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Would it be ok to add the following "War crimes" section:
Hamas claimed it did not deliberately target civilians, and things "went out of control" [1]. Israeli sources said that survivor testimonies belie this claim. [2]
VR talk 17:29, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
The views of the involved parties obviously merit mention, and this is indeed widely covered. nableezy - 22:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
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Humanitarian efforts
In October 2023, the ICRC responded to the violent 2023 Israel-Hamas war that has killed thousands of civilians on both sides. The ICRC working closely with its alinged organisation has called the recent escalation of violence āabhorrentā and implored both sides to reduce the suffering of civilians. The ICRC is in constant contact with Hamas and Isreali officials to avoid further carnage. Fabrizio Carboni, regional director of the ICRC and ICRF for the Near and Middle East points at the impact of the war on residents of Gaza, who are now cut off from all food shipments, electricity and medical supplies, which particularly affects the functioning of local hospitals there. But he stresses that the taking of hostages is also prohibited under international humanitarian law. The ICRC as a neutral intermediary stands ready to conduct humanitarian visits and to facilitate communications between family members and hostages with the goal for their eventual release. At the same time, inhabitants of Gaza have to endure a lack of drinking water that was already problematic before the onset of the hostilities. The ICRC working closely with Red Crescent partners has a neutral, independent and exclusively humanitarian mandate during such escalations of violence in the Middle East and urges all parties to protect the lives of civilians, to reduce their suffering and protect their dignity. [1] 2A02:AA14:C482:A980:3DA6:26E0:283D:B18F ( talk) 20:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
References
The analysis section should be integrated to background. The Israeli intelligence failure, the context of the occupation, the Saudi-Israeli negotiations, Netanyahu's preoccupation with the judicial reform protests, are all suitable for the background. VR talk 20:22, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
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I'm already at 1RR. But why was the massacre at the music festival removed from the lead? It's clearly notable enough for inclusion. KlayCax ( talk) 07:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Um its in the lead? including 260 people who were massacred at a music festival. nableezy - 15:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
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The word "recently" should be removed from the sentence "... with Saudi Arabian crown prince Mohammed bin Salman recently stating ..." as per MOS:RECENTLY. Seffardim ( talk) 14:05, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
An image caption in the War Crimes section says:
A mosque destroyed by an Israeli airstrike. Under the Rome Statute, it is a war crime to intentionally attack places of worship.
It implies that Israel "intentionally" attacked the mosque in the photo. This is unsourced. Please add sources. See WP:UNSOURCED. Daffd2222 ( talk) 16:26, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
I can't find what it is related to since it has not been linked to a talk page discussion. Ecrusized ( talk) 19:10, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
A quick search through WhatLinksHere suggests that instances of this templates use which have a reason parameter would be better served by {{ globalize}} or lack the basis in systemic bias to not just use {{ NPOV}}.Thrakkx ( talk) 19:33, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
In particular, there may be a strong bias in favor of anti-Israeli voices in the conflict.Thrakkx ( talk) 19:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I've heard of it in Iran International, About Dozens of Security Gaurds were killed by Hamas. Miniuristic ( talk) 19:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
The response in Palestine section cites an article dated October 7th, which is closed, for an event that, apparently, occurred on October 8th. Fatah, the Palestine Liberation Organization, etc., are also bound to have released some kind of statements on the attacks and subsequent war, which I do think it would be relevant to add to the article, as well as to just get some ground truth to the responses of what is happening in Palestine. Daydreamdays2 ( talk) 20:23, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I added a section on Palestinian prisoners, that includes the number of Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, Hamas statement that they abducted Israelis so they could exchange them, and Hamas' previous abduction of Gilad Shalit and the subsequent prisoner exchange. Most of the sources I used mention these facts in their own reporting of this conflict. Is there any issues with covering this in the background? VR talk 21:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Is information on Palestinian prisoners in Israel relevant? Yes, as various RS have covered Palestinian prisoners in the context of this conflict:
So I think its fair to say that the issue of Palestinian prisoners is relevant to this topic. VR talk 12:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
In addition, this page is not about prisoners, this is just one of many aspects of the invasion." Shouldn't all major aspects of the invasion be discussed?
