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hi would it not be a good idea at some stage to indicate how many points is needed to guarantee a playoff spot. At the moment group 9 is the only group which can be clearly used to calculate this as they only have 5 teams. however it will become very important in the later stages. Gero13 ( talk) 13:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Earlier today there was a note indicating which pools were guaranteed to have their #2 team finish in the top 8 (though at the time, the note only referred to Russia). I think that would be a great addition. Presently, at least 3 pools are "safe".
76.175.153.230 (
talk)
23:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
France and Slovenia should be shaded as well, since their point totals are higher than Norway's can become. Norway can't gain any more points (done with playing) and are already ahead of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.28.160 ( talk) 19:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Surely the "Sweden will finish second but fail to qualify if they draw with Albania AND..." line is wrong because if Sweden draw, they'll finish with 16 points (10 points against the non-6th placed teams) and +5 goal difference. Norway only has 10 points and +2 goal difference, so Sweden would still go through to the play-offs. I also can't see how Hungary can finish second and not get to the play-offs because even if they only win 1-0, they'll have an equal goal difference to Norway but a higher number of goals scored. I assume I'm missing something here? DragonQ ( talk) 11:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The page at present is somewhat misleading because it concentrates only on those sides that are currently 2nd - rather than all those sides that could be finishing second (it might be possible to see a situation where the team shown here actually has no chance of finishing 2nd in their group - which would be a bit silly then to have them listed for their group but not teams who actually could be 2nd). A similar situation was seen in CAF (where a table shownig all possible runners-up was created). A current version exists on my page. It is fairly long tho. Jlsa ( talk) 00:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
To see a calculation of how the Play-Off could be if all teams in second place and below are considered see:
[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.102.154.63 ( talk) 15:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
There is also an error in the number of away goals for Croatia. Croatia have only 2 away goals, both against the bottom placed side Andorra, so the AG total should in fact be 0.
Who knows, when 8 teams for play-offs are identified, how pairs will be formed? 1 with 8; 2 with 7; etc? Or according to the FIFA ranking? Or randomly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickalex79 ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Portugal being grouped again to tough teams. 2010 WC is really challenging them. ^__^ —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
58.69.218.181 (
talk)
01:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
The article should mention the fact that Fifa originaly indicated that there would be no seeding and that only in Sep 2009 when France, Portugal and Germany were struggling to qualify did they change their mind and introduce seeding, helping the bigger teams avoid eachother. It seems that Fifa were motivated by the fact that they could get more money from TV rights if Germany and France qualified and they wanted to do all they could to ensure that Portugal qualify so that the world's most marketable player, Ronaldo, would be at the world cup.
Pnelnik (
talk)
03:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Here are a couple of references from The Irish Times:
Pnelnik ( talk) 04:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Here are some additional sources:
Pnelnik (
talk)
07:13, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Spending a few minutes on google I found plenty of independent news sources all mentioning that FIFA announced a change to the qualification process. If something is mentioned in The Telegraph, Sports Illustrated, RTE, The Irish Time etc and they all concur, then that is sufficient for inclusion in wikipedia. To exclude you'd need some counter evidence. It is not in question that FIFA changed the rules. They are quite open about it themselves. In their news release on 29 Sep, they mention that they have made decisions, including to have seeding. If it had always been their intention, then they would not need to make that decision. In their previous news release, there was no mention of seeding.
On the other hand, I do accept that there is some speculation as to the motivation for their decision.
Jlsa, I took a look at the edits that you've made, I see that they're pretty much all about FIFA. Can I ask if you are a FIFA employee?
Pnelnik (
talk)
07:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Saying that FIFA tried to help Portugal is not extremely obvious as Portugal would not have made it to the seeds if Ukraine didn't defeat England and thereby push Croatia off the play-off spot in group 6, and they wouldn't even have made it to the play-off if Sweden hadn't been defeated by Denmark. France and Germany/Russia did get obvious benefits from it though, but in my eyes it would have been more suprising if FIFA had chosen to let it be a free draw. -- Lars Ransborg ( talk) 11:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
2010 FIFA World Cup qualification – UEFA second round article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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|
hi would it not be a good idea at some stage to indicate how many points is needed to guarantee a playoff spot. At the moment group 9 is the only group which can be clearly used to calculate this as they only have 5 teams. however it will become very important in the later stages. Gero13 ( talk) 13:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Earlier today there was a note indicating which pools were guaranteed to have their #2 team finish in the top 8 (though at the time, the note only referred to Russia). I think that would be a great addition. Presently, at least 3 pools are "safe".
