The contents of the 2 May 2014 Odessa clashes page were merged into 2014 Odessa clashes. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2 May 2014 Odessa clashes redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
A news item involving 2 May 2014 Odessa clashes was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 3 May 2014. |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
There is almost no truth to this article. As a Ukrainian, it is deeply saddening that even Wikipedia, a source most people would like to believe is free of bias, is in reality one of the most biased and least truthful of them all, thanks to a small group of editors who intentional cover up what is really going on.
First of all, the people who were tortured and murdered in the House of Trade Unions weren't "pro-Russian activists", they were trade unionists and leftists protesting against the violent repression of left-wing organizations and political parties by the unelected Yatsenyuk regime. All of them were Ukrainian citizens, not Russians. There is absolutely no doubt as to how the fire started. Every single video of the events in Odessa show the House of Trade Unions being pelted with molotov cocktails by right-wing radicals. People who tried to escape were dismembered, beaten, or shot. Children and a pregnant women were among those tortured and murdered, and the survivors were arrested by the police.
Video of the event in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkogdQAMvo
Very sad and disheartening that a self-proclaimed Marxist (RCGloucster) is covering up the brutal torture and murder of unarmed leftists and their families by far-right extremists, just for their political views. Don't be surprised when the same thing happens to you, my friend!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.32.113.89 ( talk) 02:38, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
BUT! There is another information in this link УНИАН: just look in Russian text from UNIAN "Подобное заявление разместил и координатор движения Информационое Сопротивление Дмитрий Тымчук. "Одесские правоохранители показали себя с худшей стороны. Всего один пример. По нашим данным, на въезде в Одессу был задержан автобус с «колорадами»...". And the translation: "Dmitry Tymchuk, coordinator of Information Resistance posted: "Odessa law enforcement officers showed their worst side. Just one example. According to our data, at the entrance to Odessa was arrested a bus with" Colorado "...". Maybe FB post of Dmitry Tymchuk and "According to Ukrainian government reports" is not the same? I try to edit this mistake for 2 times in this article, but it was deleted! This is just Facebook post of Dmitry Tymchuk, he is a journalist, he is not a minister, not the mayor, he wrote only about his own information, and it is not "According to Ukrainian government reports"! Moreover, there is no information about the arrest of " Colorado "bus in Ukrainian government reports at all! You don't believe me? Just try to to check!
Deaths from euromaidan side: 6[12] Deaths from anti-maidan 42[13] Are you kidding me? 6 Deaths are all Deaths in clashes on Grecheskaya Street! From this 6 Deaths 2 from euromaidan side (Birukov and Ivanov) and 4 from anti-maidan side (Jaworski, Petrov, Zhulkov, Losinsky). I also add this information in article, but it was deleted! So guys: Deaths from euromaidan side: 2 Deaths from anti-maidan 46 Whoever wrote this article and the one who removes my edits do not know the elementary facts about the May 2 in Odessa! if you do do not correct this 2 mistakes in the article, I will address with a request to remove this article. I see other mistakes in article,and you removed my 2 corrections without any reason...or may be your reason is to lie! Members Ymblanter, Bobrayner, NeilN deleted my edits just cause they want!!! Tribunalcomes77 ( talk) 23:35, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
References
Please tell me why you deleted the supplement with surnames of the killed men on Grecheskaya Street? You are such a great expert in the Ukrainian issue and you edit this article too! But you don't correct the big mistake in number of deaths before I came and now you delete the correction with surnames! Why? Also you deleted the information from Human Rights Watch: "Anti-maidan activists has been blocked in Afina shopping centre and 47 of them were arrested by the police". Some actions near Afina are described in this wiki article: "Some shots were fired from the roof top of the Afina shopping centre to shoot down at the crowds". Why the the supplement from Human Rights Watch is bad? Or you want to show incomplete information? May be it is better not write about the actions that occurred near Athens at all, rather than write about start and don't write about the end. Tribunalcomes77 ( talk) 18:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
There is the video on youtube, coming from surveillance camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rgGWdoDRQE
This video shows clearly who started the fire. Pro-unionists burned pro-federalist camp, surrounded the Building of Syndicates and then started throwing petrol-bombs into the windows. Why the hell it doesn't even deserve to be mentionned on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.2.66.159 ( talk) 15:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2 May 2014 Odessa clashes → May 2014 Odessa clashes – The previous RM was closed as removing "2 May" from 2014 Odessa clashes. As a result, the article was broadened. Then it was split into a newer article and the same article dealing with May protests in Odessa. I still think a "2" is unnecessary to exactly insert in order to search for this article. Some or many articles that deal with one-day events do not use an exact date, unlike September 11 attacks. I tried asking others to split the article up, but no one responded. Therefore, I'm sure that the title change won't affect the article itself. --Relisted. EdJohnston ( talk) 12:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC) George Ho ( talk) 20:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
oppose move, title should be Odessa Massacre common name in sources is massacre. sources: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377818/did-putin-plan-odessa-massacre-robert-zubrin http://rt.com/news/186520-odessa-massacre-report-falsified/ move tries to hide truths — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.148.231.12 ( talk) 01:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Support "Odessa Massacre": this term is now widely used. Here are some examples of news sources that use it:
The Nation (US): http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities
Focus Information Agency (Bulgaria): http://www.focus-fen.net/news/2015/03/01/364734/goncharenko-is-being-interrogated-on-case-opened-over-crimes-during-odessa-massacre.html
Russia Today: http://rt.com/news/184612-europe-remember-odessa-massacre/
National Review (US): http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377818/did-putin-plan-odessa-massacre-robert-zubrin
Press TV (Iran): http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/07/361609/western-coverup-of-odessa-massacre/
Voltaire Network (France): http://www.voltairenet.org/article183839.html
I think it is wrong for this article to tip-toe around the subject and use euphemisms. Mr Bee Pod ( talk) 01:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
The contents of the 2 May 2014 Odessa clashes page were merged into 2014 Odessa clashes. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2 May 2014 Odessa clashes redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4 |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
A news item involving 2 May 2014 Odessa clashes was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 3 May 2014. |
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
There is almost no truth to this article. As a Ukrainian, it is deeply saddening that even Wikipedia, a source most people would like to believe is free of bias, is in reality one of the most biased and least truthful of them all, thanks to a small group of editors who intentional cover up what is really going on.
First of all, the people who were tortured and murdered in the House of Trade Unions weren't "pro-Russian activists", they were trade unionists and leftists protesting against the violent repression of left-wing organizations and political parties by the unelected Yatsenyuk regime. All of them were Ukrainian citizens, not Russians. There is absolutely no doubt as to how the fire started. Every single video of the events in Odessa show the House of Trade Unions being pelted with molotov cocktails by right-wing radicals. People who tried to escape were dismembered, beaten, or shot. Children and a pregnant women were among those tortured and murdered, and the survivors were arrested by the police.
Video of the event in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkogdQAMvo
Very sad and disheartening that a self-proclaimed Marxist (RCGloucster) is covering up the brutal torture and murder of unarmed leftists and their families by far-right extremists, just for their political views. Don't be surprised when the same thing happens to you, my friend!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.32.113.89 ( talk) 02:38, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
BUT! There is another information in this link УНИАН: just look in Russian text from UNIAN "Подобное заявление разместил и координатор движения Информационое Сопротивление Дмитрий Тымчук. "Одесские правоохранители показали себя с худшей стороны. Всего один пример. По нашим данным, на въезде в Одессу был задержан автобус с «колорадами»...". And the translation: "Dmitry Tymchuk, coordinator of Information Resistance posted: "Odessa law enforcement officers showed their worst side. Just one example. According to our data, at the entrance to Odessa was arrested a bus with" Colorado "...". Maybe FB post of Dmitry Tymchuk and "According to Ukrainian government reports" is not the same? I try to edit this mistake for 2 times in this article, but it was deleted! This is just Facebook post of Dmitry Tymchuk, he is a journalist, he is not a minister, not the mayor, he wrote only about his own information, and it is not "According to Ukrainian government reports"! Moreover, there is no information about the arrest of " Colorado "bus in Ukrainian government reports at all! You don't believe me? Just try to to check!
