![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
I wasn't aware of the issue discussed in this new NYT op-ed. To my mind, this makes the Asperger's mention the same as the mother's race: an irrelevant factoid likely to be exploited by ignorant bigots. It's different in that there also appears to be an emerging stigma associating the autism spectrum with mass murders. Should we be contributing to this by mentioning Asperger's here, or would it be censorship to omit it? I have opposed "social activism" at Wikipedia; would I be being inconsisent to oppose this content? ― Mandruss ☎ 08:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:34, 12 October 2015 (UTC) Late to the party, but I agree with the removal of folk-diagnosed autism from the article, as long as amateur diagnosis seems the "best" source for any condition. Darth Viller ( talk) 13:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't see much difference between the autism speculation and the speculation about "overly protective black mother" or speculation about white supremacist. If we're keeping that stuff, we should keep the autism stuff. We do know he attended a special needs school and had psychiatric issues. If his mom said he was autistic, we have nothing to dispute it or believe it wasn't a diagnosis. Special needs schools require professional assessments and she obviously had one. --
DHeyward (
talk)
03:14, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
1
After two minutes of shooting, Harper-Mercer went back into the classroom, walked over to the front area of the room, lay down on the ground, and killed himself.
2
After two minutes of shooting, Harper-Mercer went back into the classroom and killed himself.
― Mandruss ☎ 06:41, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
2 - We don't need this level of play-by-play, only the basic facts. ― Mandruss ☎ 06:44, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a 26-year-old student, fatally shot nine people and injured nine others on the campus. The first two responding police officers engaged Harper-Mercer from outside wounding Harper-Mercer once . He retreated further inside and committed suicide.
But the lead could summarize more body details. There is room for another paragraph (or two). Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 06:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
The first two responding officers engaged and wounded Mercer-Harperis about the same amount of words as saying the police shot him. This provides leaps and bounds of information for those familiar with police response while taking nothing away from average readers. This isn't complicated details such as whether the detectives had ballistic gear or rifles or raid jackets. It's a simple account that relays a basic understanding of what the officers knew without going into detail. -- DHeyward ( talk) 19:00, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
I'd prefer to keep killer issues out of the lead. The killer was half black but possibly sympathised with white supremacists, not Irish but possibly sympathised with the IRA. Note that School shooting#Injustice collectors shows that mass killers aren't rational people, and they often violently punish other people for failures in their life they refuse to admit responsibility for.
Summing up a killer's "grievances" in the lead section shouldn't present them though they were rational. -- Callinus ( talk) 10:26, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Cullen, Dave. "Inside the Warped Mind of Vester Flanagan and Other Shooters". The New Republic. Retrieved 2015-09-23.
CHM clearly found some aspects of the IRA interesting enough to post them on his Myspace profile page, but why he did this is unclear.It's not clear it has anything to do with the shooting. SYNTHing his white supremacist vs. mixed race and IRA vs. UK passport are all synthesized connections. What sources are relating these things to the shooting? We aren't doing a biographical background that isn't relevant to the shooting so facts that haven't been connected to the shooting should not be in the article. In contrast, the press does lots of background stuff that is irrelevant to the encyclopedia. It's not sufficient that it was reported. If we don't know "why" he linked to the IRA, it's really hard to make the case that it's relevant to the shooting. -- DHeyward ( talk) 19:20, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a 26-year-old student, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students inside a classroom where he took classes. Nine other students were injured.
The first two police officers responding to the incident engaged Harper-Mercer in a two-minute shootout. After being wounded, he shot himself dead.
Prior to committing the shooting, Harper-Mercer handed a survivor several writings, which detailed his views and frustrations of life.
The mass shooting, which was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history,[3][4] reignited the national debate about gun control and U.S. gun politics.
Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 20:02, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students. Nine other students were injured.
Two Roseburg police detectives without bullet-proof vests responded to the incident and engaged the active shooter in a brief shootout. After being wounded, the shooter retreated and took his own life. [1]
The mass shooting, which was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history, [2] [3] reignited the national debate about gun control and U.S. gun politics.
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 23:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged him in a brief shootout, and the gunman shot himself dead after being wounded. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer. The shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).
Please reply reply back with your ideas for added content. Cheers! ...
