![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2008-02-15. The result of the discussion was closed administratively as premature. |
Is this the only picture you got? Something unsettling to see him smiling there. Can we use the tatoo one? 4.143.231.166 ( talk) 06:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)eric
The creation of separate articles for perpetrators of mass killings usually rouses controversy. I ask those who are against this one to voice their arguments on the talk page, since the common consequence - AfD - would be a needlessly forceful and clumsy blunt instrument in the circumstances. Thanks, Kiz o r 15:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
16:49,
February 15
That was weird. To those of you joining us, the article was nominated for deletion by an editor who considered trying to talk things out noble but infeasible, and the nomination was summarily "closed administratively as premature." As such, get debating!
This is not a major matter. All of us are in favor of good coverage of the shootings - the only question is whether that's best done by covering the perpetrator separately or as a part of the
Northern Illinois University shooting article. Personally, I'm for the latter. All we have and likely will have to say about Steven Kazmierczak is in the context of the shooting, and there's not enough info to work better as a separate article. The
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold article shows that shooters can in some cases be best covered separately, but on the other hand
Pekka-Eric Auvinen needs no more than a section of a shooting article. Also note that it's quite possible - indeed, an often-used practice - to keep a matter in a single article, and split off subarticles when they become necessary. Any objections? --
Kiz
o
r
16:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Honestly, what's the point of merging the articles when someone's just going to remake this page tomorrow once more information is present? Just leave it. Discuss the article's information, that would actually be a good use of time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LanceSugar310 ( talk • contribs) 17:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, and I understand that, but eventually he's going to have his own article, just like several others in similar school shootings. Let me reiterate the point I was trying make. There is no point in merging the two when someone is going to take the information on the NIU shooting page and duplicate it into a separate article regardless. LanceSugar310 ( talk) 17:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
We seem to have come to an agreement. As mentioned, I've merged the article back and left a note at Talk:Northern Illinois University shooting#Stephen Phillip Kazmierczak merged. Hopefully this settles the issue. Thanks, Kiz o r 18:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Dr. Cash, there was and still is clear consensus, which you simply chose to ignore. User: Dorftrottel 21:24, February 15, 200 8
I have undid the merger. Consensus was clearly not reached. More time is needed; you can't establish true consensus after only a few hours. Dr. Cash ( talk) 19:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I still strongly oppose a merger. More and more information continues to be added to this article from a variety of sources, further establishing notability. Merging all this content with the NIU shooting article will make that article too long and unwieldy as well. Dr. Cash ( talk) 18:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm watching the press conference and they just spelled his name for the press - they spelled it "Stephen". That gets zero g-hits, but is it possible that everyone has been assuming up until now? -- B ( talk) 16:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
He was registered at UIUC as "Steven." We had to remove his listing at UIUC's student directory from his article. So, I don't get it. Mike H. Fierce! 08:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Do not place his personal information (phone, email, etc.) on the page. It will be deleted (not just reverted), and if you ignore this warning, you will be blocked. Superm401 - Talk 17:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
4.143.231.166 ( talk) 06:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)eric
Does anyone have a problem with the deletion of the current shooting section? Seems a little speculative to me, and though it may be based on a news report, it refers to personal information that cannot be determined at this point.
LanceSugar310 (
talk)
17:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Per
NIU and
CNN and the personal info posted earlier, his name is Steven, not Stephen. --
Smashville
BONK!
17:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Interestingly,
UIUC, where Mr. Kazmierczak was a current student, listed him under "Steven" (though just this morning they removed the listing from the PhoneBook).
CNN is referring to him as "Steven". --
Ragib (
talk)
19:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
check. Why is it that virtually every psychopathic killer is described this way? Dr. Cash ( talk) 22:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
It may be, but being a student leader does not necessarily mean being an outgoing person in the residence hall.
