While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I lived in Las Vegas from 2002-2006, and I have a pretty good memory of this story and its coverage in the local media. I rewrote this article a couple of weeks ago and I'd like to share my thoughts on it.
Just a quick response to you...I guess that you believe everthing you read and see on t.v. huh, just because you think you know what happened you dont...I KNOW FIRST HAND the facts in this case, #1 the term GANG is a legal definition and can not be thrown around and labled on people for the fun of it.I THINK that the JUDGE probably knew more about the case than you so who are you to decide that its really a gang...THEY AS YOU CALL THEM are also young men who were not all engaged in your number of acts of violence and intimidation.THOSE WERE OTHER UNIDENTIFIED individuales,with the exception of one.So once again you dont know the FACTS, you only know what you were told by a prejudice media.Yes felony convictions did result ,that was due the the District Attorneys office overcharging these young men,with attempted murder to bypass the juvinal justice system,that way he could get 5 of the nine teens automatically certified to adult status.Due to excessive media attention and fear of a polluted jury pool most of the families were afraid to go to trial.THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS A GAME...unfortunatly those families flinched first and took heavy felony raps for their children ages 16-18.Yes one did go to trial, and he was found to be INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES....hhhmmmm IS THAT BECAUSE WHAT YOU READ IN THE PAPER AND SAW ON T.V. MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE FACTS OF THE CASE....that night was a PARTY , those kids reacted like anyone who was drunk and saw someone run over by a truck that was speeding away would react...throw bottels,cans,yes and A ROCK...to bad the young man that threw the rock didn't think about what type of damage he might do when the rock hits an on coming vehical at 75+ mph...i guess he didn't do well in his physics class...I AM TOTALLY sorry that MR. Hansen SUFFERED SO....but maybe the driver of the truck should have used more care and not hit a parked vehical, and a human, leaving him for dead....or better yet never engaged in a verbal altercation over a girl in the first place.well i guess you dont know everthing do you.....IT was all about money,,,,and politics not justice in this case.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.193.125.45 ( talk • contribs) 06:40, 2 February 2007.
What up, My name is Joseph Grill and i was one the three kids that was in the truck during the attack. I would just like to say that who ever wrote the information above is full of bull sh*t. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.163.247.1 ( talk) 19:07, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
I want to amplify my post from last night and address your comments specifically. Your words appear in bold below.
Given the facts of this case, "first hand" means you witnessed the entire incident, and in practical terms, that leads to only one possibility: that you were part of the group of teens that chased Hansen away from the party. I think this is highly unlikely, and since you've chosen to post anonymously, there's no way to verify it. So I think you have, at best, "second hand" knowledge: what you heard at school from your friends. But, for the sake of argument, let's just say you were really there and witnessed everything. Your account would be useful as a primary source, particularly if you testified in court. However, primary sources are likely too biased to be objective; for example, I don't think Gazlay or Hansen would be accepted as editors.
No, it isn't. See gang. It has specific applications in a legal context, as in "gang enhancement" statutes that increase penalties. But when justified by violent actions, and when the term is used by the media, the police and witnesses, it's fair to use it here.
This is uncited, and after a quick Google search, I can't find a reliable source for this. What's your source?
So, we should accept your account of things without question? Where's your proof of media prejudice or bias? Were the LVRJ's accounts of Hansen's injuries, Gazlay's assaults, or the ensuing trials biased? How so?
In collective cases like this, with lots of defendants and witnesses, it's a common prosecutorial tactic to seek the most serious charges possible. It gives the DA leverage and forces defendants (who are sometimes the best witnesses) to consider testifying against each other. Whether this tactic is "fair" or not is a matter of opinion, and its use is not unique to this case. Also, it's not our place to provide commentary on why the pleas were accepted. The relevant fact here is that they WERE accepted. Whether a defendant is convicted by a jury or accepts a plea deal does not matter: either way, he is guilty in the eyes of the law.
Also, these were not poor families getting screwed by the system. They had good lawyers, and they knew what they were doing. IMHO, the plea deals they got were pretty sweet deals. The families knew that although they probably weren't all going to jail, someone was, and they elected to remove the risk of hard time.
Maybe the group of teens shouldn't have chased the driver back to his truck and surrounded it, leaving him with no other option to escape. Under the law, this is known as duty to retreat. The driver and his companions clearly took all reasonable measures to escape and avoid a fight. The 311 Boyz were spoiling for a fight and tried to prevent their escape. If the driver had been charged, he likely would have been able to claim self-defense. And even if you don't accept that, it is no justification for what happened next.
