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Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | → | Archive 20 |
The pdf versions are out for Atlantic storms Arlene and Gert. The pdf versions are also out for Eastern Pacific storms Beatriz, Dora, Fernanda, and Lidia. And JTWC still hasn't finished all of their 2004 reports yet! -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 22:49, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
No real surprises from Arlene or Gert. I didn't think Arlene was a hurricane; if anything, I thought she might have been overestimated (after all, the damage was nowhere near what a 70 mph storm would normally produce, especially in Ivan's wake). I'd expect Bret, Harvey, Irene and Jose next...since Cindy is likely in dispute (was she a hurricane?) and they are probably still trying to confirm exact figures for Dennis (although the 150 mph peak seems correct, maybe the other figures weren't?) and Emily (was she Category 5?). CrazyC83 20:25, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
I posted a new pool on the /Betting Pools page based on Cuivienen's point. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 00:37, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Anyone notice that on the reports page, Subtropical Depression 22 is listed as "Tropical Depression Twenty-Two"? Is this just a mistake...? -- RattleMan 17:47, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
a quick idea, i think there should be a template on every hurricane page (katrina, rita, wilma etc) for quick access. The template should have all the major hurricanes of the season on the bottom, with a link to their page. Then, of course, there is a page to the main page. It'll make it a lot easier to naviagate around the hurricanes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.26.91.79 ( talk • contribs) .
How about a button bar? -- Ctrl build talk 15px| 13:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC) Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons
I think the button bar is really cool. It could go at the top and bottom of the main hurricane season page, and on the page of each storm that has its own article. -- TimL 15:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I like it. I would suggest top and bottom of storms section and bottom of the season page and on the pages where storms have own articles. Underline for landfalling and bold for retired or is that going too far? crandles 19:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Shall I templateize it now or should I make the button bar specific for each article? Should it be in all Katrina articles? Should It be in the 2005 Hurricane Season Category? --
Ctrl build
talk
20:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
--I will italicize if active, how about that.
its already templatize by {{Talk:2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season/Buttons}} -- see my
user page.
Already Inserted in every article. Jumps up and down like a hyperactive bunny. I hope there are know display issues. It is at the bottom of the articles, It seemed too gaudy for the top. It is at the top of 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season and the bottom. You can see where it links to here [1].
Just a question, does anyone here use a monitor resolution of 800x600? I would think that if they did there would be a horizontal scrollbar because of the button bar (which, BTW, is a very good idea). -- RattleMan 21:38, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
By the way, I ( CrazyC83) just created this:
Talk:2004 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons
Testing now at 800X600. If we have two more storms the buttons are screwy, but currently just miss creating a scroll bar. If it reaches that point I suggest:
--removing the depressions after two more storms
--changing the button width after two more storms
--lowering the text size after two more storms
--
Ctrl build
talk
21:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
See [here
http://www.interminatus.com/800by600buttons.png] for an image of them at 800x600.
Would two rows work? The depressions should not be removed, and reducing the width or text size would make it harder to see. CrazyC83 21:52, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I am not going to do this now, because it would make it look bad, but the spacing between the buttons can be pushed down. I will do an invisible html note in the button bar to explain which variable should be changed in the event of more storms. --
Ctrl build
talk
21:57, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
NEVERMIND -- fixed it but reducing spacing between buttons. Does not look too bad.
That works well. I created another one: Talk:2003 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons CrazyC83 22:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I just tried creating that. oooh Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. Good thing I checked here. Well...back to work at doing non-wiki work. Yes, that does exist. --
Ctrl build
talk
22:07, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
--
Ctrl build
talk
23:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
That version is also diagonal,but doesn't have blank lines between each link;each link is on the next line and one space over from the previous one.--Louis E./le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 04:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to put the 2003 button bar on the 2003 relevant pages, and I have already put the 2004 button bar on 2004 relevant pages. -- CFIF 23:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I just tried bolding the retired storms on the 2004 bar: Talk:2004 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons What do you think? PenguinCDF 23:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Could the colours be a bit more subtle please? The pure colours are bugging me, it would be nice if they were all a shade darker or something. (e.g. instead of red, you have #cc3333 or something)
Jevon 23:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
like this? --
Ctrl build
talk
23:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
To be honest I really don't see the need for this, one could simply look at what is called "contents" at the beginning and click on which storm they want to read. -- Revolución ( talk) 23:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
On the red buttons, it is difficult for me to see the text if the page is marked as visited. Ajm81 23:37, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I like these button bars. When will the ones before 2003 (like 1950-2002) be created? Dralwik 23:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Be bold in updating pages :-) --
Ctrl build
talk
00:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
A list of them all
{{User:Ctrl_build/sandbox}} --
Ctrl build
talk
00:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
does not create a template. Look at the history for 2004 and 2005's seasons to see this glitch in action. --
Ctrl build
talk
I cannot see whether a link is bolded or not. Also - could a legend be handy? S onson 01:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
(Ident = reset) I agree with that. Maybe you would like to make a test for this year's season, and then we modify it? Tito xd( ?!?) 02:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
My personal opinion is that they should not be at the top of the pages but resricted to the bottom. That's just my personal opinion. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 04:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I just tried something out - User:AySz88/Sandbox. Needs to be fleshed out more, and I haven't put things into a template format (How do you sandbox templates?). AySz88^ - ^ 23:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
This does not change:
(See Jimbo's explanation)
I wonder if objections would be satiated if we make POV userboxes an explicitly bias-countering tool by rewording them along these lines (as an example):
See better examples below
If desired, one could extend this to five types by adding these two:
Of course, not all userboxes would have to have the same wording, they would just need to somehow make it clear that the box isn't advocating/advertising the POV, but is expressing a possible bias in encyclopedia-writing.
(Copied from my post at Wikipedia talk:Userboxes#POV Userbox Suggestion. -- AySz88 ^ - ^ 06:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC))
If one has any objections or improvements, feel free to edit or comment here.
Year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Avg AMO over yr,± 5 year moving average of AMO index,Majors,"Majors, diff from avg",± 5 year moving average of major hurricanes
