This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2021 Scottish Parliament election article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in Scottish English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move the article has been established within the RM time period and thus defaulting to not moved. Additionally, a stronger consensus to not move was established. ( non-admin closure) — Music1201 talk 02:40, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Next Scottish Parliament election →
Scottish Parliament election, 2021 – None or the previous elections where put under thief 'next title' and had their year on the article title .
Barryob
(Contribs)
(Talk) 06:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC) --Relisted.
Steel1943 (
talk)
23:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
The date for the next Scottish Parliament election was put back to May 2021 because of a potential clash with a UK general election in May 2020. With the UK election now happening in June 2017 (and the following one not scheduled until May 2022), will the next Scottish election revert to the normal four year cycle? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 19:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
'Various organisations carry out opinion polling to gauge voting intention in the country ahead of the election.' is a perfectly adequate summary of the opinion poll article. I see no reason why so much attention needs to be drawn to the SNP lead in one particular poll. -- RevivesDarks ( talk) 18:15, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Next Northern Ireland Assembly election which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 10:08, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
I have been attempting to change the photo of Willie Rennie to a more recent one but haven't managed to find a way for it to clearly fit. I have made two crops of a photo of him here - File:Willie Rennie 2016 (cropped).png and here - File:Willie Rennie 2016 (cropped2).png
The current photo for Willie Rennie is relatively old being from 2011. This photo is from 2016. Can someone either find a way for either of these crops to cleanly fit in the infobox, or crop the original image (File:Willie Rennie 2016.png) themselves and use it in the infobox over the current photo please? Helper201 ( talk) 19:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
In preparation for the election next year, I though it would be a good idea to add the list results to each constituency article. It is useful to have this data at a constituency level, and articles for constituencies in Germany and New Zealand (which both use the Additional Members System too) have the results of both votes on an equal footing, for an example see Auckland Central (New Zealand electorate)#Election results.
The current template used in New Zealand articles is {{ MMP election box}}. There is nothing particularly wrong with this template and you can see it being used for a Scottish constituency at Eastwood (Scottish Parliament constituency)#Election results. However the language used on the template isn't great for British readers, as some words like "electorate" have a different meaning here, while others such as "informal votes" aren't really used at all. The design is also different to the current {{ Election box}} template, and to be honest the shading and other elements (IMO) make the table a bit confusing and harder to read.
With this in mind, I decided to make a new template that was better suited to Scottish Parliament (and indeed Welsh and London Assembly) articles. After all, New Zealand is the other side of the globe, and what works there might not necessarily work here. The template uses essentially the same format as {{ election box}}, just with additional columns for the list vote. You can find the template at {{ AMS election box begin}}, and instructions are located on the documentation page. Here is an example of the 2016 result in Aberdeen Central:
Party | Candidate | Constituency | Regional | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Votes | % | ±% | Votes | % | ±% | |||
SNP | Kevin Stewart | 11,648 | 43.6 | ![]() |
10,269 | 45.0 | ||
Labour | Lewis Macdonald | 7,299 | 27.3 | ![]() |
5,381 | 23.6 | ||
Conservative | Tom Mason | 6,022 | 22.6 | ![]() |
6,466 | 28.3 | ||
Liberal Democrats | Kevin McLeod | 1,735 | 7.5 | ![]() |
1,401 | 6.1 | ||
Scottish Green | 2,282 | 10.0 | ||||||
UKIP | 478 | 2.1 | ||||||
Scottish Christian | 208 | 0.9 | ||||||
Solidarity | 88 | 0.4 | ||||||
RISE | 75 | 0.3 | ||||||
Scottish Libertarian | 65 | 0.3 | ||||||
Communist | 60 | 0.3 | ||||||
National Front | 60 | 0.3 | ||||||
Majority | 4,349 | 16.3 | ![]() |
|||||
Valid Votes | 26,704 | 26,833 | ||||||
Invalid Votes | 137 | 58 | ||||||
Turnout | 26,841 | 46.9 | ![]() |
26,891 | 47.0 | |||
SNP hold | Swing | ![]() |
References
I intend to gradually update the 2016 results in each constituency article with this template over the next six months (and I have already done so within NE Scotland region), with a view to having this as the default template used in 2021. If anyone wishes to help out with this, then that would be great.
I'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on this, so if you have any questions then feel free to ask them below. Thanks, PinkPanda272 ( talk/ contribs) 18:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Speedy Moved. other than my oppose there's unanimous support with sound reasoning, so I'll withdraw that opposition and there's no need to drag this out any longer. It can pass as uncontroversial. — Amakuru ( talk) 09:55, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Next Scottish Parliament election →
2021 Scottish Parliament election – Earlier today,
Unreal7
BOLDly moved the page to
2021 Scottish Parliament election, referring in their edit summary to similarly named articles:
2021 London Assembly election
2021 London mayoral election
2021 Senedd election
2021 United Kingdom local elections
. This was later reverted by
Amakuru, with the edit summary: rv undiscussed move (for the third time this year); see talk page - most recent consensus was to keep at the nonspecific title.