Checkingfax
( Talk )
02:00, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
The Umpqua Community College shooting took place near Roseburg, Oregon, United States on October 1, 2015. A 26-year-old enrolled student, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight fellow students. Nine other students were injured. Two Roseburg police detectives responding to the incident engaged the active shooter in a brief shootout. After being wounded the gunman retreated and shot himself dead. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer. The mass shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
Thank you. Cheers! ...
Checkingfax
( Talk )
02:24, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged him in a brief shootout, and the gunman shot himself dead after being wounded. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer. The shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
― Mandruss ☎ 02:28, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The Umpqua Community College shooting took place on October 1, 2015. The UCC campus is located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged him in a brief shootout, and the gunman shot himself dead after being wounded. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer.
The mass shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Please comment, and provide suggestions to expand the lead to reflect the complete article. Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 21:35, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
The Umpqua Community College shooting took place on October 1, 2015 at the UCC campus near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a 26-year-old student enrolled at the school, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged the gunman in a brief shootout; he committed suicide after being wounded.
I got rid of a sentence and moved the killer's name up to the second sentence, and changed "shot himself to death" to "committed suicide". Titanium Dragon ( talk) 22:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
I received a random invitation to comment on the article, to which I had already been contributing. I got it after I had deleted the comments about police tactics because there was no direct RSS connection supplied between the Umpqua shooting and the more general information about police current tactics. If it's restored, it should be properly sourced. Activist ( talk) 04:54, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
It's curious that no one has added that gun sales went up notably in the Roseburg area following these shootings. This was documented both by the NY Times and other mainline papers. Parkwells ( talk) 13:43, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Sounds like a pretty solid part of the aftermath! Why don't you add it? XavierItzm ( talk) 21:25, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
After the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre by a mentally ill Adam Lanza, whose mother had procured automatic weapons for him, Douglas County Oregon Sheriff John Hanlin had sought national publicity regarding potential restrictions on ownership of and access to weapons by those whose mental problems might arguably make such inadvisable. He wrote directly to the White House to say he would not enforce any such national orders which he believed to be unconstitutional. Three years later, he took advantage of the killings of the Umpqua professor and students a few miles from his offices in his jurisdiction to reiterate his position and thrust himself even more prominently into the national spotlight. Hundreds of his supporters (6,700 quickly signed on to indicate they supported him and would attend a protest rally) protested Obama's arrival in Roseburg. Coverage of the organization of that protest was prominent in the existing and currently cited coverage. Obviously, until Mercer actually walked into the classroom with six weapons which his mother and an "unnamed relative" had procured for her mentally ill and previously involuntarily institutionalized son, the firearms policy positions of Hanlin, Mercer and his mother, Laurel Harper were essentially indistinguishable. Hanlin's 2012 communication with Biden is mentioned in the regional paper's retained coverage of the protest. I am restoring the deleted sentences and do not believe they should be deleted again without support for such removal via an RfC. Activist ( talk) 22:36, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Can someone pick a better caption for the Infobox photo?
The photo in the infobox shows a close-up aerial view of a dozen buildings and road connecting them. The caption says, "Location of Roseburg within the state of Oregon." That sounds more like the caption for an index map.
Please take care to check WP:CAPTION, in particular, the caption shouldn't just restate what the picture shows (that goes in the alt param, for visually impaired readers) instead, it should tell something the photo doesn't. So, for example, Aerial photo of Umpqua Community College campus would be a terrible choice.
The photo is kind of a flat, colorless, and unappealing image. If someone could get a picture of a fine building, or an attractive green on campus, that might be preferable. Mathglot ( talk) 06:22, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Having just stumbled upon this article again, I came to the talk page to encourage editors to consider nominating it for Good status. I see a couple long discussions have just wrapped up, or may even still be in progress, so perhaps right now is not the best time. However, I think this article is still of higher quality and may meet GA criteria, if someone wishes to nominate it when the time is right. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:32, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
On 5 November 2015, a dubious "fact" about the shooting appeared on the Main Page, namely that Christopher Harper-Mercer uploaded a documentary about Sandy Hook to KickassTorrents three days before the shooting. This is media conjecture and not a fact, although he may have done this. If I had known that this had been nominated at DYK, it would have been pointed out.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 12:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
The article states, "The President, arriving on Coast Guard One, was met at the Roseburg airport". Pretty sure he didn't arrive on Coast Guard One. The cited article references Marine One. The Coast Guard One wikipedia page claims that designation has never been used (up to 2014 anyways) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.160.229.247 ( talk) 15:06, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Re this edit: I removed "When he did not take his medications and his behavior deteriorated, she involuntarily institutionalized him at Del Amo Behavioral Health Systems in Torrance" because it is uncited. This New York Times article says that he had been at the Del Amo facility, but does not use the phrase "involuntarily institutionalized". If he had been involuntarily institutionalized, he would probably have been prevented from owning a gun, but we know from other reliable sources that he owned a range of guns. This needs clear cut sourcing.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Was there any update as to the nature of the 4chan post? Was it a coincidence or was it actually related to this shooting? -- Harizotoh9 ( talk) 20:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, after the reader has viewed the infobox photo, what additional information is provided by this photo? That they temporarily closed off access to the building? That there was what appears to be a crime scene investigation trailer in the background? That said vehicle is flying a U.S. flag at half-staff? All seem fairly routine and/or unremarkable. But there's a cool-looking cliff or ridge in the background. Is that enough?
We should be more selective as to images. in my view. 68.97.47.54 ( talk) 05:28, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
For me, at least, the infobox title wraps to two lines. I would like to make it one line by shortening it to UCC shooting (which happens to be one of the current redirects to this article). The infobox template supports a |title=
parameter because it's recognized that there are exception cases where the infobox needs a different title from the article. I feel this is a justifiable use of that freedom. I would have made a bold edit, but I'm still waiting for the semi-protection to be lifted. Just thought I'd make use of that time to "talk first". Thanks.
72.198.26.61 (
talk)
17:26, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Not an editor here but I am not sure this qualifies as the worst mass shooting in Oregon history. See the 1887 massacre of Chinese miners in Wallowa County. 207.55.106.139 ( talk) 04:21, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Should the article state that the perpetrator shot himself in the head, or simply that he killed himself? ― Mandruss ☎ 20:54, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
The lead already states that he "shot himself dead", so it is established that he committed suicide, and that he did so by gunshot. This RfC is not about that content, but whether we should specify later that he shot himself in the head. Perhaps it would make sense to put the less specific statement in the lead, but that can be kept separate from this RfC. The question to be answered here is whether the location of the suicide wound should be mentioned anywhere in the article.
1 - State that he shot himself in the head
2 - State that he killed himself
I don't mean to cause trouble or anything, but why does this need an RfC? Do you plan to make this into a formal RfC or is this a thread you happen to be calling an RfC without an RfC template? Thanks. Dustin (talk) 21:01, 16 October 2015 (UTC) Dustin (talk) 21:01, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
None of the 1 !votes to date have responded to the meat of my 2 !vote, and none even attemtpt to show real relevance for the location of the suicide wound. If RfCs are, in fact, about strength of arguments rather than raw numbers, I hope the closer will take this into account. ― Mandruss ☎ 14:15, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I can see that the RfC will continue to be confusing given the current state of the article. At this point, I'm in favor of the following course of action: (1) Modify the article to put the less specific content in the lead. Say "killed himself" there, and "shot himself dead" in the Shooting section. This should be uncontroversial per WP:LEAD and shouldn't need discussion let alone an RfC. This wouldn't change what we say, only where we say it. (2) Start the RfC again, asking whether the Shooting section should say, "shot himself dead" or something like "shot himself in the head, killing himself". I think this course of action would be more straightforward and less confusing. If we're going to do this, the sooner we do it, the better. Comments? ― Mandruss ☎ 23:25, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Re: [5]
I'll dispute this. x-year-old is often used as a noun in casual speech, but this is an encyclopedia and I think that should be avoided here. (With such a minor thing, under normal circumstances, I probably would simply re-revert with that explanation. But I had a very hard time getting this article unprotected the other day—almost a week with the protecting admin and WP:RFPP, then finally getting some relief at WP:ANI after being ignored and resisted there—and I'm not going to risk losing that.) 72.198.26.61 ( talk) 15:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
I wasn't aware of the issue discussed in this new NYT op-ed. To my mind, this makes the Asperger's mention the same as the mother's race: an irrelevant factoid likely to be exploited by ignorant bigots. It's different in that there also appears to be an emerging stigma associating the autism spectrum with mass murders. Should we be contributing to this by mentioning Asperger's here, or would it be censorship to omit it? I have opposed "social activism" at Wikipedia; would I be being inconsisent to oppose this content? ― Mandruss ☎ 08:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 10:34, 12 October 2015 (UTC) Late to the party, but I agree with the removal of folk-diagnosed autism from the article, as long as amateur diagnosis seems the "best" source for any condition. Darth Viller ( talk) 13:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't see much difference between the autism speculation and the speculation about "overly protective black mother" or speculation about white supremacist. If we're keeping that stuff, we should keep the autism stuff. We do know he attended a special needs school and had psychiatric issues. If his mom said he was autistic, we have nothing to dispute it or believe it wasn't a diagnosis. Special needs schools require professional assessments and she obviously had one. --
DHeyward (
talk)
03:14, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
1
After two minutes of shooting, Harper-Mercer went back into the classroom, walked over to the front area of the room, lay down on the ground, and killed himself.
2
After two minutes of shooting, Harper-Mercer went back into the classroom and killed himself.
― Mandruss ☎ 06:41, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
2 - We don't need this level of play-by-play, only the basic facts. ― Mandruss ☎ 06:44, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a 26-year-old student, fatally shot nine people and injured nine others on the campus. The first two responding police officers engaged Harper-Mercer from outside wounding Harper-Mercer once . He retreated further inside and committed suicide.
But the lead could summarize more body details. There is room for another paragraph (or two). Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 06:38, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
The first two responding officers engaged and wounded Mercer-Harperis about the same amount of words as saying the police shot him. This provides leaps and bounds of information for those familiar with police response while taking nothing away from average readers. This isn't complicated details such as whether the detectives had ballistic gear or rifles or raid jackets. It's a simple account that relays a basic understanding of what the officers knew without going into detail. -- DHeyward ( talk) 19:00, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
I'd prefer to keep killer issues out of the lead. The killer was half black but possibly sympathised with white supremacists, not Irish but possibly sympathised with the IRA. Note that School shooting#Injustice collectors shows that mass killers aren't rational people, and they often violently punish other people for failures in their life they refuse to admit responsibility for.
Summing up a killer's "grievances" in the lead section shouldn't present them though they were rational. -- Callinus ( talk) 10:26, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Cullen, Dave. "Inside the Warped Mind of Vester Flanagan and Other Shooters". The New Republic. Retrieved 2015-09-23.
CHM clearly found some aspects of the IRA interesting enough to post them on his Myspace profile page, but why he did this is unclear.It's not clear it has anything to do with the shooting. SYNTHing his white supremacist vs. mixed race and IRA vs. UK passport are all synthesized connections. What sources are relating these things to the shooting? We aren't doing a biographical background that isn't relevant to the shooting so facts that haven't been connected to the shooting should not be in the article. In contrast, the press does lots of background stuff that is irrelevant to the encyclopedia. It's not sufficient that it was reported. If we don't know "why" he linked to the IRA, it's really hard to make the case that it's relevant to the shooting. -- DHeyward ( talk) 19:20, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a 26-year-old student, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students inside a classroom where he took classes. Nine other students were injured.
The first two police officers responding to the incident engaged Harper-Mercer in a two-minute shootout. After being wounded, he shot himself dead.
Prior to committing the shooting, Harper-Mercer handed a survivor several writings, which detailed his views and frustrations of life.
The mass shooting, which was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history,[3][4] reignited the national debate about gun control and U.S. gun politics.
Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 20:02, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students. Nine other students were injured.
Two Roseburg police detectives without bullet-proof vests responded to the incident and engaged the active shooter in a brief shootout. After being wounded, the shooter retreated and took his own life. [1]
The mass shooting, which was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history, [2] [3] reignited the national debate about gun control and U.S. gun politics.
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 23:33, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged him in a brief shootout, and the gunman shot himself dead after being wounded. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer. The shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).
Please reply reply back with your ideas for added content. Cheers! ...
Checkingfax
( Talk )
02:00, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
The Umpqua Community College shooting took place near Roseburg, Oregon, United States on October 1, 2015. A 26-year-old enrolled student, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight fellow students. Nine other students were injured. Two Roseburg police detectives responding to the incident engaged the active shooter in a brief shootout. After being wounded the gunman retreated and shot himself dead. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer. The mass shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
Thank you. Cheers! ...