The sources above do make the connection, but what is it exactly?" The connection is that Hamas took prisoners as bargaining chips in a possible prisoner exchange. Whether that prisoner exchange happens or not is irrelevant - it doesn't change the fact that 100+ Israelis have already been abducted for a particular goal.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article clearly states the Hamas on the good side, while limits the horrific actions it did to babies and women, entire families were wiped away, burned in their house. Instead this article focuses on the safety of the Palestine people from April. Wake up! Hamas kidnapped kids and threatened to kill hostages. Hamas burned down houses to get civilians out of it and kill them. Look at the tragedy at kibbutz be'eri, the whole place smells like death! 2A0D:6FC2:4110:6700:C088:4426:FBA6:11B2 ( talk) 16:09, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
To be clear, can you back up your statement that this article "clearly states that Hamas is on the good side"? And what evidence have you concerning the "actions it did to babies"? For are you not aware that - as reported by CNN and other news outlets - even the US President is now back-tracking on claims to have seen the pictures? āĀ Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.229 ( talk) 19:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
Is this sentence in the lede an accurate reflection of the body that mentions how rights groups have accused both Hamas and Israel of committing war crimes ( MOS:LEDE: Lede is a summary of the body)?
"Human Rights Watch and the United Nations have characterized both Hamas' and Israel's conduct as amounting to warcrimes." Makeandtoss ( talk) 12:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
amount to war crimes under international humanitarian law, but about Israel it says
would amount to unlawful collective punishment, which is a war crime.
In other words, for Hamas it talks about plural war crimes in the past tense, but about Israel it talks about a singular war crime in the future tense; a singular war crime that it says if Israel continues down its path of besieging Gaza will occur, but hasn't yet. BilledMammal ( talk) 14:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
āWe strongly condemn the horrific crimes committed by Hamas, the deliberate and widespread killing and hostage-taking of innocent civilians, including older persons and children. These actions constitute heinous violations of international law and international crimes, for which there must be urgent accountability,ā the experts said.
āWe also strongly condemn Israelās indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,ā they said.
āThis amounts to collective punishment,ā the UN experts said. āThere is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces. This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime.ā
heinous violations of international law and international crimes. Israel, however, it talks in the singular;
a war crime. BilledMammal ( talk) 15:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
the statements by the Human Rights Office?
āWe also strongly condemn Israelās indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,ā they said.
Such actions will precipitate a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where its population is now at inescapable risk of starvation. Intentional starvation is a crime against humanity,ā the experts said.
UN special rapporteurs are unpaid, independent figures mandated by the Human Rights Council. They do not speak for the UN but report their findings to it.At the moment, we only have sources saying that UN special rapporteurs that either party has committed war crimes; we don't have the UN saying it in its own voice. We need a source that does that.
