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The explanation of people's concerns of Lockheed-Martin and their personal data seems a bit too close to the StatsCan official statement on the subject. No source is cited to back up this statement: "This was not true, as all information was handled only by Statistics Canada employees, not Lockheed Martin employees. The information was then stored by Statistics Canada, and Lockheed Martin did not have access to it. Nevertheless, some people refused to cooperate in the Census, as they were morally opposed to any dealings with Lockheed Martin, seeing the company as a supporter of the war in Iraq."
Should it be rewritten to reflect a more neutral, balanced approach to the controversy? There were some very legitimate concerns by people a bit more in tuned with reality than "CountMeOut.ca". I would edit it myself, but I think we should strive for a consensus first. Gortex99 18:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Reliable sources classifies countmeout.ca as a partisan website (i.e., the site's message is anti-outsourcing, anti-NAFTA, anti-Census, etc). Please discuss here before re-adding the countmeout.ca to the article.
I have removed this link [1] for these reasons:
-- Robocoder 02:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
countmeout.ca is now referred to indirectly through the cited National Post article. -- Robocoder 06:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
After attempting to complete the 2006 census online, I was appalled to discover that after 30 minutes of data-entry, the archaic software crashed on me and lost all the data I entered. It was not due to the entering the wrong input into the dialogue box mentioned on the site. Has anyone else encountered such problems? I'm astounded that a website at the federal level could be designed so poorly. Perhaps an entry regarding the problems with the online Census should be mentioned in the article if others have encountered this problem? Thoughts? Mattpope 05:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
It wasn't just the website. The software used to scan and record census reports by mail failed - reports were scanned, but the information wasn't properly recorded. As a result, the census takers had no record of many households who had already completed and returned the census. Follow up phone calls were made, and even some of them failed. In this case I speak from personal experience; my household returned our census form the day after we received it by mail. We were then contacted by phone and asked to complete the census. When we informed them it had been mailed, they accepted that. They phoned again a week later, and said they still hadn't received our info. We then completed the report over the phone. The person who spoke to us explained the problem with the software. On a work-related note, Census Canada has already begun an RFP process to replace the Lockheed Martin subsidiary that provided the census applications. (I work for one of the companies approached.)
Note that other than the constant radio, tv, and print ads begging people to return overdue forms, I've seen nothing in the press to indicate that others had the same experience with the mail-in census forms that my household did, despite what the census personnel told me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.221.87 ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 1 November 2006.
I Just filled out my census form, but I do not recall any questions on education. Perhaps it should be made more clear that only one fifth of households get the extended census questionnaire. The Geeklord 12:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
How is this information encyclopedic? Why would someone care now, or ever? This is completely trivial information that does not belong here. And it is incomplete, just to drive the final nail. Cleduc 13:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
By the way, Michaelm, don't be so quick to wave the bloody shirt. Just because you disagree with a change doesn't mean it's vandalism. "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Cleduc 13:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
In this change [2] where Robocoder "Rewrote Same-sex marriage section to incorporate all concerns raised in the cited article" also removed the locus of the same-sex marriage conflict -- unequal treatment -- and the StatCan & Egale positions on the issue. I will restore that information. Cleduc 13:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, before we get into a Wikipedia:Edit war, my edits were neutral, and I intentionally did not advance the position of any special interest group over another. The merits of the respective groups is not in question -- each has a POV of unequal treatment, which I respected.
That said, I did not include the citation to Egale's position statement / press release / soapbox because it isn't notable:
-- Robocoder 19:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi - this article seems largely to be written before or at the time of the census. A review is perhaps in order with some perspective a few months down the track even though results are not yet available. For example, the article states are expected to be counted. - was there a press release which said how mnay were counted and thus the tense can be changed?
At the
Census in Australia, we have info on the
eCensus. It seems that the same technology was used in Canada and 2 million forms were collected that way. (See
"IBM application and hosting expertise helps ABS build the big picture faster with eCensus program". Media releases. Australian Bureau of Statistics.
2006-08-17. Retrieved 2006-08-22. {{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)) I think the use of technology is significant. I note that the experience was apparently not flawless from the discussion above, but there seems no discussion in the article of what to my mind is a significant evolution in keying data - ie get the population to key their own.--
Arktos
talk 21:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
As noted above in "Website Problems", the "higher than expected non-response rate" appears to be as much as problem with the software as it was with an apathetic population. Mail-in forms that were received on time could not be matched to the replying households by the scanning software. My household was contacted by the Census folks by phone twice, despite mailing our form in immediately after receiving it. Two separate Census staff informed me of software/scanner issues. I would like to know how widespread that was, but I've seen zero media reports on it. All I know is that Stats Canada is approaching new IT companies to handle the apps for next time (as they have approached the company I work for). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.221.87 ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 1 November 2006.
