips. com/education/grammar/quotation-marks-with-periods-and-commas (remove space after period)
I don't really care that much, but someone needs an education, so there you go.
65.102.188.163 ( talk) 09:30, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- read WP:LQ, cheers -- FMSky ( talk) 10:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
This page desperately needs disambiguating links listed as .38 special also relates to unrelated subjects which are much more popular than the band. I’m not familiar with how to add disam. links but wanted point it out so we could get the process started. Herenow44 ( talk) 20:48, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. It was noted that both the band and the cartridge have a degree of variation in whether sources include a period before "38". Thus, WP:SMALLDETAILS was deemed insufficient to justify the proposed move – and accordingly, there was a strong consensus that the band is not the primary topic. The RM participants were more divided over whether the pistol cartridge should be considered the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (in which case the second proposed move would still be necessary); with neither side decisively convincing the other on this front, no consensus emerged as to whether the DAB page should be moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
– I agree with the current consensus per the old RM above that the band's name more commonly does not contain the decimal point. Per article title policy, WP:SMALLDETAILS, it may be disambiguated from .38 Special via WP:HATNOTES, as the base names are different, rather than with parenthetical disambiguation. Right now, everyone searching 38 Special must go through the dab page, when a good number of users are seeking the band, and those seeking the revolver cartridge could be served by a hatnote (the two pages get similar numbers of page views). As for the base name without the decimal point, clearly the band is the primary topic compared with 38 Special (album), which can also be served with a hatnote. I would also be okay just usurping the disambiguation page, as .38 Special (song) is just a redirect to an album where the track is listed and therefore maybe it isn't essential to have disambiguation links for it. Mdewman6 ( talk) 22:11, 24 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 11:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment the disambiguation page could also move to .38 Special (disambiguation) instead -- 64.229.90.172 ( talk) 04:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment the pistol cartridge also frequently appears as just "38 special" -- 64.229.90.172 ( talk) 04:23, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose: The pistol cartridge is also referred to as "38 Special" without the dot (and with a capital 'S'; the Wikipedia article title is .38 Special), and the dot is not pronounced verbally. Also, the band is sometimes referred to with the dot – e.g. on Allmusic, Last.fm, Sputnik, and a newspaper in the band's home town. The band was obviously named after the well-known cartridge, so anyone looking for the band should not be very surprised to learn that its name is ambiguous. — BarrelProof ( talk) 13:57, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose 1, support 2, with 38 Special instead being retargeted to the main topic .38 Special. 162 etc. ( talk) 16:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - I think the status quo is a good balance which aides readers in the best possible way. -- Netoholic @ 16:13, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose 1st, support 2nd. A decimal point is no disambiguation at all, as it may or may not be included in the cartridge (and never is when spoken), which is the clear primary topic. Therefore, 38 Special should redirect to .38 Special. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 12:40, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- It's not that titles differing by only a decimal point don't need disambiguation, it's that the disambiguation should come from hatnotes/dab pages and not parenenthetical qualifiers, per
WP:DIFFPUNCT. I agree the revolver cartridge has clear priority in terms of long-term significance, but the two topics get similar number of page views, and a non-trivial number of users reaching the article about the cartridge may be seeking the band or other topics.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
19:07, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- We don't make ambiguous titles slightly different from each other just to avoid sending readers to disambiguation pages. Hatnotes are not considered a generally superior way to disambiguate titles. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
02:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- The titles of these two articles should be chosen individually based on
WP:CRITERIA. Based on that, the best title for the cartridge article has a decimal point and the best title for the band does not. They are both the primary topic for their respective spelling, so should not have parenthetical disambiguation. Hatnotes are what should be used to navigate between them per
WP:TITLES policy (specifically
WP:DIFFPUNCT). Similar base names should not be pooled together for disambiguation.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
18:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
They are both the primary topic for their respective spelling...