a U.N. -appointed Commission of Inquiryspeaks in the UN's voice then the Reuters source comes close, but doesn't quite do what we need for the proposed sentence as it only says
"clear evidence that war crimes may have been committed" by all sides to the conflict. BilledMammal ( talk) 16:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
āWe also strongly condemn Israelās indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,ā they said. āThis amounts to collective punishment,ā the UN experts said. āThere is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces. This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime.ā The experts also expressed concern about reports that journalists and media workers reporting on the conflict had been targeted, with seven Palestinian journalists and media workers reportedly killed in Israeli airstrikes. ... As a result of the Israeli attacks against Gaza, by air, land and sea, at least 1,100 Palestinians have been killed, including older persons and 290 children, and more than 5,000 injured. The airstrikes appear to have targeted densely populated areas, including markets, two hospitals, destroyed residential buildings and damaged 20 United Nations Reliefs and Works Agency (UNRWA) facilities, including schools sheltering displaced civilians. As of 11 October, the UN estimated that at least 340,000 people have been displaced within Gaza, and nearly 218,600 people are sheltering in 92 UNRWA schools across the Gaza Strip. āIndiscriminately killing civilians in the context of hostilities, with no regard for the principles of distinction, precaution and proportionality, is a war crime,ā the experts said. They also stressed that indiscriminate rocket attacks, bombing of civilian infrastructure and shelling densely populated areas constitute grave breaches of international humanitarian law, whether committed by Palestinian armed groups or by Israeli Defence Forces. On 9 October, the Israeli Defence Minister announced that authorities would completely cut essential supplies to Gaza, stating they are fighting āhuman animals.ā The Minister threatened to bomb those attempting to provide humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. On 9 and 10 October, Israel reportedly bombed the Rafah crossing at the Gaza-Egyptian border, disrupting movement in and out of Gaza, rendering the crossing closed and the enclave completely blockaded. āBesides this appalling language that dehumanises the Palestinian people, especially those who have been unlawfully āimprisonedā in Gaza for 16 years, we condemn the withholding of essential supplies such as food, water, electricity and medicines. Such actions will precipitate a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where its population is now at inescapable risk of starvation. Intentional starvation is a crime against humanity,ā the experts said.-- Andreas JN 466 17:08, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
In practice, though, international law and the specific rules that govern warfareāthe law of armed conflict (LOAC), also known as international humanitarian law (IHL)āgive Israel considerable latitude to attack Hamas, according to legal experts... Drawing that line is a subjective and contentious process. But Israelās campaign so far would meet those criteria, argues Aurel Sari, a law professor at the University of Exeter who lectures to NATO armed forces. The scale of Hamasās attack, its demonstrated intent and proven capability means that invading Gaza or even occupying it temporarily to destroy the group āwill be relatively easy to justifyā legally, he says.It's a question of WP: Weight in the article.
there have been allegations of widespread human rights allegations committed by participants in the war. Does that work? KlayCax ( talk) 02:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
There have been allegations of widespread human rights allegations committed by all major participants in the warwould be totally in line with WP: Weight and WP: NPOV. Since it doesn't: 1.) Imply a common consensus on which committed war crimes 2.) Reflects the body 3.) Doesn't exclude other Palestinian militant groups. 05:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
There were widespread deaths of civilians, and United Nations independent experts and human rights groups have accused both Hamas and Israel of committing war crimes during the conflict.Regards, Andreas JN 466 08:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
I think there's an overwhelming consensus among editors that war crimes allegations should be included in the lead.
How does everyone feel about changing it from:
Many allegations of war crimes
to:
"there have been widespread allegations of war crimes committed by participants in the war"
That's my proposal. @ Entropyandvodka: @ Nableezy: @ Andrevan: @ Jayen466: @ BilledMammal: The sentence is neutral, correctly states that all sides have been accused of war crimes, and does not present WP: Weight issues by disproportionately highlighting a implying (non-existent) present consensus among scholars of international law on the matter. Does this wording satisfy everyone? KlayCax ( talk) 02:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
"there have been widespread allegations of war crimes committed by all participants in the war". I would be happy with that.
it merely relays what the UN and various human rights groups have saidWhy should their views be prioritized over others? No one's suggesting removal in the body.