76.175.153.230 (
talk)
23:22, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
France and Slovenia should be shaded as well, since their point totals are higher than Norway's can become. Norway can't gain any more points (done with playing) and are already ahead of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.28.160 ( talk) 19:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Surely the "Sweden will finish second but fail to qualify if they draw with Albania AND..." line is wrong because if Sweden draw, they'll finish with 16 points (10 points against the non-6th placed teams) and +5 goal difference. Norway only has 10 points and +2 goal difference, so Sweden would still go through to the play-offs. I also can't see how Hungary can finish second and not get to the play-offs because even if they only win 1-0, they'll have an equal goal difference to Norway but a higher number of goals scored. I assume I'm missing something here? DragonQ ( talk) 11:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The page at present is somewhat misleading because it concentrates only on those sides that are currently 2nd - rather than all those sides that could be finishing second (it might be possible to see a situation where the team shown here actually has no chance of finishing 2nd in their group - which would be a bit silly then to have them listed for their group but not teams who actually could be 2nd). A similar situation was seen in CAF (where a table shownig all possible runners-up was created). A current version exists on my page. It is fairly long tho. Jlsa ( talk) 00:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
To see a calculation of how the Play-Off could be if all teams in second place and below are considered see:
[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.102.154.63 ( talk) 15:05, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
There is also an error in the number of away goals for Croatia. Croatia have only 2 away goals, both against the bottom placed side Andorra, so the AG total should in fact be 0.
Who knows, when 8 teams for play-offs are identified, how pairs will be formed? 1 with 8; 2 with 7; etc? Or according to the FIFA ranking? Or randomly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickalex79 ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Portugal being grouped again to tough teams. 2010 WC is really challenging them. ^__^ —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
58.69.218.181 (
talk)
01:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
The article should mention the fact that Fifa originaly indicated that there would be no seeding and that only in Sep 2009 when France, Portugal and Germany were struggling to qualify did they change their mind and introduce seeding, helping the bigger teams avoid eachother. It seems that Fifa were motivated by the fact that they could get more money from TV rights if Germany and France qualified and they wanted to do all they could to ensure that Portugal qualify so that the world's most marketable player, Ronaldo, would be at the world cup.
Pnelnik (
talk)
03:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Here are a couple of references from The Irish Times:
Pnelnik ( talk) 04:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Here are some additional sources:
Pnelnik (
talk)
07:13, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Spending a few minutes on google I found plenty of independent news sources all mentioning that FIFA announced a change to the qualification process. If something is mentioned in The Telegraph, Sports Illustrated, RTE, The Irish Time etc and they all concur, then that is sufficient for inclusion in wikipedia. To exclude you'd need some counter evidence. It is not in question that FIFA changed the rules. They are quite open about it themselves. In their news release on 29 Sep, they mention that they have made decisions, including to have seeding. If it had always been their intention, then they would not need to make that decision. In their previous news release, there was no mention of seeding.
On the other hand, I do accept that there is some speculation as to the motivation for their decision.
Jlsa, I took a look at the edits that you've made, I see that they're pretty much all about FIFA. Can I ask if you are a FIFA employee?
Pnelnik (
talk)
07:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Saying that FIFA tried to help Portugal is not extremely obvious as Portugal would not have made it to the seeds if Ukraine didn't defeat England and thereby push Croatia off the play-off spot in group 6, and they wouldn't even have made it to the play-off if Sweden hadn't been defeated by Denmark. France and Germany/Russia did get obvious benefits from it though, but in my eyes it would have been more suprising if FIFA had chosen to let it be a free draw. -- Lars Ransborg ( talk) 11:37, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 2010 FIFA World Cup qualification – UEFA Second Round. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:58, 18 June 2017 (UTC)