The previous discussion at
Talk:Next Northern Ireland Assembly election in July had a consensus against the change. I tend to agree with the first part regarding the NI Assembly, as it is not due for election until 2022. Paired with the unpredictable nature of Northern Irish Politics, and the ongoing COVID situation, it seems that there is a strong possibility that the date will change. However, the date of the Scottish Parliament election looks to be more certain. We know that it won't happen this year, and even with the
new bill that could delay the election by up to 6 months, the latest possible date is November 2021. The Scottish Government has said that they intend to hold the election in May as planned,
[1], so I see no reason to keep it ambiguous on the off-chance that it is delayed further. (Pinging @
Impru20,
Jmorrison230582,
Humongous125,
Bondegezou,
Number 57, and
Amkgp: who participated in the previous discussion.) Thanks,
PinkPanda272 (
talk/
contribs)
22:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
As the current fixed term parliament legislation in Scotland refers to elections to this body as general elections: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/section/4/enacted I think we should change the name of the article to 2021 Scottish Parliament general election Ciaran.london ( talk) 19:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
2021 Scottish Parliament electionis the clearest and has the most RS coverage.
2021 Scottish general electionwould also work, but could be confused with other articles such as 2019 United Kingdom general election in Scotland. All UK devolved legislature election articles use the first format, and I don't see a compelling reason to change it. PinkPanda272 ( talk/ contribs) 23:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
No, no, no!!! Elections to this body are referred to general elections as set out (in legislation & law) as noted in the Scotland Act 1999 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/part/I/crossheading/general-elections - we need to follow this. Ciaran.london ( talk) 17:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources). A quick Google for "2021 Scottish Parliament election" (exact words) returns over 14,000 results, while "2021 Scottish general election" only returns 600 or so. Results for the first option include STV News, The SNP, Holyrood Magazine and The Herald. This doesn't include any variations, such as putting 2021 at the end or pluralising "election". Most results for the second option are blogs and constituency party websites, although there is a recruitment tweet mentioning it from the Scottish Parliament themselves. With this in mind, it seems to me like the best option is what's currently there. PinkPanda272 ( talk/ contribs) 22:14, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Such a joke, honestly. We should be referring the elections to the legal names. Politicsnerd123 ( talk) 15:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:06, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
Currently this is set on the page as 2026, but I believe it should be 2025, as the Scotland Act still states the elections are to be held in the fourth calendar year after an election. This was only changed for the 2021 election.
Can someone verify this and if so I'd recommend changing? Steviesrk ( talk) 00:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Not really sure why large chunks of the article have just been deleted without debate here on the talk page Moondragon21 ( talk) 17:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Any reason why he’s not on the list of retirements? SNP have announced candidates for all regions and constituencies and he doesn’t appear on any of them, nor has he signalled a run as an independent. -- Jkaharper ( talk) 02:38, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Should Alex Salmond's Alba Party be added to the infobox? Mjroots ( talk) 14:38, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Pinging editors for replies on what I have written above. Helper201 ( talk) 12:16, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Does reliable source coverage of the Alba Party resemble coverage of other parties in scale and kind?, which I think is straightforwardly an application of the principle of due weight. Hard-and-fast rules I think are less useful here (though I understand why there often seems to be a consensus for them on American election pages). I think that right now there's probably the clearest case for a five-party infobox (the parties represented at the debates) and a more inclusive party box in the body of the article including parties which have had less, but still substantial, coverage like Reform UK and the Alba Party. Ralbegen ( talk) 14:38, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
I can see an argument in favour of listing every party standing. The table isn't too big. That said, I would discourage editors from edit-warring rather than engaging in discussion. Bondegezou ( talk) 09:45, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
31 March 2021 (UTC)
I've added All for Unity again. You can't have fringe parties like Animal Welfare Party but not All for Unity. Ofcom says any party contesting at least 4 seats in all 8 regions is a 'major party' that is entitled to press coverage. Suggest that is a fair benchmark to use? goldenbender2 ( talk) 14:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
I've removed parties that are yet to have a consensus. I have also added an MPs column as I think this should be included if we are to list the Alba Party, as it seems to be one of the main reason’s editors are advocating its inclusion. Feel free to move the row around if you think it would look better formatted in another place. However, I strongly support its inclusion in some manor if we are to include the Alba Party. Adding the mass list of other parties doesn't not yet have a consensus and I would strongly oppose it as it looks overwhelming, is superfluous and still raises the same issues about what other parties could be included and where to draw the line. Helper201 ( talk) 16:54, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Appreciate that. I would still suggest drawing the line at 4 candidates in all 8 regions, as per the Ofcom British broadcasting rules. So that'd be the Holyrood 5, plus Reform, Alba, All for Unity, Scottish Family Party, UKIP, Freedom Alliance. goldenbender2 ( talk) 18:24, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Looking at the 2016 parties section, all contesting parties appear to be included. I would suggest following this precedent. Also, I disagree with the inclusion of MPs as this isn't directly relevant information to a SP election (if readers want to find out more about parties like how many MPs/councillors they have they can follow the link to its page). spirit of the squirrel ( talk) 20:56, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Agree wholeheartedly. It's either all or nothing. Deeply unfair otherwise. goldenbender2 ( talk) 11:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