Academic Challenger (
talk)
00:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I lived down the hall from him for a semester and he was definitely a loner. Just thought I would add that. He would play counter-strike and blast music. I know original research is bad here, but don't think for a second that he was an extrovert when looking for information on this guy. Northernstar.info has some more quotes by graduates who knew him, if you dig around.
66.245.71.75 (
talk)
07:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)C
This case sounds like a possible psych-medication allergy.
A small percentage of people are allergic to certain psychiatric medications-- and become violently suicidal in reaction to the very same meds that would otherwise help many other people.
A close look should be taken at any psych meds that he may have recently been given.
I encourage any reporter who takes a look at this post to investigate this issue further--
There is a lot of documentation of this problem-- And the strange contrast between the known personality of this young man & the murders he committed may be a red flag for such a psych-med allergy reaction.
Another possibility is 'rapid withdrawal syndrome'-- Similar violent/suicidal reactions (in a small percentage of people) are known to be caused by some meds if a person comes off of them too quickly (withdrawing too rapidly). Again the stark contrast between this man's personality and what he did may be a red flag for such a reaction.
24.8.106.182 (
talk)
02:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
My Allergy and rapid withdrawal posts were an (indirect) call for sources and citations--
The posts were never a request to change the main article. I purposely wanted to open the subject in order to see if anyone with more specific case details would then come forward with supporting citations (or investigate and find them).
So it was ultimately (and intentionally) a call for citations. I was trying to prompt others who might have case knowledge about this crime or-- who might be in a position to get case knowledge about this crime-- to provide citations on this subject. Police could not do this at this point-- but a journalist involved with the story-- or someone else closer to the story-- might be able to provide citable information.
If I had thought the article itself needed to be changed accordingly I would have added the points to the article itself (in Sandbox-- and would only have done so with actual citations).
I also believe that attention to this matter may save innocent lives.
Sean7phil ( talk) 15:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/02/15/university.shooting/index.html
User: Dorftrottel 03:43, February 16, 200 8
Is completely unnecessary. Can we please remove all of it?-- 72.93.80.5 ( talk) 05:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering if someone can write IPA how to pronounce his name. -- Manop - TH ( talk) 10:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Innocent people have been slaughtered so that a maniac like Kazmierczak can have the posthumous fame he would never have achieved in life. I don't think that Wikipedia should publish full biographies of people who commit acts of savagery like this, just to become famous. His brief biography details should be incorporated into the main article about the shooting. My IQ is 95. ( A. Carty ( talk) 13:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC))
The University of Illinois at Urbana-Chamapign, where he was a graduate student in Social Work, lists his name as: Steven Phillip Kazmierczak. See http://www.uiuc.edu/resources/announcement1.html. Kaomso ( talk) 19:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Anything known about his religious beliefs, and/or lack thereof? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.100.187 ( talk) 22:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
it is not circa August. it is august.-- Pitchtold12039 ( talk) 07:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the 'video games' section from this article because it is pure speculation by a very controversial "attorney". There is thus far no actual evidence that Steven's behavior was brought on by video games, and until we hear something concrete, it doesn't belong in the article, per WP:NPOV.
Please feel free to discuss the issue of a possible video game connection here. Dr. Cash ( talk) 21:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
<ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).etc. Simply deleting a sourced relevant segment of an article is akin to vandalism.--
71.184.193.227 (
talk)
18:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I still think that you're totally wrong, and have added the {{ npov}} template to the section due to it (do not remove this tag until this issue is resolved). I still feel strongly the the entire section doesn't belong because it's pure speculation, and nothing concrete has actually been provided regarding Steven's alleged video game use and/or the connection to the murders. Dr. Cash ( talk) 20:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I reverted the link that you added to Thompson's interview on Fox News, because, as posted on Youtube, it is a copyright violation and subject to removal by Youtube as such. The only way the interview can be cited is directly on Fox News's website, if it is available. That being said, Thompson still has absolutely zero evidence that Kazmierczak's behavior was caused by video games. He's still speculating. Dr. Cash ( talk) 00:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Controversial Miami-based attorney Jack Thompson claimed that Kazmierczak, like Robert Steinhäuser, and Seung-Hui Cho rehearsed and perfected their murders beforehand on video games, specifically Counter-Strike. Mr. Thompson appeared on Fox News to suggest that the "psychological affect of this shooter [Kazmierczak] indicates that there might have been that type of rehearsal. Plus, his attire is suggestive of a couple of the games in which the "hero" wears this type of attire." Thompson wrote a letter to Northern Illinois University demanding that he be given any records dealing with the shooter playing violent video games –- and that he would sue NIU to get them. Although alleged by Thompson to be a cause of Kazmierczak's killing spree, the game was played by others in the same dormitory hall and is not considered an unusual pastime.
