This article is part of WikiProject Cricket which aims to expand and organise information better in articles related to the sport of
cricket. Please participate by visiting the
project and
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
2021–22 Ashes series is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Australia and
Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Usually the England tours of Australia have other internationals (ODIs and/or T20Is), so having separate articles makes sense. Here it does not, as all the international matches are Tests, which are therefore just being duplicated in the two articles. This was discussed briefly at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 91#Two Ashes series articles?, but that turned into an
WP:OSE argument ("because we have 2 articles for other Ashes series" is not a valid reason, because most other Ashes series have more than just Test matches)
Joseph2302 (
talk) 17:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Support merge It seems the only thing the first article contains that the latter does not is the Australia A and Lions squads, and the warm-up matches. There is too much duplication to justify separate articles.--
Pawnkingthree (
talk) 20:23, 30 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - there are still tour matches. It's a shame about the rain, but we have had some cricket.
StAnselm (
talk) 22:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I know that I'm not an "educator" or whatever it is that you guys call yourselves. But I would like to give my opinion on this. I would say that the title of
English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 should be changed to "English A squad in Australia in 2021-22". It's just my opinion, but I think that these two articles shouldn't be merged.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 06:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose merge - The
English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 article includes at least three tour matches: England vs England Lions (match 1), England vs England Lions (match 2), Australia A vs England Lions, and a 4th match which was scheduled for 1 December to 3 December. These three/four differences are the reason why the two articles are (and should continue to be) separate articles.
Chrisclear (
talk) 08:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Those three tour matches would be fine in a section of an article on the Ashes. 3 or 4 non important tour matches shouldn't be a reason for creating an otherwise duplicate article.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 08:55, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
If that was the case (and I still oppose merging the articles), then
2021–22 Ashes series article is no longer named correctly. If a merge were to occur, the article that should be deleted (redirected) is
2021–22 Ashes series, because it is a subset of the article about the
tour overall. I note that between
1992 and 2004, there were no separate articles about the Ashes series that took place during that period.
Chrisclear (
talk) 10:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - there are Ashes series articles for other years, this should remain for consistency. Further material can obviously be added as the matches take place.
Deus et lex (
talk) 23:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)reply
There are also many years which don't have a dedicated article. Throwing out a consistency argument therefore makes no sense, and is just
WP:OSE.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 23:58, 3 December 2021 (UTC)reply
It does make sense, and it's a valid argument. The proposal to merge a page away from the Ashes series is a silly proposal.
Deus et lex (
talk) 08:49, 11 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Support merge Just for the sake of separate article for Tour Matches absolutely doesn't make any sense
Aditya tamhankar 12:31 IST, 4 December 2021
Oppose The Ashes does not include any succeeding/preceding ODIs and T20Is, it is purely the Test series. The English cricket team in Australia article can include those things as well as the tour matches. The Ashes is also a notable cricket event which is usually gone into more detail about, e.g. match reports, summaries etc., in its own article. I am all for producing dedicated Ashes articles for bygone series that do not have them; I agree that they should have them if this was to be an argument.
User:Linkiscool99 11:39 GMT, 5 December 2021
Oppose due to the fact that the tour page includes the cricket matches played in the shorter formats of the game.
2001:8003:E80F:700:5044:E594:7D6F:3840 (
talk) 12:40, 6 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I thought it was ridiculous until I saw the England A team. And also the Ashes Test series had separately articles sjnce the beginning so it should remain separate for the consistency. I suggest this article be name as "England Lions cricket team in Australia in 2021–22" instead as the last tour match has nothing to do with the main England team.
Human (
talk) 01:41, 8 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose Seriously? The Ashes should be merged to another article?
Tame (
talk) 06:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose Reasons provided by other users are convincing.
Gregorytopov (
talk) 23:42, 14 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment I've
been bold and removed the tags for a merger. Two weeks have gone since the discussion started, and most comments here oppose a merge at this time. Thanks. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 10:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Section on umpiring controversy
The section on umpiring controversy is not written in a neutral manner - especially with regards to the comments about Tim Paine.