I've attempted compromise by removing the MPs column and including the Alba Party. The only difference is I've added a sub-heading for those parties without elected representation in the Scottish Parliament prior to the election but they are included. Please let me know what you think. Helper201 ( talk) 14:30, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
This is a shambles now. What the fresh hell is "incomplete list of other parties"??? My proposal is - main five parties in the infobox, list all parties with the recognised minimum number of candidates (32) in the article text. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 07:58, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
In my recent edits I have tried to go back to the format used in the previous election – delineating by which parties are contesting both ballots, and which are only on the regional lists. Obviously this still leaves the point of who to include in the tables below. I would agree with an inclusionary approach for that. My major problems were with a) having Reform in the infobox (no clear basis for this) and b) the "incomplete list". Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 08:44, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
Is there a reason there is only constituency opinion polling trend graphs on here and the opinion polls page? Is it just because no one has provided one for the regional vote? Providing one but not the other could end up misrepresenting the situation to people visiting the page — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrinePGTL ( talk • contribs) 20:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
I have reverted 20:31, 5 April 2021 Monkey1987king which removed the note common to other Party Leaders that Hamilton is not an MSP, pending evidence that he is an MSP ... Possibly a long wait. 78.33.185.122 ( talk) 21:06, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
A couple of recent edits have re-added Reform UK to the infobox. I don't understand why. True, they have one MSP going into the election (due to a defection), but they have no electoral history, are recording minimal support in opinion polls and have not been included in the TV leader debates. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 04:09, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
The current infobox is very large, violating the Manual of Style: see MOS:INFOBOX. On an iPad, it takes up well over half the screen. Can we think about reducing it in size somehow? The map at the bottom, could that be smaller or laid out differently? Bondegezou ( talk) 08:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:02, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Wikipedia page on overhang seats deals with ways to redress the problem when a mixed-member proportional system, such as is used in Germany and (with slight differences) in Scotland fails to deliver a proportional result. One reason why this may happen is when one party in a region takes all, or nearly all, of the constituency seats, which gives it more seats than it would be entitled to under a proportional system. The Scottish and Welsh systems allow the over- and under-representation which results. This has actually occurred in the South East Wales Region in 2016 and 2007. In other countries, such as Germany, overhang seats are awarded to redress the balance.
The page on overhang seats also mentions the use of "decoy parties" as a device which can exacerbate a lack of proportionality, and so reinforce the need for overhang seats. Is this not the likely effect of the setting up of the Alba party, and its decisions (a) to contest only the list seats and (b) to encourage its supporters to vote for SNP constituency parties? Provided that Alba gains around 5% - 6% of the party list vote in any region, it is likely to qualify for one or more list seats, even if the SNP has made a "clean sweep", or nearly so, of the constituency seats, and thus gained all the seats to which it is entitled on a proportional basis. In the 2016 Election, in some regions (eg West Scotland, Mid Scotland and Fife, and North East Scotland, in the 2016 Election), the SNP had already made a near "clean sweep" of constituency seats, and so did not qualify for any list seats. Should this article - or that on the Alba Party - not recognise that the Alba Party appears to be attempting to take advantage of the "decoy party" phenomenon? Ntmr ( talk) 17:34, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The previous discussion being closed on the grounds 'This falls foul of [WP:NOTFORUM]', I would like some reasoning. Neither of the 2 people closing the discussion has identified what they think is wrong, we just have the pronoun 'This'.
I think that closing the discussion is heavy handed and unnecessary. If someone is saying that I have engaged too much with the original proposer, then say so. If the problem lies elsewhere, then say so. Editors closing down a discussion need to be able to point at more than 'this'. The views of other editors are important here too. 78.33.185.122 ( talk) 12:22, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
The decision to close the discussion without any explanation does look heavy handed, but on the other hand I can see that further discussion on the topic probably is not going to be productive as there seems to be no original source material or evidence to support the claim. While the whole issue of decoy parties is an interesting and probably under-researched topic, this isn't the place to explore it. So why don't we leave it at that (unless any more evidence should become available). BobBadg ( talk) 08:20, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
WP:DROPTHESTICK applies here.
Jmorrison230582 (
talk)
16:22, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
The section on Parties seems incomplete. It states: "Four parties – Abolish the Scottish Parliament Party, Alba Party, All for Unity, and Reform UK – are contesting all eight electoral regions. Five other parties – Independent Green Voice (5 regions), Renew (5), the Social Democratic Party (2), Women's Equality (2) and Animal Welfare (1) – are contesting some of the regions, but not any constituencies." But there are several others that are contesting at least one region, such as: Communist Party of Britain, Freedom Alliance, Restore Scotland, Scottish Family Party, Scottish Libertarian Party, Trade Union and Socialist Coalition, UKIP. Would someone like to draw up a comprehensive list? If not the wording needs to be changed. [1] BobBadg ( talk) 08:29, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
This now seems to be much clearer and comprehensive - so thanks to whoever did this. BobBadg ( talk) 08:21, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
Can we establish a results article for the 2021 Scottish Parliament election similar to the Results of the 2019 United Kingdom general election article so we can one place to view the breakdown of results both locally and regionally thoughtout Scotland. ( MOTORAL1987 ( talk) 06:52, 24 April 2021 (UTC))
Do you think that we've gotten all the results we'll get today? 48 were expected today - and we've only got 44 so far. -- EcheveriaJ ( talk) 19:00, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Please don’t forget to fill in the results article for the Scottish Parliament which is currently listed as a draft article and needs to be upgraded. I have now provided a link to this on the article itself. ( 90.197.116.233 ( talk) 07:16, 8 May 2021 (UTC))
A few accounts, including myself, User:FeWorld, and User:Des Vallee have been going back and forth about the use of the word "supermajority" to describe the result achieved by the pro-independence SNP and Scottish Greens. To avoid edit warring, I'd like to discuss it on the talk page instead of through edit summaries. First of all, the term "supermajority" typically refers to having either three fifths or two thirds of seats. The more accurate term for this result is just "majority," not "supermajority." Des Vallee added two sources [1] [2] and said that they state that pro-independence parties got a supermajority, but neither article uses that term (unless I am completely missing something). Moreover, another source seems to indicate that the use of the word "supermajority" in this context is incorrect:
Overall, the sources provided by Des Vallee do not say that the pro-independence parties got a supermajority. Supermajority has a variety of meanings, and under nearly all of these definitions, it would not be accurate to describe the SNP + Green result as a supermajority. Unless someone can find an RS which describes them as having a supermajority, I don't think there is any good reason to use that term. "Majority" is unambiguously correct and supported by RS. Jacoby531 ( talk) 03:34, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
As I've just said on the Senedd article... we don't have anywhere in the Results showing how party vote shares have changed since the previous election. This is shown in the infobox, but not for all parties and, anyway, information in the infobox should only repeat what is in the article to satisfy WP:MOSINFOBOX. That is, if it's shown in the infobox, it should be shown in the article.
I am loath to complicate the current main Results table, so anyone have ideas how best to address this? Bondegezou ( talk) 13:57, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi WP,
I'm currently working on the completion of the results on the French page of these elections, and I noticed on this page that someone found the invalid votes. I searched over the BBC page (since that's the source indicated underneath the diagram) and I couldn't find anything. So where have you found these numbers, and do you have them for each electoral regions? Thanks in advance.
-- InternauteLambda ( talk) 15:20, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I've updated the overall results to this election in accordance to the official results that the Electoral Management Board of Scotland has issued to the public. They have provided also an excel spreadsheet with turnout, electorate, invalid votes and other necessary information you all need to know. There are discrepancies with the actual final result produced by the EMBS in comparison with the current results as described on this page and by the BBC, like the constituency votes for the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. So I suggest someone does a double-checking on the final results as produced by the EMBS compared with the results as issued by the regions or constituencies. If there are any errors with their calculations, please describe it here.
You can all find the official results by the EMBS here. Kirill.alx ( talk) 19:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
We could really do with a picture of Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater for the infobox. I have tried to add Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater (cropped).png but the size messed up some of the other parameters. It would be really helpful if someone could re-add this image with the correct sizing or another image where both people are clearly visible. The Greens are currently the only party with elected representation in the infobox where we don't have a picture of their leaders and it unfortunately currently stands out like a sore thumb. Any help on this issue would be much appreciated. Helper201 ( talk) 00:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
I wish to improve these election maps in the info box. Overall, the map is still a great piece of visualization. However, it belongs to somewhere in the main article. The map can be improved IMO:
1. The current map displays regional additional member seats on a separate map. This isn't ideal when both maps are squeezed off-center. For Scotland, it's possible to integrate this information into the main election map. This will streamline the visualization and prevent overcrowding of the info box.
2. Remove extraneous details such as the list of constituency names, parliament layout, outcome of government formation, and the flag of Scotland from the map in the info box. Instead, focus on presenting more essential election results.
3. The current map isn't very precises when zoomed in. Clean and well-defined boundaries can significantly enhance the professional appearance of the map. Better base maps can also help users wishing to remix or use parts of the map.
I'm going to be bold and replace the info box maps, moving them into the main article. Please share with me your thoughts! 沁水湾 ( talk) 19:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
In the "Background" section, there seems to be too much not-very-relevant information about other recent elections. It's good that there is a summary of the outcome of the previous Scottish Parliament election (2016), and also stuff about leadership changes, expansion of the electorate, and so on. But do we really need so much information about local government elections, UK general elections, elections to the European Parliament, etc?
In the absence of a consensus to the contrary, I propose to replace all of the above with short summary - perhaps as a series of bullet points - along with wikilinks to other relevant articles.
Please let me know what you think. Mike Marchmont ( talk) 14:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2021 Scottish Parliament election article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in Scottish English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move the article has been established within the RM time period and thus defaulting to not moved. Additionally, a stronger consensus to not move was established. ( non-admin closure) — Music1201 talk 02:40, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Next Scottish Parliament election →
Scottish Parliament election, 2021 – None or the previous elections where put under thief 'next title' and had their year on the article title .
Barryob
(Contribs)
(Talk) 06:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC) --Relisted.
Steel1943 (
talk)
23:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
The date for the next Scottish Parliament election was put back to May 2021 because of a potential clash with a UK general election in May 2020. With the UK election now happening in June 2017 (and the following one not scheduled until May 2022), will the next Scottish election revert to the normal four year cycle? Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 19:09, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
'Various organisations carry out opinion polling to gauge voting intention in the country ahead of the election.' is a perfectly adequate summary of the opinion poll article. I see no reason why so much attention needs to be drawn to the SNP lead in one particular poll. -- RevivesDarks ( talk) 18:15, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Next Northern Ireland Assembly election which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 10:08, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
I have been attempting to change the photo of Willie Rennie to a more recent one but haven't managed to find a way for it to clearly fit. I have made two crops of a photo of him here - File:Willie Rennie 2016 (cropped).png and here - File:Willie Rennie 2016 (cropped2).png
The current photo for Willie Rennie is relatively old being from 2011. This photo is from 2016. Can someone either find a way for either of these crops to cleanly fit in the infobox, or crop the original image (File:Willie Rennie 2016.png) themselves and use it in the infobox over the current photo please? Helper201 ( talk) 19:52, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
In preparation for the election next year, I though it would be a good idea to add the list results to each constituency article. It is useful to have this data at a constituency level, and articles for constituencies in Germany and New Zealand (which both use the Additional Members System too) have the results of both votes on an equal footing, for an example see Auckland Central (New Zealand electorate)#Election results.
The current template used in New Zealand articles is {{ MMP election box}}. There is nothing particularly wrong with this template and you can see it being used for a Scottish constituency at Eastwood (Scottish Parliament constituency)#Election results. However the language used on the template isn't great for British readers, as some words like "electorate" have a different meaning here, while others such as "informal votes" aren't really used at all. The design is also different to the current {{ Election box}} template, and to be honest the shading and other elements (IMO) make the table a bit confusing and harder to read.
With this in mind, I decided to make a new template that was better suited to Scottish Parliament (and indeed Welsh and London Assembly) articles. After all, New Zealand is the other side of the globe, and what works there might not necessarily work here. The template uses essentially the same format as {{ election box}}, just with additional columns for the list vote. You can find the template at {{ AMS election box begin}}, and instructions are located on the documentation page. Here is an example of the 2016 result in Aberdeen Central:
Party | Candidate | Constituency | Regional | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Votes | % | ±% | Votes | % | ±% | |||
SNP | Kevin Stewart | 11,648 | 43.6 | ![]() |
10,269 | 45.0 | ||
Labour | Lewis Macdonald | 7,299 | 27.3 | ![]() |
5,381 | 23.6 | ||
Conservative | Tom Mason | 6,022 | 22.6 | ![]() |
6,466 | 28.3 | ||
Liberal Democrats | Kevin McLeod | 1,735 | 7.5 | ![]() |
1,401 | 6.1 | ||
Scottish Green | 2,282 | 10.0 | ||||||
UKIP | 478 | 2.1 | ||||||
Scottish Christian | 208 | 0.9 | ||||||
Solidarity | 88 | 0.4 | ||||||
RISE | 75 | 0.3 | ||||||
Scottish Libertarian | 65 | 0.3 | ||||||
Communist | 60 | 0.3 | ||||||
National Front | 60 | 0.3 | ||||||
Majority | 4,349 | 16.3 | ![]() |
|||||
Valid Votes | 26,704 | 26,833 | ||||||
Invalid Votes | 137 | 58 | ||||||
Turnout | 26,841 | 46.9 | ![]() |
26,891 | 47.0 | |||
SNP hold | Swing | ![]() |
References
I intend to gradually update the 2016 results in each constituency article with this template over the next six months (and I have already done so within NE Scotland region), with a view to having this as the default template used in 2021. If anyone wishes to help out with this, then that would be great.
I'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on this, so if you have any questions then feel free to ask them below. Thanks, PinkPanda272 ( talk/ contribs) 18:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Speedy Moved. other than my oppose there's unanimous support with sound reasoning, so I'll withdraw that opposition and there's no need to drag this out any longer. It can pass as uncontroversial. — Amakuru ( talk) 09:55, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Next Scottish Parliament election →
2021 Scottish Parliament election – Earlier today,
Unreal7
BOLDly moved the page to
2021 Scottish Parliament election, referring in their edit summary to similarly named articles:
2021 London Assembly election
2021 London mayoral election
2021 Senedd election
2021 United Kingdom local elections
. This was later reverted by
Amakuru, with the edit summary: rv undiscussed move (for the third time this year); see talk page - most recent consensus was to keep at the nonspecific title.