UN independent experts and human rights groups accusing both Hamas and Israel of committing war crimes during the conflict), per the discussions on sourcing above DFlhb ( talk) 10:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Jan Egeland, secretary-general of the Norwegian Refugee Council, also called the order illegal. It is ānot an evacuation opportunity, itās an order to relocate. Under humanitarian law, itās called forcible transfer of populations, and itās a war crime,ā he said. nableezy - 02:12, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
ArchiveĀ 10 | ā | ArchiveĀ 14 | ArchiveĀ 15 | ArchiveĀ 16 | ArchiveĀ 17 | ArchiveĀ 18 | ā | ArchiveĀ 20 |
Would it be ok to add the following "War crimes" section:
Hamas claimed it did not deliberately target civilians, and things "went out of control" [1]. Israeli sources said that survivor testimonies belie this claim. [2]
VR talk 17:29, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
The views of the involved parties obviously merit mention, and this is indeed widely covered. nableezy - 22:26, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
2023 IsraelāHamas war has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Humanitarian efforts
In October 2023, the ICRC responded to the violent 2023 Israel-Hamas war that has killed thousands of civilians on both sides. The ICRC working closely with its alinged organisation has called the recent escalation of violence āabhorrentā and implored both sides to reduce the suffering of civilians. The ICRC is in constant contact with Hamas and Isreali officials to avoid further carnage. Fabrizio Carboni, regional director of the ICRC and ICRF for the Near and Middle East points at the impact of the war on residents of Gaza, who are now cut off from all food shipments, electricity and medical supplies, which particularly affects the functioning of local hospitals there. But he stresses that the taking of hostages is also prohibited under international humanitarian law. The ICRC as a neutral intermediary stands ready to conduct humanitarian visits and to facilitate communications between family members and hostages with the goal for their eventual release. At the same time, inhabitants of Gaza have to endure a lack of drinking water that was already problematic before the onset of the hostilities. The ICRC working closely with Red Crescent partners has a neutral, independent and exclusively humanitarian mandate during such escalations of violence in the Middle East and urges all parties to protect the lives of civilians, to reduce their suffering and protect their dignity. [1] 2A02:AA14:C482:A980:3DA6:26E0:283D:B18F ( talk) 20:16, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
References
The analysis section should be integrated to background. The Israeli intelligence failure, the context of the occupation, the Saudi-Israeli negotiations, Netanyahu's preoccupation with the judicial reform protests, are all suitable for the background. VR talk 20:22, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
ArchiveĀ 10 | ā | ArchiveĀ 14 | ArchiveĀ 15 | ArchiveĀ 16 | ArchiveĀ 17 | ArchiveĀ 18 | ā | ArchiveĀ 20 |
I'm already at 1RR. But why was the massacre at the music festival removed from the lead? It's clearly notable enough for inclusion. KlayCax ( talk) 07:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Um its in the lead? including 260 people who were massacred at a music festival. nableezy - 15:00, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request to
2023 IsraelāHamas war has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The word "recently" should be removed from the sentence "... with Saudi Arabian crown prince Mohammed bin Salman recently stating ..." as per MOS:RECENTLY. Seffardim ( talk) 14:05, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
An image caption in the War Crimes section says:
A mosque destroyed by an Israeli airstrike. Under the Rome Statute, it is a war crime to intentionally attack places of worship.
It implies that Israel "intentionally" attacked the mosque in the photo. This is unsourced. Please add sources. See WP:UNSOURCED. Daffd2222 ( talk) 16:26, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
I can't find what it is related to since it has not been linked to a talk page discussion. Ecrusized ( talk) 19:10, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
A quick search through WhatLinksHere suggests that instances of this templates use which have a reason parameter would be better served by {{ globalize}} or lack the basis in systemic bias to not just use {{ NPOV}}.Thrakkx ( talk) 19:33, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
In particular, there may be a strong bias in favor of anti-Israeli voices in the conflict.Thrakkx ( talk) 19:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I've heard of it in Iran International, About Dozens of Security Gaurds were killed by Hamas. Miniuristic ( talk) 19:49, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
The response in Palestine section cites an article dated October 7th, which is closed, for an event that, apparently, occurred on October 8th. Fatah, the Palestine Liberation Organization, etc., are also bound to have released some kind of statements on the attacks and subsequent war, which I do think it would be relevant to add to the article, as well as to just get some ground truth to the responses of what is happening in Palestine. Daydreamdays2 ( talk) 20:23, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
I added a section on Palestinian prisoners, that includes the number of Palestinians imprisoned in Israel, Hamas statement that they abducted Israelis so they could exchange them, and Hamas' previous abduction of Gilad Shalit and the subsequent prisoner exchange. Most of the sources I used mention these facts in their own reporting of this conflict. Is there any issues with covering this in the background? VR talk 21:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
Is information on Palestinian prisoners in Israel relevant? Yes, as various RS have covered Palestinian prisoners in the context of this conflict:
So I think its fair to say that the issue of Palestinian prisoners is relevant to this topic. VR talk 12:18, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
In addition, this page is not about prisoners, this is just one of many aspects of the invasion." Shouldn't all major aspects of the invasion be discussed?