2A01:4C8:1C01:44A7:1:0:2ACF:4F9C (
talk) 19:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2021
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Do you have an actual
reliable source for this? The sources in the article don't list him as vice-captain.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 10:42, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Who do they exactly list as vice-captain, might I ask? Because it has to be either Buttler or Stokes. And Stokes actually deputised; you would know if you watched the match.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 10:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
I, honestly, believe that Stokes and Buttler are joint vice-captains for this tour, but that doesn't really make that much sense.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 10:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
The ECB have not listed him as such in their squad announcements. What if Stokes doesn't play in a match? Does Buttler become the VC? As per Joseph's post, you need a
reliable source to confirm this. In the meantime, please stop changing it, as you are edit-warring. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 11:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Hey, man. Check
captain (cricket). Some guy wrote Stokes as the vice-captain of England's Test team there. So, I'm just agreeing with him.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 11:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
The
ECB squad announcement actually mentions Buttler as vice-captain :Ten of the 17 will be touring Australia in an Ashes series for the first time, including vice-captain Jos Buttler. Stokes was vice-captain before his break from cricket with Buttler taking his place. Unless a clear announcement is made, it is difficult to know quite what the situation is, though actions speak louder than words / the proof is in the pudding / some other vacuous simile.
Spike 'em (
talk) 12:00, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
If that is correct, then the
captain (cricket) page states something wrong. Should we use the protection policy on it?
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 12:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks Spike - was looking for a VC icon next to Buttler! Maybe the ECB's graphics team can make a "VC/WK" one... :D LugnutsFire Walk with Me 12:11, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
(e/c) Actually, I notice that the page I linked page is referenced already on article BUT even though it has a picture of Stokes on the page, it is dated before he was formally added to the squad,
the announcement of which makes no mention of captaincy status. All we can really say is that Buttler was still vc back in October.
Spike 'em (
talk) 12:15, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
This seems to have become relevant again. Have the ECB actually named Stokes as vice-captain, as it is passing mention of the fact in news report that is being used to describe him as such? I have listed them both as VC with a footnote to annotate the confusion.
Spike 'em (
talk) 13:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Scoring notation
One thing I think all Wikipedia cricket contributors need to agree on is how team's scores should be notated. In Australia we always say wickets for runs, while everywhere else it's the reverse. Given that, I am happy to fall in line with the rest for the sake of standardisation and uniformity. Also, should we use a dash or hyphen? e.g. 131–4 or 131/4— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Kingjezza (
talk •
contribs)
Hi
Kingjezza, according to Scoring at the
Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Style advice, we're meant to "adopt the consensus style of writing in the host country of the match" - so wickets then runs for this series. That page section also discusses the slashes.
P.S. Well done to you and others for adding the prose to ready the article for Main Page ITN. HNY!
JennyOz (
talk) 07:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, for series/tournaments solely hosted by Australia, we use 5/150. For any other country we use 150/5.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 09:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the clarification
Kingjezza (
talk) 03:08, 7 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Fourth Test report
Someone needs to write a report for the Fourth Test. Its absence is conspicuous given reports for the first three.
Gregorytopov (
talk) 23:39, 14 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Statistics Detail
A user has replaced all bowling / batting statistics with just the top 5 players per category.
I propose to revert back to the original statistics to give a more detailed overview of the series.
Superawesomee (
talk) 01:12, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
No thanks, full figures would be excessive.
Spike 'em (
talk) 01:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Can I have another opinion other than from Spike em? As he is the one that made the cuts in the first place. I definitely prefer the addition detail.
Superawesomee (
talk) 07:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
If you show me another cricket article that goes into such detail then I'll happily drop my objection.
