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Shouldn't this article be named 2010 Moscow Metro bombings, now that it's apparent that this was a terrorist bombing and not just some random explosions? -- Tocino 06:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
While I'll admit that using Google translate to work out exactly what a Russian news report says, it's pretty clear that none of the reference sources being used in this article seem to be talking about shopping bags or garbage strewn on the tracks. Risker ( talk) 06:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
As per WP:Terrorist; let's avoid using words like "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" in this article, as it was littered with such terms a few minutes ago. Feel free to use it in direct cited quotes; but otherwise try and interchange "Terrorist" ect. with less loaded and more factual words like " suicide bomber". 92.30.49.49 ( talk) 12:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
"Terrorism" and "Terrorist" are words that should be avoided except in direct, cited quotations, per WP:Avoid. Obviously the background section has been cleaned up and reverted at least once. This needs to be discussed and corrected. Revcasy ( talk) 13:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Though not per any Wikipedia policy nor guideline, I feel that translating the title of Russian source to English would be a great help for readers/editors to identify the references more efficiently. There's no need to translate the whole source, just the title is more than enough. -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk) 14:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Can we please stop with these silly "Reactions" sections that take up a hugely disproportionate amount of article space of each and every major event? The flags of the countries are very pretty, but the same templated reponses issued by each county is just not that informative. If any county comes out in favor of the bombing, then include it in the article. But please stop with all the "condemnations" and "condolences". -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 14:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I attempted to convert the list to prose and cut the quotations of generic expressions of condolence and condemnation, resulting in this version. I grouped statements by presidents, prime ministers, and foreign ministers under the general heading of "governments" (presumably they are expressing condolences on behalf of their government or country...), but kept separate the unique reactions by the National Assembly of Serbia (a moment of silence) and by the Mayor of Belgrade (a letter of condolence addressed specifically to the Mayor of Moscow). Any thoughts? -- Black Falcon ( talk) 19:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I took the initiative and proposed it at The Village Pump, although, in hindsight, I should have put it in Policy instead of Miscellaneous section. But those that wish to support this standard, please visit the section.-- Hourick ( talk) 20:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
"Silly", "Stupid" section...not at all Mr. Brewcrewer. Your views are not shared by consensus, these sections exist in too many articles for you to change it in a whim. Sorry. And there is no need for "a generalized discussion" for something that exists consistently all over Wikipedia. We never had "a generalized discussion" on including photos of facial portraits of people instead of their back in infoboxes either, yet we don't see anyone going and changing that. If you want, you can only make a discussion to change the current state but I doubt you will manage to reach needed consensus. Don't be afraid of wasting virtual paper, it can't be done.-- Avala ( talk) 22:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
So, apparently this is the 10 year anniversary of the 2000 Zhani-Vedeno ambush, but I haven't seen any reliable sources mention it, so I don't know whether it's relevant. Has anyone seen any sourcing one way or the other? -- Bfigura ( talk) 14:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
The photo File:Medvedev - 2010 Moscow Metro bombings.jpg shows Medvedev in a meeting, all apparently paying their respects for something. Is this specifically related to the 2010 metro bombings? I can't tell as I don't know Russian so can't understand the Russian captions. (If it's not related to these incidents, then the photo is pointless.) Can someone clarify? -- 86.41.217.206 ( talk) 14:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
ellol ( talk) 16:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
"Another hoax occurred about an hour after the second explosion at the Ulitsa Podbelskogo station when passengers noticed a Muslim woman entering the train" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.238.235 ( talk) 19:49, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
You are missing the point. The above statement is a quote from the main article and there is a big difference between a hoax and a false alarm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.238.235 ( talk) 18:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
There's something very weird about the description of the bombs as activated by the women with a "call to self" on a mobile phone. After all, it would seem much simpler and less traceable to make the bomb with a simple battery switch. It makes me wonder whether the phones were, or could have been, activated by a call from someone else. And if someone else even could have activated the phones, wouldn't it mean he would have had to have been watching, or set a deadline, or perhaps even put the bombs on the women as unwilling participants and told them that the phones would go off unless they did such-and-such made-up task and then !surprise!. The "someone else" wouldn't even have to be Chechen. Wnt ( talk) 20:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the videos show an action and images are just "screenshots" from those actions (Special meeting and Medvedev attending Lubyanka), do you think we should either delete the photos or the videos? Or at least place the videos down at the bottom? Otherwise it looks messy and blocks some text. Tuscumbia ( talk) 21:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Why was my addition extracted? It is important to know, that this belongs to the series of terrorism by this group. It has history, and background: it is not an isolated occurrence. VictimsWife ( talk) 03:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