The previous discussion at
Talk:Next Northern Ireland Assembly election in July had a consensus against the change. I tend to agree with the first part regarding the NI Assembly, as it is not due for election until 2022. Paired with the unpredictable nature of Northern Irish Politics, and the ongoing COVID situation, it seems that there is a strong possibility that the date will change. However, the date of the Scottish Parliament election looks to be more certain. We know that it won't happen this year, and even with the
new bill that could delay the election by up to 6 months, the latest possible date is November 2021. The Scottish Government has said that they intend to hold the election in May as planned,
[1], so I see no reason to keep it ambiguous on the off-chance that it is delayed further. (Pinging @
Impru20,
Jmorrison230582,
Humongous125,
Bondegezou,
Number 57, and
Amkgp: who participated in the previous discussion.) Thanks,
PinkPanda272 (
talk/
contribs)
22:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
As the current fixed term parliament legislation in Scotland refers to elections to this body as general elections: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/section/4/enacted I think we should change the name of the article to 2021 Scottish Parliament general election Ciaran.london ( talk) 19:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
2021 Scottish Parliament electionis the clearest and has the most RS coverage.
2021 Scottish general electionwould also work, but could be confused with other articles such as 2019 United Kingdom general election in Scotland. All UK devolved legislature election articles use the first format, and I don't see a compelling reason to change it. PinkPanda272 ( talk/ contribs) 23:40, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
No, no, no!!! Elections to this body are referred to general elections as set out (in legislation & law) as noted in the Scotland Act 1999 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/part/I/crossheading/general-elections - we need to follow this. Ciaran.london ( talk) 17:00, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources). A quick Google for "2021 Scottish Parliament election" (exact words) returns over 14,000 results, while "2021 Scottish general election" only returns 600 or so. Results for the first option include STV News, The SNP, Holyrood Magazine and The Herald. This doesn't include any variations, such as putting 2021 at the end or pluralising "election". Most results for the second option are blogs and constituency party websites, although there is a recruitment tweet mentioning it from the Scottish Parliament themselves. With this in mind, it seems to me like the best option is what's currently there. PinkPanda272 ( talk/ contribs) 22:14, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Such a joke, honestly. We should be referring the elections to the legal names. Politicsnerd123 ( talk) 15:57, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:06, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
Currently this is set on the page as 2026, but I believe it should be 2025, as the Scotland Act still states the elections are to be held in the fourth calendar year after an election. This was only changed for the 2021 election.
Can someone verify this and if so I'd recommend changing? Steviesrk ( talk) 00:00, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Not really sure why large chunks of the article have just been deleted without debate here on the talk page Moondragon21 ( talk) 17:37, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Any reason why he’s not on the list of retirements? SNP have announced candidates for all regions and constituencies and he doesn’t appear on any of them, nor has he signalled a run as an independent. -- Jkaharper ( talk) 02:38, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Should Alex Salmond's Alba Party be added to the infobox? Mjroots ( talk) 14:38, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Pinging editors for replies on what I have written above. Helper201 ( talk) 12:16, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Does reliable source coverage of the Alba Party resemble coverage of other parties in scale and kind?, which I think is straightforwardly an application of the principle of due weight. Hard-and-fast rules I think are less useful here (though I understand why there often seems to be a consensus for them on American election pages). I think that right now there's probably the clearest case for a five-party infobox (the parties represented at the debates) and a more inclusive party box in the body of the article including parties which have had less, but still substantial, coverage like Reform UK and the Alba Party. Ralbegen ( talk) 14:38, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
I can see an argument in favour of listing every party standing. The table isn't too big. That said, I would discourage editors from edit-warring rather than engaging in discussion. Bondegezou ( talk) 09:45, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
31 March 2021 (UTC)
I've added All for Unity again. You can't have fringe parties like Animal Welfare Party but not All for Unity. Ofcom says any party contesting at least 4 seats in all 8 regions is a 'major party' that is entitled to press coverage. Suggest that is a fair benchmark to use? goldenbender2 ( talk) 14:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
I've removed parties that are yet to have a consensus. I have also added an MPs column as I think this should be included if we are to list the Alba Party, as it seems to be one of the main reason’s editors are advocating its inclusion. Feel free to move the row around if you think it would look better formatted in another place. However, I strongly support its inclusion in some manor if we are to include the Alba Party. Adding the mass list of other parties doesn't not yet have a consensus and I would strongly oppose it as it looks overwhelming, is superfluous and still raises the same issues about what other parties could be included and where to draw the line. Helper201 ( talk) 16:54, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Appreciate that. I would still suggest drawing the line at 4 candidates in all 8 regions, as per the Ofcom British broadcasting rules. So that'd be the Holyrood 5, plus Reform, Alba, All for Unity, Scottish Family Party, UKIP, Freedom Alliance. goldenbender2 ( talk) 18:24, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Looking at the 2016 parties section, all contesting parties appear to be included. I would suggest following this precedent. Also, I disagree with the inclusion of MPs as this isn't directly relevant information to a SP election (if readers want to find out more about parties like how many MPs/councillors they have they can follow the link to its page). spirit of the squirrel ( talk) 20:56, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Agree wholeheartedly. It's either all or nothing. Deeply unfair otherwise. goldenbender2 ( talk) 11:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
