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An islamist commits a terrorist act in 2018, while shouting "“Allahu Akbar” before opening fire at a Christmas market. Yet, when I add the category "Islamic terrorist incidents in 2018", it is reverted. Why is that? Jeff5102 ( talk) 15:55, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
As stated above: The following facts have been established without a doubt, and reported by the BBC, the NYT, the Guardian, CNN, etc.
All this is mentioned in the article. Moreover, Christmas markets are a target of ISIL fighters, just see the 2016 Berlin truck attack, which is categorized under Islamic terrorist incidents in 2016, even though the perpetrator was killed before facing trial too. I really don't see your problem here. Jeff5102 ( talk) 16:34, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I completely get that the exercise here is to establish what the sources say and not what we personally think the truth is. That said, surely the following sources establish that this was an Islamist terrorist attack (as opposed to a mere terrorist attack):
The following sources (BBC and CNN) both report that the attacker had pledged allegiance to IS in a video just before the attack: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46660217 https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/22/europe/france-strasbourg-attacker-intl/index.html
Furthermore, the following source (the Guardian) reports that French police are characterising the attacker as a 'gangster-jihadist'. The article further acknowledges the attacker's apparent fall into 'Islamic extremism':
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/cherif-chekkat-who-is-the-strasbourg-shooting-suspect
Are these sufficient? If not, please educate me as to why. (Genuine question - happy to be educated if I'm wrong). Gwandon34 ( talk) 21:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Petter Nesser, is a researcher at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI). He includes the Strasbourg attack in his article about Islamic Terrorism published by the US Combating Terrorism Center. If he includes the attack in this category, enWP editors are obliged to follow sources - not ignore them. And no, enWP editors are under no obligation to wait a really long time for Europol, when other sources are available. AadaamS ( talk) 06:11, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
does not necessarily align with other sources- which sources are you referring to? Please link them to provide a concrete example relevant to this discussion. Editors are obliged to rank Nesser's authoritative writing over the opinion of anonymous Wikipedia editors. AadaamS ( talk) 05:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
According to the inquiry, Chekatt had been preparing the attack "for several weeks" (À la veille du drame, il était depuis plusieurs semaines en plein préparatifs, selon les derniers développements de l’enquête judiciaire.).
And it seems that both his father and his older brother Sami were supportive ( Quant au père, Ange Chekatt, âgé de 71 ans, il a prévenu son fils, par SMS, qu'il était recherché par les gendarmes, au matin du 11 décembre, qualifiant les forces de l'ordre de "chiens". Il a d'autre part décrit son fils comme un « bon musulman », assure Le Monde.
Reste enfin la question de l'influence qu'aurait pu avoir Sami Chekatt, frère aîné du terroriste, expatrié en Algérie [...], tout en s'inscrivant dans "la mouvance islamiste radicale". "L’exploitation d’un téléphone lui ayant appartenu a par ailleurs mis en exergue des contenus de propagande de l’EI", rappelle le journal.)
Edelseider (
talk) 21:14, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
The consensus is to include 2018 Strasbourg attack in Category:Islamic terrorism.
Petter Nesser, is a researcher at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI). He includes the Strasbourg attack in his article about Islamic Terrorism published by the US Combating Terrorism Center. Because Nesser is an expert this article should be placed in the "Category:Islamic Terrorism". See also opposing arguments in the previous discussion. AadaamS ( talk) 05:30, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
It is getting ridiculous, even worrisome, that some contributors still feel the urge to deny as quick as possible that these murders had anything to do with Islamic terrorism:
[1]. There should be no question about this now, it is well documented. --
Edelseider (
talk) 13:41, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
NB: If
Kingsif (
talk ·
contribs) doesn't respond or react, I will undo his edit. --
Edelseider (
talk) 14:51, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2018 Strasbourg attack article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2Auto-archiving period: 28 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | A news item involving 2018 Strasbourg attack was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 13 December 2018. | ![]() |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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This page has archives. Sections older than 28 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
An islamist commits a terrorist act in 2018, while shouting "“Allahu Akbar” before opening fire at a Christmas market. Yet, when I add the category "Islamic terrorist incidents in 2018", it is reverted. Why is that? Jeff5102 ( talk) 15:55, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
As stated above: The following facts have been established without a doubt, and reported by the BBC, the NYT, the Guardian, CNN, etc.