Deaths from euromaidan side: 6[12] Deaths from anti-maidan 42[13] Are you kidding me? 6 Deaths are all Deaths in clashes on Grecheskaya Street! From this 6 Deaths 2 from euromaidan side (Birukov and Ivanov) and 4 from anti-maidan side (Jaworski, Petrov, Zhulkov, Losinsky). I also add this information in article, but it was deleted! So guys: Deaths from euromaidan side: 2 Deaths from anti-maidan 46 Whoever wrote this article and the one who removes my edits do not know the elementary facts about the May 2 in Odessa! if you do do not correct this 2 mistakes in the article, I will address with a request to remove this article. I see other mistakes in article,and you removed my 2 corrections without any reason...or may be your reason is to lie! Members Ymblanter, Bobrayner, NeilN deleted my edits just cause they want!!! Tribunalcomes77 ( talk) 23:35, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
References
Please tell me why you deleted the supplement with surnames of the killed men on Grecheskaya Street? You are such a great expert in the Ukrainian issue and you edit this article too! But you don't correct the big mistake in number of deaths before I came and now you delete the correction with surnames! Why? Also you deleted the information from Human Rights Watch: "Anti-maidan activists has been blocked in Afina shopping centre and 47 of them were arrested by the police". Some actions near Afina are described in this wiki article: "Some shots were fired from the roof top of the Afina shopping centre to shoot down at the crowds". Why the the supplement from Human Rights Watch is bad? Or you want to show incomplete information? May be it is better not write about the actions that occurred near Athens at all, rather than write about start and don't write about the end. Tribunalcomes77 ( talk) 18:59, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
There is the video on youtube, coming from surveillance camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rgGWdoDRQE
This video shows clearly who started the fire. Pro-unionists burned pro-federalist camp, surrounded the Building of Syndicates and then started throwing petrol-bombs into the windows. Why the hell it doesn't even deserve to be mentionned on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.2.66.159 ( talk) 15:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
2 May 2014 Odessa clashes → May 2014 Odessa clashes – The previous RM was closed as removing "2 May" from 2014 Odessa clashes. As a result, the article was broadened. Then it was split into a newer article and the same article dealing with May protests in Odessa. I still think a "2" is unnecessary to exactly insert in order to search for this article. Some or many articles that deal with one-day events do not use an exact date, unlike September 11 attacks. I tried asking others to split the article up, but no one responded. Therefore, I'm sure that the title change won't affect the article itself. --Relisted. EdJohnston ( talk) 12:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC) George Ho ( talk) 20:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
oppose move, title should be Odessa Massacre common name in sources is massacre. sources: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377818/did-putin-plan-odessa-massacre-robert-zubrin http://rt.com/news/186520-odessa-massacre-report-falsified/ move tries to hide truths — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.148.231.12 ( talk) 01:06, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Support "Odessa Massacre": this term is now widely used. Here are some examples of news sources that use it:
The Nation (US): http://www.thenation.com/article/180466/silence-american-hawks-about-kievs-atrocities
Focus Information Agency (Bulgaria): http://www.focus-fen.net/news/2015/03/01/364734/goncharenko-is-being-interrogated-on-case-opened-over-crimes-during-odessa-massacre.html
Russia Today: http://rt.com/news/184612-europe-remember-odessa-massacre/
National Review (US): http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377818/did-putin-plan-odessa-massacre-robert-zubrin
Press TV (Iran): http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/07/361609/western-coverup-of-odessa-massacre/
Voltaire Network (France): http://www.voltairenet.org/article183839.html
I think it is wrong for this article to tip-toe around the subject and use euphemisms. Mr Bee Pod ( talk) 01:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)