I've attempted compromise by removing the MPs column and including the Alba Party. The only difference is I've added a sub-heading for those parties without elected representation in the Scottish Parliament prior to the election but they are included. Please let me know what you think. Helper201 ( talk) 14:30, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
This is a shambles now. What the fresh hell is "incomplete list of other parties"??? My proposal is - main five parties in the infobox, list all parties with the recognised minimum number of candidates (32) in the article text. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 07:58, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
In my recent edits I have tried to go back to the format used in the previous election – delineating by which parties are contesting both ballots, and which are only on the regional lists. Obviously this still leaves the point of who to include in the tables below. I would agree with an inclusionary approach for that. My major problems were with a) having Reform in the infobox (no clear basis for this) and b) the "incomplete list". Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 08:44, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
Is there a reason there is only constituency opinion polling trend graphs on here and the opinion polls page? Is it just because no one has provided one for the regional vote? Providing one but not the other could end up misrepresenting the situation to people visiting the page — Preceding unsigned comment added by TrinePGTL ( talk • contribs) 20:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
I have reverted 20:31, 5 April 2021 Monkey1987king which removed the note common to other Party Leaders that Hamilton is not an MSP, pending evidence that he is an MSP ... Possibly a long wait. 78.33.185.122 ( talk) 21:06, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
A couple of recent edits have re-added Reform UK to the infobox. I don't understand why. True, they have one MSP going into the election (due to a defection), but they have no electoral history, are recording minimal support in opinion polls and have not been included in the TV leader debates. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 04:09, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
The current infobox is very large, violating the Manual of Style: see MOS:INFOBOX. On an iPad, it takes up well over half the screen. Can we think about reducing it in size somehow? The map at the bottom, could that be smaller or laid out differently? Bondegezou ( talk) 08:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:02, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Wikipedia page on overhang seats deals with ways to redress the problem when a mixed-member proportional system, such as is used in Germany and (with slight differences) in Scotland fails to deliver a proportional result. One reason why this may happen is when one party in a region takes all, or nearly all, of the constituency seats, which gives it more seats than it would be entitled to under a proportional system. The Scottish and Welsh systems allow the over- and under-representation which results. This has actually occurred in the South East Wales Region in 2016 and 2007. In other countries, such as Germany, overhang seats are awarded to redress the balance.
The page on overhang seats also mentions the use of "decoy parties" as a device which can exacerbate a lack of proportionality, and so reinforce the need for overhang seats. Is this not the likely effect of the setting up of the Alba party, and its decisions (a) to contest only the list seats and (b) to encourage its supporters to vote for SNP constituency parties? Provided that Alba gains around 5% - 6% of the party list vote in any region, it is likely to qualify for one or more list seats, even if the SNP has made a "clean sweep", or nearly so, of the constituency seats, and thus gained all the seats to which it is entitled on a proportional basis. In the 2016 Election, in some regions (eg West Scotland, Mid Scotland and Fife, and North East Scotland, in the 2016 Election), the SNP had already made a near "clean sweep" of constituency seats, and so did not qualify for any list seats. Should this article - or that on the Alba Party - not recognise that the Alba Party appears to be attempting to take advantage of the "decoy party" phenomenon? Ntmr ( talk) 17:34, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The previous discussion being closed on the grounds 'This falls foul of [WP:NOTFORUM]', I would like some reasoning. Neither of the 2 people closing the discussion has identified what they think is wrong, we just have the pronoun 'This'.
I think that closing the discussion is heavy handed and unnecessary. If someone is saying that I have engaged too much with the original proposer, then say so. If the problem lies elsewhere, then say so. Editors closing down a discussion need to be able to point at more than 'this'. The views of other editors are important here too. 78.33.185.122 ( talk) 12:22, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
The decision to close the discussion without any explanation does look heavy handed, but on the other hand I can see that further discussion on the topic probably is not going to be productive as there seems to be no original source material or evidence to support the claim. While the whole issue of decoy parties is an interesting and probably under-researched topic, this isn't the place to explore it. So why don't we leave it at that (unless any more evidence should become available). BobBadg ( talk) 08:20, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
WP:DROPTHESTICK applies here.