All this is mentioned in the article. Moreover, Christmas markets are a target of ISIL fighters, just see the 2016 Berlin truck attack, which is categorized under Islamic terrorist incidents in 2016, even though the perpetrator was killed before facing trial too. I really don't see your problem here. Jeff5102 ( talk) 16:34, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
I completely get that the exercise here is to establish what the sources say and not what we personally think the truth is. That said, surely the following sources establish that this was an Islamist terrorist attack (as opposed to a mere terrorist attack):
The following sources (BBC and CNN) both report that the attacker had pledged allegiance to IS in a video just before the attack: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46660217 https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/22/europe/france-strasbourg-attacker-intl/index.html
Furthermore, the following source (the Guardian) reports that French police are characterising the attacker as a 'gangster-jihadist'. The article further acknowledges the attacker's apparent fall into 'Islamic extremism':
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/12/cherif-chekkat-who-is-the-strasbourg-shooting-suspect
Are these sufficient? If not, please educate me as to why. (Genuine question - happy to be educated if I'm wrong). Gwandon34 ( talk) 21:10, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Petter Nesser, is a researcher at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI). He includes the Strasbourg attack in his article about Islamic Terrorism published by the US Combating Terrorism Center. If he includes the attack in this category, enWP editors are obliged to follow sources - not ignore them. And no, enWP editors are under no obligation to wait a really long time for Europol, when other sources are available. AadaamS ( talk) 06:11, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
does not necessarily align with other sources- which sources are you referring to? Please link them to provide a concrete example relevant to this discussion. Editors are obliged to rank Nesser's authoritative writing over the opinion of anonymous Wikipedia editors. AadaamS ( talk) 05:44, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
According to the inquiry, Chekatt had been preparing the attack "for several weeks" (À la veille du drame, il était depuis plusieurs semaines en plein préparatifs, selon les derniers développements de l’enquête judiciaire.).
And it seems that both his father and his older brother Sami were supportive ( Quant au père, Ange Chekatt, âgé de 71 ans, il a prévenu son fils, par SMS, qu'il était recherché par les gendarmes, au matin du 11 décembre, qualifiant les forces de l'ordre de "chiens". Il a d'autre part décrit son fils comme un « bon musulman », assure Le Monde.
Reste enfin la question de l'influence qu'aurait pu avoir Sami Chekatt, frère aîné du terroriste, expatrié en Algérie [...], tout en s'inscrivant dans "la mouvance islamiste radicale". "L’exploitation d’un téléphone lui ayant appartenu a par ailleurs mis en exergue des contenus de propagande de l’EI", rappelle le journal.)
Edelseider (
talk) 21:14, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
The consensus is to include 2018 Strasbourg attack in Category:Islamic terrorism.
Petter Nesser, is a researcher at the Norwegian Defence Research Establishment (FFI). He includes the Strasbourg attack in his article about Islamic Terrorism published by the US Combating Terrorism Center. Because Nesser is an expert this article should be placed in the "Category:Islamic Terrorism". See also opposing arguments in the previous discussion. AadaamS ( talk) 05:30, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
It is getting ridiculous, even worrisome, that some contributors still feel the urge to deny as quick as possible that these murders had anything to do with Islamic terrorism:
[1]. There should be no question about this now, it is well documented. --
Edelseider (
talk) 13:41, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
NB: If
Kingsif (
talk ·
contribs) doesn't respond or react, I will undo his edit. --
Edelseider (
talk) 14:51, 6 October 2019 (UTC)