1856,,0.204,0.137,0.208,0.128,0.18,0.203,0.216,0.193,0.26,0.11,0.121,0.214,0.181166667,,2,, 1857,,0.199,-0.074,-0.089,-0.007,-0.047,0.086,0.117,-0.017,0.005,-0.148,-0.182,-0.297,-0.037833333,,0,, 1858,,-0.235,-0.328,-0.085,0.198,0.076,-0.053,-0.174,-0.085,0.057,0.135,0.261,0.109,-0.010333333,,0,, 1859,,-0.147,-0.135,0.046,0.136,0.074,-0.115,-0.194,0.049,0.067,0.114,0.046,0.068,0.00075,,1,, 1860,,0.101,-0.126,0.047,-0.083,0.155,0.289,0.216,0.026,-0.018,0.096,-0.021,0.128,0.0675,,1,, 1861,,-0.013,-0.123,-0.02,0.234,0.181,0.278,0.4,0.289,0.246,0.201,0.203,0.102,0.164833333,0.03730303,0,, 1862,,-0.041,-0.176,-0.086,-0.139,-0.194,-0.057,-0.307,-0.281,-0.269,-0.278,-0.365,-0.371,-0.213666667,0.032439394,0,, 1863,,-0.16,-0.057,0.014,0.036,0.011,-0.055,-0.307,-0.313,-0.171,-0.247,-0.191,-0.129,-0.13075,0.048606061,0,, 1864,,-0.219,-0.369,-0.195,-0.048,0.059,0.102,0.248,0.335,0.182,0.113,0.174,0.176,0.0465,0.056954545,0,, 1865,,0.175,0.235,0.149,0.045,0.014,0.184,0.106,0.026,0.27,0.236,0.201,0.201,0.1535,0.057325758,0,, 1866,,0.034,0.161,0.196,0.114,0.157,0.334,0.264,0.242,0.13,0.123,0.25,0.259,0.188666667,0.052848485,1,, 1867,,0.295,0.267,0.369,0.279,0.141,0.071,0.09,0.053,-0.015,-0.045,0.096,-0.069,0.127666667,0.045234848,1,, 1868,,0.045,0.114,0.186,0.244,0.17,0.31,0.389,0.187,0.131,-0.13,-0.072,0.106,0.14,0.067916667,0,, 1869,,-0.129,0.075,0.061,0.229,0.266,0.199,0.265,0.119,0.079,-0.022,-0.061,-0.103,0.0815,0.076833333,1,, 1870,,-0.174,-0.007,-0.058,-0.184,-0.045,-0.028,-0.056,0.084,0.134,0.141,0.158,0.093,0.004833333,0.07475,2 1871,,-0.152,-0.134,0.114,0.164,0.127,0.116,0.156,0.042,-0.103,-0.163,-0.019,0.071,0.01825,0.05780303,2 1872,,-0.085,-0.069,-0.101,-0.089,0.161,0.202,0.269,0.369,0.4,0.032,-0.049,-0.067,0.081083333,0.061636364,0 1873,,0.038,-0.011,0.026,0.03,-0.064,-0.054,0.069,0.029,0.13,0.066,0.046,0.125,0.035833333,0.09025,2 1874,,0.036,-0.128,-0.134,-0.105,0,0.148,0.086,-0.028,0.166,-0.055,-0.073,-0.305,-0.032666667,0.088,0 1875,,-0.181,0.052,0.021,0.003,0.149,0.155,-0.011,0.076,0.125,0.057,-0.073,-0.09,0.023583333,0.085371212,1 1876,,-0.219,-0.089,-0.105,-0.084,-0.085,-0.019,0.102,0.161,0.135,-0.068,-0.094,-0.03,-0.032916667,0.08794697,2 1877,,-0.006,0.145,0.228,0.134,0.243,0.312,0.289,0.352,0.252,0.222,0.29,0.309,0.230833333,0.083098485,1 1878,,0.23,0.324,0.335,0.633,0.514,0.617,0.41,0.577,0.538,0.308,0.362,0.461,0.442416667,0.071931818,2 1879,,0.313,0.369,0.009,0.027,0.235,0.166,0.074,0.006,-0.033,0.051,0.058,0.108,0.11525,0.060984848,2 1880,,0.067,-0.006,0.08,-0.048,-0.149,-0.022,0.108,0.091,0.245,0.221,0.138,-0.094,0.052583333,0.060977273,2 1881,,0.16,0.115,0.181,0.212,0.106,0.112,0,0.037,-0.031,-0.078,-0.313,-0.103,0.033166667,0.069280303,0 1882,,-0.139,-0.106,-0.04,-0.135,-0.138,-0.008,0.054,0.062,0.034,-0.022,0.007,0.01,-0.035083333,0.082568182,2 1883,,-0.055,-0.17,-0.159,0.022,0.028,-0.035,-0.049,0.013,-0.096,-0.118,-0.011,0.129,-0.04175,0.078598485,2 1884,,0.028,-0.147,-0.113,-0.066,-0.051,0.134,-0.033,-0.011,-0.153,-0.146,-0.342,-0.115,-0.084583333,0.05569697,1 1885,,-0.067,0.044,-0.034,-0.25,-0.165,-0.131,-0.023,0.115,0.036,0.034,0.013,0.035,-0.03275,0.031401515,1 1886,,0.133,0.129,0.186,0.21,0.237,0.206,0.249,0.067,0.005,-0.015,-0.011,-0.017,0.114916667,0.029121212,4,,,, 1887,,-0.096,-0.083,-0.019,-0.061,0.05,0.225,0.343,0.209,0.162,0.246,0.191,0.192,0.11325,0.017166667,2,,,, 1888,,0.244,0.181,0.266,0.134,0.141,0.264,0.199,0.158,0.161,0.267,0.14,0.091,0.187166667,0.019287879,2,,,, 1889,,0.249,0.256,0.331,0.312,0.313,0.225,0.075,0.094,0.103,0.102,0.176,0.05,0.1905,0.000401515,0,,,, 1890,,0.03,0.014,-0.041,-0.155,-0.147,-0.103,-0.256,-0.302,-0.26,-0.084,-0.272,-0.248,-0.152,-0.001015152,1,,,, 1891,,-0.276,-0.086,0.075,0.111,0.178,0.165,0.243,0.101,0.009,0.027,-0.237,0.02,0.0275,0.01119697,1,,,, 1892,,0.064,0.124,0.097,0.005,-0.127,-0.145,-0.25,-0.105,-0.212,-0.181,-0.275,-0.175,-0.098333333,0.010318182,0,,,, 1893,,-0.101,-0.053,-0.041,-0.153,-0.133,0.127,0.18,0.165,0.053,-0.057,0.026,-0.154,-0.01175,0.006356061,5,,,, 1894,,-0.145,-0.164,-0.184,-0.28,-0.355,-0.321,-0.223,-0.234,-0.222,-0.332,-0.31,-0.224,-0.2495,0.00055303,4,1.921568627,,, 1895,,-0.112,-0.08,-0.26,-0.288,-0.203,-0.103,-0.069,-0.091,0.078,0.076,-0.104,-0.046,-0.100166667,-0.008257576,0,-2.078431373,,, 1896,,-0.062,0.036,-0.036,0.051,0.261,0.193,0.105,0.084,0.317,0.162,0.049,0.059,0.101583333,0.013325758,2,-0.078431373,,, 1897,,0.082,0.135,0.306,0.25,0.165,0.101,0.099,0.02,0.049,0.078,-0.012,-0.01,0.10525,0.001333333,0,-2.078431373,,, 1898,,-0.014,0.059,0.109,0.063,0.092,0.212,0.218,0.141,0.107,-0.026,-0.127,0.002,0.069666667,-0.007439394,1,-1.078431373,,, 1899,,-0.063,-0.05,-0.006,0.088,0.204,0.19,0.113,0.272,0.132,0.095,0.203,0.302,0.123333333,-0.038136364,2,-0.078431373,-0.987522282,, 1900,,0.212,0.207,0.066,0.168,0.001,0.005,0.097,0.003,0.053,0.121,0.049,0.141,0.093583333,-0.034007576,2,-0.078431373,-1.260249554,, 1901,,0.054,0.191,0.164,0.157,0.087,0.224,0.189,0.187,0.008,-0.102,-0.074,-0.06,0.085416667,-0.031621212,0,-2.078431373,-0.987522282,, 1902,,-0.112,-0.027,-0.019,-0.144,-0.085,-0.246,-0.286,-0.167,0.004,0.021,-0.111,-0.081,-0.104416667,-0.061507576,0,-2.078431373,-1.169340463 1903,,-0.036,0.058,-0.053,-0.064,-0.139,-0.171,-0.158,-0.44,-0.451,-0.362,-0.234,-0.288,-0.194833333,-0.082893939,1,-1.078431373,-1.078431373 1904,,-0.348,-0.37,-0.375,-0.418,-0.394,-0.425,-0.334,-0.344,-0.474,-0.366,-0.195,-0.15,-0.349416667,-0.101628788,0,-2.078431373,-0.8057041 1905,,-0.221,-0.179,-0.355,-0.169,-0.059,-0.168,-0.051,-0.139,-0.353,-0.248,-0.265,-0.242,-0.204083333,-0.135242424,1,-1.078431373,-0.896613191 1906,,-0.068,-0.028,-0.049,-0.041,-0.156,0.011,-0.004,-0.061,-0.117,-0.138,-0.014,-0.222,-0.073916667,-0.163022727,3,0.921568627,-1.078431373 1907,,-0.182,-0.346,-0.252,-0.158,-0.146,-0.25,-0.277,-0.312,-0.175,-0.216,-0.224,-0.188,-0.227166667,-0.191325758,0,-2.078431373,-0.987522282 1908,,-0.228,-0.23,-0.238,-0.206,-0.161,-0.061,0.027,0.011,-0.086,-0.118,-0.152,-0.118,-0.13,-0.216840909,1,-1.078431373,-0.987522282 1909,,-0.101,-0.14,-0.098,-0.146,-0.004,-0.126,-0.164,-0.08,-0.112,-0.148,-0.288,-0.23,-0.136416667,-0.22519697,4,1.921568627,-1.078431373 1910,,-0.303,-0.248,-0.257,-0.307,-0.338,-0.358,-0.285,-0.257,-0.103,-0.187,-0.075,-0.239,-0.246416667,-0.184613636,1,-1.078431373,-0.8057041 1911,,-0.249,-0.249,-0.305,-0.317,-0.34,-0.236,-0.165,-0.062,-0.115,-0.11,-0.227,-0.169,-0.212,-0.172636364,0,-2.078431373,-0.351158645 1912,,-0.233,-0.257,-0.214,-0.165,-0.112,-0.147,-0.253,-0.391,-0.241,-0.247,-0.219,-0.232,-0.225916667,-0.190916667,1,-1.078431373,-0.442067736 1913,,-0.303,-0.208,-0.222,-0.438,-0.445,-0.562,-0.435,-0.431,-0.424,-0.378,-0.452,-0.323,-0.385083333,-0.193484848,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1914,,-0.219,-0.315,-0.402,-0.381,-0.259,-0.373,-0.428,-0.366,-0.185,-0.109,-0.18,-0.224,-0.28675,-0.198113636,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1915,,-0.125,-0.113,0,0.056,0.265,0.298,0.321,0.216,0.201,0.032,-0.002,0.015,0.097,-0.215651515,3,0.921568627,-0.8057041 1916,,-0.035,-0.094,-0.089,-0.114,0.024,0.033,-0.071,-0.012,0,-0.07,-0.236,-0.204,-0.072333333,-0.212681818,6,3.921568627,-0.714795009 1917,,-0.289,-0.345,-0.397,-0.301,-0.249,-0.147,-0.204,-0.187,-0.277,-0.336,-0.314,-0.254,-0.275,-0.221924242,2,-0.078431373,-0.623885918 1918,,-0.096,-0.17,-0.112,-0.173,-0.233,-0.413,-0.361,-0.385,-0.359,-0.252,-0.293,-0.218,-0.255416667,-0.230212121,0,-2.078431373,-0.623885918 1919,,-0.22,-0.053,-0.186,-0.049,-0.158,-0.216,-0.277,-0.185,-0.186,-0.136,-0.221,-0.284,-0.180916667,-0.208393939,1,-1.078431373,-0.442067736 1920,,-0.455,-0.396,-0.445,-0.328,-0.245,-0.274,-0.268,-0.296,-0.269,-0.26,-0.42,-0.296,-0.329333333,-0.196098485,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1921,,-0.283,-0.266,-0.31,-0.256,-0.243,-0.24,-0.1,-0.238,-0.217,-0.046,-0.254,-0.112,-0.21375,-0.196378788,2,-0.078431373,-0.169340463 1922,,-0.197,-0.234,-0.333,-0.402,-0.31,-0.323,-0.368,-0.301,-0.359,-0.278,-0.343,-0.316,-0.313666667,-0.178984848,1,-1.078431373,-0.532976827 1923,,-0.355,-0.452,-0.395,-0.421,-0.272,-0.305,-0.313,-0.417,-0.361,-0.255,-0.207,-0.052,-0.317083333,-0.153666667,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1924,,-0.122,-0.19,-0.095,-0.048,0.054,-0.088,-0.117,-0.128,-0.195,-0.227,-0.307,-0.278,-0.145083333,-0.139704545,2,-0.078431373,-0.532976827 1925,,-0.317,-0.302,-0.229,-0.17,-0.068,-0.18,-0.135,-0.123,-0.11,-0.078,-0.162,0.056,-0.1515,-0.121325758,0,-2.078431373,-0.532976827 1926,,0.043,0.116,0.056,0.118,0.134,0.078,0.15,0.061,0.051,0.186,0.035,0.099,0.093916667,-0.074159091,6,3.921568627,-0.442067736 1927,,0.09,0.086,0.049,0.077,0.201,0.164,0.164,0.166,0.115,0.183,0.147,-0.014,0.119,-0.032939394,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1928,,-0.036,-0.085,-0.084,-0.089,0.026,0.076,0.095,0.111,0.097,0.052,-0.041,-0.08,0.0035,0.014159091,1,-1.078431373,0.103386809 1929,,-0.078,-0.09,-0.079,-0.005,-0.1,-0.182,-0.169,-0.144,-0.054,-0.043,-0.103,-0.175,-0.101833333,0.043386364,1,-1.078431373,0.012477718 1930,,-0.112,-0.164,-0.084,-0.199,-0.1,-0.069,0.071,0.081,0.299,0.213,0.165,0.154,0.02125,0.059318182,1,-1.078431373,0.103386809 1931,,0.126,0.077,0.16,0.163,0.237,0.281,0.206,0.163,0.275,0.331,0.071,0.184,0.1895,0.087909091,1,-1.078431373,0.1942959 1932,,0.189,0.242,0.259,0.225,0.166,0.256,0.283,0.399,0.349,0.25,0.15,0.108,0.239666667,0.107257576,4,1.921568627,-0.351158645 1933,,0.101,0.169,0.103,0.224,0.304,0.257,0.293,0.294,0.256,0.344,0.093,0.015,0.204416667,0.119575758,5,2.921568627,-0.442067736 1934,,-0.098,-0.177,-0.197,-0.079,-0.099,0.047,0.184,0.093,0.155,0.184,0.031,0.009,0.004416667,0.130363636,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1935,,0.056,-0.121,-0.136,0.068,0.155,0.123,0.077,0.019,-0.023,-0.005,0.034,0.115,0.030166667,0.138189394,3,0.921568627,-0.532976827 1936,,0.151,0.159,0.208,0.21,0.182,0.207,0.209,0.228,0.188,0.118,0.034,0.062,0.163,0.153340909,1,-1.078431373,-0.442067736 1937,,0.069,0.1,0.113,0.084,0.145,0.465,0.625,0.606,0.522,0.312,0.271,0.369,0.30675,0.154060606,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1938,,0.226,0.167,0.214,0.253,0.218,0.183,0.22,0.313,0.323,0.37,0.334,0.233,0.2545,0.136568182,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1939,,0.15,0.094,-0.017,0.109,0.121,0.192,0.341,0.338,0.315,0.025,-0.138,-0.064,0.122166667,0.151045455,1,-1.078431373,-0.8057041 1940,,0.078,-0.178,-0.128,-0.016,0.018,0.03,0.112,0.122,0.041,-0.032,-0.115,-0.121,-0.01575,0.171984848,0,-2.078431373,-0.532976827 1941,,-0.045,0.111,0.148,0.081,0.054,-0.002,0.105,0.295,0.321,0.433,0.41,0.344,0.187916667,0.17230303,2,-0.078431373,-0.714795009 1942,,0.152,0.215,0.209,0.222,0.227,0.277,0.118,0.163,0.241,0.221,0.214,0.11,0.197416667,0.151098485,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1943,,0.148,0.114,-0.085,-0.118,-0.105,-0.058,0.034,0.035,0.095,0.099,0.161,0.247,0.04725,0.125734848,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1944,,0.32,0.337,0.442,0.334,0.311,0.367,0.381,0.463,0.437,0.386,0.292,0.294,0.363666667,0.112340909,3,0.921568627,-0.078431373 1945,,0.28,0.369,0.385,0.432,0.33,0.195,0.105,0.128,0.106,0.123,0.205,0.159,0.23475,0.101848485,3,0.921568627,0.557932264 1946,,0.298,0.212,0.152,0.083,0.111,-0.079,-0.184,-0.143,0.004,0.006,-0.043,-0.013,0.033666667,0.123159091,1,-1.078431373,1.012477718 1947,,-0.152,-0.105,-0.069,-0.074,-0.132,-0.13,-0.134,-0.077,-0.028,-0.068,0.07,0.056,-0.07025,0.134310606,2,-0.078431373,1.103386809 