The sources above do make the connection, but what is it exactly?" The connection is that Hamas took prisoners as bargaining chips in a possible prisoner exchange. Whether that prisoner exchange happens or not is irrelevant - it doesn't change the fact that 100+ Israelis have already been abducted for a particular goal.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article clearly states the Hamas on the good side, while limits the horrific actions it did to babies and women, entire families were wiped away, burned in their house. Instead this article focuses on the safety of the Palestine people from April. Wake up! Hamas kidnapped kids and threatened to kill hostages. Hamas burned down houses to get civilians out of it and kill them. Look at the tragedy at kibbutz be'eri, the whole place smells like death! 2A0D:6FC2:4110:6700:C088:4426:FBA6:11B2 ( talk) 16:09, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
To be clear, can you back up your statement that this article "clearly states that Hamas is on the good side"? And what evidence have you concerning the "actions it did to babies"? For are you not aware that - as reported by CNN and other news outlets - even the US President is now back-tracking on claims to have seen the pictures? āĀ Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.229 ( talk) 19:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
Is this sentence in the lede an accurate reflection of the body that mentions how rights groups have accused both Hamas and Israel of committing war crimes ( MOS:LEDE: Lede is a summary of the body)?
"Human Rights Watch and the United Nations have characterized both Hamas' and Israel's conduct as amounting to warcrimes." Makeandtoss ( talk) 12:43, 13 October 2023 (UTC)
amount to war crimes under international humanitarian law, but about Israel it says
would amount to unlawful collective punishment, which is a war crime.
In other words, for Hamas it talks about plural war crimes in the past tense, but about Israel it talks about a singular war crime in the future tense; a singular war crime that it says if Israel continues down its path of besieging Gaza will occur, but hasn't yet. BilledMammal ( talk) 14:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
āWe strongly condemn the horrific crimes committed by Hamas, the deliberate and widespread killing and hostage-taking of innocent civilians, including older persons and children. These actions constitute heinous violations of international law and international crimes, for which there must be urgent accountability,ā the experts said.
āWe also strongly condemn Israelās indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,ā they said.
āThis amounts to collective punishment,ā the UN experts said. āThere is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces. This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime.ā
heinous violations of international law and international crimes. Israel, however, it talks in the singular;
a war crime. BilledMammal ( talk) 15:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
the statements by the Human Rights Office?
āWe also strongly condemn Israelās indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,ā they said.
Such actions will precipitate a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where its population is now at inescapable risk of starvation. Intentional starvation is a crime against humanity,ā the experts said.
UN special rapporteurs are unpaid, independent figures mandated by the Human Rights Council. They do not speak for the UN but report their findings to it.At the moment, we only have sources saying that UN special rapporteurs that either party has committed war crimes; we don't have the UN saying it in its own voice. We need a source that does that.