Spike 'em (
talk) 08:24, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Top 5 is fine, we don't need every person's figures as that violates
WP:NOTSTATS.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 09:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is part of WikiProject Cricket which aims to expand and organise information better in articles related to the sport of
cricket. Please participate by visiting the
project and
talk pages for more details.CricketWikipedia:WikiProject CricketTemplate:WikiProject Cricketcricket articles
There is a toolserver based
WikiProject Cricket cleanup list that automatically updates weekly to show all articles covered by this project which are marked with cleanup tags. (also available in
one big list and in
CSV format)
This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
2021–22 Ashes series is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Australia and
Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Usually the England tours of Australia have other internationals (ODIs and/or T20Is), so having separate articles makes sense. Here it does not, as all the international matches are Tests, which are therefore just being duplicated in the two articles. This was discussed briefly at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 91#Two Ashes series articles?, but that turned into an
WP:OSE argument ("because we have 2 articles for other Ashes series" is not a valid reason, because most other Ashes series have more than just Test matches)
Joseph2302 (
talk) 17:46, 30 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Support merge It seems the only thing the first article contains that the latter does not is the Australia A and Lions squads, and the warm-up matches. There is too much duplication to justify separate articles.--
Pawnkingthree (
talk) 20:23, 30 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - there are still tour matches. It's a shame about the rain, but we have had some cricket.
StAnselm (
talk) 22:10, 30 November 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I know that I'm not an "educator" or whatever it is that you guys call yourselves. But I would like to give my opinion on this. I would say that the title of
English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 should be changed to "English A squad in Australia in 2021-22". It's just my opinion, but I think that these two articles shouldn't be merged.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 06:46, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose merge - The
English cricket team in Australia in 2021–22 article includes at least three tour matches: England vs England Lions (match 1), England vs England Lions (match 2), Australia A vs England Lions, and a 4th match which was scheduled for 1 December to 3 December. These three/four differences are the reason why the two articles are (and should continue to be) separate articles.
Chrisclear (
talk) 08:41, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Those three tour matches would be fine in a section of an article on the Ashes. 3 or 4 non important tour matches shouldn't be a reason for creating an otherwise duplicate article.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 08:55, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
If that was the case (and I still oppose merging the articles), then
2021–22 Ashes series article is no longer named correctly. If a merge were to occur, the article that should be deleted (redirected) is
2021–22 Ashes series, because it is a subset of the article about the
tour overall. I note that between
1992 and 2004, there were no separate articles about the Ashes series that took place during that period.
Chrisclear (
talk) 10:04, 1 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - there are Ashes series articles for other years, this should remain for consistency. Further material can obviously be added as the matches take place.
Deus et lex (
talk) 23:02, 3 December 2021 (UTC)reply
There are also many years which don't have a dedicated article. Throwing out a consistency argument therefore makes no sense, and is just
WP:OSE.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 23:58, 3 December 2021 (UTC)reply
It does make sense, and it's a valid argument. The proposal to merge a page away from the Ashes series is a silly proposal.
Deus et lex (
talk) 08:49, 11 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Support merge Just for the sake of separate article for Tour Matches absolutely doesn't make any sense
Aditya tamhankar 12:31 IST, 4 December 2021
Oppose The Ashes does not include any succeeding/preceding ODIs and T20Is, it is purely the Test series. The English cricket team in Australia article can include those things as well as the tour matches. The Ashes is also a notable cricket event which is usually gone into more detail about, e.g. match reports, summaries etc., in its own article. I am all for producing dedicated Ashes articles for bygone series that do not have them; I agree that they should have them if this was to be an argument.
User:Linkiscool99 11:39 GMT, 5 December 2021
Oppose due to the fact that the tour page includes the cricket matches played in the shorter formats of the game.
2001:8003:E80F:700:5044:E594:7D6F:3840 (
talk) 12:40, 6 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose - I thought it was ridiculous until I saw the England A team. And also the Ashes Test series had separately articles sjnce the beginning so it should remain separate for the consistency. I suggest this article be name as "England Lions cricket team in Australia in 2021–22" instead as the last tour match has nothing to do with the main England team.
Human (
talk) 01:41, 8 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose Seriously? The Ashes should be merged to another article?
Tame (
talk) 06:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Oppose Reasons provided by other users are convincing.
Gregorytopov (
talk) 23:42, 14 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment I've
been bold and removed the tags for a merger. Two weeks have gone since the discussion started, and most comments here oppose a merge at this time. Thanks. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 10:19, 14 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Section on umpiring controversy
The section on umpiring controversy is not written in a neutral manner - especially with regards to the comments about Tim Paine.
