This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Good day seekers of Bible truth. It was refreshing to see Wikipedia's recent article on the major controversy underway worldwide concerning the purported Rapture of the 'ELECT' on May 21, A.D. 2011. KUDOS for calling attention to this very significant event in the TIMELINE of human history. There is a myriad of websites on the internet to research & study to determine for oneself if this 'phenomenon' is in fact TRUE. Please remember to line up any suggestions or terminology with the entire Holy Bible & not just one verse taken out of context~! This user believes the Holy Spirit opened his spiritual eyes some years ago to the TIMELINE laid out in the Holy Bible & has been diligently announcing this belief acting as a 'messenger' or 'watchman' since physical time as we humans understand it is so short. Indexme ( talk) 12:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 08:44, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 08:44, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
2011 end times prediction → Harold Camping Rapture prediction — There is general agreement that this name (2011 end times prediction) is not particularly good, and the one I suggested seems somewhat appropriate. Harold Camping End Times prediction may also be good. (I think "End Times", like "Rapture", should be capitalized.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for considering my recent request to add material to the article. I appreciate all the very prompt responses and understand now the consensus is to keep the article brief. I wasn't sure how to remove the material as you requested, so I just deleted everything. Hope that was OK. I just went to the library to make sure everything was removed. Looks OK. Thanks again. — Wplswger17 ( talk) 20:56, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
I notice that in part of this article, it says that he predicted September 4, 1994 was the date of judgment day according to Harold Camping, and i understand some sources have this date and that date and sometimes they can be a few days off. In page 533 of Harold Camping's book, "1994?," He makes this statement, "When September 6, 1994, arrives, no one else can be saved. The end has come." So i thought you would all take that into consideration as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.132.139 ( talk) 01:49, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
The 2nd Sentence, 2nd Paragraph use of a Christianity Today article is misleading. The Christianity Today article is discussing a previous bit of controversy where Camping told people to leave their churches. The wording in the Wikipedia article would lead me to believe it was discussing the 2011 end times prediction. 68.254.173.126 ( talk) 02:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)Jim Lind
I have rearranged the sections in what I felt was a more logical order. However, this left two separate sections called "controversy" and "criticism". I am not sure if they should continue to be separate or if they should be combined somehow; they are not quite the same thing. What do others think? -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
I would be curious where they support the claim that 3 million people (actually the article says 200 million people, about 3% of the world's population --MelanieN) or so will be raptured. The book of Revelation lists only 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel or 144,000 total, note that all of the people listed are ethnic Jews.
Eav (
talk)
21:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
There is a discussion going on at Talk:May 21 on whether a link to this article is appropraite on May 21 some more opinions would be nice.-- RadioFan ( talk) 21:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Or would that violate Wikipedia:NOR? -- 2.26.74.8 ( talk) 17:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
There is nothing happens ;) 62.209.140.12 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC).
Horses are hung, men are hanged. Good day. 72.25.192.4 ( talk) 19:48, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Dear wikimods: delete this article. I see no reason to cause mass panic over a crazy mans invented math based on an old fiction novel. this is stupid, and I hope he's arrested and charged for a count of assisted suicide for every person that kills themselves over this stupid joke. 174.29.68.196 ( talk) 14:55, 20 May 2011 (UTC) 1LogicalThinker
There have been alot of suicides/deaths because of this nutjob that much is no joke http://www.californiality.com/2011/05/may-21st-suicides-worldwide.html Pyrolord777 ( talk) 07:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Does this really need a separate article or can it be merged with Harold Camping and/or Family Radio? Phildonnia ( talk) 06:13, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Camping has had 2011 for a while now. As documented in Time Has An End (2005), he saw a strong link between the Flood in Noah's day (a picture of Judgment Day), which occurred in 4990 B.C., and the end of the world. From II Peter 3:8, we learn that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." Going back to Genesis 7:4, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." Because Christ, who is the Word of God, spoke in parables and without a parable spake He not unto them (Mark 4:34), we can look at this spiritually: namely, that the waters of the flood represent God's judgment on the wicked of the world, while the ark represents Jesus Christ, who alone can protect us from the coming judgment. (Noah and his family are a picture of God's elect.) Taking all this in, we apply one day as a thousand years -- 7 days = 7,000 years -- and we see that God is telling us that we have 7,000 years until the world ends. 7,000 years after 4990 B.C. is 2011 A.D. To further lock in this proof, May 21, 2011 is the 17th day of the 2nd month in the Hebrew calendar, which is the same day that the Flood occurred 7,000 years ago (See Gen. 7:11).