1948,,0.008,-0.005,0.051,-0.047,0.019,0.078,-0.016,0,-0.029,0.031,0.157,0.086,0.02775,0.141833333,4,1.921568627,1.376114082 1949,,0.176,0.184,0.062,0.122,0,0.025,0.095,0.126,0.094,0.128,0.132,0.142,0.107166667,0.142916667,3,0.921568627,1.376114082 1950,,0.135,-0.01,-0.081,-0.106,-0.035,-0.019,-0.031,0.044,0.034,-0.066,0.104,0.112,0.00675,0.128871212,8,5.921568627,1.648841355 1951,,0.127,0.023,0.037,0.193,0.197,0.314,0.447,0.329,0.274,0.284,0.199,0.2,0.218666667,0.107310606,5,2.921568627,1.557932264 1952,,0.197,0.208,0.256,0.216,0.206,0.409,0.397,0.429,0.387,0.38,0.276,0.366,0.310583333,0.109492424,3,0.921568627,1.648841355 1953,,0.291,0.21,0.167,0.339,0.368,0.301,0.369,0.284,0.305,0.174,0.27,0.284,0.280166667,0.136962121,4,1.921568627,1.921568627 1954,,0.253,0.121,0.127,0.012,0.095,0.125,-0.019,0.011,0.015,-0.005,0,-0.025,0.059166667,0.140833333,2,-0.078431373,1.739750446 1955,,0.102,0.067,0.067,0.122,0.203,0.22,0.295,0.202,0.23,0.306,0.413,0.283,0.209166667,0.154136364,6,3.921568627,1.648841355 1956,,0.213,0.121,0.04,0.09,-0.031,-0.237,-0.063,-0.071,-0.062,-0.016,-0.059,0.046,-0.002416667,0.164257576,2,-0.078431373,1.557932264 1957,,-0.054,-0.079,0.008,-0.046,-0.094,0.015,0.067,0.23,0.249,0.177,0.112,0.107,0.057666667,0.152659091,2,-0.078431373,1.1942959 1958,,0.077,0.218,0.373,0.374,0.23,0.25,0.192,0.189,0.24,0.179,0.213,0.248,0.231916667,0.126613636,5,2.921568627,1.103386809 1959,,0.128,0.142,0.001,0.024,0.035,-0.032,-0.003,0.04,0.153,0.14,0.079,0.137,0.070333333,0.094234848,2,-0.078431373,1.285204991 1960,,0.205,0.245,0.116,0.125,0.331,0.348,0.299,0.363,0.24,0.325,0.279,0.166,0.2535,0.076159091,2,-0.078431373,1.1942959 1961,,0.089,0.11,0.177,0.255,0.223,0.061,0.01,0.064,0.032,0.058,0.096,0.242,0.118083333,0.059356061,7,4.921568627,0.921568627 1962,,0.178,0.181,0.195,0.117,0.052,-0.042,0.021,-0.034,0.034,0.095,0.076,0.22,0.091083333,0.052522727,1,-1.078431373,0.830659537 1963,,0.187,0.196,0.163,0.134,-0.055,-0.017,-0.006,-0.043,-0.172,-0.041,-0.027,-0.03,0.024083333,0.033992424,2,-0.078431373,0.648841355 1964,,-0.045,0.051,0.069,-0.116,0.071,0.034,-0.114,-0.204,-0.19,-0.241,-0.136,-0.091,-0.076,0.015719697,6,3.921568627,0.648841355 1965,,-0.168,-0.147,-0.048,-0.066,-0.068,-0.096,-0.158,-0.179,-0.191,-0.217,-0.245,-0.093,-0.139666667,0.001939394,1,-1.078431373,0.648841355 1966,,-0.046,0.041,0.021,0.075,0.033,-0.014,-0.025,-0.013,0.031,0.044,0.034,0.111,0.024333333,-0.047522727,3,0.921568627,0.557932264 1967,,0.112,0.119,-0.002,0.016,-0.155,-0.23,-0.199,-0.133,-0.066,-0.068,-0.203,-0.122,-0.077583333,-0.088431818,1,-1.078431373,-0.078431373 1968,,-0.215,-0.167,-0.177,-0.123,-0.092,-0.231,-0.198,-0.181,-0.118,-0.081,-0.076,-0.095,-0.146166667,-0.114356061,0,-2.078431373,-0.078431373 1969,,-0.031,0.136,0.24,0.181,0.044,0.061,0.126,-0.069,-0.074,-0.153,-0.091,0.001,0.030916667,-0.152825758,5,2.921568627,-0.078431373 1970,,0.023,-0.016,0.052,0.053,-0.013,-0.149,-0.167,-0.108,-0.104,-0.163,-0.207,-0.176,-0.08125,-0.171083333,2,-0.078431373,-0.351158645 1971,,-0.213,-0.259,-0.277,-0.379,-0.293,-0.33,-0.315,-0.402,-0.333,-0.202,-0.209,-0.275,-0.290583333,-0.189454545,1,-1.078431373,-0.260249554 1972,,-0.284,-0.346,-0.405,-0.292,-0.435,-0.454,-0.34,-0.349,-0.268,-0.252,-0.242,-0.316,-0.331916667,-0.206840909,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1973,,-0.339,-0.359,-0.309,-0.229,-0.134,-0.14,-0.068,-0.098,-0.096,-0.18,-0.174,-0.203,-0.194083333,-0.214037879,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1974,,-0.241,-0.249,-0.366,-0.488,-0.464,-0.412,-0.479,-0.432,-0.47,-0.472,-0.39,-0.326,-0.399083333,-0.208628788,2,-0.078431373,-0.169340463 1975,,-0.236,-0.303,-0.274,-0.309,-0.351,-0.259,-0.235,-0.149,-0.3,-0.317,-0.304,-0.285,-0.276833333,-0.21094697,3,0.921568627,-0.442067736 1976,,-0.348,-0.405,-0.457,-0.39,-0.452,-0.447,-0.271,-0.148,-0.155,-0.256,-0.378,-0.394,-0.34175,-0.208318182,2,-0.078431373,-0.351158645 1977,,-0.352,-0.296,-0.146,-0.18,-0.132,-0.07,-0.068,-0.107,-0.194,-0.186,-0.105,-0.167,-0.166916667,-0.198931818,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1978,,-0.068,-0.109,-0.12,-0.156,-0.165,-0.294,-0.238,-0.188,-0.151,-0.168,-0.08,-0.144,-0.15675,-0.172901515,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1979,,-0.153,-0.111,-0.189,-0.198,-0.078,-0.002,-0.054,-0.075,-0.069,-0.047,-0.045,-0.019,-0.086666667,-0.171757576,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1980,,0.039,-0.038,-0.098,0.04,0.17,0.149,0.091,0.064,0.033,-0.021,-0.156,-0.208,0.005416667,-0.157234848,2,-0.078431373,-0.169340463 1981,,-0.135,-0.135,0.047,-0.05,-0.038,-0.016,-0.048,-0.069,0.01,-0.14,-0.089,0.035,-0.052333333,-0.154371212,3,0.921568627,-0.442067736 1982,,-0.037,-0.035,-0.036,-0.134,-0.152,-0.138,-0.181,-0.26,-0.257,-0.313,-0.369,-0.336,-0.187333333,-0.114962121,1,-1.078431373,-0.532976827 1983,,-0.253,-0.061,0.125,0.109,0.002,-0.008,0.036,-0.111,-0.169,-0.149,-0.112,0.044,-0.045583333,-0.097462121,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1984,,-0.057,-0.039,-0.078,-0.108,-0.123,-0.28,-0.224,-0.183,-0.161,-0.285,-0.372,-0.268,-0.1815,-0.087939394,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1985,,-0.306,-0.281,-0.31,-0.352,-0.292,-0.077,-0.103,-0.227,-0.196,-0.198,-0.246,-0.284,-0.239333333,-0.080484848,3,0.921568627,-0.442067736 1986,,-0.292,-0.227,-0.242,-0.269,-0.183,-0.206,-0.195,-0.22,-0.165,-0.269,-0.35,-0.326,-0.245333333,-0.090136364,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1987,,-0.232,-0.171,0.012,0.075,0.101,0.244,0.327,0.329,0.247,0.1,-0.022,0.091,0.09175,-0.102590909,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1988,,0.007,-0.065,0.038,0.103,0.185,0.217,0.17,0.046,-0.04,-0.12,-0.109,-0.125,0.025583333,-0.101840909,3,0.921568627,-0.623885918 1989,,-0.18,-0.112,-0.202,-0.23,-0.099,0.135,0.225,0.163,-0.041,-0.075,-0.101,-0.107,-0.052,-0.110265152,2,-0.078431373,-0.714795009 1990,,-0.25,-0.111,-0.126,-0.059,-0.012,-0.008,0.029,0.099,0.197,0.167,0.001,0.017,-0.004666667,-0.078265152,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1991,,-0.142,-0.067,-0.019,-0.078,-0.112,-0.089,-0.063,-0.058,0.01,-0.209,-0.21,-0.172,-0.10075,-0.058704545,2,-0.078431373,-0.078431373 1992,,-0.147,-0.053,-0.05,-0.138,-0.184,-0.104,-0.172,-0.331,-0.319,-0.247,-0.286,-0.241,-0.189333333,-0.028469697,1,-1.078431373,0.012477718 1993,,-0.198,-0.143,-0.203,-0.127,-0.123,-0.131,-0.232,-0.181,-0.113,-0.188,-0.266,-0.244,-0.179083333,0.000628788,1,-1.078431373,0.1942959 1994,,-0.243,-0.259,-0.23,-0.146,-0.157,-0.173,-0.179,-0.178,-0.088,0.006,0.034,-0.046,-0.13825,0.013113636,0,-2.078431373,0.376114082 1995,,-0.016,0.013,0.071,0.127,0.315,0.418,0.366,0.237,0.109,0.151,0.17,0.085,0.1705,0.024189394,5,2.921568627,0.467023173 1996,,0.036,0.015,-0.012,0.057,-0.019,-0.077,-0.059,0.043,0.051,-0.097,-0.126,-0.102,-0.024166667,0.039613636,6,3.921568627,0.739750446 1997,,-0.037,0.016,0.055,0.055,0.083,0.062,0.116,0.068,0.157,0.198,0.095,0.179,0.08725,0.058742424,1,-1.078431373,0.739750446 1998,,0.181,0.342,0.372,0.346,0.427,0.54,0.543,0.571,0.472,0.441,0.376,0.331,0.411833333,0.101022727,3,0.921568627,0.921568627,, 1999,,0.103,0.108,0.122,0.109,0.219,0.245,0.259,0.37,0.249,0.084,0.016,0.071,0.162916667,0.140037879,5,2.921568627,1.376114082,, 2000,,-0.031,0.012,0.154,0.1,0.159,0.038,0.129,0.159,0.16,0.018,0.008,-0.068,0.069833333,0.183181818,3,0.921568627,2.012477718,, 2001,,-0.067,0.031,0.077,0.049,0.041,0.253,0.196,0.241,0.355,0.321,0.217,0.266,0.165,0.196739669,4,1.921568627,1.739750446,, 2002,,0.232,0.221,0.203,0.086,0.007,-0.059,-0.002,0.169,0.145,0.175,0.079,0.06,0.109666667,,2,-0.078431373,,, 2003,,0.107,0.039,0.161,0.13,0.209,0.266,0.346,0.484,0.514,0.487,0.283,0.283,0.27575,,3,0.921568627,,, 2004,,0.266,0.264,0.212,0.167,0.053,0.233,0.29,0.377,0.299,0.304,0.288,0.248,0.250083333,,6,3.921568627,,, 2005,,0.171,0.18,0.339,0.352,0.347,0.384,0.513,0.503,0.482,0.298,0.194,0.273,0.336333333,,7,4.921568627,,, 2006,,0.179,0.127,0.113,0.256,0.364,0.395,0.441,0.473,0.431,0.397,0.34,,0.319636364,,2,-0.078431373,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Average Majors, 1900 to 2001",2.078431373,,,,
/T3: Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 13/T3
The buttonbar at the top of the season page is hideous. There is a table of contents. There are DOZENS of links to the major storms in the article. People don't need their hands held THAT much. Furthermore, I'm starting to resent the attitudes of some editors here. Someone put it in saying, quote, "(It has become the standard that due to the length of the hurricane season articles, you put it in twice, storm articles only have it once at the bottom. It is for convienence's sake.)" I'm sorry, I wasn't aware standards were drafted, argued, and instituted in the space of 12 hours. If I missed that memo, please enlighten me. Back to my main point: It's hideous, and we don't need YET ANOTHER link to the 23 storms in this article. It MIGHT be useful - I won't say yes or no yet - on the storm articles, but it's horrible here. How many times do you have to give people links to the storms? Furthermore, it puts too much reliance on the designations. Its only use that I can see is as a graphical indicator of the season's strength - seeing the intensities in order and such. I don't see myself or anyone else ever using this thing for navigation - especially on the season page, where we already have a table of contents! Why, on Hurricane Dennis, would I think, "Hm, let's learn about Tammy" and click T, which takes me, well, here. Then I go back? To learn about another storm? Why not just stay where I am? Again - Do we really think our readers are so stupid we have to give them eighteen different and sometimes horribly formatted opportunities to learn about a vaguely relevant storm? If they want to find out what other storms were notable in a season, and they're on the Dennis page, they can bloody go to the season page, giving them a bar with a link to "K" does them nothing. Was K notable? Should they be expected to click through these to find useful articles? -- Golbez 08:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
The template {{2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season_buttons}} has been completed. It uses all of the higher level templates noted.
