Please stay
calm and
civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and
do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. Ifconsensus is not reached,
other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
This article is written in
British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
This article was nominated for
deletion on 15 September 2017. The result of
the discussion was keep.
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see
this noticeboard.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Explosives, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Explosives on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ExplosivesWikipedia:WikiProject ExplosivesTemplate:WikiProject ExplosivesExplosives articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject London Transport, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Transport in London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.London TransportWikipedia:WikiProject London TransportTemplate:WikiProject London TransportLondon Transport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Terrorism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on
terrorism, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
discussion and see a list of open tasks.TerrorismWikipedia:WikiProject TerrorismTemplate:WikiProject TerrorismTerrorism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. See also:
WikiProject Trains to do list and the
Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Support there's no benefit in misleading article titles, this bombing was not at Parsons Green, nor even the train station, but in a tunnel between two stations.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 16:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
In fact the bomb was in the train while the doors were open at the station (
video) --
zzuuzz(talk) 21:37, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment You know there's a problem when no one has even created the redirect. The problem as I see it is that not many in the UK would call that thing a train, even though it was overground and technically is a train, it's an underground train, or tube (which would still make the title a bit awkward). The examples you provide are all train attacks, not tube attacks (see instead
Category:Terrorist incidents on underground rapid transit systems). Though various descriptions are used here and there, 'Parsons Green bomb' seems to be the most widely used description in reliable sources. 'Parsons Green tube bomb' also appears more commonly than 'train bomb'. I'm not flat-out opposing, I'm just not convinced. --
zzuuzz(talk) 16:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I have to admit you've got a good point there. I do still believe it should be renamed from the current name (it's too misleading), but perhaps 'Parsons Green tube bombing' might be better suited than 'train bombing'. Will that fit with an international audience though? It's people in this country who know it as 'tube', other English-speakers probably wouldn't know since tube is a unique name to London's metro system. --
Gateshead001 (
talk) 22:24, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I'll leave that for an international audience to confirm, but I think you're right that 'tube' is a bit too local. It's also a bit too close to 'pipe', IMO. On the other hand it's worth some serious consideration. This leaves two obvious alternatives: 'Parsons Green underground bombing' - this is complicated by the fact it was overground, and that it was really a London Underground thing. It's also not very common, so '(2017) London Underground bombing' is a bit too vague, and also not a common description of the event. Honestly, I've not liked the title of this page since it was started, but satisfactory alternatives continue to elude me. --
zzuuzz(talk) 05:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Yeah I definitely agree with your last sentence. At this stage 'Parsons Green train bombing' would probably still fit best. --
Gateshead001 (
talk) 17:02, 20 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Tube" will be unfamiliar to general readers; conversely, "train" will be well-understood even if your average Londoner wouldn't call it that. (It's still a train). That said, I don't see a need to move the article. The current title is natural and unambiguous. Similar articles for attacks against subway infrastructure don't specify further. I'd leave it where it is.
Mackensen(talk) 11:50, 18 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I think the current name is clear enough, and doesn't get us into a debate over what exactly the "tube" is.--
Cúchullaint/
c 16:33, 25 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. Exclusionists can go too far in removing allegedly unnecessary explaining-type words.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 08:42, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support its still a train even if you call it the tube it runs on tracks that's a train even if it's underground
עם ישראל חי (
talk) 15:16, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
A very good statement. Even if it's "tube" or whatever, at the end of the day it's still a "train". It's the generic name for that type of carriage. --
Gateshead001 (
talk) 18:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - although technically there is no other Parsons Green bombing to disambiguate against, it does nonetheless seem a valid move to me, per
WP:CONSISTENCY with the other train bombings mentioned and also helps readers to
WP:RECOGNIZE the subject. —
Amakuru (
talk) 21:00, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Evidence
The article fails to mention the evidence, which is especially noteworthy considering his pleading not guilty. So far, the only evidence mentioned in the article seems to pertain to the fact he had lied about his age. Was he seen at the scene of the crime? Were his fingerprints identified? Did he order particular chemicals? --
2003:EF:1709:2942:CDF7:39C7:66CD:40A5 (
talk) 02:52, 13 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The perp along with two other Islamists attacked a prison officer
Please stay
calm and
civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and
do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. Ifconsensus is not reached,
other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
This article is written in
British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
This article was nominated for
deletion on 15 September 2017. The result of
the discussion was keep.