Former roommates who lived with Kazmierczak at NIU during the 2003-04 academic year, described Steven as a quiet man who mostly stayed to himself. They never really saw him with a lot of people, and he seemed kind of anti-social. But other than that, they described him as pretty normal. They said that he would often play the video game Counter Strike, a first-person shooting game, but they were also quick to add that the game was commonly played by others in the same dormitory hall and not considered an unusual pasttime.(citations: NY Post article NW Herald article Controversial Miami-based attorney, Jack Thompson claimed that Kazmierczak, like Robert Steinhäuser and Seung-Hui Cho, rehearsed and perfected their murders beforehand on video games, specifically Counter-Strike. Although a governor-ordered review of Cho's case found no connection whatsoever to video games.(citation: MSNBC)
Some of Kazmierczak's former roommates during his time at NIU described Steven as a quiet man who usually stayed to himself. They stated that, while fairly normal, they did not see him spend much time with other students. In an interview after the shooting, his former roommates also said that they would often find him playing the video game Counter Strike, a first-person shooting game, but they were also quick to add that the game was commonly played by others in the same dormitory hall and not considered an unusual pasttime.(citations: NY Post article NW Herald article Controversial Miami-based attorney, Jack Thompson claimed that Kazmierczak, like Robert Steinhäuser and Seung-Hui Cho, rehearsed and perfected his murders beforehand on video games, specifically Counter-Strike. (citation: MSNBC)
It seems to flow a bit better to me. I removed the comment about the governor's findings because that should be something mentioned in the Seung-Hui Cho article. If its not already there, I'd suggest it be added. Let me know if this is okay and we can do the merge and get this settled...for now. will381796 ( talk) 23:34, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Should we add something on here that he bought the guns legally? We can mention that he was on the medication for a condition so he may not, technically, have been able to purchase the guns under Ill. Law, but he was able to get the guns from a legitimate dealer--through the legal purchasing process. -- 130.108.185.200 ( talk) 03:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm. I think i have to disagree with EpochFail. It should be included because this individual is notable because of the shooting, therefore there should be some information on his actions in and around that event. Buying the weapons should be included. The sentence sould read "Kacmierczak legally purchased the weapons used from an online vendor." or something like that. Let me know what you think.-- 65.31.55.44 ( talk) 16:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering about this. Can someone find a source and add this to the page. I would but i am new and I dont know if i can/allowed to edit articles yet.-- Okay311 ( talk) 23:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
The consensus seems to be to merge the article; people asked to wait but no one else really weighed in on the issue. So, what needs to be kept?
Anything else? Titanium Dragon ( talk) 12:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
His removal of his hard drive and of his cellphone memory is notable, and the article should mention this. 1 2
From an offender profiling standpoint, this could be important-- he didn't want anyone to know why he did it, which is in direct contrast to most mass murderers (I don't have an RS for this idea, though, but I'll find one). 24.32.208.58 ( talk) 06:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
So, we've had a week to let this article cool down. I've began a discussion on the talk page of the NIU shooting article regarding a possible merger of this article into that (with removal of redundant information. My reasoning is there. Please feel free to go there and enter the discussion. Thanks. will381796 ( talk) 15:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 2008-02-15. The result of the discussion was closed administratively as premature. |
Is this the only picture you got? Something unsettling to see him smiling there. Can we use the tatoo one? 4.143.231.166 ( talk) 06:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)eric
The creation of separate articles for perpetrators of mass killings usually rouses controversy. I ask those who are against this one to voice their arguments on the talk page, since the common consequence - AfD - would be a needlessly forceful and clumsy blunt instrument in the circumstances. Thanks, Kiz o r 15:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
16:49,
February 15
That was weird. To those of you joining us, the article was nominated for deletion by an editor who considered trying to talk things out noble but infeasible, and the nomination was summarily "closed administratively as premature." As such, get debating!
