On 27 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2024 NFL draft. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2024 NFL Draft was copied or moved into 2025 NFL Draft with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2024 NFL Draft was copied or moved into 2026 NFL Draft with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2023 NFL Draft was copied or moved into 2024 NFL Draft with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
The result of the move request was: no consensus. One of the most obvious "no consensus" results I've ever seen; the discussion is divided, the sources are divided, everything is divided. As a result, we go with the status quo ante. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre ( talk) 14:52, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
– Sources (books especially) overwhelmingly use lowercase draft, with either National Football League or NFL; even in news, I see NFL Draft only half capped today (5 of the first 10 hits), which is far from the "substantial majority" called by in MOS:CAPS. These articles are primarily about the draft processes, not proper named events or trademark or logo styling (the only NFL Draft trademarks are for clothing, not what this is about). This discussion is applicable to all, but I've selected one every 10 years, starting with the 2024 one that's being used as a template, as representative of the lot. Dicklyon ( talk) 06:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 07:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)Sports, games, and other activities that are not trademarked or copyrighted are not capitalized (except where one contains a proper name or acronym, or begins a sentence)
interested users may start a fresh RM with due notification on the talk pages of all articles that would be affected.That aside, consensus can change is anyways a policy.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:33, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Specific competition titles and events (or series thereof) are capitalized if they are usually capitalized in independent sourcesSo we're left with the SPORTSCAPS conflict that NFL Draft is not usually capitalized but is a trademark.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Specific competition titles and events (or series thereof) are capitalized if they are usually capitalized in independent sources: WPA World Nine-ball Championship, Tour de France, Americas Cup. Generic usage is not: a three-time world champion, international tournaments. None take italics or other special markup.The NFL draft is an event, and capitalization in reliable sources is not consisent as Dicklyon demonstrated, so MOS:CAPS applies. Mackensen (talk) 11:04, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Sports, games, and other activities that are not trademarked or copyrighted are not capitalized. (emphasis mine) It does not say
Sports, games, and other activities that are either not trademarked or copyrighted, or only trademarked for use on merchandise, are not capitalized. Frank Anchor 13:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
It's The Gong Show, not The Gong show...: Strange arbitrary capitalization. It's not gong show, because that could be any random show with a gong, like the show featuring a gong that is The Gong Show with Dave Attell. No, its that Gong Show (all caps). Sure, NFL is a proper name. But draft is a common noun, so it's understandable, in basic English, what a (lowercase) NFL draft is. Capitalizing to NFL Draft doesn't change the meaning; but sure, corporations do it for branding or emphasis. However, Wikipedia is not their marketing arm, and most source don't choose to capitalize it either. — Bagumba ( talk) 06:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable source[emphasis added]. Per WP:NHC, statements that contradict policy should be discounted. It is not determined by a simple majority. What the NFL does is not independent. Assertions of what is or is not a proper noun that are not based on MOS:CAPS are inconsistent with WP:P&G. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:15, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Referring to the event in general as a draft doesn't mean the title can't also be 19XX Draft.: It could be capitalized, but no meaning is lost if it isn't, making it optional. — Bagumba ( talk) 02:04, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Given split usage. In such a case, doesn't MOS:CAPS tell us not to cap? Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:17, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Titles are written in sentence case...For more guidance, see WP:Naming conventions (capitalization) and WP:Manual of Style/Proper names.The lead of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) cautions:
The lead of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters has a stricter standard than "common" usage for capitalization:Outside Wikipedia, and within certain specific fields (such as medicine), the usage of all-capital terms may be a proper way to feature new or important items. However these cases are typically examples of buzzwords, which by capitalization are (improperly) given special emphasis.
— Bagumba ( talk) 10:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
There has not been a viable counterargument against the ngrams data showing that NFL draft is not consistently fully capitalized. Showing a handful (or more) examples using "NFL Draft" does not demonstrate that it is "consistently capitalized"; one could, for example, show 10 examples of capitalization, but if another 10 don't capitalize, that's not "consistent". The ngrams data is more objective. This applies whether or not "NFL Draft" is a trademark. Per MOS:TRADEMARK:Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
(See also Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) § When do we capitalize a trademark?) Moreover, the trademarks for NFL Draft are unrelated to the actual event written about on WP: one trademark is applicable only for clothing, the other is for a specific drawing (which includes a shield, football, stars, and the words). This is in contrast to valid WP capitalization for trademarks, like the Super Bowl game's trademarks for the word itself in entertainment events and broadcasting and teleommunications. Ultimately, trademark or not, both MOS:CAPS and MOS:TRADEMARK rely on its consistent presentation in independent, reliable sources. Finally, either "NFL draft" or "NFL Draft" have the same meaning, as NFL draft is just a descriptive basic English phrase of NFL and draft, unlike Super Bowl, for which the basic English phrase of (uncapitalized) "super bowl" has a different meaning.— Bagumba ( talk) 10:10, 4 May 2023 (UTC)When deciding how to format a trademark, editors should examine styles already in use by independent reliable sources. From among those, choose the style that most closely resembles standard English – regardless of the preference of the trademark owner.