I made an edit [6] to the article English language updating the information on Canada to the 2006 census, but now I realize I might be confused about something. Is the census data on mother tongue wildly different depending on whether it is based on the 20% sample or the 100% sample? What I mean is this:
If you look at catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006002, "Language Highlight Tables", Table 401, it separates out a response of "English and" some other language(s) as mother tongues, from a response of English only. So it looks from that table that the total figure for English as a mother tongue is:
17,882,775 + 98,625 + 240,005 + 10,790 = 18,232,195
That figure agrees (essentially) with catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006007, "Language", Detailed Mother Tongue.
Both those tables were based on data from the 20% sample data.
But look at some of the census data based on the 100% sample data, such as catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006019 or catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006021. These tables, such as for mother tongue by age group, sex, CMA and CA give larger figures for the total speaking English as a mother tongue:
18,588,050 + 239,185 + 590,905 + 63,685 = 19,481,825
I kind of think I am misunderstanding something, but not sure what. Is the number of people in Canada (as of census day 2006) whose mother tongue is English (either alone or with some other language(s)) 18.2 million, or 19.5 million? The difference is too large to be attributed to sampling error alone. -- Mathew5000 ( talk) 05:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I've done a bit of searching at the Statscan website, in search of an answer to the question posed above. Frankly, I haven't found anything that explains the huge discrepancies cited above by Mathew5000. But I did locate Statscan's discussion of how random and non-random errors can occur in the census (particularly when 20% samples are being used): http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/reference/dictionary/app002.cfm Flint and Fire ( talk) 12:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The Ottawa Citizen [7] had an article today saying that StatsCan believes some francophones outside Quebec lied in the 2006 census, saying they did not speak English when they really do. The article specifically mentions: "Statistics Canada has taken the unusual step of posting a warning on its website to caution users that the data on bilingualism rates for francophones outside Quebec may not be reliable." But I could not find that warning on the StatsCan website. Mathew5000 ( talk) 03:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
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The explanation of people's concerns of Lockheed-Martin and their personal data seems a bit too close to the StatsCan official statement on the subject. No source is cited to back up this statement: "This was not true, as all information was handled only by Statistics Canada employees, not Lockheed Martin employees. The information was then stored by Statistics Canada, and Lockheed Martin did not have access to it. Nevertheless, some people refused to cooperate in the Census, as they were morally opposed to any dealings with Lockheed Martin, seeing the company as a supporter of the war in Iraq."
Should it be rewritten to reflect a more neutral, balanced approach to the controversy? There were some very legitimate concerns by people a bit more in tuned with reality than "CountMeOut.ca". I would edit it myself, but I think we should strive for a consensus first. Gortex99 18:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Reliable sources classifies countmeout.ca as a partisan website (i.e., the site's message is anti-outsourcing, anti-NAFTA, anti-Census, etc). Please discuss here before re-adding the countmeout.ca to the article.
I have removed this link [1] for these reasons:
-- Robocoder 02:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
countmeout.ca is now referred to indirectly through the cited National Post article. -- Robocoder 06:03, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
After attempting to complete the 2006 census online, I was appalled to discover that after 30 minutes of data-entry, the archaic software crashed on me and lost all the data I entered. It was not due to the entering the wrong input into the dialogue box mentioned on the site. Has anyone else encountered such problems? I'm astounded that a website at the federal level could be designed so poorly. Perhaps an entry regarding the problems with the online Census should be mentioned in the article if others have encountered this problem? Thoughts? Mattpope 05:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
It wasn't just the website. The software used to scan and record census reports by mail failed - reports were scanned, but the information wasn't properly recorded. As a result, the census takers had no record of many households who had already completed and returned the census. Follow up phone calls were made, and even some of them failed. In this case I speak from personal experience; my household returned our census form the day after we received it by mail. We were then contacted by phone and asked to complete the census. When we informed them it had been mailed, they accepted that. They phoned again a week later, and said they still hadn't received our info. We then completed the report over the phone. The person who spoke to us explained the problem with the software. On a work-related note, Census Canada has already begun an RFP process to replace the Lockheed Martin subsidiary that provided the census applications. (I work for one of the companies approached.)
Note that other than the constant radio, tv, and print ads begging people to return overdue forms, I've seen nothing in the press to indicate that others had the same experience with the mail-in census forms that my household did, despite what the census personnel told me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.221.87 ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 1 November 2006.