This is not a major matter. All of us are in favor of good coverage of the shootings - the only question is whether that's best done by covering the perpetrator separately or as a part of the
Northern Illinois University shooting article. Personally, I'm for the latter. All we have and likely will have to say about Steven Kazmierczak is in the context of the shooting, and there's not enough info to work better as a separate article. The
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold article shows that shooters can in some cases be best covered separately, but on the other hand
Pekka-Eric Auvinen needs no more than a section of a shooting article. Also note that it's quite possible - indeed, an often-used practice - to keep a matter in a single article, and split off subarticles when they become necessary. Any objections? --
Kiz
o
r
16:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Honestly, what's the point of merging the articles when someone's just going to remake this page tomorrow once more information is present? Just leave it. Discuss the article's information, that would actually be a good use of time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LanceSugar310 ( talk • contribs) 17:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, and I understand that, but eventually he's going to have his own article, just like several others in similar school shootings. Let me reiterate the point I was trying make. There is no point in merging the two when someone is going to take the information on the NIU shooting page and duplicate it into a separate article regardless. LanceSugar310 ( talk) 17:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
We seem to have come to an agreement. As mentioned, I've merged the article back and left a note at Talk:Northern Illinois University shooting#Stephen Phillip Kazmierczak merged. Hopefully this settles the issue. Thanks, Kiz o r 18:10, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Dr. Cash, there was and still is clear consensus, which you simply chose to ignore. User: Dorftrottel 21:24, February 15, 200 8
I have undid the merger. Consensus was clearly not reached. More time is needed; you can't establish true consensus after only a few hours. Dr. Cash ( talk) 19:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I still strongly oppose a merger. More and more information continues to be added to this article from a variety of sources, further establishing notability. Merging all this content with the NIU shooting article will make that article too long and unwieldy as well. Dr. Cash ( talk) 18:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm watching the press conference and they just spelled his name for the press - they spelled it "Stephen". That gets zero g-hits, but is it possible that everyone has been assuming up until now? -- B ( talk) 16:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
He was registered at UIUC as "Steven." We had to remove his listing at UIUC's student directory from his article. So, I don't get it. Mike H. Fierce! 08:21, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Do not place his personal information (phone, email, etc.) on the page. It will be deleted (not just reverted), and if you ignore this warning, you will be blocked. Superm401 - Talk 17:09, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
4.143.231.166 ( talk) 06:48, 25 February 2008 (UTC)eric
Does anyone have a problem with the deletion of the current shooting section? Seems a little speculative to me, and though it may be based on a news report, it refers to personal information that cannot be determined at this point.
LanceSugar310 (
talk)
17:27, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Per
NIU and
CNN and the personal info posted earlier, his name is Steven, not Stephen. --
Smashville
BONK!
17:25, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Interestingly,
UIUC, where Mr. Kazmierczak was a current student, listed him under "Steven" (though just this morning they removed the listing from the PhoneBook).
CNN is referring to him as "Steven". --
Ragib (
talk)
19:47, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
check. Why is it that virtually every psychopathic killer is described this way? Dr. Cash ( talk) 22:42, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
It may be, but being a student leader does not necessarily mean being an outgoing person in the residence hall.