Note: this was discussed at
this RfC in 2024, with the consensus that “draft” should be lowercase in these NFL articles
.
Natg 19 (
talk)
09:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey we need to add in the 49ers getting a fourth round pick from the cowboys for Trey lance Eddie1666666 ( talk) 09:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Need someone more expert in Wiki html for clean up in isle 3 & isle 5 BUF <--> GBP Rasul Douglas trade entries — Preceding unsigned comment added by IdioT.SavanT.i4 ( talk • contribs) 00:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
An RFC at VillagePump on whether "Draft" should be capitalized in NFL Draft articles, including this one, has been opened. Frank Anchor 14:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
How is this possible? Warrenhodges ( talk) 02:36, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Jets have the 49ers picks in the fifth round now 2600:1014:B1E5:9E9D:C129:6D7F:32DC:9C7F ( talk) 19:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
(
talk|
contribs)
01:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)Why is it that when I click on "Dylan McMahon" on the selections list, it takes me to a 37 year old American professional wrestler named Dylan Mark Postl? ReallyAmazingDude13 ( talk) 20:52, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
174.174.207.140 ( talk) 21:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Lions traded down to 210 pick
Just a suggestion, but in the future it might be a good idea to have links to the individual rounds of player selections at the top level of the contents, in the same way that there are links to the rounds in the trades section. 108.3.163.220 ( talk) 23:01, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Whatever the template is being use for this page, it automatically generates links for each player. This is fine as far as it goes, but sometimes the links generated are false blue links to other individuals. I couldn't figure out how to fix one of these on the fly during the draft — I leave it to those actively involved with this page to figure it out. Every link needs to be checked and wrong links fixed, I think. —tim //// Carrite ( talk) 18:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Detroit set a record with an estimated 775,000+ in attendance. Estimated 350,000+ in attendance day 1.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40038344/detroit-shatters-nfl-draft-attendance-record-700k-fans 2600:1007:B005:6AB0:99CC:378C:D82F:262C ( talk) 18:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
On 27 April 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to 2024 NFL draft. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened: |
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2024 NFL Draft was copied or moved into 2025 NFL Draft with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2024 NFL Draft was copied or moved into 2026 NFL Draft with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
Text and/or other creative content from this version of 2023 NFL Draft was copied or moved into 2024 NFL Draft with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
The result of the move request was: no consensus. One of the most obvious "no consensus" results I've ever seen; the discussion is divided, the sources are divided, everything is divided. As a result, we go with the status quo ante. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre ( talk) 14:52, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
– Sources (books especially) overwhelmingly use lowercase draft, with either National Football League or NFL; even in news, I see NFL Draft only half capped today (5 of the first 10 hits), which is far from the "substantial majority" called by in MOS:CAPS. These articles are primarily about the draft processes, not proper named events or trademark or logo styling (the only NFL Draft trademarks are for clothing, not what this is about). This discussion is applicable to all, but I've selected one every 10 years, starting with the 2024 one that's being used as a template, as representative of the lot. Dicklyon ( talk) 06:35, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
— Bagumba ( talk) 07:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)Sports, games, and other activities that are not trademarked or copyrighted are not capitalized (except where one contains a proper name or acronym, or begins a sentence)
interested users may start a fresh RM with due notification on the talk pages of all articles that would be affected.That aside, consensus can change is anyways a policy.— Bagumba ( talk) 04:33, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Specific competition titles and events (or series thereof) are capitalized if they are usually capitalized in independent sourcesSo we're left with the SPORTSCAPS conflict that NFL Draft is not usually capitalized but is a trademark.— Bagumba ( talk) 03:39, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Specific competition titles and events (or series thereof) are capitalized if they are usually capitalized in independent sources: WPA World Nine-ball Championship, Tour de France, Americas Cup. Generic usage is not: a three-time world champion, international tournaments. None take italics or other special markup.The NFL draft is an event, and capitalization in reliable sources is not consisent as Dicklyon demonstrated, so MOS:CAPS applies. Mackensen (talk) 11:04, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
Sports, games, and other activities that are not trademarked or copyrighted are not capitalized. (emphasis mine) It does not say
Sports, games, and other activities that are either not trademarked or copyrighted, or only trademarked for use on merchandise, are not capitalized. Frank Anchor 13:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
It's The Gong Show, not The Gong show...: Strange arbitrary capitalization. It's not gong show, because that could be any random show with a gong, like the show featuring a gong that is The Gong Show with Dave Attell. No, its that Gong Show (all caps). Sure, NFL is a proper name. But draft is a common noun, so it's understandable, in basic English, what a (lowercase) NFL draft is. Capitalizing to NFL Draft doesn't change the meaning; but sure, corporations do it for branding or emphasis. However, Wikipedia is not their marketing arm, and most source don't choose to capitalize it either. — Bagumba ( talk) 06:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable source[emphasis added]. Per WP:NHC, statements that contradict policy should be discounted. It is not determined by a simple majority. What the NFL does is not independent. Assertions of what is or is not a proper noun that are not based on MOS:CAPS are inconsistent with WP:P&G. Cinderella157 ( talk) 00:15, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Referring to the event in general as a draft doesn't mean the title can't also be 19XX Draft.: It could be capitalized, but no meaning is lost if it isn't, making it optional. — Bagumba ( talk) 02:04, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Given split usage. In such a case, doesn't MOS:CAPS tell us not to cap? Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:17, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Titles are written in sentence case...For more guidance, see WP:Naming conventions (capitalization) and WP:Manual of Style/Proper names.The lead of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) cautions:
The lead of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters has a stricter standard than "common" usage for capitalization:Outside Wikipedia, and within certain specific fields (such as medicine), the usage of all-capital terms may be a proper way to feature new or important items. However these cases are typically examples of buzzwords, which by capitalization are (improperly) given special emphasis.