I'm not a particular fan of the button bar, but PLEASE remove it from the top of the season page. It's really ugly to see that as the first thing, especially as I can't recall another Wikipedia page that has a menu bar at the top like that. TOC exists for a reason. --
Goobergunch|
?
16:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I think that the button bar is ugly as sin (no offense intended, just my opinion). It is completely redundant to the table of contents. The article is very easy to navigate without it. There is only one section between the storms and the TOC, anyway. It makes the page less accessible for people using screen readers and other assistive technologies. On a related note, the infobox at the top right and the season summary are basically redundant. There is too much junk here; we need to make the article more efficient and get it to a more desirable length. Stuff like "early expectations were blah blah, and these have been born out..." just needs to go. Let the facts speak for themselves. All of the blurbage about records puts the season in perspective already. There is just too much here. -- Mm35173 17:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
<--
RESTORING DELETED COMMENT
If you hover over the color part now, you get more information about each stom, especially for the 22nd and 23rd, and this can be expanded. --
Ctrl build
talk
03:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
This looks better... I'm not as opposed to it just being at the bottom; the bottom of the page is not as cluttered as the top. Could you shrink it so that it doesn't cross the whole page? -- Mm35173 16:44, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I am going to add on some of my problems with the bar. The hover over the letter to see which storm it is is nice, but it doesn't work for all of the storms. Fix it so that when you hover over "L", it says Tropical Storm Lee rather than 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, same with Alpha so it says Tropical Storm Alpha rather than Tropical Storm Alpha (2005). Next thing, get rid of the colors, no one knows what the colors mean other than the regular contributors to this article. Also, I just don't think it is necessary on the main page at all, the storms are already linked to their own articles at least four times already. -- Holderca1 19:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I like the button bar, if nothing else it's colorful. It should be added to the Pacific hurricane season pages too. I'd code it but I'm on the road and in the air this week and it's late here in the US Midwest. To bad we can't do something like this for the Pacific typhoon page where the storms don't follow the alphabet. -- SkyWayMan 05:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Several of you have taken the button bar and put it onto every hurricane since 1990. The problem is you've used a template in the talk space. This cannot remain like this. You guys need to go through and move every one of them over and fix every article. (In other news, I think the new buttonbars look a lot better and are pretty usable.) Jdorje 01:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
In light of the recent discussions and the large amount of time deliberating over whether certain articles are warranted or not, I believe that we need to come up with some form of standard for when a storm warrants a seperate article or not. The old way of when the section in the main article has too much info in it has several problems with it. First it will bias those storms affecting the U.S. due to the larger amount of media attention the U.S. media give to U.S. storms. The second being the large amount of gray area and the ensuing discussions on those articles. So I am creating this poll to see what everyone's opinion is and hopefully we can come to some type of concensus. Just vote under whichever section you feel it should be. -- Holderca1 06:49, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
All landfalling storms get their own article, fishspinners do not:
All landfalling hurricanes get their own article, all others do not:
All landfalling hurricanes and only deadly tropical storms get their own article, all others do not:
All storms causing fatalites get their own article, all others do not:
Only storms whose names are retired get their own article, all others do not:
Keep it the way it has been done in the past:
Comments:
What's a deadly storm? One that kills *anyone*? Well over half of the storms cause at least one death I believe. And what about indirect deaths? In my opinion we need to have exact criteria: either (1) only retired names or (2) all storms. The latter isn't as bad as it sounds since if *all* storms had separate articles ( Hurricane Maria (2005)) we could trim the main article way down...and we could add track maps and other pictures for each storm that wouldn't fit in the main article. Jdorje 07:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Last year, articles were made for Charley, Frances, Jeanne, and Ivan - the ones that got retired, and obviously the most notable of the season. This year we have more iffy ones - Ophelia and Alpha, to be specific. Frankly, Ophelia needs to be killed, and Alpha, well, time will tell. But my general feeling is, only when the article outgrows the season page, or is very obviously going to be a major event, do we give it its own article. Ophelia fits neither criteria. -- Golbez 09:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Yep, Ophelia and Alpha definitely need to be weeded out. So does Vince, which is remarkable only in formation and landfall location. Beta's separate article is still premature. B.Wind 10:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I appreciate the purpose of the poll, but this is instruction creep. I know that the editors here have longstanding ways of doing things, but remember, Wikipedia is a wiki, and is not a democracy. -- Mm35173 14:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Just curious, since these are (usually) extremely rare storms (there have only been 28 storms that have reached that intensity), should a Category 5 fish-spinner have its own article in the future? (It has only happened three times and we have little information for any of the three past such storms) CrazyC83 16:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
The main article is 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. This is the article from which all the others spring off of.
Now, sometimes, these storms are notable in themselves - Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan, Wilma.
Sometimes, however, they are notable because of a quirk of history, that they were the first ever known to be something. Vince, Alpha.
And then we have the fishspinners, or the storms that caused minor damage. Arlene, Franklin, Harvey, to name a few.
Now, I don't think anyone disagrees with giving the inherently notable storms articles. They aren't children of the 2005 season article - they are articles in themselves, storms individually so notable that the season is almost irrelevant.
So then we have the remainder. There are two classes of storms here - the ones that warrant enough information on this article to get their own article, because it has outgrown this one, for formatting, readability, or comprehensiveness; and those which were so boring that they rightly consume no more than a handful of paragraphs.
So, now that I've established my premise, let's go over that list again: Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan, and Wilma. Each one of these is not only inherently notable, but easily outgrew the article; the Katrina article and its children are longer than the season article.
So then we have the ones that don't instantly reckon an article. The first criteria to look for is: Does the available information we have outgrow this article? Looking at the article, I see:
That's just my take on how the season article and its various children are working out. In related news, the Monthly Summary comes out early tomorrow, and that will have updated damage, death, and intensity estimates for the October storms. Let's see if we can glean any information from it. -- Golbez 20:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
My basic take on this is that the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season article is way too long. Our goal should be to make it into something that a regular person could read through from start to finish, using summaries where necessary to condense text that would otherwise be too long. A related problem is that the text is too "dense" in many places - people don't want to read the exact wind speed or pressure of every hurricane or the distance from some unknown island where it formed; if that's the kind of information we want to present we should do it via a picture of some kind rather than via text.
As storms go, I think each storm should have a two-paragraph summary - Katrina is a good example; as the the most notable storm it now has two long paragraphs for its summary (about 15 lines in total). However this is a problem because Arlene, Bret, Cindy, Irene and possibly others have summaries that are (by my standards) too long...and I don't want to condense them since without a "main article" for these storms that will mean some writing is lost.
So. I have no problem with adding more articles, *if* they have more info than the summary. If we make the summaries smaller, then we can have more short articles that expand on the summaries. The article doesn't have to be that lengthy so long as it is high-quality. There are also additional nice pieces of info we can put into articles (storm track pictures, infoboxes, damage pictures) that wouldn't all fit on the summaries (although having a storm track picture for each summary would probably be better than the text form of the storm history we have now).
My suggestion therefore is that rather than spend more time arguing about it and getting into edit wars, we spend some time simply improving the article (and its sub-articles, including the storm articles but also other sub-articles). During this time new storm articles may be created without a large hastle, with the understand that they'll be deleted later if they turn out not to be useful. The only restriction is that no writing should ever be lost (though it may be moved onto and off of the main article as needed). We set a fixed date - say November 30th, the end of the season - at which time we want to have the work complete. By then we want the main article to be high quality and something that a normal person would find interesting to read. At the end we meet back here and based on what we've learned we can come up with guidelines that can then be used for other (future and past) seasons.
Jdorje 22:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
All we know right now is that the big 6 (Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan and Wilma) shouldn't be touched; they deserve significant mention for notability and their names are likely going to be retired - the first criteria is met there. They most definitely warrant separate article.
From there, we get to the next question mark: historically notable. The only one I can think of that meets that clearly standard is Vince (unlike Faith, Maria was long extratropical when it moved northward - which eliminates that argument). Alpha was a lot like Odette and has some merit for an article, on a mixture of impact and notability. I will admit I waffled on the Alpha article; I really see both arguments and don't have a real position on it. BTW the last Atlantic storm that had an article (or warranted one) for strictly historical purposes was Alberto in 2000 (Odette in 2003 was like Alpha).
Next up, you get to the length of the section on the page. That is where Ophelia was broken away. It was clearly too long (the Ophelia article is 25k) and the significant coastal damage (although numbers are highly variable - anywhere from $50M to $1.5B) make the storm somewhat notable, although it definitely would be a lot more notable in a less-busy season (it is in the shadows of many other storms).
I do not support separate articles on any other storms, though. CrazyC83 04:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
And now we have a Cindy article. We need to stop this sooner rather than later. There is no point for all these articles. Simply send them to the NHC article when they have one for a full storm history. All that should be mentioned is a very brief history and what, if anything, makes it notable. This page should be based more off the 1995 Atlantic hurricane season page; lots of storms but short enough to read it. Sure, some text will be lost, but with proper links, it wouldn't matter. E. Brown, good call on some of the storms, agreed on discretion... Hopefully this will get figured out in the coming days without having an article on every last storm. Hurricanehink 04:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Let's just take a vote on the button bar and get it over with.