Academic Challenger (
talk)
00:44, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I lived down the hall from him for a semester and he was definitely a loner. Just thought I would add that. He would play counter-strike and blast music. I know original research is bad here, but don't think for a second that he was an extrovert when looking for information on this guy. Northernstar.info has some more quotes by graduates who knew him, if you dig around.
66.245.71.75 (
talk)
07:52, 16 February 2008 (UTC)C
This case sounds like a possible psych-medication allergy.
A small percentage of people are allergic to certain psychiatric medications-- and become violently suicidal in reaction to the very same meds that would otherwise help many other people.
A close look should be taken at any psych meds that he may have recently been given.
I encourage any reporter who takes a look at this post to investigate this issue further--
There is a lot of documentation of this problem-- And the strange contrast between the known personality of this young man & the murders he committed may be a red flag for such a psych-med allergy reaction.
Another possibility is 'rapid withdrawal syndrome'-- Similar violent/suicidal reactions (in a small percentage of people) are known to be caused by some meds if a person comes off of them too quickly (withdrawing too rapidly). Again the stark contrast between this man's personality and what he did may be a red flag for such a reaction.
24.8.106.182 (
talk)
02:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
My Allergy and rapid withdrawal posts were an (indirect) call for sources and citations--
The posts were never a request to change the main article. I purposely wanted to open the subject in order to see if anyone with more specific case details would then come forward with supporting citations (or investigate and find them).
So it was ultimately (and intentionally) a call for citations. I was trying to prompt others who might have case knowledge about this crime or-- who might be in a position to get case knowledge about this crime-- to provide citations on this subject. Police could not do this at this point-- but a journalist involved with the story-- or someone else closer to the story-- might be able to provide citable information.
If I had thought the article itself needed to be changed accordingly I would have added the points to the article itself (in Sandbox-- and would only have done so with actual citations).
I also believe that attention to this matter may save innocent lives.
Sean7phil ( talk) 15:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/02/15/university.shooting/index.html
User: Dorftrottel 03:43, February 16, 200 8
Is completely unnecessary. Can we please remove all of it?-- 72.93.80.5 ( talk) 05:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering if someone can write IPA how to pronounce his name. -- Manop - TH ( talk) 10:24, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Innocent people have been slaughtered so that a maniac like Kazmierczak can have the posthumous fame he would never have achieved in life. I don't think that Wikipedia should publish full biographies of people who commit acts of savagery like this, just to become famous. His brief biography details should be incorporated into the main article about the shooting. My IQ is 95. ( A. Carty ( talk) 13:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC))
The University of Illinois at Urbana-Chamapign, where he was a graduate student in Social Work, lists his name as: Steven Phillip Kazmierczak. See http://www.uiuc.edu/resources/announcement1.html. Kaomso ( talk) 19:59, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
Anything known about his religious beliefs, and/or lack thereof? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.100.187 ( talk) 22:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
it is not circa August. it is august.-- Pitchtold12039 ( talk) 07:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the 'video games' section from this article because it is pure speculation by a very controversial "attorney". There is thus far no actual evidence that Steven's behavior was brought on by video games, and until we hear something concrete, it doesn't belong in the article, per WP:NPOV.
Please feel free to discuss the issue of a possible video game connection here. Dr. Cash ( talk) 21:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
<ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).etc. Simply deleting a sourced relevant segment of an article is akin to vandalism.--
71.184.193.227 (
talk)
18:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I still think that you're totally wrong, and have added the {{ npov}} template to the section due to it (do not remove this tag until this issue is resolved). I still feel strongly the the entire section doesn't belong because it's pure speculation, and nothing concrete has actually been provided regarding Steven's alleged video game use and/or the connection to the murders. Dr. Cash ( talk) 20:32, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I reverted the link that you added to Thompson's interview on Fox News, because, as posted on Youtube, it is a copyright violation and subject to removal by Youtube as such. The only way the interview can be cited is directly on Fox News's website, if it is available. That being said, Thompson still has absolutely zero evidence that Kazmierczak's behavior was caused by video games. He's still speculating. Dr. Cash ( talk) 00:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Controversial Miami-based attorney Jack Thompson claimed that Kazmierczak, like Robert Steinhäuser, and Seung-Hui Cho rehearsed and perfected their murders beforehand on video games, specifically Counter-Strike. Mr. Thompson appeared on Fox News to suggest that the "psychological affect of this shooter [Kazmierczak] indicates that there might have been that type of rehearsal. Plus, his attire is suggestive of a couple of the games in which the "hero" wears this type of attire." Thompson wrote a letter to Northern Illinois University demanding that he be given any records dealing with the shooter playing violent video games –- and that he would sue NIU to get them. Although alleged by Thompson to be a cause of Kazmierczak's killing spree, the game was played by others in the same dormitory hall and is not considered an unusual pastime.