2A01:4C8:1C01:44A7:1:0:2ACF:4F9C (
talk) 19:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Semi-protected edit request on 9 December 2021
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Do you have an actual
reliable source for this? The sources in the article don't list him as vice-captain.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 10:42, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Who do they exactly list as vice-captain, might I ask? Because it has to be either Buttler or Stokes. And Stokes actually deputised; you would know if you watched the match.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 10:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
I, honestly, believe that Stokes and Buttler are joint vice-captains for this tour, but that doesn't really make that much sense.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 10:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
The ECB have not listed him as such in their squad announcements. What if Stokes doesn't play in a match? Does Buttler become the VC? As per Joseph's post, you need a
reliable source to confirm this. In the meantime, please stop changing it, as you are edit-warring. LugnutsFire Walk with Me 11:48, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Hey, man. Check
captain (cricket). Some guy wrote Stokes as the vice-captain of England's Test team there. So, I'm just agreeing with him.
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 11:51, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
The
ECB squad announcement actually mentions Buttler as vice-captain :Ten of the 17 will be touring Australia in an Ashes series for the first time, including vice-captain Jos Buttler. Stokes was vice-captain before his break from cricket with Buttler taking his place. Unless a clear announcement is made, it is difficult to know quite what the situation is, though actions speak louder than words / the proof is in the pudding / some other vacuous simile.
Spike 'em (
talk) 12:00, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
If that is correct, then the
captain (cricket) page states something wrong. Should we use the protection policy on it?
Shooting Spirit 007 (
talk) 12:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks Spike - was looking for a VC icon next to Buttler! Maybe the ECB's graphics team can make a "VC/WK" one... :D LugnutsFire Walk with Me 12:11, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
(e/c) Actually, I notice that the page I linked page is referenced already on article BUT even though it has a picture of Stokes on the page, it is dated before he was formally added to the squad,
the announcement of which makes no mention of captaincy status. All we can really say is that Buttler was still vc back in October.
Spike 'em (
talk) 12:15, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
This seems to have become relevant again. Have the ECB actually named Stokes as vice-captain, as it is passing mention of the fact in news report that is being used to describe him as such? I have listed them both as VC with a footnote to annotate the confusion.
Spike 'em (
talk) 13:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Scoring notation
One thing I think all Wikipedia cricket contributors need to agree on is how team's scores should be notated. In Australia we always say wickets for runs, while everywhere else it's the reverse. Given that, I am happy to fall in line with the rest for the sake of standardisation and uniformity. Also, should we use a dash or hyphen? e.g. 131–4 or 131/4— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Kingjezza (
talk •
contribs)
Hi
Kingjezza, according to Scoring at the
Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket/Style advice, we're meant to "adopt the consensus style of writing in the host country of the match" - so wickets then runs for this series. That page section also discusses the slashes.
P.S. Well done to you and others for adding the prose to ready the article for Main Page ITN. HNY!
JennyOz (
talk) 07:27, 31 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, for series/tournaments solely hosted by Australia, we use 5/150. For any other country we use 150/5.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 09:36, 31 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the clarification
Kingjezza (
talk) 03:08, 7 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Fourth Test report
Someone needs to write a report for the Fourth Test. Its absence is conspicuous given reports for the first three.
Gregorytopov (
talk) 23:39, 14 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Statistics Detail
A user has replaced all bowling / batting statistics with just the top 5 players per category.
I propose to revert back to the original statistics to give a more detailed overview of the series.
Superawesomee (
talk) 01:12, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
No thanks, full figures would be excessive.
Spike 'em (
talk) 01:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Can I have another opinion other than from Spike em? As he is the one that made the cuts in the first place. I definitely prefer the addition detail.
Superawesomee (
talk) 07:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
If you show me another cricket article that goes into such detail then I'll happily drop my objection.
Spike 'em (
talk) 08:24, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Top 5 is fine, we don't need every person's figures as that violates
WP:NOTSTATS.
Joseph2302 (
talk) 09:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply