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First, excuse my bad English; I'm from Germany.
I find the article quite fair and balanced, although there's maybe some work to be done on it. The so-called "German Visa Affair" is a very important topic, and may have influence on the foreign policy of the EU. In the media, it all concentrates around the person of German foreign minister Joschka Fischer, which is not really true, as the Visa Affair started way earlier, when he wasn't yet in office. Fischer's public statement on the "Visa Affair" has not yet been delivered, so there can't be a real "neutral" view, and the article will have to concentrate on the few facts that are known from media reports, which it does, and gives a very comprehensive overview of the current discussion.
What may lead to confusion are the names of state authorities and federal offices; is there any guideline on how to translate the German names into English? Like, for example, the "Bundeskriminalamt" (BKA) is not a "crime agency", but the German version of the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI).
11:51, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Whoever did it, I think it is correct to label this article not neutral. This starts with the title -- "Visa Affair" is, what the opposition parties and some of the media are calling it. The parliamentary commission looking into this "affair", pun intended, is called „Sicherheitsrisiko Visapolitik“ ("safety risk: visa politics"). The commission is still working, and it is not at all clear, if in the end there will be an affair or just opposition parties blowing-up some minor errors into affair-like size. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 13:28, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"Tillwe" I witnessed that you are a pro-Green and SPD-supporter because you have worked on many articles about the Greens / SPD. That means the statement above is biased. The author of the text.
The quote below is me and others on Marcs user page about this article, and his reaction. Can some third party plase have a look and comment it, before we get a hot edit-war about this article? (I'm from Germany too, and the statement, that it is 100% correct what Marc has written seems a bit problematic to me, but maybe I'm biased ;-)) -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 11:04, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't know enough about the subject to help. But maybe it would be good to ask for a third opinion at the articles on Germany or German politics. Maurreen 19:57, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I took up your offer and edited a bit the wording of today's events. Marcschulz not only gave us another example of his unique brand of English but also his somewhat blurred vision of what actually happened today in the committee. However, I wasn't privy to their deliberations and rely heavily on newspapers myself. Hopefully, this paragraph is at least easier on the eyes now. ;) -- Istabraq 20:42, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Just for your information, I added the following intro some weeks ago, but it was repeatedly removed by Marc Schulz:
I think there are some points in this intro that could be integrated in the new intro. What do you think? -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 08:44, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It seems like the "affair" is over and done with and no new developments have taken place recently; since the new Bundestag is in session, it appears as though the committee rests. The German article looks quite good at this point: it offers a lot of information about the subject, and its neutrality is not disputed; I actually found that the German article concentrates on the issue in a concise and unbiased manner without spending too much time on opinions regarding the political parties involved; I believe that the presentation of the purely political aspects (such as Joshka Fisher's domestic and international reputation and how it may have changed as a result of the "visa-affair") are best saved for articles that directly relate to those parties and / or persons.
Unless someone has any objections, I will translate the German article in its current version, and replace this article with its direct German translation. I have translated enough German texts to be able to present even "untranslatable" concepts, such as the ones mentioned above (I believe "Bundeskriminalamt" was one of them) without any problems; please see my user page for examples. I agree that this is a "hot topic" in Germany, as well as in international politics and should be presented accurately. Therefore, I will regard lack of objection as silent approval. ( Patrick 02:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC))
Did problems occur with Ukrainian vistitors to Germany ? Did they commit many crimes ? Are Ukrainians much worse than Poles or Romanians who can visit Germany as they like ? Or was this affair concerning formal violations by the government of Germany, like violating the Schengen Treaty ? It does not follow clearly from the article. -- BIL 15:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
First, excuse my bad English; I'm from Germany.
I find the article quite fair and balanced, although there's maybe some work to be done on it. The so-called "German Visa Affair" is a very important topic, and may have influence on the foreign policy of the EU. In the media, it all concentrates around the person of German foreign minister Joschka Fischer, which is not really true, as the Visa Affair started way earlier, when he wasn't yet in office. Fischer's public statement on the "Visa Affair" has not yet been delivered, so there can't be a real "neutral" view, and the article will have to concentrate on the few facts that are known from media reports, which it does, and gives a very comprehensive overview of the current discussion.
What may lead to confusion are the names of state authorities and federal offices; is there any guideline on how to translate the German names into English? Like, for example, the "Bundeskriminalamt" (BKA) is not a "crime agency", but the German version of the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI).
11:51, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Whoever did it, I think it is correct to label this article not neutral. This starts with the title -- "Visa Affair" is, what the opposition parties and some of the media are calling it. The parliamentary commission looking into this "affair", pun intended, is called „Sicherheitsrisiko Visapolitik“ ("safety risk: visa politics"). The commission is still working, and it is not at all clear, if in the end there will be an affair or just opposition parties blowing-up some minor errors into affair-like size. -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 13:28, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"Tillwe" I witnessed that you are a pro-Green and SPD-supporter because you have worked on many articles about the Greens / SPD. That means the statement above is biased. The author of the text.
The quote below is me and others on Marcs user page about this article, and his reaction. Can some third party plase have a look and comment it, before we get a hot edit-war about this article? (I'm from Germany too, and the statement, that it is 100% correct what Marc has written seems a bit problematic to me, but maybe I'm biased ;-)) -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 11:04, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I don't know enough about the subject to help. But maybe it would be good to ask for a third opinion at the articles on Germany or German politics. Maurreen 19:57, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I took up your offer and edited a bit the wording of today's events. Marcschulz not only gave us another example of his unique brand of English but also his somewhat blurred vision of what actually happened today in the committee. However, I wasn't privy to their deliberations and rely heavily on newspapers myself. Hopefully, this paragraph is at least easier on the eyes now. ;) -- Istabraq 20:42, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Just for your information, I added the following intro some weeks ago, but it was repeatedly removed by Marc Schulz:
I think there are some points in this intro that could be integrated in the new intro. What do you think? -- till we ☼☽ | Talk 08:44, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It seems like the "affair" is over and done with and no new developments have taken place recently; since the new Bundestag is in session, it appears as though the committee rests. The German article looks quite good at this point: it offers a lot of information about the subject, and its neutrality is not disputed; I actually found that the German article concentrates on the issue in a concise and unbiased manner without spending too much time on opinions regarding the political parties involved; I believe that the presentation of the purely political aspects (such as Joshka Fisher's domestic and international reputation and how it may have changed as a result of the "visa-affair") are best saved for articles that directly relate to those parties and / or persons.
Unless someone has any objections, I will translate the German article in its current version, and replace this article with its direct German translation. I have translated enough German texts to be able to present even "untranslatable" concepts, such as the ones mentioned above (I believe "Bundeskriminalamt" was one of them) without any problems; please see my user page for examples. I agree that this is a "hot topic" in Germany, as well as in international politics and should be presented accurately. Therefore, I will regard lack of objection as silent approval. ( Patrick 02:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC))
Did problems occur with Ukrainian vistitors to Germany ? Did they commit many crimes ? Are Ukrainians much worse than Poles or Romanians who can visit Germany as they like ? Or was this affair concerning formal violations by the government of Germany, like violating the Schengen Treaty ? It does not follow clearly from the article. -- BIL 15:24, 17 February 2007 (UTC)