This proof was known prior to the 722,500 day proof. If you read the tracts that Family Radio is giving out now, in the first one, "Holy God Will Bring Judgment Day on May 21, 2011," Camping goes through this proof. In the second tract, "God Gives Another Infallible Proof....", then he goes over the 722,500 day proof.
I will grant you that based on the SFGate article, you are correct, it does give that impression. But by no means is that article exhaustive or as precise in its language as it could be. But I do thank you, Ashershow1, for adding the "Arguments in Favor" section and working on this page. -- Jeremiah3131 ( talk) 01:38, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Wplswger17 ( talk) 17:35, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Hate to be picky, but according to this Julian Day Calculator, April 1st 33AD was a Wednesday. According to all sources, the Crucifixion was on a Friday. Mesdale ( talk) 16:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
The calculation seeming completely ignores the lost days in the Julian to Gregorian change. If I am right with the sign, the rapture will occur 13 days later. Oh well.
if you do the math properly -4990 (because it was BC) +7000= wait for it.....2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.151.109.200 ( talk) 22:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
When the rapture doesn't occur, can we nominate this page for deletion on May 22? Gareth E Kegg ( talk) 18:52, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Camping is only claiming rapture takes place in May. Since this event is spiritual, even if it never happens, camping will still claim he himself and others ascended to mid air etc in spiritual form. This buys him another 5 or so months until his October prediction of the end of the world. By this time i bet he will have revised (extended) his date. Its all a con. Anglo Pyramidologist ( talk) 20:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
When this doesn't happen on May 21, can we have an agreed form of words for the article, less this descends into edit warring? Gareth E Kegg ( talk) 09:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
We've gone through several iterations recently on claims of reaction of other groups, currently "These predictions have not been embraced by other Christian groups. Most have ignored them". These statements remain unsourced (the source at the end I chopped off of the sentence is to an example of one group not ignoring it). As such, I'm adding a CN flag to that, much as similar statements have had CN flags in the past.
Also, we have a ton of stuff in the introduction section which is not in the article itself, which is against WP:LEAD - most of the lead should be moved into the body of the article. (I'm suffering from intermittent internet problems at the moment, or I'd do it myself.) -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 21:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please consider posting reference to alternative view to 2011 end times prediction. Perhaps in the external links and a brief note that majority of believers do not follow this teaching. http://thedayaftermay21.com thanks.
Thedayaftermay21 ( talk) 20:42, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
According to the “Camping Prediction”, it should be assumed that May 21st will be Insignificant if you’re not a Christian. Here’s why. Christians already believe that Jesus will spectacularly return as King (second part of the Messianic Prophecy) and the world as we know it, will eventually end. Setting a random date to these events doesn’t really change the Christian’s point of view. Neither does it work toward spreading the good news of the Gospel. These predictions only serve to honor and promote Mr. Camping, not the returning King of Kings.
Since Non-Christians don’t usually read the Bible, they probably wouldn’t know that Camping is really stretching with his prediction. The Bible is clear that no man knows the date or hour. Because God wants “faithful” followers, setting a date would be counter-intuitive. Just like you wouldn’t purchase life insurance today if you knew for certain you wouldn’t die for another 20 years. What’s the point? Jesus told many parables about the “Return of the King”. And in each one, the idea of “surprise”, “not knowing” and “sudden appearing” are all prevalent. Jesus quoted the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) countless times. But never once, in all his quoting, did Jesus mention anything about calendar dates embedded in the Old Testament. So why are we listening this Camping guy again? HBCALI ( talk) 14:35, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Here's a nice AP article that was linked on MSN Messenger [1]. Some of the highlights include: Billboards in Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq, Unrest among the Hmong of Viet Nam. Thoughts? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 02:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Glad the article was helpful. MSNBC often likes to write on silly stuff as well as doing serious news. I think Reuters has a similar section called bizzare news or something. Surely there are a few more RSs on this topic. I have asked my girlfriend to contact me if goyim start disappearing in Israel btw. =p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 02:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Quite a few people (see Google search results) label Camping's predictions numerology. I don't know if this particular classification is technically correct, but either way should it be noted in the Criticism section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.5.210 ( talk) 13:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Given that the Rapture is (according to references) to occur at 6pm local time, I have altered the predicted times in line with the international clock here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
It's also worth noting that Christmas Islands does not have a Daylight Savings Time change, where as New York does. It's unclear whether the prediction takes this into account. UTC/GMT is currently London time minus one hour, so 6pm in the Christmas Islands (UTC+14) is 4am UTC and in New York (UTC-4) is 10pm UTC. -- Gordon ( talk) 10:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I would edit the time change thing to have this as the reference instead: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/a_conversation_with_harold_cam.html There is a first hand conversation where he says it will happen at 6pm in each time zone. The other reference is simply someone else "paraphrasing" which leads to all sorts of conspiratorial "Oh he just put words in the guy's mouth" arguments. (I know, because I started one exactly like that... Fortunately, a friend pointed me to the actual source.) 69.200.230.14 ( talk) 23:11, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
This sentence "The related searches "Harold Camping", "May 21 doomsday", "May 21 rapture" and "zombie apocalypse" were also represented among the top 10 positions." I propose we remove the part about "zombie apocalypse" since that is almost certainly unrelated to this man's prediction and rather it is a result of the CDC putting out a joke zombie apocalypse survival guide on May 16th a few days prior. It can be viewed here http://emergency.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp its funny, and has been in the news for a few days now. Smitty1337 ( talk) 13:34, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
A simple Google count seems to suggest that the title of the pamphlet was "Has the Era of the Church Age Come to an End?", not "Has the Era of the Church Come to an End?". Please research this if you can and correct it if necessary. -- 77.187.55.206 ( talk) 16:13, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I am making a request that this Article, 2011 end times prediction, get nominated for Speedy Deletion due to various contrivesry.-- 68.202.56.108 ( talk) 22:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I now know why I want the article speedy deleted. It is because there No indication of importance. -- 68.202.56.108 ( talk) 23:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Under "Official Response" there's a quote from NYPD... (We don't plan any additional coverage for the end of the world. Indeed, if it happens, fewer officers will be required for streets that presumably will be empty)
The article that citation links to doesn't say what their official statement is and certainly doesn't quote them as saying that. Either we should find a cite that DOES show their statement.. or remove the statement from this article.
Thoughts? Crk112 ( talk) 01:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
the date of may 21st 2011 has already came and yet nothing happened i believe its safe to assume nothing will happen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonicrulesreturns ( talk • contribs) 01:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I suppose that if the world ends, it should be noted on Wikipedia and in the Earth article. 198.151.130.69 ( talk) 02:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I suppose Donald isn't the Last Trump. He has kids, after all. 198.151.130.69 ( talk) 04:05, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm watching it live, I don't see any rapturing happening. Safe to say this guy was wrong (again) then? Sellyme Talk 04:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Let's remember folks, the 6pm thing is not part of Camping's prediction. St Anselm ( talk) 04:33, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Either that or the bottom of a bus station toilet seat :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.73.194.245 ( talk) 04:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
It has been reported that Family Radio has made $100 million USD as a result of its end of the world prediction, and that a lot of its followers have sold all their belongings and donated all of their money either to charity or Family Radio. I think that should be incorporated into the article. 75.118.250.122 ( talk) 04:06, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Why aren't the last few revisions to the article listed under "view history"? 68.117.7.179 ( talk) 04:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Never mind, it appears there is a delay. Never seen that happen before... 68.117.7.179 ( talk) 04:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. until a reliable source anywhere in the world reports that there is no rapture activity, we should not be reporting on the lack of reports of rapture as proof that this is not occurring, especially in a "failed prediction" section. that would be original research. since we WILL have news reports within hours either way, just wait for them. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 05:05, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Let's remember that WP:BLP applies here, people. There is a lot of unreliable things being said now that this story has been picked up in the worldwide media. For example, how do we know that Camping has predicted earthquakes? Just because the New Zealand Herald says it, it doesn't mean it's true. So the failure of the prediction based on a lack of earthquakes doesn't belong here. I'm removing the paragraph based on WP:GRAPEVINE - the way the article is constructed, it will look like Camping's prediction has failed to come true. St Anselm ( talk) 05:09, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Why was this section removed? I think it was a very important part of the article. And it did cite a reliable source, the Latest Earthquakes in the World website which is run by the government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.144.63.3 ( talk) 05:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I understand, thankyou for your quick response. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.144.63.3 ( talk) 05:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The report regarding the Hmong gathering in the hills of Vietnam for the return of Jesus Christ is likely anti-Christian communist propaganda. Indeed, it seems the Harold Camping end-times predictions is being used by the Vietnamese government to justifying attacking the partly Christian Hmong. They are, according to Scoop NZ, using attack helicopters to fire on Hmong fleeing into Lao right now. From Scoop.nz:
"Some Vietnamese clerics with ties to the Vietnamese Ministry of Interior, and secret police, have joined Vietnamese government officials in declaring that all of the Hmong protestors are cult members and irredentists, a theme often repeated by Hanoi’s state-run media, and parroted by the official propaganda apparatus, to justify the use of armed force against ethnic Hmong-Vietnamese and Vietnamese Christians who have previously joined peaceful Catholic and mainstream Protestant demonstrations, including demonstrations in Hanoi in previous years for religious freedom and government reforms." [7] -- Diamonddavej ( talk) 05:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not a reliable source, just a heads up. 68.117.7.179 ( talk) 06:04, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
118.90.27.254 ( talk) 06:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest that anyone who finds themselves smiling over Camping being incorrect is probably not the right person to be editing this page right now. Let's remember this is an encyclopedia -- not a newspaper, editorial page, or gloating room. I mean no accusation, just a caution. There are many people who will be able to accurately digest the reported information into an appropriate encylopediac article. The ones who are particularly chomping-at-the-bit to do it may be the ones who need to calm down and let less impassionaed parties deal with it. Wickedjacob ( talk) 06:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The lead currently has the phrase "Camping suggests that it will occur at 6 p.m. local time, with the rapture sweeping the globe time zone by time zone, while some of his supporters claim that around 200 million people (approximately 3% of the world's population) will be raptured." At some point, this will probably have to be changed to "Camping suggested that..." and "some of his supporters claimed that"..., to put it into the past tense. When would it be best to do this? After 6 pm passes throughout the world? Now? Something else? Kansan ( talk) 06:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the current event tag. This article is about the prediction, which was made years ago. Willing to be WP:BRD'd if someone can justify why it should be there however. Pedro : Chat 06:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
All of this article will be pointless. Yay! - Another n00b ( talk) 07:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The sentence: "A civil engineer by training, Camping states he has attempted to work out mathematically-based prophecies in the Bible for decades." does not need the qualifier at the beginning. Nothing in the sentence requires his abilities as a civil engineer. And if you want to get technical, the mathematics he uses for his argument is from highschool at most. I propose the new sentence "Camping states he has attempted to work out mathematically-based prophecies in the Bible for decades." Hamsterlopithecus ( talk) 07:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Why the spin-doctoring of Camping's claims? He stated quite clearly that "when we get to May 21 on the calendar in any city or country in the world, and the clock says about — this is based on other verses in the Bible — when the clock says about 6 p.m., there’s going to be this tremendous earthquake that’s going to make the last earthquake in Japan seem like nothing in comparison. And the whole world will be alerted that Judgment Day has begun. And then it will follow the sun around for 24 hours. As each area of the world gets to that point of 6 p.m. on May 21, then it will happen there, and until it happens, the rest of the world will be standing far off and witnessing the horrible thing that is happening."
This makes the recently deleted references to news sources quite relevant. -- 202.124.74.125 ( talk) 09:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Should the article clarify what is supposed to happen after today? Does everyone not taken up get killed? Why would believers say their children will be left behind? [8] "say their children won't go to heaven". I don't know how we'd source this but it leave me pretty puzzled. Dougweller ( talk) 09:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Can someone explain this to me? 188.221.79.22 ( talk) 10:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that the article seems to conflict with itself. It says that the rapture is to occur May 21, 2011 at 6PM. It is now 7AM EST. I'm not familiar with all the time zones, but unless it's already reached 6PM in another time zone, it should not be past tense. Personally, though, I'd like to slap the people who believe in any form of "The Rapture". Sounds more like a movie title than an actual event. The new movie "The Rapture" will be in theaters May 21st at 6PM! 66.233.156.32 ( talk) 11:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Let this article pass and be enjoyed by people in the future, while proving that Harold's prediction isn't true but yet he predicted it.