a U.N. -appointed Commission of Inquiryspeaks in the UN's voice then the Reuters source comes close, but doesn't quite do what we need for the proposed sentence as it only says
"clear evidence that war crimes may have been committed" by all sides to the conflict. BilledMammal ( talk) 16:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
āWe also strongly condemn Israelās indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza, comprising over 2.3 million people, nearly half of whom are children. They have lived under unlawful blockade for 16 years, and already gone through five major brutal wars, which remain unaccounted for,ā they said. āThis amounts to collective punishment,ā the UN experts said. āThere is no justification for violence that indiscriminately targets innocent civilians, whether by Hamas or Israeli forces. This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime.ā The experts also expressed concern about reports that journalists and media workers reporting on the conflict had been targeted, with seven Palestinian journalists and media workers reportedly killed in Israeli airstrikes. ... As a result of the Israeli attacks against Gaza, by air, land and sea, at least 1,100 Palestinians have been killed, including older persons and 290 children, and more than 5,000 injured. The airstrikes appear to have targeted densely populated areas, including markets, two hospitals, destroyed residential buildings and damaged 20 United Nations Reliefs and Works Agency (UNRWA) facilities, including schools sheltering displaced civilians. As of 11 October, the UN estimated that at least 340,000 people have been displaced within Gaza, and nearly 218,600 people are sheltering in 92 UNRWA schools across the Gaza Strip. āIndiscriminately killing civilians in the context of hostilities, with no regard for the principles of distinction, precaution and proportionality, is a war crime,ā the experts said. They also stressed that indiscriminate rocket attacks, bombing of civilian infrastructure and shelling densely populated areas constitute grave breaches of international humanitarian law, whether committed by Palestinian armed groups or by Israeli Defence Forces. On 9 October, the Israeli Defence Minister announced that authorities would completely cut essential supplies to Gaza, stating they are fighting āhuman animals.ā The Minister threatened to bomb those attempting to provide humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. On 9 and 10 October, Israel reportedly bombed the Rafah crossing at the Gaza-Egyptian border, disrupting movement in and out of Gaza, rendering the crossing closed and the enclave completely blockaded. āBesides this appalling language that dehumanises the Palestinian people, especially those who have been unlawfully āimprisonedā in Gaza for 16 years, we condemn the withholding of essential supplies such as food, water, electricity and medicines. Such actions will precipitate a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where its population is now at inescapable risk of starvation. Intentional starvation is a crime against humanity,ā the experts said.-- Andreas JN 466 17:08, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
In practice, though, international law and the specific rules that govern warfareāthe law of armed conflict (LOAC), also known as international humanitarian law (IHL)āgive Israel considerable latitude to attack Hamas, according to legal experts... Drawing that line is a subjective and contentious process. But Israelās campaign so far would meet those criteria, argues Aurel Sari, a law professor at the University of Exeter who lectures to NATO armed forces. The scale of Hamasās attack, its demonstrated intent and proven capability means that invading Gaza or even occupying it temporarily to destroy the group āwill be relatively easy to justifyā legally, he says.It's a question of WP: Weight in the article.
there have been allegations of widespread human rights allegations committed by participants in the war. Does that work? KlayCax ( talk) 02:42, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
There have been allegations of widespread human rights allegations committed by all major participants in the warwould be totally in line with WP: Weight and WP: NPOV. Since it doesn't: 1.) Imply a common consensus on which committed war crimes 2.) Reflects the body 3.) Doesn't exclude other Palestinian militant groups. 05:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
There were widespread deaths of civilians, and United Nations independent experts and human rights groups have accused both Hamas and Israel of committing war crimes during the conflict.Regards, Andreas JN 466 08:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
I think there's an overwhelming consensus among editors that war crimes allegations should be included in the lead.
How does everyone feel about changing it from:
Many allegations of war crimes
to:
"there have been widespread allegations of war crimes committed by participants in the war"
That's my proposal. @ Entropyandvodka: @ Nableezy: @ Andrevan: @ Jayen466: @ BilledMammal: The sentence is neutral, correctly states that all sides have been accused of war crimes, and does not present WP: Weight issues by disproportionately highlighting a implying (non-existent) present consensus among scholars of international law on the matter. Does this wording satisfy everyone? KlayCax ( talk) 02:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
"there have been widespread allegations of war crimes committed by all participants in the war". I would be happy with that.
it merely relays what the UN and various human rights groups have saidWhy should their views be prioritized over others? No one's suggesting removal in the body.
UN independent experts and human rights groups accusing both Hamas and Israel of committing war crimes during the conflict), per the discussions on sourcing above DFlhb ( talk) 10:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
Jan Egeland, secretary-general of the Norwegian Refugee Council, also called the order illegal. It is ānot an evacuation opportunity, itās an order to relocate. Under humanitarian law, itās called forcible transfer of populations, and itās a war crime,ā he said. nableezy - 02:12, 16 October 2023 (UTC)