Ah, so it's their fault. They should have known better than to tread upon the 311 Boyz' turf or mess with their girls. And you say this isn't a gang?
Anyway, I think it's pretty clear what side of this you are on. I've attempted to cover this case in an unbiased fashion using the available sources; I cannot say the same for you. Simishag 20:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I have revised the article again, this time to include proper citations and footnotes. Simishag 20:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me first say that I sympathize with your situation. No parent deserves to be put through something like this. Also, understand that my attention to this article is not driven by a desire to make anyone look good or bad. Yes, I lived in Vegas during this time, but I don't claim to know more than anyone else about the story. It just happens to interest me since a) it occurred not long after I moved there; and b) it occurred fairly close to my neighborhood (Centennial Hills). I personally don't have anything invested in this story, other than the time I spent on this article. I don't know any of the kids, their families, the police, the attorneys... I don't even know anyone else who knew any of these people. I think you'll find me to be mostly unbiased, and even if you don't, I'm more than willing to engage in reasoned debate on either the issues or the wording in the article.
You say that I am "rewrit[ing] old news." For better or worse, this story is now a part of history, and posterity demands that we give it a fair treatment. This story is more than a mere footnote about a party that went bad. In particular, I think the fight videos that were discovered are important in the larger context of media violence, especially among teens. Perhaps this is naive, but I believe that by working together to write this history, we can prevent future generations from going down the same path.
You suggest that I "look for the story within," but that's not what Wikipedia does; we're editors, not journalists. See original research. Wikipedia relies on external sources for everything; we don't create our own knowledge here. If there's really another story, find someone to tell it, and then we can include it in our coverage here. You also mentioned that you know the real story but that the records are sealed. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about that; we have to rely on published sources.
Finally, although I think you have an inherent, and probably permanent, bias in this article, there are still ways you can help us. We don't have easy access to the public records in the case. If you have relevant records and you are willing to share them, you can scan them as PDF files and upload them here. And despite the bias issues, you are probably correct in your belief that you know the story better than we do, since you experienced the whole thing first hand. If you are willing to identify yourself, so that other editors are aware that you might be a biased source, I think you'll find that we are willing to listen to your side. Simishag 18:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 311 Boyz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:49, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
I lived in Las Vegas from 2002-2006, and I have a pretty good memory of this story and its coverage in the local media. I rewrote this article a couple of weeks ago and I'd like to share my thoughts on it.
Just a quick response to you...I guess that you believe everthing you read and see on t.v. huh, just because you think you know what happened you dont...I KNOW FIRST HAND the facts in this case, #1 the term GANG is a legal definition and can not be thrown around and labled on people for the fun of it.I THINK that the JUDGE probably knew more about the case than you so who are you to decide that its really a gang...THEY AS YOU CALL THEM are also young men who were not all engaged in your number of acts of violence and intimidation.THOSE WERE OTHER UNIDENTIFIED individuales,with the exception of one.So once again you dont know the FACTS, you only know what you were told by a prejudice media.Yes felony convictions did result ,that was due the the District Attorneys office overcharging these young men,with attempted murder to bypass the juvinal justice system,that way he could get 5 of the nine teens automatically certified to adult status.Due to excessive media attention and fear of a polluted jury pool most of the families were afraid to go to trial.THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS A GAME...unfortunatly those families flinched first and took heavy felony raps for their children ages 16-18.Yes one did go to trial, and he was found to be INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES....hhhmmmm IS THAT BECAUSE WHAT YOU READ IN THE PAPER AND SAW ON T.V. MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE FACTS OF THE CASE....that night was a PARTY , those kids reacted like anyone who was drunk and saw someone run over by a truck that was speeding away would react...throw bottels,cans,yes and A ROCK...to bad the young man that threw the rock didn't think about what type of damage he might do when the rock hits an on coming vehical at 75+ mph...i guess he didn't do well in his physics class...I AM TOTALLY sorry that MR. Hansen SUFFERED SO....but maybe the driver of the truck should have used more care and not hit a parked vehical, and a human, leaving him for dead....or better yet never engaged in a verbal altercation over a girl in the first place.well i guess you dont know everthing do you.....IT was all about money,,,,and politics not justice in this case.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.193.125.45 ( talk • contribs) 06:40, 2 February 2007.
What up, My name is Joseph Grill and i was one the three kids that was in the truck during the attack. I would just like to say that who ever wrote the information above is full of bull sh*t. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.163.247.1 ( talk) 19:07, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
I want to amplify my post from last night and address your comments specifically. Your words appear in bold below.