— Bagumba ( talk) 10:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
There has not been a viable counterargument against the ngrams data showing that NFL draft is not consistently fully capitalized. Showing a handful (or more) examples using "NFL Draft" does not demonstrate that it is "consistently capitalized"; one could, for example, show 10 examples of capitalization, but if another 10 don't capitalize, that's not "consistent". The ngrams data is more objective. This applies whether or not "NFL Draft" is a trademark. Per MOS:TRADEMARK:Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
(See also Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) § When do we capitalize a trademark?) Moreover, the trademarks for NFL Draft are unrelated to the actual event written about on WP: one trademark is applicable only for clothing, the other is for a specific drawing (which includes a shield, football, stars, and the words). This is in contrast to valid WP capitalization for trademarks, like the Super Bowl game's trademarks for the word itself in entertainment events and broadcasting and teleommunications. Ultimately, trademark or not, both MOS:CAPS and MOS:TRADEMARK rely on its consistent presentation in independent, reliable sources. Finally, either "NFL draft" or "NFL Draft" have the same meaning, as NFL draft is just a descriptive basic English phrase of NFL and draft, unlike Super Bowl, for which the basic English phrase of (uncapitalized) "super bowl" has a different meaning.— Bagumba ( talk) 10:10, 4 May 2023 (UTC)When deciding how to format a trademark, editors should examine styles already in use by independent reliable sources. From among those, choose the style that most closely resembles standard English – regardless of the preference of the trademark owner.
Note: this was discussed at
this RfC in 2024, with the consensus that “draft” should be lowercase in these NFL articles
.
Natg 19 (
talk)
09:33, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey we need to add in the 49ers getting a fourth round pick from the cowboys for Trey lance Eddie1666666 ( talk) 09:11, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Need someone more expert in Wiki html for clean up in isle 3 & isle 5 BUF <--> GBP Rasul Douglas trade entries — Preceding unsigned comment added by IdioT.SavanT.i4 ( talk • contribs) 00:23, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
An RFC at VillagePump on whether "Draft" should be capitalized in NFL Draft articles, including this one, has been opened. Frank Anchor 14:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
How is this possible? Warrenhodges ( talk) 02:36, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Jets have the 49ers picks in the fifth round now 2600:1014:B1E5:9E9D:C129:6D7F:32DC:9C7F ( talk) 19:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
'''[[
User:CanonNi]]'''
(
talk|
contribs)
01:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)Why is it that when I click on "Dylan McMahon" on the selections list, it takes me to a 37 year old American professional wrestler named Dylan Mark Postl? ReallyAmazingDude13 ( talk) 20:52, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
174.174.207.140 ( talk) 21:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Lions traded down to 210 pick
Just a suggestion, but in the future it might be a good idea to have links to the individual rounds of player selections at the top level of the contents, in the same way that there are links to the rounds in the trades section. 108.3.163.220 ( talk) 23:01, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Whatever the template is being use for this page, it automatically generates links for each player. This is fine as far as it goes, but sometimes the links generated are false blue links to other individuals. I couldn't figure out how to fix one of these on the fly during the draft — I leave it to those actively involved with this page to figure it out. Every link needs to be checked and wrong links fixed, I think. —tim //// Carrite ( talk) 18:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
Detroit set a record with an estimated 775,000+ in attendance. Estimated 350,000+ in attendance day 1.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40038344/detroit-shatters-nfl-draft-attendance-record-700k-fans 2600:1007:B005:6AB0:99CC:378C:D82F:262C ( talk) 18:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)