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This article and the reference it uses claims that the last outbreak that escaped from this lab was in 1970, but the news article in todays Science magazine says January, 1960[ [1]]. Are these two different outbreaks, or does one source have its dates wrong?
Images are always welcome. However they must be licensed and tagged - see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags - otherwise they will be removed. Bridgeplayer 22:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your advice Bridgeplayer, due care and attention will henceforth be taken! TJBlackwell 22:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
The media are wrong in referring to it as Wanborough, Surrey, which is a hamlet. See the entry for Flexford to understand the reason for the confusion and refer to the DEFRA map. John 18:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
It's complicated because the farming business which owns the cattle is spread over three sites, potentially all with FMD virus because of normal movements of staff and equipment during the incubation period. At least one of those sites is rented grazing. The BBC news coverage, some of it shot from helicopters before an aerial exclusion zone was set up, has the infected cattle very close to Flexford. The DEFRA press conference referred to the "home farm" as if distinct from the actual site of the outbreak. I don't have specific cites for this, the info is scattered through Saturday's news reporting and the DEFRA notices, but the pattern is consistent with my own farming experience. Since the herd affected was not dairy cattle, there wouldn't be the regular movement for milking. Zhochaka 08:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Eh? Funkynusayri 07:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It boils down to 2 issues, 1) the method of release from the laboratory, and 2) the means of transmission. On the latter, I can't help thinking the the stream from Pirbright up river to Normandy is the method because it's so obvious. The sewage transmission theory was a non starter because it would have had to travel ~10m uphill for 4km. If it wasn't for the fact that the grid reference for the 3rd infection source, which is 1½ km away from the 1st, had been made deliberately vague by DEFRA (+/-100m instead of the previous +/-1m) we would be able to see for certain whether it was downstream from the 1st source. The 2nd source is not significant as it would likly have been caused by farm employees/materials. Using similar reasoning to the sewage argument, the stream is unlikly to back up 4km and rise 10m during flooding, therefore it's seems to me as if some form of wildlife has carried the virus along the watercourse, deer and rats being the two most prevalent, of which, water rats being the obvious candidate. John 19:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
One wonders if the Central Veterinary Laboratory [2] at Addlestone, within the 3km protection zone, are trying to outdo their collegues at Pirbright ;-) John 14:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
To summarise the facts and findings so far -
I expect that resent developments are bound to re-light the suspicion that the 2001 out brake was due to testing live vaccines (if the latest is confirmed, that suggests three). I am not going to add it though, because no one, as yet, has (publicly) come out and said it. A official statement is to be made in the next half hour however. Here is a link to one article about the 2001 suspicions if anyone is interested in the background to this: [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspro ( talk • contribs) 18:18, 7 August 2007
As someone who has always used inline references I'm now changing my opinion because I find it's getting increasingly difficult to edit this article and that is demotivating me. I think that it's the way WP implements them - the reference details in between the text destroying readablility when editing. Perhaps there's a better way. Any suggestions ? John 06:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Morbi dictum. Vestibulum adipiscing pulvinar quam. In aliquam rhoncus sem. In mi erat, sodales eget, pretium interdum, malesuada ac, augue. Aliquam sollicitudin, massa ut vestibulum posuere, massa arcu elementum purus, eget vehicula lorem metus vel libero. Sed in dui id lectus commodo elementum. Etiam rhoncus tortor. Proin a lorem. Ut nec velit. Quisque varius. Proin nonummy justo dictum sapien tincidunt iaculis. Duis lobortis pellentesque risus. [1] Aenean ut tortor imperdiet dolor scelerisque bibendum. Fusce metus nibh, adipiscing id, ullamcorper at, consequat a, nulla. Phasellus orci. Etiam tempor elit auctor magna. Nullam nibh velit, vestibulum ut, eleifend non, pulvinar eget, enim. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Integer velit mauris, convallis a, congue sed, placerat id, odio. [2] Etiam venenatis tortor sed lectus. Nulla non orci. In egestas porttitor quam. Duis nec diam eget nibh mattis tempus. Curabitur accumsan pede id odio. Nunc vitae libero. Aenean condimentum diam et turpis. Vestibulum non risus. Ut consectetuer gravida elit. Aenean est nunc, varius sed, aliquam eu, feugiat sit amet, metus. Sed venenatis odio id eros. -- Aspro 08:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
References
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Since the 1967 United Kingdom foot-and-mouth outbreak was apparently as notable as the 2001 United Kingdom foot-and-mouth crisis it deserves an article otherwise there would be a temporal systemic bias. See also Wikipedia:Recentism. -- Alan Liefting talk 10:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Why the hyphens? -- SGBailey 21:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Looks as if it's centred on Milton Park Farm. The protection order co-ordinates give – [7] John 11:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I find it remarkable that the tremendous stooshie that has ensued around this topic outwith England has escaped the attention of the editors of this article, eg:
-- Mais oui! 10:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
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This article and the reference it uses claims that the last outbreak that escaped from this lab was in 1970, but the news article in todays Science magazine says January, 1960[ [1]]. Are these two different outbreaks, or does one source have its dates wrong?