Keep it
Get rid of it
I want to know which one of you is using IP sockpuppets to constantly put it back. But hey, you kids have your fun. I've probably gone over my three reverts and I don't care. Report me. In fact, that's what would be required, wouldn't it, since I'm certainly not going to enforce it on myself. (Nor am I allowed to) This is not consensus, it's railroading by someone who had his feelings hurt and is getting other IPs or friends to help him out. -- Golbez 06:35, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I think there's too much ambiguity within "delete", going by the comments under "delete". There should probably be a difference between those who think it is "ugly" but support the functionality and those who disagree with adding the functionality at all. It appears some people interpreted "delete" as including "needs improvement" or "remove pending improvement". If a seperate option had been added for that, it might have attracted a bigger concensus at this stage. It would seem to me that "remove it" really means permanently deleting it off the face of the planet, like a "don't bother working on it" kind of thing, though others might not have read it that way. (Personally, I think the bar would need to be improved in appearance, which is why I voted "support".) I suggest perhaps just working on it until we get a visually appealing bar and a compromise with consensus, since there's obviously no consensus either way right now (as of a 9 - 9 tie) - neither enough to place the bar on the articles nor delete the template. AySz88^ - ^ 00:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
All right, enough already! No more sub pages! We don't want an article on every single storm! That defeats the purpose of the main article. Articles should only be created if the storm is notable. This is getting ridiculous. I was bold and merged Arlene into the main article. I was tempted to do the same for Cindy before it was put up for a vfd. I don't want to become a subpage-Nazi, but if I have to, I will. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 17:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Hell, even that one can get its own article, IMHO. Whats the harm of having another set of stubs on Wikipedia, with a list of links to the storm articles on this page (to reduce the length of the article)? -- tomf688{ talk} 05:23, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Eric, you weren't "bold" in redirecting Arlene to the main article, you were opportunistic. The best thing to solve the Arlene issue was to develop a set standard. We have two standards being thrown out about: length or notability. In some people's minds, an article only is created if it's a length issue. But at the same time, when an article is created because of a length issue (Arlene) the issue suddenly becomes notability. Be consistent, or don't bother squabbling over what gets an article if you can't make up your minds on the requirement for article creation. -- Revolución ( talk) 05:29, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
My only real question for those of you who hate the idea of subpages is this: if you think this information is so unnotable, why do you want it clogging up the main season article? Jdorje 00:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
What if the sub-articles were called 2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Arlene? Jdorje 22:55, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
(There may be some disagreement here because NHC defines a late-season storm as any storm within 3 months of the end of the prior season, thus the Jan. 19, 1978 storm listed as the record for the earliest forming storm may, rather, be one of the latest forming storms since it technically is part of teh 1977 Hurricane season. If one prefers to deal with just a calendar year, this list would be safe; if one prefers the hurricane season definition, it might throw these records off.
From NHC web site:
E16) When did the earliest and latest hurricanes occur?
Contributed by Chris Landsea The hurricane season is defined as June 1 through November 30. An early hurricane can be defined as occurring in the three months prior to the start of the season, and a late hurricane can be defined as occurring in the three months after the season. With these criteria the earliest observed hurricane in the Atlantic was on March 7, 1908, while the latest observed hurricane was on December 31, 1954, the second “Alice” of that year which persisted as a hurricane until January 5, 1955. The earliest hurricane to strike the United States was Alma which struck northwest Florida on June 9, 1966. The latest hurricane to strike the U. S. was late on November 30, 1925 near Tampa, Florida. (Contribution from Blake et al. 2005.)
-- FunguyVA, 03:00, November 12, 2005 (UTC) (moved from article by AySz88^ - ^)
For any of the people involved in the project of adding button bars to all the seasons: can you please go through those seasons and fix those button bars? The current button bars use templates in the talk space, which is no good. Jdorje 08:46, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
What happened to the button bar? All previous versions of it appear vertically on it's template page and I can't figure out how to fix it. -- WolFox ( ★Talk★) Contribs 01:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Erm, I'm not sure what, exactly, this refers to... I see no problems - have they already been fixed? AySz88 03:52, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Image:Columbia SEAS.GIF is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | → | Archive 20 |
The pdf versions are out for Atlantic storms Arlene and Gert. The pdf versions are also out for Eastern Pacific storms Beatriz, Dora, Fernanda, and Lidia. And JTWC still hasn't finished all of their 2004 reports yet! -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 22:49, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
No real surprises from Arlene or Gert. I didn't think Arlene was a hurricane; if anything, I thought she might have been overestimated (after all, the damage was nowhere near what a 70 mph storm would normally produce, especially in Ivan's wake). I'd expect Bret, Harvey, Irene and Jose next...since Cindy is likely in dispute (was she a hurricane?) and they are probably still trying to confirm exact figures for Dennis (although the 150 mph peak seems correct, maybe the other figures weren't?) and Emily (was she Category 5?). CrazyC83 20:25, 17 November 2005 (UTC)
I posted a new pool on the /Betting Pools page based on Cuivienen's point. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 00:37, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Anyone notice that on the reports page, Subtropical Depression 22 is listed as "Tropical Depression Twenty-Two"? Is this just a mistake...? -- RattleMan 17:47, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
a quick idea, i think there should be a template on every hurricane page (katrina, rita, wilma etc) for quick access. The template should have all the major hurricanes of the season on the bottom, with a link to their page. Then, of course, there is a page to the main page. It'll make it a lot easier to naviagate around the hurricanes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.26.91.79 ( talk • contribs) .
How about a button bar? -- Ctrl build talk 15px| 13:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC) Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons
I think the button bar is really cool. It could go at the top and bottom of the main hurricane season page, and on the page of each storm that has its own article. -- TimL 15:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I like it. I would suggest top and bottom of storms section and bottom of the season page and on the pages where storms have own articles. Underline for landfalling and bold for retired or is that going too far? crandles 19:48, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Shall I templateize it now or should I make the button bar specific for each article? Should it be in all Katrina articles? Should It be in the 2005 Hurricane Season Category? --
Ctrl build
talk
20:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
--I will italicize if active, how about that.
its already templatize by {{Talk:2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season/Buttons}} -- see my
user page.
Already Inserted in every article. Jumps up and down like a hyperactive bunny. I hope there are know display issues. It is at the bottom of the articles, It seemed too gaudy for the top. It is at the top of 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season and the bottom. You can see where it links to here [1].
Just a question, does anyone here use a monitor resolution of 800x600? I would think that if they did there would be a horizontal scrollbar because of the button bar (which, BTW, is a very good idea). -- RattleMan 21:38, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
By the way, I ( CrazyC83) just created this:
Talk:2004 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons
Testing now at 800X600. If we have two more storms the buttons are screwy, but currently just miss creating a scroll bar. If it reaches that point I suggest:
--removing the depressions after two more storms
--changing the button width after two more storms
--lowering the text size after two more storms
--
Ctrl build
talk
21:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
See [here
http://www.interminatus.com/800by600buttons.png] for an image of them at 800x600.
Would two rows work? The depressions should not be removed, and reducing the width or text size would make it harder to see. CrazyC83 21:52, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I am not going to do this now, because it would make it look bad, but the spacing between the buttons can be pushed down. I will do an invisible html note in the button bar to explain which variable should be changed in the event of more storms. --
Ctrl build
talk
21:57, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
NEVERMIND -- fixed it but reducing spacing between buttons. Does not look too bad.
That works well. I created another one: Talk:2003 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons CrazyC83 22:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I just tried creating that. oooh Someone else has changed this page since you started editing it. Good thing I checked here. Well...back to work at doing non-wiki work. Yes, that does exist. --
Ctrl build
talk
22:07, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
--
Ctrl build
talk
23:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
That version is also diagonal,but doesn't have blank lines between each link;each link is on the next line and one space over from the previous one.--Louis E./le@put.com/ 12.144.5.2 04:25, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to put the 2003 button bar on the 2003 relevant pages, and I have already put the 2004 button bar on 2004 relevant pages. -- CFIF 23:03, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I just tried bolding the retired storms on the 2004 bar: Talk:2004 Atlantic hurricane season/Buttons What do you think? PenguinCDF 23:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Could the colours be a bit more subtle please? The pure colours are bugging me, it would be nice if they were all a shade darker or something. (e.g. instead of red, you have #cc3333 or something)
Jevon 23:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
like this? --
Ctrl build
talk
23:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
To be honest I really don't see the need for this, one could simply look at what is called "contents" at the beginning and click on which storm they want to read. -- Revolución ( talk) 23:22, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
On the red buttons, it is difficult for me to see the text if the page is marked as visited. Ajm81 23:37, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I like these button bars. When will the ones before 2003 (like 1950-2002) be created? Dralwik 23:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Be bold in updating pages :-) --
Ctrl build
talk
00:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
A list of them all
{{User:Ctrl_build/sandbox}} --
Ctrl build
talk
00:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
does not create a template. Look at the history for 2004 and 2005's seasons to see this glitch in action. --
Ctrl build
talk
I cannot see whether a link is bolded or not. Also - could a legend be handy? S onson 01:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
(Ident = reset) I agree with that. Maybe you would like to make a test for this year's season, and then we modify it? Tito xd( ?!?) 02:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
My personal opinion is that they should not be at the top of the pages but resricted to the bottom. That's just my personal opinion. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 04:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I just tried something out - User:AySz88/Sandbox. Needs to be fleshed out more, and I haven't put things into a template format (How do you sandbox templates?). AySz88^ - ^ 23:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
This does not change:
(See Jimbo's explanation)
I wonder if objections would be satiated if we make POV userboxes an explicitly bias-countering tool by rewording them along these lines (as an example):
See better examples below
If desired, one could extend this to five types by adding these two:
Of course, not all userboxes would have to have the same wording, they would just need to somehow make it clear that the box isn't advocating/advertising the POV, but is expressing a possible bias in encyclopedia-writing.
(Copied from my post at Wikipedia talk:Userboxes#POV Userbox Suggestion. -- AySz88 ^ - ^ 06:28, 16 May 2006 (UTC))
If one has any objections or improvements, feel free to edit or comment here.