Checkingfax
( Talk )
02:24, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
On October 1, 2015, a mass shooting took place at Umpqua Community College, located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged him in a brief shootout, and the gunman shot himself dead after being wounded. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer. The shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
― Mandruss ☎ 02:28, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The Umpqua Community College shooting took place on October 1, 2015. The UCC campus is located near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. A 26-year-old enrolled student fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged him in a brief shootout, and the gunman shot himself dead after being wounded. The shooter was later identified as Christopher Harper-Mercer.
The mass shooting was the deadliest in Oregon's modern history. [1] [2]
References
KGW.Shooting
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Please comment, and provide suggestions to expand the lead to reflect the complete article. Cheers! ... Checkingfax ( Talk ) 21:35, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
The Umpqua Community College shooting took place on October 1, 2015 at the UCC campus near Roseburg, Oregon, United States. Christopher Harper-Mercer, a 26-year-old student enrolled at the school, fatally shot an assistant professor and eight students in a classroom. Nine other students were injured. Police officers responding to the incident engaged the gunman in a brief shootout; he committed suicide after being wounded.
I got rid of a sentence and moved the killer's name up to the second sentence, and changed "shot himself to death" to "committed suicide". Titanium Dragon ( talk) 22:55, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
I received a random invitation to comment on the article, to which I had already been contributing. I got it after I had deleted the comments about police tactics because there was no direct RSS connection supplied between the Umpqua shooting and the more general information about police current tactics. If it's restored, it should be properly sourced. Activist ( talk) 04:54, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
It's curious that no one has added that gun sales went up notably in the Roseburg area following these shootings. This was documented both by the NY Times and other mainline papers. Parkwells ( talk) 13:43, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Sounds like a pretty solid part of the aftermath! Why don't you add it? XavierItzm ( talk) 21:25, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
After the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre by a mentally ill Adam Lanza, whose mother had procured automatic weapons for him, Douglas County Oregon Sheriff John Hanlin had sought national publicity regarding potential restrictions on ownership of and access to weapons by those whose mental problems might arguably make such inadvisable. He wrote directly to the White House to say he would not enforce any such national orders which he believed to be unconstitutional. Three years later, he took advantage of the killings of the Umpqua professor and students a few miles from his offices in his jurisdiction to reiterate his position and thrust himself even more prominently into the national spotlight. Hundreds of his supporters (6,700 quickly signed on to indicate they supported him and would attend a protest rally) protested Obama's arrival in Roseburg. Coverage of the organization of that protest was prominent in the existing and currently cited coverage. Obviously, until Mercer actually walked into the classroom with six weapons which his mother and an "unnamed relative" had procured for her mentally ill and previously involuntarily institutionalized son, the firearms policy positions of Hanlin, Mercer and his mother, Laurel Harper were essentially indistinguishable. Hanlin's 2012 communication with Biden is mentioned in the regional paper's retained coverage of the protest. I am restoring the deleted sentences and do not believe they should be deleted again without support for such removal via an RfC. Activist ( talk) 22:36, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Can someone pick a better caption for the Infobox photo?
The photo in the infobox shows a close-up aerial view of a dozen buildings and road connecting them. The caption says, "Location of Roseburg within the state of Oregon." That sounds more like the caption for an index map.
Please take care to check WP:CAPTION, in particular, the caption shouldn't just restate what the picture shows (that goes in the alt param, for visually impaired readers) instead, it should tell something the photo doesn't. So, for example, Aerial photo of Umpqua Community College campus would be a terrible choice.