Images are always welcome. However they must be licensed and tagged - see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags - otherwise they will be removed. Bridgeplayer 22:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your advice Bridgeplayer, due care and attention will henceforth be taken! TJBlackwell 22:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
The media are wrong in referring to it as Wanborough, Surrey, which is a hamlet. See the entry for Flexford to understand the reason for the confusion and refer to the DEFRA map. John 18:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
It's complicated because the farming business which owns the cattle is spread over three sites, potentially all with FMD virus because of normal movements of staff and equipment during the incubation period. At least one of those sites is rented grazing. The BBC news coverage, some of it shot from helicopters before an aerial exclusion zone was set up, has the infected cattle very close to Flexford. The DEFRA press conference referred to the "home farm" as if distinct from the actual site of the outbreak. I don't have specific cites for this, the info is scattered through Saturday's news reporting and the DEFRA notices, but the pattern is consistent with my own farming experience. Since the herd affected was not dairy cattle, there wouldn't be the regular movement for milking. Zhochaka 08:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Eh? Funkynusayri 07:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
It boils down to 2 issues, 1) the method of release from the laboratory, and 2) the means of transmission. On the latter, I can't help thinking the the stream from Pirbright up river to Normandy is the method because it's so obvious. The sewage transmission theory was a non starter because it would have had to travel ~10m uphill for 4km. If it wasn't for the fact that the grid reference for the 3rd infection source, which is 1½ km away from the 1st, had been made deliberately vague by DEFRA (+/-100m instead of the previous +/-1m) we would be able to see for certain whether it was downstream from the 1st source. The 2nd source is not significant as it would likly have been caused by farm employees/materials. Using similar reasoning to the sewage argument, the stream is unlikly to back up 4km and rise 10m during flooding, therefore it's seems to me as if some form of wildlife has carried the virus along the watercourse, deer and rats being the two most prevalent, of which, water rats being the obvious candidate. John 19:52, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
One wonders if the Central Veterinary Laboratory [2] at Addlestone, within the 3km protection zone, are trying to outdo their collegues at Pirbright ;-) John 14:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
To summarise the facts and findings so far -
I expect that resent developments are bound to re-light the suspicion that the 2001 out brake was due to testing live vaccines (if the latest is confirmed, that suggests three). I am not going to add it though, because no one, as yet, has (publicly) come out and said it. A official statement is to be made in the next half hour however. Here is a link to one article about the 2001 suspicions if anyone is interested in the background to this: [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspro ( talk • contribs) 18:18, 7 August 2007
As someone who has always used inline references I'm now changing my opinion because I find it's getting increasingly difficult to edit this article and that is demotivating me. I think that it's the way WP implements them - the reference details in between the text destroying readablility when editing. Perhaps there's a better way. Any suggestions ? John 06:52, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Morbi dictum. Vestibulum adipiscing pulvinar quam. In aliquam rhoncus sem. In mi erat, sodales eget, pretium interdum, malesuada ac, augue. Aliquam sollicitudin, massa ut vestibulum posuere, massa arcu elementum purus, eget vehicula lorem metus vel libero. Sed in dui id lectus commodo elementum. Etiam rhoncus tortor. Proin a lorem. Ut nec velit. Quisque varius. Proin nonummy justo dictum sapien tincidunt iaculis. Duis lobortis pellentesque risus. [1] Aenean ut tortor imperdiet dolor scelerisque bibendum. Fusce metus nibh, adipiscing id, ullamcorper at, consequat a, nulla. Phasellus orci. Etiam tempor elit auctor magna. Nullam nibh velit, vestibulum ut, eleifend non, pulvinar eget, enim. Class aptent taciti sociosqu ad litora torquent per conubia nostra, per inceptos hymenaeos. Integer velit mauris, convallis a, congue sed, placerat id, odio. [2] Etiam venenatis tortor sed lectus. Nulla non orci. In egestas porttitor quam. Duis nec diam eget nibh mattis tempus. Curabitur accumsan pede id odio. Nunc vitae libero. Aenean condimentum diam et turpis. Vestibulum non risus. Ut consectetuer gravida elit. Aenean est nunc, varius sed, aliquam eu, feugiat sit amet, metus. Sed venenatis odio id eros. -- Aspro 08:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
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Since the 1967 United Kingdom foot-and-mouth outbreak was apparently as notable as the 2001 United Kingdom foot-and-mouth crisis it deserves an article otherwise there would be a temporal systemic bias. See also Wikipedia:Recentism. -- Alan Liefting talk 10:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Why the hyphens? -- SGBailey 21:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Looks as if it's centred on Milton Park Farm. The protection order co-ordinates give – [7] John 11:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I find it remarkable that the tremendous stooshie that has ensued around this topic outwith England has escaped the attention of the editors of this article, eg:
-- Mais oui! 10:57, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
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