Former roommates who lived with Kazmierczak at NIU during the 2003-04 academic year, described Steven as a quiet man who mostly stayed to himself. They never really saw him with a lot of people, and he seemed kind of anti-social. But other than that, they described him as pretty normal. They said that he would often play the video game Counter Strike, a first-person shooting game, but they were also quick to add that the game was commonly played by others in the same dormitory hall and not considered an unusual pasttime.(citations: NY Post article NW Herald article Controversial Miami-based attorney, Jack Thompson claimed that Kazmierczak, like Robert Steinhäuser and Seung-Hui Cho, rehearsed and perfected their murders beforehand on video games, specifically Counter-Strike. Although a governor-ordered review of Cho's case found no connection whatsoever to video games.(citation: MSNBC)
Some of Kazmierczak's former roommates during his time at NIU described Steven as a quiet man who usually stayed to himself. They stated that, while fairly normal, they did not see him spend much time with other students. In an interview after the shooting, his former roommates also said that they would often find him playing the video game Counter Strike, a first-person shooting game, but they were also quick to add that the game was commonly played by others in the same dormitory hall and not considered an unusual pasttime.(citations: NY Post article NW Herald article Controversial Miami-based attorney, Jack Thompson claimed that Kazmierczak, like Robert Steinhäuser and Seung-Hui Cho, rehearsed and perfected his murders beforehand on video games, specifically Counter-Strike. (citation: MSNBC)
It seems to flow a bit better to me. I removed the comment about the governor's findings because that should be something mentioned in the Seung-Hui Cho article. If its not already there, I'd suggest it be added. Let me know if this is okay and we can do the merge and get this settled...for now. will381796 ( talk) 23:34, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Should we add something on here that he bought the guns legally? We can mention that he was on the medication for a condition so he may not, technically, have been able to purchase the guns under Ill. Law, but he was able to get the guns from a legitimate dealer--through the legal purchasing process. -- 130.108.185.200 ( talk) 03:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm. I think i have to disagree with EpochFail. It should be included because this individual is notable because of the shooting, therefore there should be some information on his actions in and around that event. Buying the weapons should be included. The sentence sould read "Kacmierczak legally purchased the weapons used from an online vendor." or something like that. Let me know what you think.-- 65.31.55.44 ( talk) 16:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
I was wondering about this. Can someone find a source and add this to the page. I would but i am new and I dont know if i can/allowed to edit articles yet.-- Okay311 ( talk) 23:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
The consensus seems to be to merge the article; people asked to wait but no one else really weighed in on the issue. So, what needs to be kept?
Anything else? Titanium Dragon ( talk) 12:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
His removal of his hard drive and of his cellphone memory is notable, and the article should mention this. 1 2
From an offender profiling standpoint, this could be important-- he didn't want anyone to know why he did it, which is in direct contrast to most mass murderers (I don't have an RS for this idea, though, but I'll find one). 24.32.208.58 ( talk) 06:42, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
So, we've had a week to let this article cool down. I've began a discussion on the talk page of the NIU shooting article regarding a possible merger of this article into that (with removal of redundant information. My reasoning is there. Please feel free to go there and enter the discussion. Thanks. will381796 ( talk) 15:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)