I have now added a source, as is asked by you. [1] Many sources sources tell the same. VictimsWife ( talk) 03:40, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
In the article, it says "Additionally, Ramzan Kadyrov, President of the Chechen Republic was quick to comment on the attacks." However, the statement doesn't really say what his reaction was and what he said. I used the his reaction from Reactions to the 2010 Moscow Metro bombings article and added a small part of it to this article. RG104 ( talk) 13:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
If someone knows how to make the text wrap around the casualty list, so we do not have that big blank white space in the middle of the article, that would be great.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 20:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think that it is overkill to have a picture gallery at the bottom of the article? I mean, how many pictures of flowers do we need? Currently the article has 7 different files (6 pictures and 1 video) of the memorials. It also has 4 pictures of walls that are hard to tell what's exactly wrong with them. Thoughts? -- Tocino 04:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The primarily source [2] of hoaxs only mentions Prospekt Mira and Ulitsa Podbelskogo stations in the article but not Begovaya. After googling by the keywords "Беговая Терроризм", I've found 1 source [3] reporting (roughly translated by Babelfish.yahoo) Begovaya and Komsomolskaya stations were planted with bombs but never explodes. I want to know if it was being widely reported by other media so we can put it into the "Suicide bombings" section. Thx. -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk) 11:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The following [4] says he restored refernced info, but simply b/c he found a reference that links the claimants to being islamists doesnt mean its for this. there is a page that talks about the Caucasus Emirate/Doku Umarov, and thence that is the place to link the Islamists tag. Sure, before claims were made the speculation was fine, but now thats its already CLAIMED it can go on the respective wikipedia page which is already links to.
I've no idea who the anonymous editor is above. But an editor has been deleting the phrase Islamist, with RS references that discuss the bombing, from the lede. There is no justification for that, and none indicate here. The lead should summarize the content in the body -- reference to the fact that the bombers were Islamists in the investigation section does not by any stretch of the imagination suggest it should be deleted from the lead.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 04:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
The current edition says "[...]caused by another female, who at the time of the first explosion was riding another train from Sokolniki station in the same direction. At the time of first explosion, the second train stopped between Frunzenskaya and Park Kultury stations.[...]" How could this be possible becuase Sokolniki is beyond Lubyanka and Park Kultury at the far north-east. Who can verify this statement and clarify the trip of the 2nd bomber? -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk) 01:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I have seen several medias that say they were identified. Perhaps other Russian editors would add this to the article, as I have no time to do this just yet. Here are some links: (Echo Moskvy), (Kavkaz Knot), (Trud). FeelSunny ( talk) 12:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
[5] this edit is contradicted by the SAME person here [6]. why the difference? + [7] doesnt explain the relevance of linking every single attack ont he metro. there is a respective page listed for other attacks on the metro and it can all go their instead of adding to clutter. as in the "list of terrorist incidence, YEARXXXX" even failed attacks can be logged in that 1 place instead of having see also to the same palces on every page. + [8] why is so much text removed w/o explanation. it certainly doesnt constitute a "copy-edit"
Coming back to this article as it is still on my watchlist. I see absolutely no basis for the Najibullah Zazi See also link and support its removal. In my view its inclusion is an attempt to conflate these attacks (which were perpetrated by different people in different regions for different reasons) for the purposes of bringing Islam into disrepute. ܥܝܪܐܩ ( talk) 04:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
1) Well, it's not in the template, so that issue is moot at this point in time. 2) I think that Islamist belong in the lede and the body because it is highly relevant. If you think mujahadin should come out, I don't have an issue w/that (though others might).-- Epeefleche ( talk) 06:46, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
[11] in reaction the to the above comment about the new reactions page i moved this to the other reactions page for 2 reasons. 1. it was in line with other attack reaction pages where the media action was listed with the reactions. 2. it was a reaction to the attack (even criticism of such actions) 2.a. it decreases the size of this immediate page as per discussed earlier for people with slow connections.
