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I've removed the portion of the article wherein it states that 24 Sussex is "also known as Gorffwysfa", as I simply don't believe that, in modern Canada, it is - while the article (and associated source) rightly note in the History section that the original builder named the house Gorffwysfa, it certainly isn't referred to by that name by anyone in Canadian society today. Indeed, a Google search for "Gorffwysfa" turns up extremely few results that have anything to do with 24 Sussex at all; and those few results that do discuss the house mostly note the name "Gorffwysfa" only as a historical curiosity, and not as a contemporary way to refer to it.
In other words, while the article should indeed note the name in the History section, to give background on the house, it seems a bit of a stretch to claim that 24 Sussex is "also known as" Gorffwysfa when, from all accounts, nobody has used that name for it in common parlance in a century. Andrew M ( talk) 04:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
... built Gorffwysfa in 1868. After the Currier family sold the house in 1902, and it was expropriated by the Canadian government in the 1950s, it sat abandoned for years until it was fixed up as a state residence. “It was gutted, entirely,” she said. “And thus, it really wasn’t Gorffwysfa anymore, it was just 24 Sussex Drive.” Peter K Burian 03:13, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
I have not had my edits reverted nearly as often on a dozen other articles as on the one about 24 Sussex. I let it go when I was less experienced but now, I am more confident and will not accept my edits being reverted with no Edit summary or any well-reasoned explanation. I accepted that the name of the Prime Minister should not be in the lede. But I cannot accept an indication in an article about a building called something when that is not the case. Why mislead the public? Peter K Burian 19:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
In 1868, ... he built a house near the forests and water that had made his fortune. He called the house Gorffwysfa, ... After that mention of a historical name, the publication never once mentions that Welsh name.Peter K Burian 19:31, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
OK, it is briefly mentioned much later, but in my estimation, as a Canadian, the fact that the current Prime Minister does not live there (and that it is vacant) is an essential item that should be discussed in the lede. Peter K Burian 02:44, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
OK, fine let's not mention who does not live there, in the lede. Instead, I will add a quote from Trudeau in a later section as to why he does not live there. This is significant because Justin Trudeau did live there in the past when his father Pierre Trudeau was PM. Peter K Burian 03:29, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
I modified the lede to indicate that it is not under renovation, but that a plan needs to be developed before that can ever happen.
As of Sept. 2105, the NCC does not even have 24 Sussex on their priority list of work to be done to official residences. So, "they are working on a plan". I suppose they are waiting on the government to tell them it would be OK to spend $18 million. Or not. (This is a beauracratic nightmare as the following excerpt indicates.) http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-seeks-advice-on-conserving-and-developing-official-residences:
"Aside from shoring up the escarpment behind 24 Sussex in 2013, there have been no major repairs in years to the crumbling property... In 2011, the NCC said 24 Sussex needed $10 million in repairs deemed urgent four years earlier. ... committee members made more than two dozen comments and suggestions. Among them:
The perception that the rehabilitation of 24 Sussex is a political problem “should be corrected to an understanding that the real issues are of an architectural and heritage nature.”
Well that would remove this topic (falling apart, what the committee recommended, what media guy and previous residents have said) from the pure Architecture portion of the article. Anyone not interested in the fact that the PM refused to move in because the building is a wreck, need not read that topic. He could then enjoy the historic aspects of the architecture.
Since I am not feeling much objection to doing so, I will start the new section tomorrow, move current content into it, and add to it. (I'm sure we will then get disagreement about some of the content I added, but such is life.)
btw, why did I ever bother looking for 24 Sussex on Wikipedia? Only because I had read in the news that the PM refused to move in because it was falling apart. And I thought Wikipedia would have a nice summary as to why he could not move in; (because the newspaper did not provide any specifics) ... I was wrong; Wikipedia did not. (Only later was the media star interviewed and that made the newspapers.) Peter K Burian 00:17, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
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I've removed the portion of the article wherein it states that 24 Sussex is "also known as Gorffwysfa", as I simply don't believe that, in modern Canada, it is - while the article (and associated source) rightly note in the History section that the original builder named the house Gorffwysfa, it certainly isn't referred to by that name by anyone in Canadian society today. Indeed, a Google search for "Gorffwysfa" turns up extremely few results that have anything to do with 24 Sussex at all; and those few results that do discuss the house mostly note the name "Gorffwysfa" only as a historical curiosity, and not as a contemporary way to refer to it.