Oh yeah, he doesn't even care about the end of the world, since he himself is 89 years old... SonicMasterEX ( talk) 11:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Good day seekers of Bible truth. It was refreshing to see Wikipedia's recent article on the major controversy underway worldwide concerning the purported Rapture of the 'ELECT' on May 21, A.D. 2011. KUDOS for calling attention to this very significant event in the TIMELINE of human history. There is a myriad of websites on the internet to research & study to determine for oneself if this 'phenomenon' is in fact TRUE. Please remember to line up any suggestions or terminology with the entire Holy Bible & not just one verse taken out of context~! This user believes the Holy Spirit opened his spiritual eyes some years ago to the TIMELINE laid out in the Holy Bible & has been diligently announcing this belief acting as a 'messenger' or 'watchman' since physical time as we humans understand it is so short. Indexme ( talk) 12:03, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 08:44, 17 April 2011 (UTC) Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 08:44, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
2011 end times prediction → Harold Camping Rapture prediction — There is general agreement that this name (2011 end times prediction) is not particularly good, and the one I suggested seems somewhat appropriate. Harold Camping End Times prediction may also be good. (I think "End Times", like "Rapture", should be capitalized.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for considering my recent request to add material to the article. I appreciate all the very prompt responses and understand now the consensus is to keep the article brief. I wasn't sure how to remove the material as you requested, so I just deleted everything. Hope that was OK. I just went to the library to make sure everything was removed. Looks OK. Thanks again. — Wplswger17 ( talk) 20:56, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
I notice that in part of this article, it says that he predicted September 4, 1994 was the date of judgment day according to Harold Camping, and i understand some sources have this date and that date and sometimes they can be a few days off. In page 533 of Harold Camping's book, "1994?," He makes this statement, "When September 6, 1994, arrives, no one else can be saved. The end has come." So i thought you would all take that into consideration as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.6.132.139 ( talk) 01:49, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
The 2nd Sentence, 2nd Paragraph use of a Christianity Today article is misleading. The Christianity Today article is discussing a previous bit of controversy where Camping told people to leave their churches. The wording in the Wikipedia article would lead me to believe it was discussing the 2011 end times prediction. 68.254.173.126 ( talk) 02:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)Jim Lind
I have rearranged the sections in what I felt was a more logical order. However, this left two separate sections called "controversy" and "criticism". I am not sure if they should continue to be separate or if they should be combined somehow; they are not quite the same thing. What do others think? -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
I would be curious where they support the claim that 3 million people (actually the article says 200 million people, about 3% of the world's population --MelanieN) or so will be raptured. The book of Revelation lists only 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel or 144,000 total, note that all of the people listed are ethnic Jews.
Eav (
talk)
21:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
There is a discussion going on at Talk:May 21 on whether a link to this article is appropraite on May 21 some more opinions would be nice.-- RadioFan ( talk) 21:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Or would that violate Wikipedia:NOR? -- 2.26.74.8 ( talk) 17:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
There is nothing happens ;) 62.209.140.12 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC).
Horses are hung, men are hanged. Good day. 72.25.192.4 ( talk) 19:48, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Dear wikimods: delete this article. I see no reason to cause mass panic over a crazy mans invented math based on an old fiction novel. this is stupid, and I hope he's arrested and charged for a count of assisted suicide for every person that kills themselves over this stupid joke. 174.29.68.196 ( talk) 14:55, 20 May 2011 (UTC) 1LogicalThinker
There have been alot of suicides/deaths because of this nutjob that much is no joke http://www.californiality.com/2011/05/may-21st-suicides-worldwide.html Pyrolord777 ( talk) 07:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Does this really need a separate article or can it be merged with Harold Camping and/or Family Radio? Phildonnia ( talk) 06:13, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Camping has had 2011 for a while now. As documented in Time Has An End (2005), he saw a strong link between the Flood in Noah's day (a picture of Judgment Day), which occurred in 4990 B.C., and the end of the world. From II Peter 3:8, we learn that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." Going back to Genesis 7:4, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth." Because Christ, who is the Word of God, spoke in parables and without a parable spake He not unto them (Mark 4:34), we can look at this spiritually: namely, that the waters of the flood represent God's judgment on the wicked of the world, while the ark represents Jesus Christ, who alone can protect us from the coming judgment. (Noah and his family are a picture of God's elect.) Taking all this in, we apply one day as a thousand years -- 7 days = 7,000 years -- and we see that God is telling us that we have 7,000 years until the world ends. 7,000 years after 4990 B.C. is 2011 A.D. To further lock in this proof, May 21, 2011 is the 17th day of the 2nd month in the Hebrew calendar, which is the same day that the Flood occurred 7,000 years ago (See Gen. 7:11).