I've added the Category:Railway accidents in 2010 and Category:Railway accidents in Russia to the article, I've also added {{ 2010 railway accidents}}. I fully appreciate that these events are not "accidents" in the true sense of the word, but as they involve a railway, the addition should be valid. Mjroots ( talk) 09:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Unless consensus is voiced against it, I suggest all strings made up of posts greater than 30 days old be archived.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 06:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is Shariat Jamaat not even mentioned? The both girls were Dagestani and one of them was even the wife (widow) of the SJ leader Umalat Magomedov and the attacks has been allegedly directed by his would-be succesor Vagabov. All of this is basically ignored, instead there's something about "A mujahideen group" (sic) and how "over 5,000 were killed or wounded since 2002" in the North Caucasus (really tens of thousands), about "al Qaeda", Sufis and what not, I tried to read it but my head just hurts. -- Asperchu ( talk) 21:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
The image File:Doku Umarov2.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2010 Moscow Metro bombings article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " In the news" column on March 29, 2010. | |
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on March 29, 2013, March 29, 2018, March 29, 2020, and March 29, 2022. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Shouldn't this article be named 2010 Moscow Metro bombings, now that it's apparent that this was a terrorist bombing and not just some random explosions? -- Tocino 06:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
While I'll admit that using Google translate to work out exactly what a Russian news report says, it's pretty clear that none of the reference sources being used in this article seem to be talking about shopping bags or garbage strewn on the tracks. Risker ( talk) 06:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
As per WP:Terrorist; let's avoid using words like "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" in this article, as it was littered with such terms a few minutes ago. Feel free to use it in direct cited quotes; but otherwise try and interchange "Terrorist" ect. with less loaded and more factual words like " suicide bomber". 92.30.49.49 ( talk) 12:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
"Terrorism" and "Terrorist" are words that should be avoided except in direct, cited quotations, per WP:Avoid. Obviously the background section has been cleaned up and reverted at least once. This needs to be discussed and corrected. Revcasy ( talk) 13:19, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Though not per any Wikipedia policy nor guideline, I feel that translating the title of Russian source to English would be a great help for readers/editors to identify the references more efficiently. There's no need to translate the whole source, just the title is more than enough. -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk) 14:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Can we please stop with these silly "Reactions" sections that take up a hugely disproportionate amount of article space of each and every major event? The flags of the countries are very pretty, but the same templated reponses issued by each county is just not that informative. If any county comes out in favor of the bombing, then include it in the article. But please stop with all the "condemnations" and "condolences". -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 14:39, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I attempted to convert the list to prose and cut the quotations of generic expressions of condolence and condemnation, resulting in this version. I grouped statements by presidents, prime ministers, and foreign ministers under the general heading of "governments" (presumably they are expressing condolences on behalf of their government or country...), but kept separate the unique reactions by the National Assembly of Serbia (a moment of silence) and by the Mayor of Belgrade (a letter of condolence addressed specifically to the Mayor of Moscow). Any thoughts? -- Black Falcon ( talk) 19:15, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I took the initiative and proposed it at The Village Pump, although, in hindsight, I should have put it in Policy instead of Miscellaneous section. But those that wish to support this standard, please visit the section.-- Hourick ( talk) 20:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
"Silly", "Stupid" section...not at all Mr. Brewcrewer. Your views are not shared by consensus, these sections exist in too many articles for you to change it in a whim. Sorry. And there is no need for "a generalized discussion" for something that exists consistently all over Wikipedia. We never had "a generalized discussion" on including photos of facial portraits of people instead of their back in infoboxes either, yet we don't see anyone going and changing that. If you want, you can only make a discussion to change the current state but I doubt you will manage to reach needed consensus. Don't be afraid of wasting virtual paper, it can't be done.-- Avala ( talk) 22:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
