@ Pbrks, Snowflake91, Yue, Rrrrr18, and EmeraldDG: Can there be some discussion and consensus regarding putting flags and the roster section in these League of Legends articles?
As user Rrrrr18 has mentioned, he believes there aren't any violation of MOS:FLAGS. I would argue that the repetition of flags violates MOS:FLAGCRUFT, as the flags are unnecessarily repetitive and can be seen as nationalistic.
Having flags in the bracket now emphasizes the point "Bilibili Gaming from China defeats Golden Guardians from the USA" rather than the neutral "esports team Bilibili Gaming defeats esports team Golden Guardians".
Point being, nationality shouldn't be a focal point in the results of the matches, esports events are a global competition, but not all the teams officially represent the countries involved (especially players in LCS teams), unlike countries participating in esports at the Asian Games.
The qualified teams section should have flags as a regional identifier, however it is pointless to continuously litter the article with flags that are visually distracting and removes any form of neutrality for the article. The readers aren't going to suddenly forget which region a team is from, and they can always go the mentioned section to notify them as such.
Fact of the matter is, the results should not contain any nationalistic bias and references. This has been implemented well for esports articles by user Dissident93 notably in Dota's The International, in CS:GO for the Majors articles and in Valorant for the esports events, so it should be strongly considered in order to promote consistency for esports articles in general.
“ | Per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG: 'Examples of acceptable exceptions include ... infoboxes for international competitions ...' ... Obviously the less detailed parts of the manual of style such as this excerpt can be interpreted differently from editor to editor. I would argue, as others have before me with similar articles on more well-known competitions (such as FIFA and the Olympics listed above), that there is utility in easily identifying where each competitor is from in an international competition, especially if it is not obvious from their name(s). | ” |
Personally, the flags are fine except for the MVP, location and venue section of the infobox, but ideally a general consensus to keep all of the esport events to an agreed standard would be the right move. SpyroeBM ( talk) 09:31, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
This section in my opinion is completely pointless. There is no sourced material on paper that meets guidelines relating to Wikipedia-approved esports sources.
User Rrrrr18 has mentioned the sources from team pages and lolesports, however those sources are not time fixed to the event, as future roster moves after the 2023 season will change said sources, unlike the sources used in the rosters section for example on the 2022 League of Legends World Championship, which are Upcomer sources and are fixed to the time of the event.
If readers want to find out more about the players on the teams, they can go to their teams' respective Wikipedia pages (that not all teams in this article have just to clarify) and check out the roster sources there, however as there is no source of rosters relating to MSI 2023, this part is technically unsourced and not warranted to stay in the article, plain and simple. SpyroeBM ( talk) 16:03, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
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@ Pbrks, Snowflake91, Yue, Rrrrr18, and EmeraldDG: Can there be some discussion and consensus regarding putting flags and the roster section in these League of Legends articles?
As user Rrrrr18 has mentioned, he believes there aren't any violation of MOS:FLAGS. I would argue that the repetition of flags violates MOS:FLAGCRUFT, as the flags are unnecessarily repetitive and can be seen as nationalistic.
Having flags in the bracket now emphasizes the point "Bilibili Gaming from China defeats Golden Guardians from the USA" rather than the neutral "esports team Bilibili Gaming defeats esports team Golden Guardians".
Point being, nationality shouldn't be a focal point in the results of the matches, esports events are a global competition, but not all the teams officially represent the countries involved (especially players in LCS teams), unlike countries participating in esports at the Asian Games.
The qualified teams section should have flags as a regional identifier, however it is pointless to continuously litter the article with flags that are visually distracting and removes any form of neutrality for the article. The readers aren't going to suddenly forget which region a team is from, and they can always go the mentioned section to notify them as such.
Fact of the matter is, the results should not contain any nationalistic bias and references. This has been implemented well for esports articles by user Dissident93 notably in Dota's The International, in CS:GO for the Majors articles and in Valorant for the esports events, so it should be strongly considered in order to promote consistency for esports articles in general.
“ | Per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG: 'Examples of acceptable exceptions include ... infoboxes for international competitions ...' ... Obviously the less detailed parts of the manual of style such as this excerpt can be interpreted differently from editor to editor. I would argue, as others have before me with similar articles on more well-known competitions (such as FIFA and the Olympics listed above), that there is utility in easily identifying where each competitor is from in an international competition, especially if it is not obvious from their name(s). | ” |
Personally, the flags are fine except for the MVP, location and venue section of the infobox, but ideally a general consensus to keep all of the esport events to an agreed standard would be the right move. SpyroeBM ( talk) 09:31, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
This section in my opinion is completely pointless. There is no sourced material on paper that meets guidelines relating to Wikipedia-approved esports sources.
User Rrrrr18 has mentioned the sources from team pages and lolesports, however those sources are not time fixed to the event, as future roster moves after the 2023 season will change said sources, unlike the sources used in the rosters section for example on the 2022 League of Legends World Championship, which are Upcomer sources and are fixed to the time of the event.
If readers want to find out more about the players on the teams, they can go to their teams' respective Wikipedia pages (that not all teams in this article have just to clarify) and check out the roster sources there, however as there is no source of rosters relating to MSI 2023, this part is technically unsourced and not warranted to stay in the article, plain and simple. SpyroeBM ( talk) 16:03, 4 May 2023 (UTC)