Year,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Avg AMO over yr,± 5 year moving average of AMO index,Majors,"Majors, diff from avg",± 5 year moving average of major hurricanes
1856,,0.204,0.137,0.208,0.128,0.18,0.203,0.216,0.193,0.26,0.11,0.121,0.214,0.181166667,,2,, 1857,,0.199,-0.074,-0.089,-0.007,-0.047,0.086,0.117,-0.017,0.005,-0.148,-0.182,-0.297,-0.037833333,,0,, 1858,,-0.235,-0.328,-0.085,0.198,0.076,-0.053,-0.174,-0.085,0.057,0.135,0.261,0.109,-0.010333333,,0,, 1859,,-0.147,-0.135,0.046,0.136,0.074,-0.115,-0.194,0.049,0.067,0.114,0.046,0.068,0.00075,,1,, 1860,,0.101,-0.126,0.047,-0.083,0.155,0.289,0.216,0.026,-0.018,0.096,-0.021,0.128,0.0675,,1,, 1861,,-0.013,-0.123,-0.02,0.234,0.181,0.278,0.4,0.289,0.246,0.201,0.203,0.102,0.164833333,0.03730303,0,, 1862,,-0.041,-0.176,-0.086,-0.139,-0.194,-0.057,-0.307,-0.281,-0.269,-0.278,-0.365,-0.371,-0.213666667,0.032439394,0,, 1863,,-0.16,-0.057,0.014,0.036,0.011,-0.055,-0.307,-0.313,-0.171,-0.247,-0.191,-0.129,-0.13075,0.048606061,0,, 1864,,-0.219,-0.369,-0.195,-0.048,0.059,0.102,0.248,0.335,0.182,0.113,0.174,0.176,0.0465,0.056954545,0,, 1865,,0.175,0.235,0.149,0.045,0.014,0.184,0.106,0.026,0.27,0.236,0.201,0.201,0.1535,0.057325758,0,, 1866,,0.034,0.161,0.196,0.114,0.157,0.334,0.264,0.242,0.13,0.123,0.25,0.259,0.188666667,0.052848485,1,, 1867,,0.295,0.267,0.369,0.279,0.141,0.071,0.09,0.053,-0.015,-0.045,0.096,-0.069,0.127666667,0.045234848,1,, 1868,,0.045,0.114,0.186,0.244,0.17,0.31,0.389,0.187,0.131,-0.13,-0.072,0.106,0.14,0.067916667,0,, 1869,,-0.129,0.075,0.061,0.229,0.266,0.199,0.265,0.119,0.079,-0.022,-0.061,-0.103,0.0815,0.076833333,1,, 1870,,-0.174,-0.007,-0.058,-0.184,-0.045,-0.028,-0.056,0.084,0.134,0.141,0.158,0.093,0.004833333,0.07475,2 1871,,-0.152,-0.134,0.114,0.164,0.127,0.116,0.156,0.042,-0.103,-0.163,-0.019,0.071,0.01825,0.05780303,2 1872,,-0.085,-0.069,-0.101,-0.089,0.161,0.202,0.269,0.369,0.4,0.032,-0.049,-0.067,0.081083333,0.061636364,0 1873,,0.038,-0.011,0.026,0.03,-0.064,-0.054,0.069,0.029,0.13,0.066,0.046,0.125,0.035833333,0.09025,2 1874,,0.036,-0.128,-0.134,-0.105,0,0.148,0.086,-0.028,0.166,-0.055,-0.073,-0.305,-0.032666667,0.088,0 1875,,-0.181,0.052,0.021,0.003,0.149,0.155,-0.011,0.076,0.125,0.057,-0.073,-0.09,0.023583333,0.085371212,1 1876,,-0.219,-0.089,-0.105,-0.084,-0.085,-0.019,0.102,0.161,0.135,-0.068,-0.094,-0.03,-0.032916667,0.08794697,2 1877,,-0.006,0.145,0.228,0.134,0.243,0.312,0.289,0.352,0.252,0.222,0.29,0.309,0.230833333,0.083098485,1 1878,,0.23,0.324,0.335,0.633,0.514,0.617,0.41,0.577,0.538,0.308,0.362,0.461,0.442416667,0.071931818,2 1879,,0.313,0.369,0.009,0.027,0.235,0.166,0.074,0.006,-0.033,0.051,0.058,0.108,0.11525,0.060984848,2 1880,,0.067,-0.006,0.08,-0.048,-0.149,-0.022,0.108,0.091,0.245,0.221,0.138,-0.094,0.052583333,0.060977273,2 1881,,0.16,0.115,0.181,0.212,0.106,0.112,0,0.037,-0.031,-0.078,-0.313,-0.103,0.033166667,0.069280303,0 1882,,-0.139,-0.106,-0.04,-0.135,-0.138,-0.008,0.054,0.062,0.034,-0.022,0.007,0.01,-0.035083333,0.082568182,2 1883,,-0.055,-0.17,-0.159,0.022,0.028,-0.035,-0.049,0.013,-0.096,-0.118,-0.011,0.129,-0.04175,0.078598485,2 1884,,0.028,-0.147,-0.113,-0.066,-0.051,0.134,-0.033,-0.011,-0.153,-0.146,-0.342,-0.115,-0.084583333,0.05569697,1 1885,,-0.067,0.044,-0.034,-0.25,-0.165,-0.131,-0.023,0.115,0.036,0.034,0.013,0.035,-0.03275,0.031401515,1 1886,,0.133,0.129,0.186,0.21,0.237,0.206,0.249,0.067,0.005,-0.015,-0.011,-0.017,0.114916667,0.029121212,4,,,, 1887,,-0.096,-0.083,-0.019,-0.061,0.05,0.225,0.343,0.209,0.162,0.246,0.191,0.192,0.11325,0.017166667,2,,,, 1888,,0.244,0.181,0.266,0.134,0.141,0.264,0.199,0.158,0.161,0.267,0.14,0.091,0.187166667,0.019287879,2,,,, 1889,,0.249,0.256,0.331,0.312,0.313,0.225,0.075,0.094,0.103,0.102,0.176,0.05,0.1905,0.000401515,0,,,, 1890,,0.03,0.014,-0.041,-0.155,-0.147,-0.103,-0.256,-0.302,-0.26,-0.084,-0.272,-0.248,-0.152,-0.001015152,1,,,, 1891,,-0.276,-0.086,0.075,0.111,0.178,0.165,0.243,0.101,0.009,0.027,-0.237,0.02,0.0275,0.01119697,1,,,, 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1928,,-0.036,-0.085,-0.084,-0.089,0.026,0.076,0.095,0.111,0.097,0.052,-0.041,-0.08,0.0035,0.014159091,1,-1.078431373,0.103386809 1929,,-0.078,-0.09,-0.079,-0.005,-0.1,-0.182,-0.169,-0.144,-0.054,-0.043,-0.103,-0.175,-0.101833333,0.043386364,1,-1.078431373,0.012477718 1930,,-0.112,-0.164,-0.084,-0.199,-0.1,-0.069,0.071,0.081,0.299,0.213,0.165,0.154,0.02125,0.059318182,1,-1.078431373,0.103386809 1931,,0.126,0.077,0.16,0.163,0.237,0.281,0.206,0.163,0.275,0.331,0.071,0.184,0.1895,0.087909091,1,-1.078431373,0.1942959 1932,,0.189,0.242,0.259,0.225,0.166,0.256,0.283,0.399,0.349,0.25,0.15,0.108,0.239666667,0.107257576,4,1.921568627,-0.351158645 1933,,0.101,0.169,0.103,0.224,0.304,0.257,0.293,0.294,0.256,0.344,0.093,0.015,0.204416667,0.119575758,5,2.921568627,-0.442067736 1934,,-0.098,-0.177,-0.197,-0.079,-0.099,0.047,0.184,0.093,0.155,0.184,0.031,0.009,0.004416667,0.130363636,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1935,,0.056,-0.121,-0.136,0.068,0.155,0.123,0.077,0.019,-0.023,-0.005,0.034,0.115,0.030166667,0.138189394,3,0.921568627,-0.532976827 1936,,0.151,0.159,0.208,0.21,0.182,0.207,0.209,0.228,0.188,0.118,0.034,0.062,0.163,0.153340909,1,-1.078431373,-0.442067736 1937,,0.069,0.1,0.113,0.084,0.145,0.465,0.625,0.606,0.522,0.312,0.271,0.369,0.30675,0.154060606,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1938,,0.226,0.167,0.214,0.253,0.218,0.183,0.22,0.313,0.323,0.37,0.334,0.233,0.2545,0.136568182,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1939,,0.15,0.094,-0.017,0.109,0.121,0.192,0.341,0.338,0.315,0.025,-0.138,-0.064,0.122166667,0.151045455,1,-1.078431373,-0.8057041 1940,,0.078,-0.178,-0.128,-0.016,0.018,0.03,0.112,0.122,0.041,-0.032,-0.115,-0.121,-0.01575,0.171984848,0,-2.078431373,-0.532976827 1941,,-0.045,0.111,0.148,0.081,0.054,-0.002,0.105,0.295,0.321,0.433,0.41,0.344,0.187916667,0.17230303,2,-0.078431373,-0.714795009 1942,,0.152,0.215,0.209,0.222,0.227,0.277,0.118,0.163,0.241,0.221,0.214,0.11,0.197416667,0.151098485,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1943,,0.148,0.114,-0.085,-0.118,-0.105,-0.058,0.034,0.035,0.095,0.099,0.161,0.247,0.04725,0.125734848,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1944,,0.32,0.337,0.442,0.334,0.311,0.367,0.381,0.463,0.437,0.386,0.292,0.294,0.363666667,0.112340909,3,0.921568627,-0.078431373 1945,,0.28,0.369,0.385,0.432,0.33,0.195,0.105,0.128,0.106,0.123,0.205,0.159,0.23475,0.101848485,3,0.921568627,0.557932264 1946,,0.298,0.212,0.152,0.083,0.111,-0.079,-0.184,-0.143,0.004,0.006,-0.043,-0.013,0.033666667,0.123159091,1,-1.078431373,1.012477718 1947,,-0.152,-0.105,-0.069,-0.074,-0.132,-0.13,-0.134,-0.077,-0.028,-0.068,0.07,0.056,-0.07025,0.134310606,2,-0.078431373,1.103386809 1948,,0.008,-0.005,0.051,-0.047,0.019,0.078,-0.016,0,-0.029,0.031,0.157,0.086,0.02775,0.141833333,4,1.921568627,1.376114082 1949,,0.176,0.184,0.062,0.122,0,0.025,0.095,0.126,0.094,0.128,0.132,0.142,0.107166667,0.142916667,3,0.921568627,1.376114082 1950,,0.135,-0.01,-0.081,-0.106,-0.035,-0.019,-0.031,0.044,0.034,-0.066,0.104,0.112,0.00675,0.128871212,8,5.921568627,1.648841355 1951,,0.127,0.023,0.037,0.193,0.197,0.314,0.447,0.329,0.274,0.284,0.199,0.2,0.218666667,0.107310606,5,2.921568627,1.557932264 1952,,0.197,0.208,0.256,0.216,0.206,0.409,0.397,0.429,0.387,0.38,0.276,0.366,0.310583333,0.109492424,3,0.921568627,1.648841355 1953,,0.291,0.21,0.167,0.339,0.368,0.301,0.369,0.284,0.305,0.174,0.27,0.284,0.280166667,0.136962121,4,1.921568627,1.921568627 1954,,0.253,0.121,0.127,0.012,0.095,0.125,-0.019,0.011,0.015,-0.005,0,-0.025,0.059166667,0.140833333,2,-0.078431373,1.739750446 1955,,0.102,0.067,0.067,0.122,0.203,0.22,0.295,0.202,0.23,0.306,0.413,0.283,0.209166667,0.154136364,6,3.921568627,1.648841355 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1963,,0.187,0.196,0.163,0.134,-0.055,-0.017,-0.006,-0.043,-0.172,-0.041,-0.027,-0.03,0.024083333,0.033992424,2,-0.078431373,0.648841355 1964,,-0.045,0.051,0.069,-0.116,0.071,0.034,-0.114,-0.204,-0.19,-0.241,-0.136,-0.091,-0.076,0.015719697,6,3.921568627,0.648841355 1965,,-0.168,-0.147,-0.048,-0.066,-0.068,-0.096,-0.158,-0.179,-0.191,-0.217,-0.245,-0.093,-0.139666667,0.001939394,1,-1.078431373,0.648841355 