No, they are not. The cartridge is the primary topic for both spellings, as already pointed out, given the decimal point is often omitted. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 14:17, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- The titles of these two articles should be chosen individually based on
WP:CRITERIA. Based on that, the best title for the cartridge article has a decimal point and the best title for the band does not. They are both the primary topic for their respective spelling, so should not have parenthetical disambiguation. Hatnotes are what should be used to navigate between them per
WP:TITLES policy (specifically
WP:DIFFPUNCT). Similar base names should not be pooled together for disambiguation.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
18:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- We don't make ambiguous titles slightly different from each other just to avoid sending readers to disambiguation pages. Hatnotes are not considered a generally superior way to disambiguate titles. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
02:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It's not that titles differing by only a decimal point don't need disambiguation, it's that the disambiguation should come from hatnotes/dab pages and not parenenthetical qualifiers, per
WP:DIFFPUNCT. I agree the revolver cartridge has clear priority in terms of long-term significance, but the two topics get similar number of page views, and a non-trivial number of users reaching the article about the cartridge may be seeking the band or other topics.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
19:07, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- Relisting comment: Consensus against moving 38 Special (band) to 38 Special; further discussion needed about moving 38 Special to 38 Special (disambiguation) and redirecting 38 Special to .38 Special BilledMammal ( talk) 11:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose leave as is. Not broken, don't fix. In ictu oculi ( talk) 20:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose 1st, support 2nd The weapon's the primary topic, clearly, over a minor band. I don't think WP:SMALLDETAILS cuts it here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 14:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose the weapon has 29,124 views compared with only 24,058[ [1]] for the band its probably safest to disambiguate though note that the weapon's "." at the beginning probably doesn't stop it from being searched for without the "." so WP:SMALLDETAILS likely doesn't apply to the simpler form. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:17, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
| This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
|
| This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
| |||||||||||
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED by AjaxSmack per WP:BOLD; good work. - GTBacchus( talk) 08:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Requested move
.38 Special (band) → 38 Special (band) (without the decimal) The predominant usage is without a decimal. Only early works used the decimal. Major releases in the 1980s use "38 Special" without the decimal (except for Rock & Roll Strategy which spells it as "Thirty-Eight Special") — Billboard Magazine charts also reflect this. The Current fan site also uses "38 Special" without the decimal in all but one instance. See also album covers at individual album articles. — AjaxSmack 01:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Survey
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
- Support as nominator. — AjaxSmack 01:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Support. Even the group's website seems to avoid the decimal point, and I can't see it on the cover of their albums. -- SigPig 20:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Discussion
Add any additional comments
- Actually, since the target article is open, and the move seems uncontroversial, why not just move it? --
SigPig
20:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- These days, I never know what's controversial (see Talk:Styx (band) for example) but I'll go ahead. — AjaxSmack 21:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Having three guitarists and two drummers are both unusual and deserve some explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swiss Frank ( talk • contribs) 17:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Somebody decided to edit the section I created, just to move all of the commas and periods outside of the quotation marks.
This is grammatically incorrect, in American English.
Source: https://www.quickanddirtytips. com/education/grammar/quotation-marks-with-periods-and-commas (remove space after period)
I don't really care that much, but someone needs an education, so there you go.
65.102.188.163 ( talk) 09:30, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
- read WP:LQ, cheers -- FMSky ( talk) 10:20, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
This page desperately needs disambiguating links listed as .38 special also relates to unrelated subjects which are much more popular than the band. I’m not familiar with how to add disam. links but wanted point it out so we could get the process started. Herenow44 ( talk) 20:48, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: not moved. It was noted that both the band and the cartridge have a degree of variation in whether sources include a period before "38". Thus, WP:SMALLDETAILS was deemed insufficient to justify the proposed move – and accordingly, there was a strong consensus that the band is not the primary topic. The RM participants were more divided over whether the pistol cartridge should be considered the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC (in which case the second proposed move would still be necessary); with neither side decisively convincing the other on this front, no consensus emerged as to whether the DAB page should be moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite ( talk • contribs) 19:03, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