So, apparently this is the 10 year anniversary of the 2000 Zhani-Vedeno ambush, but I haven't seen any reliable sources mention it, so I don't know whether it's relevant. Has anyone seen any sourcing one way or the other? -- Bfigura ( talk) 14:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
The photo File:Medvedev - 2010 Moscow Metro bombings.jpg shows Medvedev in a meeting, all apparently paying their respects for something. Is this specifically related to the 2010 metro bombings? I can't tell as I don't know Russian so can't understand the Russian captions. (If it's not related to these incidents, then the photo is pointless.) Can someone clarify? -- 86.41.217.206 ( talk) 14:54, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
ellol ( talk) 16:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
"Another hoax occurred about an hour after the second explosion at the Ulitsa Podbelskogo station when passengers noticed a Muslim woman entering the train" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.238.235 ( talk) 19:49, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
You are missing the point. The above statement is a quote from the main article and there is a big difference between a hoax and a false alarm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.238.235 ( talk) 18:26, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
There's something very weird about the description of the bombs as activated by the women with a "call to self" on a mobile phone. After all, it would seem much simpler and less traceable to make the bomb with a simple battery switch. It makes me wonder whether the phones were, or could have been, activated by a call from someone else. And if someone else even could have activated the phones, wouldn't it mean he would have had to have been watching, or set a deadline, or perhaps even put the bombs on the women as unwilling participants and told them that the phones would go off unless they did such-and-such made-up task and then !surprise!. The "someone else" wouldn't even have to be Chechen. Wnt ( talk) 20:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Since the videos show an action and images are just "screenshots" from those actions (Special meeting and Medvedev attending Lubyanka), do you think we should either delete the photos or the videos? Or at least place the videos down at the bottom? Otherwise it looks messy and blocks some text. Tuscumbia ( talk) 21:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Why was my addition extracted? It is important to know, that this belongs to the series of terrorism by this group. It has history, and background: it is not an isolated occurrence. VictimsWife ( talk) 03:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
I have now added a source, as is asked by you. [1] Many sources sources tell the same. VictimsWife ( talk) 03:40, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
In the article, it says "Additionally, Ramzan Kadyrov, President of the Chechen Republic was quick to comment on the attacks." However, the statement doesn't really say what his reaction was and what he said. I used the his reaction from Reactions to the 2010 Moscow Metro bombings article and added a small part of it to this article. RG104 ( talk) 13:33, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
If someone knows how to make the text wrap around the casualty list, so we do not have that big blank white space in the middle of the article, that would be great.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 20:11, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
Does anyone else think that it is overkill to have a picture gallery at the bottom of the article? I mean, how many pictures of flowers do we need? Currently the article has 7 different files (6 pictures and 1 video) of the memorials. It also has 4 pictures of walls that are hard to tell what's exactly wrong with them. Thoughts? -- Tocino 04:33, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The primarily source [2] of hoaxs only mentions Prospekt Mira and Ulitsa Podbelskogo stations in the article but not Begovaya. After googling by the keywords "Беговая Терроризм", I've found 1 source [3] reporting (roughly translated by Babelfish.yahoo) Begovaya and Komsomolskaya stations were planted with bombs but never explodes. I want to know if it was being widely reported by other media so we can put it into the "Suicide bombings" section. Thx. -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk) 11:59, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The following [4] says he restored refernced info, but simply b/c he found a reference that links the claimants to being islamists doesnt mean its for this. there is a page that talks about the Caucasus Emirate/Doku Umarov, and thence that is the place to link the Islamists tag. Sure, before claims were made the speculation was fine, but now thats its already CLAIMED it can go on the respective wikipedia page which is already links to.