Given the facts of this case, "first hand" means you witnessed the entire incident, and in practical terms, that leads to only one possibility: that you were part of the group of teens that chased Hansen away from the party. I think this is highly unlikely, and since you've chosen to post anonymously, there's no way to verify it. So I think you have, at best, "second hand" knowledge: what you heard at school from your friends. But, for the sake of argument, let's just say you were really there and witnessed everything. Your account would be useful as a primary source, particularly if you testified in court. However, primary sources are likely too biased to be objective; for example, I don't think Gazlay or Hansen would be accepted as editors.
No, it isn't. See gang. It has specific applications in a legal context, as in "gang enhancement" statutes that increase penalties. But when justified by violent actions, and when the term is used by the media, the police and witnesses, it's fair to use it here.
This is uncited, and after a quick Google search, I can't find a reliable source for this. What's your source?
So, we should accept your account of things without question? Where's your proof of media prejudice or bias? Were the LVRJ's accounts of Hansen's injuries, Gazlay's assaults, or the ensuing trials biased? How so?
In collective cases like this, with lots of defendants and witnesses, it's a common prosecutorial tactic to seek the most serious charges possible. It gives the DA leverage and forces defendants (who are sometimes the best witnesses) to consider testifying against each other. Whether this tactic is "fair" or not is a matter of opinion, and its use is not unique to this case. Also, it's not our place to provide commentary on why the pleas were accepted. The relevant fact here is that they WERE accepted. Whether a defendant is convicted by a jury or accepts a plea deal does not matter: either way, he is guilty in the eyes of the law.
Also, these were not poor families getting screwed by the system. They had good lawyers, and they knew what they were doing. IMHO, the plea deals they got were pretty sweet deals. The families knew that although they probably weren't all going to jail, someone was, and they elected to remove the risk of hard time.
Maybe the group of teens shouldn't have chased the driver back to his truck and surrounded it, leaving him with no other option to escape. Under the law, this is known as duty to retreat. The driver and his companions clearly took all reasonable measures to escape and avoid a fight. The 311 Boyz were spoiling for a fight and tried to prevent their escape. If the driver had been charged, he likely would have been able to claim self-defense. And even if you don't accept that, it is no justification for what happened next.
Ah, so it's their fault. They should have known better than to tread upon the 311 Boyz' turf or mess with their girls. And you say this isn't a gang?
Anyway, I think it's pretty clear what side of this you are on. I've attempted to cover this case in an unbiased fashion using the available sources; I cannot say the same for you. Simishag 20:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I have revised the article again, this time to include proper citations and footnotes. Simishag 20:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me first say that I sympathize with your situation. No parent deserves to be put through something like this. Also, understand that my attention to this article is not driven by a desire to make anyone look good or bad. Yes, I lived in Vegas during this time, but I don't claim to know more than anyone else about the story. It just happens to interest me since a) it occurred not long after I moved there; and b) it occurred fairly close to my neighborhood (Centennial Hills). I personally don't have anything invested in this story, other than the time I spent on this article. I don't know any of the kids, their families, the police, the attorneys... I don't even know anyone else who knew any of these people. I think you'll find me to be mostly unbiased, and even if you don't, I'm more than willing to engage in reasoned debate on either the issues or the wording in the article.
You say that I am "rewrit[ing] old news." For better or worse, this story is now a part of history, and posterity demands that we give it a fair treatment. This story is more than a mere footnote about a party that went bad. In particular, I think the fight videos that were discovered are important in the larger context of media violence, especially among teens. Perhaps this is naive, but I believe that by working together to write this history, we can prevent future generations from going down the same path.
You suggest that I "look for the story within," but that's not what Wikipedia does; we're editors, not journalists. See original research. Wikipedia relies on external sources for everything; we don't create our own knowledge here. If there's really another story, find someone to tell it, and then we can include it in our coverage here. You also mentioned that you know the real story but that the records are sealed. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about that; we have to rely on published sources.
Finally, although I think you have an inherent, and probably permanent, bias in this article, there are still ways you can help us. We don't have easy access to the public records in the case. If you have relevant records and you are willing to share them, you can scan them as PDF files and upload them here. And despite the bias issues, you are probably correct in your belief that you know the story better than we do, since you experienced the whole thing first hand. If you are willing to identify yourself, so that other editors are aware that you might be a biased source, I think you'll find that we are willing to listen to your side. Simishag 18:53, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 311 Boyz. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:49, 16 January 2018 (UTC)