In other words, while the article should indeed note the name in the History section, to give background on the house, it seems a bit of a stretch to claim that 24 Sussex is "also known as" Gorffwysfa when, from all accounts, nobody has used that name for it in common parlance in a century. Andrew M ( talk) 04:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
... built Gorffwysfa in 1868. After the Currier family sold the house in 1902, and it was expropriated by the Canadian government in the 1950s, it sat abandoned for years until it was fixed up as a state residence. “It was gutted, entirely,” she said. “And thus, it really wasn’t Gorffwysfa anymore, it was just 24 Sussex Drive.” Peter K Burian 03:13, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
I have not had my edits reverted nearly as often on a dozen other articles as on the one about 24 Sussex. I let it go when I was less experienced but now, I am more confident and will not accept my edits being reverted with no Edit summary or any well-reasoned explanation. I accepted that the name of the Prime Minister should not be in the lede. But I cannot accept an indication in an article about a building called something when that is not the case. Why mislead the public? Peter K Burian 19:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
In 1868, ... he built a house near the forests and water that had made his fortune. He called the house Gorffwysfa, ... After that mention of a historical name, the publication never once mentions that Welsh name.Peter K Burian 19:31, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
OK, it is briefly mentioned much later, but in my estimation, as a Canadian, the fact that the current Prime Minister does not live there (and that it is vacant) is an essential item that should be discussed in the lede. Peter K Burian 02:44, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
OK, fine let's not mention who does not live there, in the lede. Instead, I will add a quote from Trudeau in a later section as to why he does not live there. This is significant because Justin Trudeau did live there in the past when his father Pierre Trudeau was PM. Peter K Burian 03:29, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
I modified the lede to indicate that it is not under renovation, but that a plan needs to be developed before that can ever happen.
As of Sept. 2105, the NCC does not even have 24 Sussex on their priority list of work to be done to official residences. So, "they are working on a plan". I suppose they are waiting on the government to tell them it would be OK to spend $18 million. Or not. (This is a beauracratic nightmare as the following excerpt indicates.) http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ncc-seeks-advice-on-conserving-and-developing-official-residences:
"Aside from shoring up the escarpment behind 24 Sussex in 2013, there have been no major repairs in years to the crumbling property... In 2011, the NCC said 24 Sussex needed $10 million in repairs deemed urgent four years earlier. ... committee members made more than two dozen comments and suggestions. Among them:
The perception that the rehabilitation of 24 Sussex is a political problem “should be corrected to an understanding that the real issues are of an architectural and heritage nature.”
Well that would remove this topic (falling apart, what the committee recommended, what media guy and previous residents have said) from the pure Architecture portion of the article. Anyone not interested in the fact that the PM refused to move in because the building is a wreck, need not read that topic. He could then enjoy the historic aspects of the architecture.
Since I am not feeling much objection to doing so, I will start the new section tomorrow, move current content into it, and add to it. (I'm sure we will then get disagreement about some of the content I added, but such is life.)
btw, why did I ever bother looking for 24 Sussex on Wikipedia? Only because I had read in the news that the PM refused to move in because it was falling apart. And I thought Wikipedia would have a nice summary as to why he could not move in; (because the newspaper did not provide any specifics) ... I was wrong; Wikipedia did not. (Only later was the media star interviewed and that made the newspapers.) Peter K Burian 00:17, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on 24 Sussex Drive. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:35, 9 December 2017 (UTC)