1966,,-0.046,0.041,0.021,0.075,0.033,-0.014,-0.025,-0.013,0.031,0.044,0.034,0.111,0.024333333,-0.047522727,3,0.921568627,0.557932264 1967,,0.112,0.119,-0.002,0.016,-0.155,-0.23,-0.199,-0.133,-0.066,-0.068,-0.203,-0.122,-0.077583333,-0.088431818,1,-1.078431373,-0.078431373 1968,,-0.215,-0.167,-0.177,-0.123,-0.092,-0.231,-0.198,-0.181,-0.118,-0.081,-0.076,-0.095,-0.146166667,-0.114356061,0,-2.078431373,-0.078431373 1969,,-0.031,0.136,0.24,0.181,0.044,0.061,0.126,-0.069,-0.074,-0.153,-0.091,0.001,0.030916667,-0.152825758,5,2.921568627,-0.078431373 1970,,0.023,-0.016,0.052,0.053,-0.013,-0.149,-0.167,-0.108,-0.104,-0.163,-0.207,-0.176,-0.08125,-0.171083333,2,-0.078431373,-0.351158645 1971,,-0.213,-0.259,-0.277,-0.379,-0.293,-0.33,-0.315,-0.402,-0.333,-0.202,-0.209,-0.275,-0.290583333,-0.189454545,1,-1.078431373,-0.260249554 1972,,-0.284,-0.346,-0.405,-0.292,-0.435,-0.454,-0.34,-0.349,-0.268,-0.252,-0.242,-0.316,-0.331916667,-0.206840909,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1973,,-0.339,-0.359,-0.309,-0.229,-0.134,-0.14,-0.068,-0.098,-0.096,-0.18,-0.174,-0.203,-0.194083333,-0.214037879,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1974,,-0.241,-0.249,-0.366,-0.488,-0.464,-0.412,-0.479,-0.432,-0.47,-0.472,-0.39,-0.326,-0.399083333,-0.208628788,2,-0.078431373,-0.169340463 1975,,-0.236,-0.303,-0.274,-0.309,-0.351,-0.259,-0.235,-0.149,-0.3,-0.317,-0.304,-0.285,-0.276833333,-0.21094697,3,0.921568627,-0.442067736 1976,,-0.348,-0.405,-0.457,-0.39,-0.452,-0.447,-0.271,-0.148,-0.155,-0.256,-0.378,-0.394,-0.34175,-0.208318182,2,-0.078431373,-0.351158645 1977,,-0.352,-0.296,-0.146,-0.18,-0.132,-0.07,-0.068,-0.107,-0.194,-0.186,-0.105,-0.167,-0.166916667,-0.198931818,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1978,,-0.068,-0.109,-0.12,-0.156,-0.165,-0.294,-0.238,-0.188,-0.151,-0.168,-0.08,-0.144,-0.15675,-0.172901515,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1979,,-0.153,-0.111,-0.189,-0.198,-0.078,-0.002,-0.054,-0.075,-0.069,-0.047,-0.045,-0.019,-0.086666667,-0.171757576,2,-0.078431373,-0.260249554 1980,,0.039,-0.038,-0.098,0.04,0.17,0.149,0.091,0.064,0.033,-0.021,-0.156,-0.208,0.005416667,-0.157234848,2,-0.078431373,-0.169340463 1981,,-0.135,-0.135,0.047,-0.05,-0.038,-0.016,-0.048,-0.069,0.01,-0.14,-0.089,0.035,-0.052333333,-0.154371212,3,0.921568627,-0.442067736 1982,,-0.037,-0.035,-0.036,-0.134,-0.152,-0.138,-0.181,-0.26,-0.257,-0.313,-0.369,-0.336,-0.187333333,-0.114962121,1,-1.078431373,-0.532976827 1983,,-0.253,-0.061,0.125,0.109,0.002,-0.008,0.036,-0.111,-0.169,-0.149,-0.112,0.044,-0.045583333,-0.097462121,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1984,,-0.057,-0.039,-0.078,-0.108,-0.123,-0.28,-0.224,-0.183,-0.161,-0.285,-0.372,-0.268,-0.1815,-0.087939394,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1985,,-0.306,-0.281,-0.31,-0.352,-0.292,-0.077,-0.103,-0.227,-0.196,-0.198,-0.246,-0.284,-0.239333333,-0.080484848,3,0.921568627,-0.442067736 1986,,-0.292,-0.227,-0.242,-0.269,-0.183,-0.206,-0.195,-0.22,-0.165,-0.269,-0.35,-0.326,-0.245333333,-0.090136364,0,-2.078431373,-0.442067736 1987,,-0.232,-0.171,0.012,0.075,0.101,0.244,0.327,0.329,0.247,0.1,-0.022,0.091,0.09175,-0.102590909,1,-1.078431373,-0.623885918 1988,,0.007,-0.065,0.038,0.103,0.185,0.217,0.17,0.046,-0.04,-0.12,-0.109,-0.125,0.025583333,-0.101840909,3,0.921568627,-0.623885918 1989,,-0.18,-0.112,-0.202,-0.23,-0.099,0.135,0.225,0.163,-0.041,-0.075,-0.101,-0.107,-0.052,-0.110265152,2,-0.078431373,-0.714795009 1990,,-0.25,-0.111,-0.126,-0.059,-0.012,-0.008,0.029,0.099,0.197,0.167,0.001,0.017,-0.004666667,-0.078265152,1,-1.078431373,-0.351158645 1991,,-0.142,-0.067,-0.019,-0.078,-0.112,-0.089,-0.063,-0.058,0.01,-0.209,-0.21,-0.172,-0.10075,-0.058704545,2,-0.078431373,-0.078431373 1992,,-0.147,-0.053,-0.05,-0.138,-0.184,-0.104,-0.172,-0.331,-0.319,-0.247,-0.286,-0.241,-0.189333333,-0.028469697,1,-1.078431373,0.012477718 1993,,-0.198,-0.143,-0.203,-0.127,-0.123,-0.131,-0.232,-0.181,-0.113,-0.188,-0.266,-0.244,-0.179083333,0.000628788,1,-1.078431373,0.1942959 1994,,-0.243,-0.259,-0.23,-0.146,-0.157,-0.173,-0.179,-0.178,-0.088,0.006,0.034,-0.046,-0.13825,0.013113636,0,-2.078431373,0.376114082 1995,,-0.016,0.013,0.071,0.127,0.315,0.418,0.366,0.237,0.109,0.151,0.17,0.085,0.1705,0.024189394,5,2.921568627,0.467023173 1996,,0.036,0.015,-0.012,0.057,-0.019,-0.077,-0.059,0.043,0.051,-0.097,-0.126,-0.102,-0.024166667,0.039613636,6,3.921568627,0.739750446 1997,,-0.037,0.016,0.055,0.055,0.083,0.062,0.116,0.068,0.157,0.198,0.095,0.179,0.08725,0.058742424,1,-1.078431373,0.739750446 1998,,0.181,0.342,0.372,0.346,0.427,0.54,0.543,0.571,0.472,0.441,0.376,0.331,0.411833333,0.101022727,3,0.921568627,0.921568627,, 1999,,0.103,0.108,0.122,0.109,0.219,0.245,0.259,0.37,0.249,0.084,0.016,0.071,0.162916667,0.140037879,5,2.921568627,1.376114082,, 2000,,-0.031,0.012,0.154,0.1,0.159,0.038,0.129,0.159,0.16,0.018,0.008,-0.068,0.069833333,0.183181818,3,0.921568627,2.012477718,, 2001,,-0.067,0.031,0.077,0.049,0.041,0.253,0.196,0.241,0.355,0.321,0.217,0.266,0.165,0.196739669,4,1.921568627,1.739750446,, 2002,,0.232,0.221,0.203,0.086,0.007,-0.059,-0.002,0.169,0.145,0.175,0.079,0.06,0.109666667,,2,-0.078431373,,, 2003,,0.107,0.039,0.161,0.13,0.209,0.266,0.346,0.484,0.514,0.487,0.283,0.283,0.27575,,3,0.921568627,,, 2004,,0.266,0.264,0.212,0.167,0.053,0.233,0.29,0.377,0.299,0.304,0.288,0.248,0.250083333,,6,3.921568627,,, 2005,,0.171,0.18,0.339,0.352,0.347,0.384,0.513,0.503,0.482,0.298,0.194,0.273,0.336333333,,7,4.921568627,,, 2006,,0.179,0.127,0.113,0.256,0.364,0.395,0.441,0.473,0.431,0.397,0.34,,0.319636364,,2,-0.078431373,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Average Majors, 1900 to 2001",2.078431373,,,,
/T3: Talk:2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 13/T3
The buttonbar at the top of the season page is hideous. There is a table of contents. There are DOZENS of links to the major storms in the article. People don't need their hands held THAT much. Furthermore, I'm starting to resent the attitudes of some editors here. Someone put it in saying, quote, "(It has become the standard that due to the length of the hurricane season articles, you put it in twice, storm articles only have it once at the bottom. It is for convienence's sake.)" I'm sorry, I wasn't aware standards were drafted, argued, and instituted in the space of 12 hours. If I missed that memo, please enlighten me. Back to my main point: It's hideous, and we don't need YET ANOTHER link to the 23 storms in this article. It MIGHT be useful - I won't say yes or no yet - on the storm articles, but it's horrible here. How many times do you have to give people links to the storms? Furthermore, it puts too much reliance on the designations. Its only use that I can see is as a graphical indicator of the season's strength - seeing the intensities in order and such. I don't see myself or anyone else ever using this thing for navigation - especially on the season page, where we already have a table of contents! Why, on Hurricane Dennis, would I think, "Hm, let's learn about Tammy" and click T, which takes me, well, here. Then I go back? To learn about another storm? Why not just stay where I am? Again - Do we really think our readers are so stupid we have to give them eighteen different and sometimes horribly formatted opportunities to learn about a vaguely relevant storm? If they want to find out what other storms were notable in a season, and they're on the Dennis page, they can bloody go to the season page, giving them a bar with a link to "K" does them nothing. Was K notable? Should they be expected to click through these to find useful articles? -- Golbez 08:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
The template {{2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season_buttons}} has been completed. It uses all of the higher level templates noted.
I'm not a particular fan of the button bar, but PLEASE remove it from the top of the season page. It's really ugly to see that as the first thing, especially as I can't recall another Wikipedia page that has a menu bar at the top like that. TOC exists for a reason. --
Goobergunch|
?
16:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I think that the button bar is ugly as sin (no offense intended, just my opinion). It is completely redundant to the table of contents. The article is very easy to navigate without it. There is only one section between the storms and the TOC, anyway. It makes the page less accessible for people using screen readers and other assistive technologies. On a related note, the infobox at the top right and the season summary are basically redundant. There is too much junk here; we need to make the article more efficient and get it to a more desirable length. Stuff like "early expectations were blah blah, and these have been born out..." just needs to go. Let the facts speak for themselves. All of the blurbage about records puts the season in perspective already. There is just too much here. -- Mm35173 17:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
<--
RESTORING DELETED COMMENT
If you hover over the color part now, you get more information about each stom, especially for the 22nd and 23rd, and this can be expanded. --
Ctrl build
talk
03:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
This looks better... I'm not as opposed to it just being at the bottom; the bottom of the page is not as cluttered as the top. Could you shrink it so that it doesn't cross the whole page? -- Mm35173 16:44, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, I am going to add on some of my problems with the bar. The hover over the letter to see which storm it is is nice, but it doesn't work for all of the storms. Fix it so that when you hover over "L", it says Tropical Storm Lee rather than 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, same with Alpha so it says Tropical Storm Alpha rather than Tropical Storm Alpha (2005). Next thing, get rid of the colors, no one knows what the colors mean other than the regular contributors to this article. Also, I just don't think it is necessary on the main page at all, the storms are already linked to their own articles at least four times already. -- Holderca1 19:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I like the button bar, if nothing else it's colorful. It should be added to the Pacific hurricane season pages too. I'd code it but I'm on the road and in the air this week and it's late here in the US Midwest. To bad we can't do something like this for the Pacific typhoon page where the storms don't follow the alphabet. -- SkyWayMan 05:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Several of you have taken the button bar and put it onto every hurricane since 1990. The problem is you've used a template in the talk space. This cannot remain like this. You guys need to go through and move every one of them over and fix every article. (In other news, I think the new buttonbars look a lot better and are pretty usable.) Jdorje 01:32, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
In light of the recent discussions and the large amount of time deliberating over whether certain articles are warranted or not, I believe that we need to come up with some form of standard for when a storm warrants a seperate article or not. The old way of when the section in the main article has too much info in it has several problems with it. First it will bias those storms affecting the U.S. due to the larger amount of media attention the U.S. media give to U.S. storms. The second being the large amount of gray area and the ensuing discussions on those articles. So I am creating this poll to see what everyone's opinion is and hopefully we can come to some type of concensus. Just vote under whichever section you feel it should be. -- Holderca1 06:49, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
All landfalling storms get their own article, fishspinners do not:
All landfalling hurricanes get their own article, all others do not:
All landfalling hurricanes and only deadly tropical storms get their own article, all others do not:
All storms causing fatalites get their own article, all others do not:
Only storms whose names are retired get their own article, all others do not:
Keep it the way it has been done in the past:
Comments:
What's a deadly storm? One that kills *anyone*? Well over half of the storms cause at least one death I believe. And what about indirect deaths? In my opinion we need to have exact criteria: either (1) only retired names or (2) all storms. The latter isn't as bad as it sounds since if *all* storms had separate articles ( Hurricane Maria (2005)) we could trim the main article way down...and we could add track maps and other pictures for each storm that wouldn't fit in the main article. Jdorje 07:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Last year, articles were made for Charley, Frances, Jeanne, and Ivan - the ones that got retired, and obviously the most notable of the season. This year we have more iffy ones - Ophelia and Alpha, to be specific. Frankly, Ophelia needs to be killed, and Alpha, well, time will tell. But my general feeling is, only when the article outgrows the season page, or is very obviously going to be a major event, do we give it its own article. Ophelia fits neither criteria. -- Golbez 09:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Yep, Ophelia and Alpha definitely need to be weeded out. So does Vince, which is remarkable only in formation and landfall location. Beta's separate article is still premature. B.Wind 10:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I appreciate the purpose of the poll, but this is instruction creep. I know that the editors here have longstanding ways of doing things, but remember, Wikipedia is a wiki, and is not a democracy. -- Mm35173 14:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Just curious, since these are (usually) extremely rare storms (there have only been 28 storms that have reached that intensity), should a Category 5 fish-spinner have its own article in the future? (It has only happened three times and we have little information for any of the three past such storms) CrazyC83 16:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
The main article is 2005 Atlantic hurricane season. This is the article from which all the others spring off of.
Now, sometimes, these storms are notable in themselves - Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan, Wilma.
Sometimes, however, they are notable because of a quirk of history, that they were the first ever known to be something. Vince, Alpha.
And then we have the fishspinners, or the storms that caused minor damage. Arlene, Franklin, Harvey, to name a few.
Now, I don't think anyone disagrees with giving the inherently notable storms articles. They aren't children of the 2005 season article - they are articles in themselves, storms individually so notable that the season is almost irrelevant.
So then we have the remainder. There are two classes of storms here - the ones that warrant enough information on this article to get their own article, because it has outgrown this one, for formatting, readability, or comprehensiveness; and those which were so boring that they rightly consume no more than a handful of paragraphs.
So, now that I've established my premise, let's go over that list again: Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan, and Wilma. Each one of these is not only inherently notable, but easily outgrew the article; the Katrina article and its children are longer than the season article.
So then we have the ones that don't instantly reckon an article. The first criteria to look for is: Does the available information we have outgrow this article? Looking at the article, I see:
That's just my take on how the season article and its various children are working out. In related news, the Monthly Summary comes out early tomorrow, and that will have updated damage, death, and intensity estimates for the October storms. Let's see if we can glean any information from it. -- Golbez 20:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
My basic take on this is that the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season article is way too long. Our goal should be to make it into something that a regular person could read through from start to finish, using summaries where necessary to condense text that would otherwise be too long. A related problem is that the text is too "dense" in many places - people don't want to read the exact wind speed or pressure of every hurricane or the distance from some unknown island where it formed; if that's the kind of information we want to present we should do it via a picture of some kind rather than via text.
As storms go, I think each storm should have a two-paragraph summary - Katrina is a good example; as the the most notable storm it now has two long paragraphs for its summary (about 15 lines in total). However this is a problem because Arlene, Bret, Cindy, Irene and possibly others have summaries that are (by my standards) too long...and I don't want to condense them since without a "main article" for these storms that will mean some writing is lost.
So. I have no problem with adding more articles, *if* they have more info than the summary. If we make the summaries smaller, then we can have more short articles that expand on the summaries. The article doesn't have to be that lengthy so long as it is high-quality. There are also additional nice pieces of info we can put into articles (storm track pictures, infoboxes, damage pictures) that wouldn't all fit on the summaries (although having a storm track picture for each summary would probably be better than the text form of the storm history we have now).
My suggestion therefore is that rather than spend more time arguing about it and getting into edit wars, we spend some time simply improving the article (and its sub-articles, including the storm articles but also other sub-articles). During this time new storm articles may be created without a large hastle, with the understand that they'll be deleted later if they turn out not to be useful. The only restriction is that no writing should ever be lost (though it may be moved onto and off of the main article as needed). We set a fixed date - say November 30th, the end of the season - at which time we want to have the work complete. By then we want the main article to be high quality and something that a normal person would find interesting to read. At the end we meet back here and based on what we've learned we can come up with guidelines that can then be used for other (future and past) seasons.
Jdorje 22:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
All we know right now is that the big 6 (Dennis, Emily, Katrina, Rita, Stan and Wilma) shouldn't be touched; they deserve significant mention for notability and their names are likely going to be retired - the first criteria is met there. They most definitely warrant separate article.
From there, we get to the next question mark: historically notable. The only one I can think of that meets that clearly standard is Vince (unlike Faith, Maria was long extratropical when it moved northward - which eliminates that argument). Alpha was a lot like Odette and has some merit for an article, on a mixture of impact and notability. I will admit I waffled on the Alpha article; I really see both arguments and don't have a real position on it. BTW the last Atlantic storm that had an article (or warranted one) for strictly historical purposes was Alberto in 2000 (Odette in 2003 was like Alpha).
Next up, you get to the length of the section on the page. That is where Ophelia was broken away. It was clearly too long (the Ophelia article is 25k) and the significant coastal damage (although numbers are highly variable - anywhere from $50M to $1.5B) make the storm somewhat notable, although it definitely would be a lot more notable in a less-busy season (it is in the shadows of many other storms).
I do not support separate articles on any other storms, though. CrazyC83 04:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
And now we have a Cindy article. We need to stop this sooner rather than later. There is no point for all these articles. Simply send them to the NHC article when they have one for a full storm history. All that should be mentioned is a very brief history and what, if anything, makes it notable. This page should be based more off the 1995 Atlantic hurricane season page; lots of storms but short enough to read it. Sure, some text will be lost, but with proper links, it wouldn't matter. E. Brown, good call on some of the storms, agreed on discretion... Hopefully this will get figured out in the coming days without having an article on every last storm. Hurricanehink 04:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Let's just take a vote on the button bar and get it over with.
Keep it
Get rid of it
I want to know which one of you is using IP sockpuppets to constantly put it back. But hey, you kids have your fun. I've probably gone over my three reverts and I don't care. Report me. In fact, that's what would be required, wouldn't it, since I'm certainly not going to enforce it on myself. (Nor am I allowed to) This is not consensus, it's railroading by someone who had his feelings hurt and is getting other IPs or friends to help him out. -- Golbez 06:35, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I think there's too much ambiguity within "delete", going by the comments under "delete". There should probably be a difference between those who think it is "ugly" but support the functionality and those who disagree with adding the functionality at all. It appears some people interpreted "delete" as including "needs improvement" or "remove pending improvement". If a seperate option had been added for that, it might have attracted a bigger concensus at this stage. It would seem to me that "remove it" really means permanently deleting it off the face of the planet, like a "don't bother working on it" kind of thing, though others might not have read it that way. (Personally, I think the bar would need to be improved in appearance, which is why I voted "support".) I suggest perhaps just working on it until we get a visually appealing bar and a compromise with consensus, since there's obviously no consensus either way right now (as of a 9 - 9 tie) - neither enough to place the bar on the articles nor delete the template. AySz88^ - ^ 00:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
All right, enough already! No more sub pages! We don't want an article on every single storm! That defeats the purpose of the main article. Articles should only be created if the storm is notable. This is getting ridiculous. I was bold and merged Arlene into the main article. I was tempted to do the same for Cindy before it was put up for a vfd. I don't want to become a subpage-Nazi, but if I have to, I will. -- Hurricane Eric - my dropsonde - archive 17:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Hell, even that one can get its own article, IMHO. Whats the harm of having another set of stubs on Wikipedia, with a list of links to the storm articles on this page (to reduce the length of the article)? -- tomf688{ talk} 05:23, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
Eric, you weren't "bold" in redirecting Arlene to the main article, you were opportunistic. The best thing to solve the Arlene issue was to develop a set standard. We have two standards being thrown out about: length or notability. In some people's minds, an article only is created if it's a length issue. But at the same time, when an article is created because of a length issue (Arlene) the issue suddenly becomes notability. Be consistent, or don't bother squabbling over what gets an article if you can't make up your minds on the requirement for article creation. -- Revolución ( talk) 05:29, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
My only real question for those of you who hate the idea of subpages is this: if you think this information is so unnotable, why do you want it clogging up the main season article? Jdorje 00:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
What if the sub-articles were called 2005 Atlantic hurricane season/Arlene? Jdorje 22:55, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
(There may be some disagreement here because NHC defines a late-season storm as any storm within 3 months of the end of the prior season, thus the Jan. 19, 1978 storm listed as the record for the earliest forming storm may, rather, be one of the latest forming storms since it technically is part of teh 1977 Hurricane season. If one prefers to deal with just a calendar year, this list would be safe; if one prefers the hurricane season definition, it might throw these records off.
From NHC web site:
E16) When did the earliest and latest hurricanes occur?
Contributed by Chris Landsea The hurricane season is defined as June 1 through November 30. An early hurricane can be defined as occurring in the three months prior to the start of the season, and a late hurricane can be defined as occurring in the three months after the season. With these criteria the earliest observed hurricane in the Atlantic was on March 7, 1908, while the latest observed hurricane was on December 31, 1954, the second “Alice” of that year which persisted as a hurricane until January 5, 1955. The earliest hurricane to strike the United States was Alma which struck northwest Florida on June 9, 1966. The latest hurricane to strike the U. S. was late on November 30, 1925 near Tampa, Florida. (Contribution from Blake et al. 2005.)
-- FunguyVA, 03:00, November 12, 2005 (UTC) (moved from article by AySz88^ - ^)
For any of the people involved in the project of adding button bars to all the seasons: can you please go through those seasons and fix those button bars? The current button bars use templates in the talk space, which is no good. Jdorje 08:46, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
What happened to the button bar? All previous versions of it appear vertically on it's template page and I can't figure out how to fix it. -- WolFox ( ★Talk★) Contribs 01:49, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Erm, I'm not sure what, exactly, this refers to... I see no problems - have they already been fixed? AySz88 03:52, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Image:Columbia SEAS.GIF is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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