This proof was known prior to the 722,500 day proof. If you read the tracts that Family Radio is giving out now, in the first one, "Holy God Will Bring Judgment Day on May 21, 2011," Camping goes through this proof. In the second tract, "God Gives Another Infallible Proof....", then he goes over the 722,500 day proof.
I will grant you that based on the SFGate article, you are correct, it does give that impression. But by no means is that article exhaustive or as precise in its language as it could be. But I do thank you, Ashershow1, for adding the "Arguments in Favor" section and working on this page. -- Jeremiah3131 ( talk) 01:38, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
Wplswger17 ( talk) 17:35, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Hate to be picky, but according to this Julian Day Calculator, April 1st 33AD was a Wednesday. According to all sources, the Crucifixion was on a Friday. Mesdale ( talk) 16:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
The calculation seeming completely ignores the lost days in the Julian to Gregorian change. If I am right with the sign, the rapture will occur 13 days later. Oh well.
if you do the math properly -4990 (because it was BC) +7000= wait for it.....2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.151.109.200 ( talk) 22:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
When the rapture doesn't occur, can we nominate this page for deletion on May 22? Gareth E Kegg ( talk) 18:52, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Camping is only claiming rapture takes place in May. Since this event is spiritual, even if it never happens, camping will still claim he himself and others ascended to mid air etc in spiritual form. This buys him another 5 or so months until his October prediction of the end of the world. By this time i bet he will have revised (extended) his date. Its all a con. Anglo Pyramidologist ( talk) 20:00, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
When this doesn't happen on May 21, can we have an agreed form of words for the article, less this descends into edit warring? Gareth E Kegg ( talk) 09:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
We've gone through several iterations recently on claims of reaction of other groups, currently "These predictions have not been embraced by other Christian groups. Most have ignored them". These statements remain unsourced (the source at the end I chopped off of the sentence is to an example of one group not ignoring it). As such, I'm adding a CN flag to that, much as similar statements have had CN flags in the past.
Also, we have a ton of stuff in the introduction section which is not in the article itself, which is against WP:LEAD - most of the lead should be moved into the body of the article. (I'm suffering from intermittent internet problems at the moment, or I'd do it myself.) -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 21:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please consider posting reference to alternative view to 2011 end times prediction. Perhaps in the external links and a brief note that majority of believers do not follow this teaching. http://thedayaftermay21.com thanks.
Thedayaftermay21 ( talk) 20:42, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
According to the “Camping Prediction”, it should be assumed that May 21st will be Insignificant if you’re not a Christian. Here’s why. Christians already believe that Jesus will spectacularly return as King (second part of the Messianic Prophecy) and the world as we know it, will eventually end. Setting a random date to these events doesn’t really change the Christian’s point of view. Neither does it work toward spreading the good news of the Gospel. These predictions only serve to honor and promote Mr. Camping, not the returning King of Kings.
Since Non-Christians don’t usually read the Bible, they probably wouldn’t know that Camping is really stretching with his prediction. The Bible is clear that no man knows the date or hour. Because God wants “faithful” followers, setting a date would be counter-intuitive. Just like you wouldn’t purchase life insurance today if you knew for certain you wouldn’t die for another 20 years. What’s the point? Jesus told many parables about the “Return of the King”. And in each one, the idea of “surprise”, “not knowing” and “sudden appearing” are all prevalent. Jesus quoted the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) countless times. But never once, in all his quoting, did Jesus mention anything about calendar dates embedded in the Old Testament. So why are we listening this Camping guy again? HBCALI ( talk) 14:35, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Here's a nice AP article that was linked on MSN Messenger [1]. Some of the highlights include: Billboards in Israel, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq, Unrest among the Hmong of Viet Nam. Thoughts? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 02:25, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Glad the article was helpful. MSNBC often likes to write on silly stuff as well as doing serious news. I think Reuters has a similar section called bizzare news or something. Surely there are a few more RSs on this topic. I have asked my girlfriend to contact me if goyim start disappearing in Israel btw. =p Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 02:49, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Quite a few people (see Google search results) label Camping's predictions numerology. I don't know if this particular classification is technically correct, but either way should it be noted in the Criticism section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.26.5.210 ( talk) 13:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Given that the Rapture is (according to references) to occur at 6pm local time, I have altered the predicted times in line with the international clock here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