– I agree with the current consensus per the old RM above that the band's name more commonly does not contain the decimal point. Per article title policy, WP:SMALLDETAILS, it may be disambiguated from .38 Special via WP:HATNOTES, as the base names are different, rather than with parenthetical disambiguation. Right now, everyone searching 38 Special must go through the dab page, when a good number of users are seeking the band, and those seeking the revolver cartridge could be served by a hatnote (the two pages get similar numbers of page views). As for the base name without the decimal point, clearly the band is the primary topic compared with 38 Special (album), which can also be served with a hatnote. I would also be okay just usurping the disambiguation page, as .38 Special (song) is just a redirect to an album where the track is listed and therefore maybe it isn't essential to have disambiguation links for it. Mdewman6 ( talk) 22:11, 24 June 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 11:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment the disambiguation page could also move to .38 Special (disambiguation) instead -- 64.229.90.172 ( talk) 04:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment the pistol cartridge also frequently appears as just "38 special" -- 64.229.90.172 ( talk) 04:23, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose: The pistol cartridge is also referred to as "38 Special" without the dot (and with a capital 'S'; the Wikipedia article title is .38 Special), and the dot is not pronounced verbally. Also, the band is sometimes referred to with the dot – e.g. on Allmusic, Last.fm, Sputnik, and a newspaper in the band's home town. The band was obviously named after the well-known cartridge, so anyone looking for the band should not be very surprised to learn that its name is ambiguous. — BarrelProof ( talk) 13:57, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose 1, support 2, with 38 Special instead being retargeted to the main topic .38 Special. 162 etc. ( talk) 16:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose - I think the status quo is a good balance which aides readers in the best possible way. -- Netoholic @ 16:13, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose 1st, support 2nd. A decimal point is no disambiguation at all, as it may or may not be included in the cartridge (and never is when spoken), which is the clear primary topic. Therefore, 38 Special should redirect to .38 Special. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 12:40, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- It's not that titles differing by only a decimal point don't need disambiguation, it's that the disambiguation should come from hatnotes/dab pages and not parenenthetical qualifiers, per
WP:DIFFPUNCT. I agree the revolver cartridge has clear priority in terms of long-term significance, but the two topics get similar number of page views, and a non-trivial number of users reaching the article about the cartridge may be seeking the band or other topics.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
19:07, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- We don't make ambiguous titles slightly different from each other just to avoid sending readers to disambiguation pages. Hatnotes are not considered a generally superior way to disambiguate titles. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
02:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- The titles of these two articles should be chosen individually based on
WP:CRITERIA. Based on that, the best title for the cartridge article has a decimal point and the best title for the band does not. They are both the primary topic for their respective spelling, so should not have parenthetical disambiguation. Hatnotes are what should be used to navigate between them per
WP:TITLES policy (specifically
WP:DIFFPUNCT). Similar base names should not be pooled together for disambiguation.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
18:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
They are both the primary topic for their respective spelling...
No, they are not. The cartridge is the primary topic for both spellings, as already pointed out, given the decimal point is often omitted. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 14:17, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- The titles of these two articles should be chosen individually based on
WP:CRITERIA. Based on that, the best title for the cartridge article has a decimal point and the best title for the band does not. They are both the primary topic for their respective spelling, so should not have parenthetical disambiguation. Hatnotes are what should be used to navigate between them per
WP:TITLES policy (specifically
WP:DIFFPUNCT). Similar base names should not be pooled together for disambiguation.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
18:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- We don't make ambiguous titles slightly different from each other just to avoid sending readers to disambiguation pages. Hatnotes are not considered a generally superior way to disambiguate titles. —
BarrelProof (
talk)
02:26, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- It's not that titles differing by only a decimal point don't need disambiguation, it's that the disambiguation should come from hatnotes/dab pages and not parenenthetical qualifiers, per
WP:DIFFPUNCT. I agree the revolver cartridge has clear priority in terms of long-term significance, but the two topics get similar number of page views, and a non-trivial number of users reaching the article about the cartridge may be seeking the band or other topics.
Mdewman6 (
talk)
19:07, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
- Relisting comment: Consensus against moving 38 Special (band) to 38 Special; further discussion needed about moving 38 Special to 38 Special (disambiguation) and redirecting 38 Special to .38 Special BilledMammal ( talk) 11:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose leave as is. Not broken, don't fix. In ictu oculi ( talk) 20:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose 1st, support 2nd The weapon's the primary topic, clearly, over a minor band. I don't think WP:SMALLDETAILS cuts it here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 14:09, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose the weapon has 29,124 views compared with only 24,058[ [1]] for the band its probably safest to disambiguate though note that the weapon's "." at the beginning probably doesn't stop it from being searched for without the "." so WP:SMALLDETAILS likely doesn't apply to the simpler form. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:17, 7 July 2023 (UTC)