The photo is kind of a flat, colorless, and unappealing image. If someone could get a picture of a fine building, or an attractive green on campus, that might be preferable. Mathglot ( talk) 06:22, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Having just stumbled upon this article again, I came to the talk page to encourage editors to consider nominating it for Good status. I see a couple long discussions have just wrapped up, or may even still be in progress, so perhaps right now is not the best time. However, I think this article is still of higher quality and may meet GA criteria, if someone wishes to nominate it when the time is right. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:32, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
On 5 November 2015, a dubious "fact" about the shooting appeared on the Main Page, namely that Christopher Harper-Mercer uploaded a documentary about Sandy Hook to KickassTorrents three days before the shooting. This is media conjecture and not a fact, although he may have done this. If I had known that this had been nominated at DYK, it would have been pointed out.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 12:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
The article states, "The President, arriving on Coast Guard One, was met at the Roseburg airport". Pretty sure he didn't arrive on Coast Guard One. The cited article references Marine One. The Coast Guard One wikipedia page claims that designation has never been used (up to 2014 anyways) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.160.229.247 ( talk) 15:06, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Re this edit: I removed "When he did not take his medications and his behavior deteriorated, she involuntarily institutionalized him at Del Amo Behavioral Health Systems in Torrance" because it is uncited. This New York Times article says that he had been at the Del Amo facility, but does not use the phrase "involuntarily institutionalized". If he had been involuntarily institutionalized, he would probably have been prevented from owning a gun, but we know from other reliable sources that he owned a range of guns. This needs clear cut sourcing.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Was there any update as to the nature of the 4chan post? Was it a coincidence or was it actually related to this shooting? -- Harizotoh9 ( talk) 20:25, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, after the reader has viewed the infobox photo, what additional information is provided by this photo? That they temporarily closed off access to the building? That there was what appears to be a crime scene investigation trailer in the background? That said vehicle is flying a U.S. flag at half-staff? All seem fairly routine and/or unremarkable. But there's a cool-looking cliff or ridge in the background. Is that enough?
We should be more selective as to images. in my view. 68.97.47.54 ( talk) 05:28, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
For me, at least, the infobox title wraps to two lines. I would like to make it one line by shortening it to UCC shooting (which happens to be one of the current redirects to this article). The infobox template supports a |title=
parameter because it's recognized that there are exception cases where the infobox needs a different title from the article. I feel this is a justifiable use of that freedom. I would have made a bold edit, but I'm still waiting for the semi-protection to be lifted. Just thought I'd make use of that time to "talk first". Thanks.
72.198.26.61 (
talk)
17:26, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Not an editor here but I am not sure this qualifies as the worst mass shooting in Oregon history. See the 1887 massacre of Chinese miners in Wallowa County. 207.55.106.139 ( talk) 04:21, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Should the article state that the perpetrator shot himself in the head, or simply that he killed himself? ― Mandruss ☎ 20:54, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
The lead already states that he "shot himself dead", so it is established that he committed suicide, and that he did so by gunshot. This RfC is not about that content, but whether we should specify later that he shot himself in the head. Perhaps it would make sense to put the less specific statement in the lead, but that can be kept separate from this RfC. The question to be answered here is whether the location of the suicide wound should be mentioned anywhere in the article.
1 - State that he shot himself in the head
2 - State that he killed himself
I don't mean to cause trouble or anything, but why does this need an RfC? Do you plan to make this into a formal RfC or is this a thread you happen to be calling an RfC without an RfC template? Thanks. Dustin (talk) 21:01, 16 October 2015 (UTC) Dustin (talk) 21:01, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
None of the 1 !votes to date have responded to the meat of my 2 !vote, and none even attemtpt to show real relevance for the location of the suicide wound. If RfCs are, in fact, about strength of arguments rather than raw numbers, I hope the closer will take this into account. ― Mandruss ☎ 14:15, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
Actually, I can see that the RfC will continue to be confusing given the current state of the article. At this point, I'm in favor of the following course of action: (1) Modify the article to put the less specific content in the lead. Say "killed himself" there, and "shot himself dead" in the Shooting section. This should be uncontroversial per WP:LEAD and shouldn't need discussion let alone an RfC. This wouldn't change what we say, only where we say it. (2) Start the RfC again, asking whether the Shooting section should say, "shot himself dead" or something like "shot himself in the head, killing himself". I think this course of action would be more straightforward and less confusing. If we're going to do this, the sooner we do it, the better. Comments? ― Mandruss ☎ 23:25, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Re: [5]
I'll dispute this. x-year-old is often used as a noun in casual speech, but this is an encyclopedia and I think that should be avoided here. (With such a minor thing, under normal circumstances, I probably would simply re-revert with that explanation. But I had a very hard time getting this article unprotected the other day—almost a week with the protecting admin and WP:RFPP, then finally getting some relief at WP:ANI after being ignored and resisted there—and I'm not going to risk losing that.) 72.198.26.61 ( talk) 15:40, 23 November 2015 (UTC)