I've no idea who the anonymous editor is above. But an editor has been deleting the phrase Islamist, with RS references that discuss the bombing, from the lede. There is no justification for that, and none indicate here. The lead should summarize the content in the body -- reference to the fact that the bombers were Islamists in the investigation section does not by any stretch of the imagination suggest it should be deleted from the lead.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 04:40, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
The current edition says "[...]caused by another female, who at the time of the first explosion was riding another train from Sokolniki station in the same direction. At the time of first explosion, the second train stopped between Frunzenskaya and Park Kultury stations.[...]" How could this be possible becuase Sokolniki is beyond Lubyanka and Park Kultury at the far north-east. Who can verify this statement and clarify the trip of the 2nd bomber? -- Sameboat - 同舟 ( talk) 01:42, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I have seen several medias that say they were identified. Perhaps other Russian editors would add this to the article, as I have no time to do this just yet. Here are some links: (Echo Moskvy), (Kavkaz Knot), (Trud). FeelSunny ( talk) 12:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
[5] this edit is contradicted by the SAME person here [6]. why the difference? + [7] doesnt explain the relevance of linking every single attack ont he metro. there is a respective page listed for other attacks on the metro and it can all go their instead of adding to clutter. as in the "list of terrorist incidence, YEARXXXX" even failed attacks can be logged in that 1 place instead of having see also to the same palces on every page. + [8] why is so much text removed w/o explanation. it certainly doesnt constitute a "copy-edit"
Coming back to this article as it is still on my watchlist. I see absolutely no basis for the Najibullah Zazi See also link and support its removal. In my view its inclusion is an attempt to conflate these attacks (which were perpetrated by different people in different regions for different reasons) for the purposes of bringing Islam into disrepute. ܥܝܪܐܩ ( talk) 04:10, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
1) Well, it's not in the template, so that issue is moot at this point in time. 2) I think that Islamist belong in the lede and the body because it is highly relevant. If you think mujahadin should come out, I don't have an issue w/that (though others might).-- Epeefleche ( talk) 06:46, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
[11] in reaction the to the above comment about the new reactions page i moved this to the other reactions page for 2 reasons. 1. it was in line with other attack reaction pages where the media action was listed with the reactions. 2. it was a reaction to the attack (even criticism of such actions) 2.a. it decreases the size of this immediate page as per discussed earlier for people with slow connections.
I've added the Category:Railway accidents in 2010 and Category:Railway accidents in Russia to the article, I've also added {{ 2010 railway accidents}}. I fully appreciate that these events are not "accidents" in the true sense of the word, but as they involve a railway, the addition should be valid. Mjroots ( talk) 09:33, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Unless consensus is voiced against it, I suggest all strings made up of posts greater than 30 days old be archived.-- Epeefleche ( talk) 06:49, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is Shariat Jamaat not even mentioned? The both girls were Dagestani and one of them was even the wife (widow) of the SJ leader Umalat Magomedov and the attacks has been allegedly directed by his would-be succesor Vagabov. All of this is basically ignored, instead there's something about "A mujahideen group" (sic) and how "over 5,000 were killed or wounded since 2002" in the North Caucasus (really tens of thousands), about "al Qaeda", Sufis and what not, I tried to read it but my head just hurts. -- Asperchu ( talk) 21:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
The image File:Doku Umarov2.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 04:21, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request it's removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:46, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:28, 18 June 2017 (UTC)