I Just filled out my census form, but I do not recall any questions on education. Perhaps it should be made more clear that only one fifth of households get the extended census questionnaire. The Geeklord 12:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
How is this information encyclopedic? Why would someone care now, or ever? This is completely trivial information that does not belong here. And it is incomplete, just to drive the final nail. Cleduc 13:06, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
By the way, Michaelm, don't be so quick to wave the bloody shirt. Just because you disagree with a change doesn't mean it's vandalism. "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Cleduc 13:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
In this change [2] where Robocoder "Rewrote Same-sex marriage section to incorporate all concerns raised in the cited article" also removed the locus of the same-sex marriage conflict -- unequal treatment -- and the StatCan & Egale positions on the issue. I will restore that information. Cleduc 13:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok, before we get into a Wikipedia:Edit war, my edits were neutral, and I intentionally did not advance the position of any special interest group over another. The merits of the respective groups is not in question -- each has a POV of unequal treatment, which I respected.
That said, I did not include the citation to Egale's position statement / press release / soapbox because it isn't notable:
-- Robocoder 19:52, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi - this article seems largely to be written before or at the time of the census. A review is perhaps in order with some perspective a few months down the track even though results are not yet available. For example, the article states are expected to be counted. - was there a press release which said how mnay were counted and thus the tense can be changed?
At the
Census in Australia, we have info on the
eCensus. It seems that the same technology was used in Canada and 2 million forms were collected that way. (See
"IBM application and hosting expertise helps ABS build the big picture faster with eCensus program". Media releases. Australian Bureau of Statistics.
2006-08-17. Retrieved 2006-08-22. {{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)) I think the use of technology is significant. I note that the experience was apparently not flawless from the discussion above, but there seems no discussion in the article of what to my mind is a significant evolution in keying data - ie get the population to key their own.--
Arktos
talk 21:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
As noted above in "Website Problems", the "higher than expected non-response rate" appears to be as much as problem with the software as it was with an apathetic population. Mail-in forms that were received on time could not be matched to the replying households by the scanning software. My household was contacted by the Census folks by phone twice, despite mailing our form in immediately after receiving it. Two separate Census staff informed me of software/scanner issues. I would like to know how widespread that was, but I've seen zero media reports on it. All I know is that Stats Canada is approaching new IT companies to handle the apps for next time (as they have approached the company I work for). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.69.221.87 ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 1 November 2006.
I made an edit [6] to the article English language updating the information on Canada to the 2006 census, but now I realize I might be confused about something. Is the census data on mother tongue wildly different depending on whether it is based on the 20% sample or the 100% sample? What I mean is this:
If you look at catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006002, "Language Highlight Tables", Table 401, it separates out a response of "English and" some other language(s) as mother tongues, from a response of English only. So it looks from that table that the total figure for English as a mother tongue is:
17,882,775 + 98,625 + 240,005 + 10,790 = 18,232,195
That figure agrees (essentially) with catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006007, "Language", Detailed Mother Tongue.
Both those tables were based on data from the 20% sample data.
But look at some of the census data based on the 100% sample data, such as catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006019 or catalogue no. 97-555-XWE2006021. These tables, such as for mother tongue by age group, sex, CMA and CA give larger figures for the total speaking English as a mother tongue:
18,588,050 + 239,185 + 590,905 + 63,685 = 19,481,825
I kind of think I am misunderstanding something, but not sure what. Is the number of people in Canada (as of census day 2006) whose mother tongue is English (either alone or with some other language(s)) 18.2 million, or 19.5 million? The difference is too large to be attributed to sampling error alone. -- Mathew5000 ( talk) 05:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I've done a bit of searching at the Statscan website, in search of an answer to the question posed above. Frankly, I haven't found anything that explains the huge discrepancies cited above by Mathew5000. But I did locate Statscan's discussion of how random and non-random errors can occur in the census (particularly when 20% samples are being used): http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/reference/dictionary/app002.cfm Flint and Fire ( talk) 12:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
The Ottawa Citizen [7] had an article today saying that StatsCan believes some francophones outside Quebec lied in the 2006 census, saying they did not speak English when they really do. The article specifically mentions: "Statistics Canada has taken the unusual step of posting a warning on its website to caution users that the data on bilingualism rates for francophones outside Quebec may not be reliable." But I could not find that warning on the StatsCan website. Mathew5000 ( talk) 03:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
Canada 2006 Census. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:10, 15 January 2016 (UTC)