It's also worth noting that Christmas Islands does not have a Daylight Savings Time change, where as New York does. It's unclear whether the prediction takes this into account. UTC/GMT is currently London time minus one hour, so 6pm in the Christmas Islands (UTC+14) is 4am UTC and in New York (UTC-4) is 10pm UTC. -- Gordon ( talk) 10:52, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I would edit the time change thing to have this as the reference instead: http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/a_conversation_with_harold_cam.html There is a first hand conversation where he says it will happen at 6pm in each time zone. The other reference is simply someone else "paraphrasing" which leads to all sorts of conspiratorial "Oh he just put words in the guy's mouth" arguments. (I know, because I started one exactly like that... Fortunately, a friend pointed me to the actual source.) 69.200.230.14 ( talk) 23:11, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
This sentence "The related searches "Harold Camping", "May 21 doomsday", "May 21 rapture" and "zombie apocalypse" were also represented among the top 10 positions." I propose we remove the part about "zombie apocalypse" since that is almost certainly unrelated to this man's prediction and rather it is a result of the CDC putting out a joke zombie apocalypse survival guide on May 16th a few days prior. It can be viewed here http://emergency.cdc.gov/socialmedia/zombies_blog.asp its funny, and has been in the news for a few days now. Smitty1337 ( talk) 13:34, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
A simple Google count seems to suggest that the title of the pamphlet was "Has the Era of the Church Age Come to an End?", not "Has the Era of the Church Come to an End?". Please research this if you can and correct it if necessary. -- 77.187.55.206 ( talk) 16:13, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I am making a request that this Article, 2011 end times prediction, get nominated for Speedy Deletion due to various contrivesry.-- 68.202.56.108 ( talk) 22:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I now know why I want the article speedy deleted. It is because there No indication of importance. -- 68.202.56.108 ( talk) 23:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Under "Official Response" there's a quote from NYPD... (We don't plan any additional coverage for the end of the world. Indeed, if it happens, fewer officers will be required for streets that presumably will be empty)
The article that citation links to doesn't say what their official statement is and certainly doesn't quote them as saying that. Either we should find a cite that DOES show their statement.. or remove the statement from this article.
Thoughts? Crk112 ( talk) 01:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
the date of may 21st 2011 has already came and yet nothing happened i believe its safe to assume nothing will happen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonicrulesreturns ( talk • contribs) 01:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I suppose that if the world ends, it should be noted on Wikipedia and in the Earth article. 198.151.130.69 ( talk) 02:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I suppose Donald isn't the Last Trump. He has kids, after all. 198.151.130.69 ( talk) 04:05, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm watching it live, I don't see any rapturing happening. Safe to say this guy was wrong (again) then? Sellyme Talk 04:00, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Let's remember folks, the 6pm thing is not part of Camping's prediction. St Anselm ( talk) 04:33, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Either that or the bottom of a bus station toilet seat :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.73.194.245 ( talk) 04:47, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
It has been reported that Family Radio has made $100 million USD as a result of its end of the world prediction, and that a lot of its followers have sold all their belongings and donated all of their money either to charity or Family Radio. I think that should be incorporated into the article. 75.118.250.122 ( talk) 04:06, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Why aren't the last few revisions to the article listed under "view history"? 68.117.7.179 ( talk) 04:42, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Never mind, it appears there is a delay. Never seen that happen before... 68.117.7.179 ( talk) 04:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. until a reliable source anywhere in the world reports that there is no rapture activity, we should not be reporting on the lack of reports of rapture as proof that this is not occurring, especially in a "failed prediction" section. that would be original research. since we WILL have news reports within hours either way, just wait for them. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 05:05, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Let's remember that WP:BLP applies here, people. There is a lot of unreliable things being said now that this story has been picked up in the worldwide media. For example, how do we know that Camping has predicted earthquakes? Just because the New Zealand Herald says it, it doesn't mean it's true. So the failure of the prediction based on a lack of earthquakes doesn't belong here. I'm removing the paragraph based on WP:GRAPEVINE - the way the article is constructed, it will look like Camping's prediction has failed to come true. St Anselm ( talk) 05:09, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Why was this section removed? I think it was a very important part of the article. And it did cite a reliable source, the Latest Earthquakes in the World website which is run by the government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.144.63.3 ( talk) 05:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I understand, thankyou for your quick response. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.144.63.3 ( talk) 05:19, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The report regarding the Hmong gathering in the hills of Vietnam for the return of Jesus Christ is likely anti-Christian communist propaganda. Indeed, it seems the Harold Camping end-times predictions is being used by the Vietnamese government to justifying attacking the partly Christian Hmong. They are, according to Scoop NZ, using attack helicopters to fire on Hmong fleeing into Lao right now. From Scoop.nz:
"Some Vietnamese clerics with ties to the Vietnamese Ministry of Interior, and secret police, have joined Vietnamese government officials in declaring that all of the Hmong protestors are cult members and irredentists, a theme often repeated by Hanoi’s state-run media, and parroted by the official propaganda apparatus, to justify the use of armed force against ethnic Hmong-Vietnamese and Vietnamese Christians who have previously joined peaceful Catholic and mainstream Protestant demonstrations, including demonstrations in Hanoi in previous years for religious freedom and government reforms." [7] -- Diamonddavej ( talk) 05:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not a reliable source, just a heads up. 68.117.7.179 ( talk) 06:04, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
118.90.27.254 ( talk) 06:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest that anyone who finds themselves smiling over Camping being incorrect is probably not the right person to be editing this page right now. Let's remember this is an encyclopedia -- not a newspaper, editorial page, or gloating room. I mean no accusation, just a caution. There are many people who will be able to accurately digest the reported information into an appropriate encylopediac article. The ones who are particularly chomping-at-the-bit to do it may be the ones who need to calm down and let less impassionaed parties deal with it. Wickedjacob ( talk) 06:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The lead currently has the phrase "Camping suggests that it will occur at 6 p.m. local time, with the rapture sweeping the globe time zone by time zone, while some of his supporters claim that around 200 million people (approximately 3% of the world's population) will be raptured." At some point, this will probably have to be changed to "Camping suggested that..." and "some of his supporters claimed that"..., to put it into the past tense. When would it be best to do this? After 6 pm passes throughout the world? Now? Something else? Kansan ( talk) 06:30, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I've removed the current event tag. This article is about the prediction, which was made years ago. Willing to be WP:BRD'd if someone can justify why it should be there however. Pedro : Chat 06:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
All of this article will be pointless. Yay! - Another n00b ( talk) 07:16, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
The sentence: "A civil engineer by training, Camping states he has attempted to work out mathematically-based prophecies in the Bible for decades." does not need the qualifier at the beginning. Nothing in the sentence requires his abilities as a civil engineer. And if you want to get technical, the mathematics he uses for his argument is from highschool at most. I propose the new sentence "Camping states he has attempted to work out mathematically-based prophecies in the Bible for decades." Hamsterlopithecus ( talk) 07:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Why the spin-doctoring of Camping's claims? He stated quite clearly that "when we get to May 21 on the calendar in any city or country in the world, and the clock says about — this is based on other verses in the Bible — when the clock says about 6 p.m., there’s going to be this tremendous earthquake that’s going to make the last earthquake in Japan seem like nothing in comparison. And the whole world will be alerted that Judgment Day has begun. And then it will follow the sun around for 24 hours. As each area of the world gets to that point of 6 p.m. on May 21, then it will happen there, and until it happens, the rest of the world will be standing far off and witnessing the horrible thing that is happening."
This makes the recently deleted references to news sources quite relevant. -- 202.124.74.125 ( talk) 09:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Should the article clarify what is supposed to happen after today? Does everyone not taken up get killed? Why would believers say their children will be left behind? [8] "say their children won't go to heaven". I don't know how we'd source this but it leave me pretty puzzled. Dougweller ( talk) 09:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Can someone explain this to me? 188.221.79.22 ( talk) 10:12, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that the article seems to conflict with itself. It says that the rapture is to occur May 21, 2011 at 6PM. It is now 7AM EST. I'm not familiar with all the time zones, but unless it's already reached 6PM in another time zone, it should not be past tense. Personally, though, I'd like to slap the people who believe in any form of "The Rapture". Sounds more like a movie title than an actual event. The new movie "The Rapture" will be in theaters May 21st at 6PM! 66.233.156.32 ( talk) 11:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Let this article pass and be enjoyed by people in the future, while proving that Harold's prediction isn't true but yet he predicted it.
Oh yeah, he doesn't even care about the end of the world, since he himself is 89 years old... SonicMasterEX ( talk) 11:21, 21 May 2011 (UTC)