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or
poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see
this noticeboard.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Explosives, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Explosives on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ExplosivesWikipedia:WikiProject ExplosivesTemplate:WikiProject ExplosivesExplosives articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject London Transport, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Transport in London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.London TransportWikipedia:WikiProject London TransportTemplate:WikiProject London TransportLondon Transport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Terrorism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on
terrorism, individual terrorists, incidents and related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
discussion and see a list of open tasks.TerrorismWikipedia:WikiProject TerrorismTemplate:WikiProject TerrorismTerrorism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. See also:
WikiProject Trains to do list and the
Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Support there's no benefit in misleading article titles, this bombing was not at Parsons Green, nor even the train station, but in a tunnel between two stations.
In ictu oculi (
talk) 16:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
In fact the bomb was in the train while the doors were open at the station (
video) --
zzuuzz(talk) 21:37, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Comment You know there's a problem when no one has even created the redirect. The problem as I see it is that not many in the UK would call that thing a train, even though it was overground and technically is a train, it's an underground train, or tube (which would still make the title a bit awkward). The examples you provide are all train attacks, not tube attacks (see instead
Category:Terrorist incidents on underground rapid transit systems). Though various descriptions are used here and there, 'Parsons Green bomb' seems to be the most widely used description in reliable sources. 'Parsons Green tube bomb' also appears more commonly than 'train bomb'. I'm not flat-out opposing, I'm just not convinced. --
zzuuzz(talk) 16:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I have to admit you've got a good point there. I do still believe it should be renamed from the current name (it's too misleading), but perhaps 'Parsons Green tube bombing' might be better suited than 'train bombing'. Will that fit with an international audience though? It's people in this country who know it as 'tube', other English-speakers probably wouldn't know since tube is a unique name to London's metro system. --
Gateshead001 (
talk) 22:24, 17 May 2018 (UTC)reply
I'll leave that for an international audience to confirm, but I think you're right that 'tube' is a bit too local. It's also a bit too close to 'pipe', IMO. On the other hand it's worth some serious consideration. This leaves two obvious alternatives: 'Parsons Green underground bombing' - this is complicated by the fact it was overground, and that it was really a London Underground thing. It's also not very common, so '(2017) London Underground bombing' is a bit too vague, and also not a common description of the event. Honestly, I've not liked the title of this page since it was started, but satisfactory alternatives continue to elude me. --
zzuuzz(talk) 05:09, 18 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Yeah I definitely agree with your last sentence. At this stage 'Parsons Green train bombing' would probably still fit best. --
Gateshead001 (
talk) 17:02, 20 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. "Tube" will be unfamiliar to general readers; conversely, "train" will be well-understood even if your average Londoner wouldn't call it that. (It's still a train). That said, I don't see a need to move the article. The current title is natural and unambiguous. Similar articles for attacks against subway infrastructure don't specify further. I'd leave it where it is.
Mackensen(talk) 11:50, 18 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I think the current name is clear enough, and doesn't get us into a debate over what exactly the "tube" is.--
Cúchullaint/
c 16:33, 25 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support. Exclusionists can go too far in removing allegedly unnecessary explaining-type words.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 08:42, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Support its still a train even if you call it the tube it runs on tracks that's a train even if it's underground
עם ישראל חי (
talk) 15:16, 30 May 2018 (UTC)reply
A very good statement. Even if it's "tube" or whatever, at the end of the day it's still a "train". It's the generic name for that type of carriage. --
Gateshead001 (
talk) 18:14, 6 June 2018 (UTC)reply
Support - although technically there is no other Parsons Green bombing to disambiguate against, it does nonetheless seem a valid move to me, per
WP:CONSISTENCY with the other train bombings mentioned and also helps readers to
WP:RECOGNIZE the subject. —
Amakuru (
talk) 21:00, 7 June 2018 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Evidence
The article fails to mention the evidence, which is especially noteworthy considering his pleading not guilty. So far, the only evidence mentioned in the article seems to pertain to the fact he had lied about his age. Was he seen at the scene of the crime? Were his fingerprints identified? Did he order particular chemicals? --
2003:EF:1709:2942:CDF7:39C7:66CD:40A5 (
talk) 02:52, 13 October 2021 (UTC)reply
The perp along with two other Islamists attacked a prison officer