Jmorrison230582 (
talk)
16:22, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
The section on Parties seems incomplete. It states: "Four parties – Abolish the Scottish Parliament Party, Alba Party, All for Unity, and Reform UK – are contesting all eight electoral regions. Five other parties – Independent Green Voice (5 regions), Renew (5), the Social Democratic Party (2), Women's Equality (2) and Animal Welfare (1) – are contesting some of the regions, but not any constituencies." But there are several others that are contesting at least one region, such as: Communist Party of Britain, Freedom Alliance, Restore Scotland, Scottish Family Party, Scottish Libertarian Party, Trade Union and Socialist Coalition, UKIP. Would someone like to draw up a comprehensive list? If not the wording needs to be changed. [1] BobBadg ( talk) 08:29, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
This now seems to be much clearer and comprehensive - so thanks to whoever did this. BobBadg ( talk) 08:21, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
Can we establish a results article for the 2021 Scottish Parliament election similar to the Results of the 2019 United Kingdom general election article so we can one place to view the breakdown of results both locally and regionally thoughtout Scotland. ( MOTORAL1987 ( talk) 06:52, 24 April 2021 (UTC))
Do you think that we've gotten all the results we'll get today? 48 were expected today - and we've only got 44 so far. -- EcheveriaJ ( talk) 19:00, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Please don’t forget to fill in the results article for the Scottish Parliament which is currently listed as a draft article and needs to be upgraded. I have now provided a link to this on the article itself. ( 90.197.116.233 ( talk) 07:16, 8 May 2021 (UTC))
A few accounts, including myself, User:FeWorld, and User:Des Vallee have been going back and forth about the use of the word "supermajority" to describe the result achieved by the pro-independence SNP and Scottish Greens. To avoid edit warring, I'd like to discuss it on the talk page instead of through edit summaries. First of all, the term "supermajority" typically refers to having either three fifths or two thirds of seats. The more accurate term for this result is just "majority," not "supermajority." Des Vallee added two sources [1] [2] and said that they state that pro-independence parties got a supermajority, but neither article uses that term (unless I am completely missing something). Moreover, another source seems to indicate that the use of the word "supermajority" in this context is incorrect:
Overall, the sources provided by Des Vallee do not say that the pro-independence parties got a supermajority. Supermajority has a variety of meanings, and under nearly all of these definitions, it would not be accurate to describe the SNP + Green result as a supermajority. Unless someone can find an RS which describes them as having a supermajority, I don't think there is any good reason to use that term. "Majority" is unambiguously correct and supported by RS. Jacoby531 ( talk) 03:34, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
As I've just said on the Senedd article... we don't have anywhere in the Results showing how party vote shares have changed since the previous election. This is shown in the infobox, but not for all parties and, anyway, information in the infobox should only repeat what is in the article to satisfy WP:MOSINFOBOX. That is, if it's shown in the infobox, it should be shown in the article.
I am loath to complicate the current main Results table, so anyone have ideas how best to address this? Bondegezou ( talk) 13:57, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi WP,
I'm currently working on the completion of the results on the French page of these elections, and I noticed on this page that someone found the invalid votes. I searched over the BBC page (since that's the source indicated underneath the diagram) and I couldn't find anything. So where have you found these numbers, and do you have them for each electoral regions? Thanks in advance.
-- InternauteLambda ( talk) 15:20, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I've updated the overall results to this election in accordance to the official results that the Electoral Management Board of Scotland has issued to the public. They have provided also an excel spreadsheet with turnout, electorate, invalid votes and other necessary information you all need to know. There are discrepancies with the actual final result produced by the EMBS in comparison with the current results as described on this page and by the BBC, like the constituency votes for the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. So I suggest someone does a double-checking on the final results as produced by the EMBS compared with the results as issued by the regions or constituencies. If there are any errors with their calculations, please describe it here.
You can all find the official results by the EMBS here. Kirill.alx ( talk) 19:07, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
We could really do with a picture of Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater for the infobox. I have tried to add Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater (cropped).png but the size messed up some of the other parameters. It would be really helpful if someone could re-add this image with the correct sizing or another image where both people are clearly visible. The Greens are currently the only party with elected representation in the infobox where we don't have a picture of their leaders and it unfortunately currently stands out like a sore thumb. Any help on this issue would be much appreciated. Helper201 ( talk) 00:50, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |title=
(
help)
I wish to improve these election maps in the info box. Overall, the map is still a great piece of visualization. However, it belongs to somewhere in the main article. The map can be improved IMO:
1. The current map displays regional additional member seats on a separate map. This isn't ideal when both maps are squeezed off-center. For Scotland, it's possible to integrate this information into the main election map. This will streamline the visualization and prevent overcrowding of the info box.
2. Remove extraneous details such as the list of constituency names, parliament layout, outcome of government formation, and the flag of Scotland from the map in the info box. Instead, focus on presenting more essential election results.
3. The current map isn't very precises when zoomed in. Clean and well-defined boundaries can significantly enhance the professional appearance of the map. Better base maps can also help users wishing to remix or use parts of the map.
I'm going to be bold and replace the info box maps, moving them into the main article. Please share with me your thoughts! 沁水湾 ( talk) 19:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
In the "Background" section, there seems to be too much not-very-relevant information about other recent elections. It's good that there is a summary of the outcome of the previous Scottish Parliament election (2016), and also stuff about leadership changes, expansion of the electorate, and so on. But do we really need so much information about local government elections, UK general elections, elections to the European Parliament, etc?
In the absence of a consensus to the contrary, I propose to replace all of the above with short summary - perhaps as a series of bullet points - along with wikilinks to other relevant articles.
Please let me know what you think. Mike Marchmont ( talk) 14:06, 25 June 2024 (UTC)